Don’t accept failure…

That's it in a nutshell. Thanks for posting, Clatsop. Huuuuuge upvote!

LOL

Henri de Saint Simon. Predated Marx/Engels by about thirty years or so. Henri's Socialism should be the modern socialism, not that Marx/Engels bullshit. I did a few memes about him.

Very well put.

Having police protect you is socialism. Your move

Social contract and Socialism are two different things...you never moved. You just stated the same tired comparisons that people, usually libertarians new to thinking, use to justify calling something, "socialism". Every civilized society is the result of a social contract, which usually incorporates protection into the mix. There are many types of social contracts, socialism being one.

Well it depends on the degree of it.
Complete government control of the economy is generally disgusting and leads to violations of civil rights across the board.
Some "socialist" policies, that is, programs funded by the government, such as law enforcement, fire prevention, water and electricity, education, and, in a multitude of nations, postsecondary education and healthcare, have all proven to be effective at improving people's quality of life without sacrificing their liberties.

And you don't have a single socialist politician, so you're fine.

That's state socialism, which is cringe

Libertarian Socialism is the good version, it's basically capitalism but basic living and healthcare is offered

Libertarian and socialism are complete opposites. You can't put them together.

are-are you f**king serios? you where talking about facism which is a problem, but socialism is just the way of the future and you dumb mofos have to understand i will not accept that people get treated THIS UNFAIRLY BECAUSE THEY WHERE NOT BORN RICH

“Author unknown” = you made that shit up

Socialism is 100% an American thing.

How do you think those roads got built?

How about those world leading universities? How do you think they get funded?

And those military forces?

What about that trip to the Moon?

How about that education system that used to be the envy of the world before the GOP decided to destroy it?

The post office?

Socialism is totally America's bag. The Republicans have brainwashed you into thinking you're better off on your own.

That is what socialists always say. That is fragments of socialism NOT full socialism. AND all of that could have been accomplished by the free market at a much lower cost and the costs would targeted only to those who benefited from those charges.

Wealth redistribution, loss of all private property rights, rights taken by the government, loss of freedom, control of all private businesses, exorbitant taxation, replacing God with the state, massive government and eugenics.... THAT is socialism and THAT was never a part of America nor should it ever be.

Socialism creates income inequality, it causes massive and miserable poverty, it treats the individual as expendables that can be eliminated if that individual is deemed unfit to the collective.

They're gonna replace God! They're taking our rights!!! TAXES!!!! Free market could have blah blah blah.

That's what indoctrinated capitalists say.

Do you really think that you'd be able to drive across the country on well-maintained roads without having to pay for every mile? Can you imagine the costs of goods if they had to include all of the tolls to go from the ports to where you live?

If socialism is so so so horrible, how come the scandanavian countries are rocking it?

Name one Scandinavian country that is socialist?

There was a country just south of the Scandinavian countries that tried socialism in the late 1920's to the mid 1940's but their leader was either killed our fled the country when the allied forces invaded Nazi Germany and liberated them from National Socialism.

There was another country just to the east of Finland that took up a huge section of Asia that went socialist in 1917 and stayed that way until about 1988 or 89. They murdered around 25 million of their own people just because.

I know it is real popular for people to think that the Scandinavian countries are socialist but the fact is they are not. They are more socialist than we are but the are not socialist. Sweden tried being socialist but it just about destroyed their nation. They did something no socialist regime has ever done. The pulled back on the socialism. They took a more market based approach to their economy and they are doing better now. Not great but better.

Denmark's taxes are through the roof and they have one of the highest suicide rates in Europe. To buy a car in Denmark you have to 3 times more than you would for the same car in the United States. The car still costs the same but it is the taxes that make it cost 3 times more.

I am not "indoctrinated". I am educated. Plus I have a brain and I am not afraid to use it.

No where and at no time on earth has mankind prospered more than in the United States of America. It isn't the land. It isn't the people. We are no better than any other place except for two things. This nation was founded on principles. Principles that are not unique to the United States but they are principles that only the United States ever put in practice.

Those principles revolve around two essential principles, freedom of the individual and morality. Without one or both there is neither. You cannot be free without morality and you cannot be moral without freedom and you cannot prosper, as a nation or as an individual, without both.

Socialism robs the individual of both. In addition it seeks to make everyone equal. If you don't use your brain you might think that is a good thing but it is disastrous. When you make everyone equal in economic status you take away all incentive to improve your life or the lives of others. Take that away and it has a negative effect on the economy which leads directly to abject poverty for all except the ruling elites. Everyone is equally impoverished.

OOooh, I see what you're doing. YOu're making a bad faith argument conflate communism and socialism. Blaming all sorts of ills on communism, and then saying "ooooo, evil socialism! It's gonna eat your babies! It's gonna make you pay taxes! oooooo"

Yeah. We're done.

Have fun with your bad faith arguments.

Not to mention those goods are heavily subsidized as well, from extraction or farming to production and distribution costs - including when the goverment entices companies to move manufacturing oversees and then helps with costs to ship their products here for sale because hiring Chinese is sooooooo much more cost efficient than hiring Americans.

We pay HALF what we should for gas because it's sold at below market rates thanks to subsidies (and the dolts are whining about it!), and we're fat because of the same for agriculture (and they whine about their expanding girdles too!). As a remedy for the Great Depression which apparently is still ongoing, farmers essentially live off welfare, and that goes for mega farms owned by big corporations that each reap millions off the system just to throw 40% of their produce away because it isn't aesthetically pleasing enough.

The 5% richest people in the USA don't pay taxes, even those whose holdings are more fiction than real like Trump.

When Tha Boss Springsteen and Bon Jovi and the rest of them superstars aren't touring or haven't released an album that year, they get rebates on their taxes because we just have to maintain their lavish lifestyles. Movie companies make a certain amount of duds intentionally, because the losses incurred lowers their tax brackets.

Then there's the plethora of Red State former nuclear scientists for the Military who are now CEOs for their wives' webcam 'barn' business that bless us with their commentary here on the ills of welfare they don't get because they got so much extra free time while sitting on the crapper or eating their tax-deductible lunches to meme the day away. Yeah, they don't live off the system at all, despite their mouths' sutured to Blue State teats like it was a gov't run treatment facility for Percoset and Oxicodon addicted bored suburban youth.

I can't find anything in this statement I agree with.

Automation is the future, socialism never works in the automation world https://www.businessinsider.com/labor-shortage-automation-restaurants-hiring-employment-productivity-job-market-outlook-2021-7?amp

Automation has been going on for some time. Automated cashiers have been with us for some time already.

It has nothing to do with workers demanding more pay.

Think about banks. Back in the day, going to the bank was a deal. You had to wait in long lines to talk to a cashier to even withdraw money. But if you needed to get cash money, would you go into a bank now?

No. You'd go to an ATM. There are banks now that don't have physical buildings.

Turbotax and all those book keeping software services? That's killing the accounting industry. Robots destroyed the car manufacturing industry in the 70's. Banking is already dead.

Businesses will replace workers with machines as soon as they can. Machines don't take vacation. They don't get sick. And if they break, they can be replaced quickly.

I work in the copywriting industry for technology companies. They're developing AI that can churn out technical works right now. My son's won't be able to get a job like mine, because software will be able to do it.

Very soon we're going to have to figure out what to do with all the people being displaced by technology at a scale we've never had to deal with before.

And capitalism isn't the answer. Because that's just us making shit and selling it to each other on etsy.

capitalism is the best it's my not job to babysit people that I'll don't know. screw them it's my money I do f I want to I am sick these socialists tell me what I'll do screw them

And that is why capitalism sucks.

cry me a river capitalism is the best capitalism is the best capitalism is the best capitalism is the best capitalism is the best capitalism made the plane, internet, car, basketball, traffic light, etc, not socialism. Socialism holds people back

I can't find anything in this statement I disagree with.

[image deleted] Why doesn't anybody understand that socialism isn't a form of government. It's an aspect of it, like capitalism. Socialism and capitalism are actually two components in a healthy democracy.

uhmmm, yeah buddy. You want a living wage, do like I did. Get an education, bust your back doing so, and you get yourself the skills to land a job that pays more than you need for the living.

I've already done that. You are missing the point. It's a complex issue, I don't expect you to understand.

my post was in regards to "you paid me a living wage, we would not need government assistance" I was within the context. The complex issue is that people has the expectation that the business employing the individual is responsible for that individual earning a living wage. That is false, the business is responsible for earning profits not for their employees making a living wage. The moment the business stops making profit it dies. Only the individual is responsible for earning a living wage by learning new skills and remain marketable. This is the complex part that people can't understand.

I believe that, in this case, "living wage" would be enough to have a basic apartment with water, climate control, and electricity, as well as enough for basic food, after working a 9-5 job. That's what I'd refer to as a living wage. It's enough to survive. Not enough to buy a brand new car, or purchase a bunch of land. Enough to get food, water, sleep, and preferably education.

If you're regularly at work for 8 hours in a 24-hour period, and actually put effort in, that should be enough to at least take care of the basic necessities of functioning in society.

Any more than that, and, yes, I absolutely agree, people should have to work harder for that. But minimum wage should at least cover staying alive.

So you don't think that uneducated people who are willing to work should be able to survive without government assistance?

Look, I came from Cuba, one of the few countries that has embraced true socialism. I came to this country not knowing the language and without a penny. And now I own land, two houses, and have a job that I make more than I need. So what is the excuse for people who are born in the United States, already having a home, not to have more than I need? It is a rhetorical question I know the answer and I put it up on top in my initial meme comment, they lack the will to put any effort. The issue is democratic politicians want to condition the population to believe that they need to depend on them, that they are hopeless, and that is not the case. This politicians are enablers of lazy people. Everyone in United States is capable of getting ahead, they lack that will to do so. Maybe those American people that lack the will need to migrate to socialist countries, just like people from socialists countries migrate to United States to get ahead. Those people crossing the US border, they understand, they know, American people have forgotten.

Dang. That's the American dream right there. Moving to the US, getting an education, getting a job, and living freely and comfortably. I sincerely and greatly admire your dedication.

Fauscovai, imo you are the perfect example of what immigration should be about in the US, and what many Americans simply take for granted, which is the opportunities available to everyone here in the US. Is the playing field level? No, in many cases it's not. But the opportunity is still there for those who are willing to work for it..

Sometimes it takes someone who came here from another country to teach we Americans just what a great country we have, with limitless opportunities for those who are willing to work to achieve them.

I'm not just speaking about you. My wife is foreign born, and she came to this country and kicked a$$ just as you have. She came here with nothing, and marrying me didn't give her anything, as I was dirt poor back then. But she and I have worked our butts off, we are small business owners (mostly run by her, as I also have a full-time job) and are doing well here in Taxifornia, in spite of a govt that seems to want to give our money away to people who are the exact opposite of someone like you.

When idiots on the left say that a 2x Trump voter such as myself hates immigrants, they're simply being ignorant. I hate anyone who wants to come to this country and live off the govt. I welcome anyone who wants to come to this country and live the American dream as you have.

Congratulations my friend, when I read things like your post, I am very proud to be an American, and very proud this county. Also very proud of people like you, who come to this country and essentially put natural born Americans to shame by way of your work ethic and belief in the American dream, which is very real for those who want to achieve it.

Thanks.

You have few good points. Not everyone has the same opportunities. Poor is Poor, no matter where you're from. There are kids with drug addicted parents who are sleeping under bridges. No one handing them a college education. I would be surprised if you got where you are with no assistance from anyone ever, without ripping anyone off.

"Not everyone has the same opportunities. Poor is Poor, no matter where you're from" what part of I came to United States without a penny did you not understand? " Poor is Poor, no matter where you're from" you are just making up excuses, everyone in Cuba is poor, I just proved that whole idea you have to be wrong, is very wrong, and is the ill brainwashing conditioning from democrats I was referring to. the "being hopeless feel". Look at Morgan Freeman, he was also born poor and black...but look at him now, and he does not cling to "victimhood" like most blacks do. "No one handing them a college education" Blacks get really GREAT grants for college education, I do not get those for being Hispanic, and white people do not get them either... I think that is racist, but then why are more white people still investing into college than black people, who gets those "Black people" racist exclusive grants? They lack the will to get ahead, you will get tire of hearing this from me. Also college is an excuse, to land the job I got I went to 4 week training to get certificates that show that I can do the skill required for the job, lots of that training I did myself by watching free classes in Youtube. So there are many great alternatives, even FREE!, for college. You are also ignoring the fact that most cities have community colleges that are WAY affordable.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your job?
So you went to some sort of on site training instead of going to college?
Your experience sounds interesting and inspiring.

So I am a network/email/IT and Linux admin. I mostly manage a large base of users and devices for a large IT company. I Comptia certified Linux administrator, A+, and Network administrator. I also have Office 365 MS 900 certification and Office 365 MCSA certification as well as Google Apps for Business certification.

Some of what you are saying I disagree with. I said you have some valid points too. I am not a socialist, and I'm not defending socialism. Anyone who leans to far left or to far right is fascist. All I'm saying is there is socialism present in a healthy democracy as well as capitalism. There is a balance. Also I think you are a little to hung up on race, but thats none of my business.

A little hung on race, maybe because I do not get all the benefits black people get... Yet they are the ones complaining they do not have all I have... lol, AND they are the ones accusing me of taking their jobs repeatedly. That aside, I do not know about socialism at any level being healthy to be honest. It enables people to live a lazy living style rather than going out and getting things for themselves, and also enables them to be dependent on someone...eeeck. Lazy and dependent don't sound good to me.

Saying poor people are poor because they are lazy is wrong. Another complex issue that I don't expect everyone to understand. To say black people have all of these benefits and opportunities sounds ignorant to me. Saying black people as a whole are accusing you of taking their jobs is also something I can't agree with you about. That being said, You are entitled to your opinions and can only speak from what you know, I don't hate you for it.

While community colleges do give associates degrees, it's harder to find ones for bachelors degrees, which are becoming an increasingly necessary part of a person's resume. It's possible to succeed without one, yes, but that little piece of paper that effectively says "you paid tens of thousands of dollars to learn a bunch of things over 4 years and got a passing grade" is what people look for nowadays when hiring. And while, sure, there are plenty of scholarships out there, it's not likely to cover the majority of the costs for most people.
And school systems push college and teach it as a near-necessity too. Even when college isn't necessary, millions of people are caught in the cycle of 'school, college, job, work, retire at 65' as opposed to finding a job they love and making it marketable. I agree that people can better themselves no matter their position, but people have certainly had it drilled into their brain that success is tied to following a specific set of steps in life. It's not always for lack of effort that people are stuck where they are. Some people aren't able to get a better job for their skillset, and others aren't able to find work that overlooks that they skipped 4 years of potentially crippling debt.

I am only talking from my personal experience. Some one asks me if it can be done, my answer is yes. Is it easy? No, not easy. Is it achievable, yes, certainly, you have to put effort in it. quitter attitude is never going to take you anywhere. You do not have to go to college, that whole thing about "you have to have a college degree to get ahead in life" is a thing of the past. College only guarantees you a debt, not a job.

Mhm

You dont need a college education to get ahead

I agree. I'm a bootstrapper. I have no education. No-one has had it harder than me. I have worked hard and I've pulled myself out of poverty. It's taken decades. I get by on 100% hard earned skills.

"Saying poor people are poor because they are lazy is wrong". There is nothing wrong about it for calling people for what they are, I came here poor, but certainly I am not lazy. I am not rich either, if you try you get what you need.

"To say black people have all of these benefits and opportunities sounds ignorant to me" Where did I said they have all the benefits? I said they get college grants for the color of their skin, also true, and that is getting special privileges over other races which is ...racist.

"Saying black people as a whole are accusing you of taking their jobs is also something I can't agree with you about" Why? Because.... black people can't be racist? Newsflash, anyone can be racist, AND while I was living in Memphis Tennessee, a city mostly populated by black people, I was constantly told that by the people in there. I am again, speaking from my personal experience. I have nothing to win or loose lying to you.

You are entitled to your opinions. It's unfortunate that you are so hung up on race.

Not opinions, but "life experience " I assume you know the difference. Action and reaction. I only broug race as an example. You are the one hung up on it who can't argue worth of shiat agaist any of the other of points I made.

I speak from life experience as well. One that is different than yours. I'm sorry if you can't handle it.

...AND, you have not yet given an example of your personal life experience, you have been posting opinions.

One example of my life experience is how I have gotten a lot further in my career because of people with different skin colors of my own. If I was caught up in race I would have never had certain opportunities, and if that is how others were towards me I wouldn't have had the chance to elevate them to certain levels. Of course there are people I've met along the way who can't get past skin color. They have gotten left behind. When I said it was unfortunate you are so caught up on race I meant for you, not for me.

"I said you were entitled to your opinions" it is a form of an a cisation, it is devaluing my life experience statements to simple opinions. Maybe you should have used different wording. You know, you can report work racism even if it favors you. But glad you are getting ahead. Context here us people who turn to socialism because they lack the will to get ahead.

You can believe that if you want, it's well within your rights and doesn't bother me at all.

Cant handle what? You accusing me of giving opinions? Or me not having a victimhood mindset?

I never accused you of anything, I said you were entitled to your opinions. You can have any mindset you want.

Right here in a nutshell, intothetrashcompactortoo, this post of yours couldn't more clearly illustrate why someone like Fauscovai is a success, while you seem to want to foster entire classes of individuals who are dependent on the govt.

It's pretty sad that your default thinking is that anyone who succeeds from having nothing, must have ripped off someone. Try believing they worked hard. It may change your entire point of view.

Fauscovai found a way out. There is always a way out, at least in the US. Even for those hypothetical kids from your post, with drug addled parents who are sleeping under bridges. Could they use some help? Hell yes! IMO, they'll be better off if help doesn't come from the govt.

Regarding the standard of living for the poor, I've seen several studies that show how much better off the poor in the US are when compared to the poor in other countries. You should look into that, as you may find it interesting.

But back to help and working hard; sure, most successful people have gotten some help from others. Once they decide to work hard, successful people will come into their life. Nature fills the void. People want to help, because they know there is more than enough in the US to go around for everyone, as long as they're willing to work for it.

So, no, successful people don't sit around and wait for the govt to take care of them, which sort of seems to be what you're advocating.

I get it; in my young, poor days, I had an incredible lack of ambition. But I hit a point in my life when I decided enough was enough with being poor. As soon as I started on that journey, people who could help me came into my life. Like I said, nature fills the void.

And when I met my wife, she was poor too, but we realized we had the same attitude about wanting to work hard, and succeed. Now we own a thriving small business and have nearly paid off a home in the SF Bay area, with its obscene housing prices. (want to buy a 1700 sq. ft. house in a decent area? prepare to start at $1.5 million)

We didn't achieve by way of any direct help from the govt. In fact, we tried to seek their help but they were too inept, too inefficient. They were exactly what one would expect; all rules and no understanding of what it takes to run a business. They were and still are quite an obstacle to success. Regulation after regulation for a type of business they clearly know nothing about.

It's almost like they don't really want us to succeed. Almost...?

I did not say he ripped anyone off. I said I would be surprised if he became successful with no help from anyone and never ripped anyone off. I never advocated fostering entire classes of anyone. I was just saying that there is socialism present in a healthy democracy as well as capitalism. My story and your story are very similar. There is actually a lot in your statement I agree with as far as working hard and having good people and fortune come into your life. I also agree with you that nature has a lot to do with it. How it fills the void. I've never had anything handed to me and I've never asked anyone for a damn thing. How on earth do you figure I don't really want you succeed?

Here's one definition of socialism:

"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

The problem is that while socialism may ideally be described that way, practically speaking, that's not how it works, and you know it. So, the last part should be changed from:

"...should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

to:

"... is owned and regulated by the government."

Want "free" healthcare? Sure, no problem. But the govt will tell you exactly what treatments you're eligible to receive, and you are gonna have to wait. And if you want to be a professional in the health care industry of a socialist country? Well, be prepared for the govt to control how much you earn and how much and where you work. You've just found out that in a socialist country, free healthcare means someone other than you has a right to your services and controls your career.

And that my friend, is about as anti-Liberty and anti-American as it gets. Or at least it used to be until people like Biden let themselves become puppets of newage groupthinkers like AOC and probably you. (that last part is just an ASSumption, but I'm feeling pretty confident about it...)

I am not a socialist. I am not defending socialism. All I am saying is that socialism is not a form of government. Anyone who leans to far to the left or to the right is fascist. There is socialism is present in a healthy democracy, as well as capitalism. Then there is the definition of socialism, and then there is your opinion of you think the definition should be, and then there is the real world and that is what nobody seems to understand, No matter how I explain it or how many times I say it.

I understand. It is an economic system that all tyrants and dictators absolutely love because it benefits only them and their cronies.

I can't say you are wrong about that. It's not exclusive to socialism though.

That's a bingo!

In those countries, the only ones who are truly secure, are govt officials.

If you cannot survive on $15/hr, you're doing something wrong. That means that a single person that makes 2k after taxes can afford a two bedroom apartment at 900 a month with 1100 left over for bills and food. Two people on 15 would have more than enough even with kids. When I see people bitch that they aren't making enough (livable wage) leads me to believe three points 1- they're blowing their money on stupid sht like brand new Mustangs and the newest iPhone. 2- THEY AGREED TO THAT WAGE IN THE INITIAL INTERVIEW!!!! And 3- they are fk offs at work which is why they can't get a raise.

So in your opinion every uneducated person who is able should work forty hours a week and live in a $900.00 apartment. That sounds shitty to me. Almost fascist. I'm not going to ask how much money you make or what you do for a living, but you are out of touch. It's a good thing you aren't in charge, telling everyone what to do with their lives.

First off, you don't need to be "educated" to have a really good paying job. You didn't ask, but I have an associate's degree in the medical field, but I make more as a plumber with on the job training. If you manage your money correctly you can make ends meet without living paycheck to paycheck. I'm not telling anyone how to live, just stating facts. If you want to blow your money, fine. Just don't bitch that you aren't paid enough.

I agree with you about not needing an education to have a really good paying job. Maybe you should be a financial counselor. These people don't need more money, they need more money management.

Oh I'm not the one who's good managing money, my wife is lol. But I've learned a lot from her. She makes 17/hr and I'm currently a stay at home dad. We're insured, own a house, two vehicles, 5 kids and somehow don't have to worry about money with no government assistance. 12 years ago I was on the street.

word

Grow a brain.

As I'm sure you already know, people who make comments like that rarely have anything left in the tank. Details and facts that support their point of view are hard to come by, so they don't have them. One could almost say, they'd need to work hard to get those details and facts. But we know that kind of hard work just ain't gonna happen!

He's got a brain. He just has an opinion that you disagree with. Since you believe he needs to grow a brain for having a different opinion than yours, it could indicate that the one making the suggestion might want to consider taking his own advice.