We live in a clown world.

Seatbelt doesn't have a chance of killing you just by wearing it.

Neither does a cloth face mask.

The point is, masks and seatbelts are preventative, chemo isn’t. So it’s a dumb analogy.

Fauci didn’t say masks didn’t work- he said they would do very little good if worn by healthy people. But that was in February 2020, before we realized how much transmission was from asymptotic people. He explained the change when the guidance was revised.

The latest info is it the virus is spread through very fine aerosols which penetrate damn near every mask including N 95.

Source? I'm tired of Easter 🥚 hunts for the night.

Here you go
https://scitechdaily.com/new-research-shows-alarming-risk-of-covid-19-from-aerosols-to-healthcare-workers/

Asymptomatic transmission is so low that - according to this recent study by the CDC - it can't even be quantified.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article (from April 2021)

Lockdowns, masks, all over the world, causing suicide, divorce, violence, mental illness... all for nothing. They said asymptomatic spread was the reason for all the restrictions. The lockdowns, too.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7580982/

There's an article about psychological impacts of COVID. I no longer have a best friend due to his suicide during lockdown. No longer have a brother-in-law because of divorce during lockdown. We need to talk more about those people... not just COVID patients. The suffering is en masse.

the first study makes the point of saying they considered asymptomatic transmission and presymptomatic transmission to be different and that presymptomatic transmission accounted for 75% of the transmission. They point out that their difference in definition might account for the lower rate. It think most people would consider asymptomatic and presymptomatic to be the same - you aren't showing symptoms. So if you wait until you show symptoms, you are already infecting people, which is the point of wearing a mask whether you think you are sick or not.

As far as suicide rates: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-suicides-have-decreased-during-the-covid-19-pandemic
Suicide rates went down 6% last year. I'm sorry for your friend and your brother in law. The divorce and breakup rate have gone up worldwide, but if looks like they hit a 50 year low in the US.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/number-1-in-2020-the-us-divorce-rate-has-hit-a-50-year-low

On the first one, I guess you're correct with the fact that they (our leaders) are shitty communicators. "Asymptomatic" was the "buzz" word. The media pushed the narrative that there were shitloads of untested people, who don't have symptoms, who are spreading the disease. That was not true. Asymptomatic people do not spread COVID. Children do not spread it, either. I am of the opinion that before you lock people in their homes, you better have a solid effing reason and know how to clearly communicate it. It's better to do nothing if you can't do those things.

As far as your healthline source, among other sources (i looked them up), they're asking me to believe that suicides don't correlate with depression. Seems dubious.

Who are you to say the asymptomatic don't spread it - which is utter nonsense, btw?
That's how most got infected by.

Maybe that’s on me? I was using the term interchangeably. I don’t know if others were or not.

I’m unsure about the suicide numbers. I wouldn’t have been surprised to see them go up.

Was it across the board or did it drop for one demographic? A deep dive on what changed could be interesting. Maybe kids were bullied less with home school? Maybe a little forced togetherness was actually good. Maybe the sense of common purpose made people feel less alone. Or maybe I’m full of it.

So a surgeon with covid is good to operate because the mask will keep everyone safe right?

Yeah, and he can drive like a maniac because his seatbelt will keep him safe too. 🙄

They’re uncomfortable, dehumanizing, and utterly worthless at health protection.

I think the point of masks is to help prevent the spread to OTHER people. As for personal protection for yourself, quite ineffective.

Protecting other people from sickness is no ones job outside of the medical profession. Forcing someone to do something to save someone else from nature is the pinnacle of tyranny. It is a blank check to facists.

Guess again.

Irrelevant.

Totally relevant to protecting someone else. Masks leak and allow aerosols through in both directions.

Figure 3. From article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/

Irrelevant because they aren't stated to be perfect. They reduce transmission, they don't prevent it. What you are doing is the equivalent of showing a Kevlar vest and saying it doesn't cover the whole body and is therefore pointless.

It's relevant because professional masks aren't 100 percent effective and they haven't tested that garbage cloth masks 99 percent of the public is wearing.

What you are doing is saying that two shirts should help protect against bullets, since Kevlar does. Thanks for the perfect metaphor dragon.

But there have been tests with those masks. Remember, that's why they suggested the double masks: a surgical mask with a cloth mask on top of it. The surgical mask is the right material and is disposable - the cloth mask forces a tighter seal than you would normally get from a surgical mask.

The recommendation is also for masks with 3 layers of material, which is why airports and airlines no longer allow people to use a bandana or gator to cover their mouths.

But what is that picture above? Some kind of vapor? If it's just a gas, of course that should be even smaller than microbes and viruses.

The point with masks is that the viruses would ride in microscopic water droplets. It seems you understand that, so I'll just say the above picture relates to coughing. I think it's pretty clear the masks are less effective if dealing with a cough or a sneeze. But then again, you shouldn't be going out if you are contagious anyway.

But if I’m not sick, there’s nothing for me to spread to other people, so they’re useless.

Me yet medical professionals use them all the time.

Totally different setting and purpose.

Doesn’t mean “utterly worthless at health protection”.

When people breathe, they have natural defenses in their nose, such as hairs which trap dust and mucus which traps germs. Plus reflexes such as coughing and sneezing expel them. Incisions don't have those protections, so surgeons need to wear a mask.

Awesome. So, then why do we get sick at all? Why do we cover our mouths when we cough? You deserve a reward.

Do you understand the difference between "when we cough" and "all the time," you imbecile?

I do. I also understand that full covering as with a mask is more effective than a cupped hand.

I hope a surgeon isn't sneezing into his cupped hand. At least, not when he's operating.

You know that a surgery room is not like ordinary life, right? A patient being operated on is severely immunocompromised. Saying we should act that way all the time is insane.

I notice you don't even bother proving one thing I've said wrong. All you retards have is empty rhetoric, no reasoning, no evidence, just emotional abuse. Go to Hell.

Uncomfortable - subjective
Dehumanizing - opinion
worthless - not according to doctors

Which of these do you want me to disprove? Because the consensus is that they work.

Do a Google search for facemask efficiency/effectiveness and only read research that was published before coronavirus came out

Searched for: "the use of medical face masks to prevent"

2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(16)31010-4/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjQ75HhoYfxAhXTKM0KHd7gCNgQFjAVegQIIhAC&usg=AOvVaw3sQ9nEYVW2Q5brd9KEUD0P&cshid=1623128825405
Conclusion: A modest proportion of attendees of MGs (mass gatherings) use facemask, the practice is more widespread
among health care workers. Facemask use seems to be beneficial against certain respiratory infections at
MGs but its effectiveness against specific infection remains unproven

2015 https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h694

the nine trials of facemasks identified in community settings, in all but one, facemasks were used for respiratory protection of well people. They found that facemasks and facemasks plus hand hygiene may prevent infection in community settings, subject to early use and compliance.

2017 https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681

This one says they helped too. I wasn't looking only for ones that said what I wanted, these were the first few that came up.

Straight from the horse’s (Fauci’s)mouth

https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703

The email he said they are for sick people to wear and wouldn't help much against a virus - but would offer some defense against droplets.

"The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you."

he recommended that the person who sent him that email not wear a mask, but bear in mind that was February 5th and we had 12 confirmed cases in the US.

And when the guidance changed he explained that it was because it had been determined that asymptomatic spread was high with COVID. Actually, it turns out presymptomatic spread is the culprit in most cases, not asymptomatic, but for all intents and purposes it means that a good percentage of the spread is from people who don't know they are sick. As such, healthy people are recommended to wear masks as if they were sick people.

If freedom is more important to you than safety, fine. But why make up stuff and intentionally misrepresent what people are saying? For example, if you don't want to wear a seatbelt, don't wear one. But don't try to make it look like seatbelts don't work with half-ass misrepresentations.

"Consensus" This is the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum. Masks and mask mandates don't do shit. You want actual evidence instead of emotional abuse? Here, have fun, asshole.

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/

Ad populum is an appeal to popularity - like the 'common sense' masks don't work argument. The closest to a fallacy I got to was Appeal to Authority, but that would be if the extent of my argument is 'because experts say so'. I suppose I did that, but it wasn't my intent. I can argue the effectiveness of masks...but it feels like a waste of time.

The slides from that site do support what you are saying. However, they are obviously cherry picked and ignore things like the growth rate in counties that did or didn't implement their own mask mandates. One of the big indicators of spread I've read multiple places was whether in person dining was permitted. Even with a mask mandate, you obviously have to take that off to eat.

I agree that masks aren't a magic bullet, but every little bit counts. Something like a pandemic is complicated and its difficult to lock down what worked and why. So...in the end it might turn out masks didn't work. I have no political or emotional investment in that. I'm only arguing the point because people pretend they know they don't work...and our definitions of 'know' are apparently quite different.

For those places where the metrics have shown that it does work, maybe it was people wearing them taking other countermeasures more seriously. I truly don't understand why Coivid became political, and I don't see any reason not to wear a mask (I'm used to it at this point), I'm convinced of their potential to be effective; and I don't see why anyone would want to trick me into wearing a mask.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but it costs me very little to wear one, so I'll wear one.

Yes they actually do. They don't protect you or others and they gather viruses and microbe colonies, which you then breathe in. They also kill you from lack of oxygen (see the teens that died during gym class)

Where did you dredge that BS from?

From scientific studies. Get off the CNN and do some research please.

Source, please.

You need a source to prove that

A: masks get dirty
B: masks restrict breathing

Try common sense lol. Or you can Google the first. There is a reason the cdc recommends washing your mask daily, which most people don't do. As for the second blow on a piece of cloth. If it moves guess what? It restricts breathing. Do you need a medical study to tell you restricting breathing is bad?

So, if we use common sense and wash masks daily, along with other CDC recommendations - like wearing a mask if you aren’t vaccinated - then masks aren’t going to kill you just by wearing them.

At least you admit that you didn’t get your BS from scientific studies since you can’t even site one. Next time, just admit that you pulled it out of your ass.

Again what doesn't kill you is not a measure of goodness. Oh this flesh wound won't kill you, so why not. Great logic.

I know you need some authority to spell everything out for you so you never have to excercise your mind. Common sense is that, as stated earlier, a shirt isn't a Kevlar vest and a cotton mask is not a valid medical device so wearing it would be stupidity.

But again you are probably someone with either no job or a paper pusher so you wouldn't understand why wearing a mask all day while sweating and working with toxic items isn't a safer bet.

Since you seem to have lost track of the debate - it happens often when you twist and squirm trying to justify your BS - let’s do a little review.

You: “Seatbelt doesn't have a chance of killing you just by wearing it.”
Me: “Neither does a cloth face mask.”
You: “Yes they actually do . . .”

That’s what we’re debating - if wearing a face mask can kill you. Now you’re backpedaling with your “what doesn’t kill you is not a measure of goodness . . .” comment. Nobody is saying if it doesn’t kill you, it’s good. So quit spinning, it’s making you dizzy.

Now, if you can site a case where someone actually died from simply wearing a cloth face mask - not washing it and all - then please, continue the debate. Otherwise, you’ve got nothing.

If masks worked to prevent it, it wouldn't have kept spreading dingbat.

Oh, so you don’t think wearing a seatbelt is with it because people who do still get injured and die in crashes. Talk about a dingbat . . .

No it's about freedoms, things you don't appreciate.

You don’t make any sense. What do freedoms have to do with the effectiveness of preventative devices like masks and seatbelts?

I think his point is - whether you choose to wear a mask or seatbelt is separate from their usefulness. People throwing out pseudo science to justify their decision. Is it about freedom or bad science?

I think his point is - whether you choose to wear a mask or seatbelt is separate from their usefulness. People throwing out pseudo science to justify their decision. Is it about freedom or bad science?

Good thing the OP or the thing you were replying to had nothing to do with face masks. Stop moving the goal posts.

So what do you think it has to do with, vaccines?

Absolutely nothing, since neither masks nor seat belts could have a risk of harmful effect just using them.

Agreed, but you didn’t answer the question. What do you think the OP is referring to?

And I don't have to answer that question, and I don't intend to.

We both know the answer. We both know it's an analogy. The issue is you keep hopping from one analogy to another when your first gets debunked.

No, I don’t know the answer. That’s why I’m asking.
What analogies have I kept hopping to and how have they been debunked?

Fixed that for you

LOL

I- thats an actual good argument upvote for you

Not really an argument. Just mocking the dumb analogy.

Ironically, it seems seat belts seemed to INCREASE the total amount of accidents per capita, because people got a false sense of security.

This was a good attempt regardless, but still, I do not see a seatbelt as intrusive. I think I would generally wear a seat belt regardless of if there was a law for it. The only really annoying thing is when you just have an extremely short drive through a residential neighborhood and I DIDN'T want to wear my seat belt, and my car kept beeping at me more frequently and more loudly because I wasn't.

It was just mocking the meme because it’s such a dumb analogy.

😂 Deflection? Really?
It’s called mocking.

lol good one!