Voter IDs and Vaccine Passports

If we've gotta have vaccine passports (which I consider an egregious privacy violation), then yeah, I want universal voter ID.

Or we can do it the right way and have neither...choose to get vaccinated or not, and prove in some way (not necessarily ID, there are plenty of ways) that you're a resident of that state in which you're voting. Done deal.

That would work if the virus doesn't mutate to the point where it renders the vaccine moot. I hate to say it, but this vaccine needs to be mandatory. Not right now, tho. Not until the FDA can sign off on it. By then there is NO REASON to not get that vaccine.

Woooow, that's not a fascist worldview at all..."The citizenry would benefit most from this action, so I'm going to make them do it."

Geez dude. Whatever happened to freedom of choice regarding personal health? So what if someone doesn't want to take every precaution against a particular malady?

Riddle me this; if everyone has access to the vaccine, which at this point is true for us in the U.S, then it stands to reason that the only people who won't get it are those who don't want it (or children, who are still so extremely unlikely to suffer complications from COVID that it's probably more dangerous to play on the monkey bars in the park). What is the big deal then? And don't go into hypotheticals; so far there have been no mutations that our primary vaccines haven't been able to combat. We're dealing with real-world policy here.

I think I will go into hypotheticals since that was my main premise before you leaped down my throat and called me a fascist.

It would be a fascist worldview if I applied that logic to every aspect. True, making the vaccine mandatory for everyone is a generalization but I didn’t say everyone should have the vaccine. Yet, I will yield it could be inferred so I’ll happily clarify.

No, there should be exceptions but choice is not one of them. Not if we want this disease eradicated effectively and quickly. Had it have been as severe as Polio, perhaps more people would be lining up to get it. But I don’t think dwelling on how dangerous Covid can be is productive either. If we wait around to see if the mutations have rendered the vaccines ineffective then we have waited too late.

That isn’t fascism but a fact. The reason most people aren’t getting the vaccine is because they think it’s more dangerous than the virus. This is not based on any real scientific fact!

I have no objections to the current legitimate exemptions to getting the vaccine such as young children, pregnant women, or those who have any potential allergies from the proteins administered, as well as any exemptions I might have missed!

Everyone else has no excuse. Choosing to allow a virus with a fatality rate that is higher than 2% (when there are zero precautions) to thrive is reckless and idiotic. The mutations are not only deadlier but are not as picky in who they target.

I’ll even offer that some these concerns are somewhat legitimate as there are people in the private sector who are clearly among the exemptions who are being discriminated against but ideally, they would not. If it makes you happy for me to condemn them and any representative that pushes for a mandatory distribution without legitimate exemptions, then so be it.

But there are far too many people who are misinformed and purposely remaining ignorant. That is far more dangerous, in my opinion, than simply wishing for us to stop being stupid and take a vaccine.

Boiled down, your entire argument is essentially, "I know better than others and therefore they need to have their life decision forcibly changed."

Check my comment history here; I don't throw around charged terms like 'despot' or 'fascist' lightly. The fact of the matter is that you are asking for somebody's will (as an individual in a decision that wholly concerns their own body) to be overridden in favor of the collective good. That is front and center a despotic view. At least own up to it.

You want my opinion? Let's draw the line at mandating vaccines. Instead, let's advocate for continued dispensation of clear and sound medical advice. It sounds as if that lack of clear information and informed decision-making is your grievance anyways. By doing this we are not only ensuring that our civic duty to inform and help others is being fulfilled, we are still observing and respecting the right of everyone to make decisions that may not be the most sound (in our view). It's a much fairer line to tread than this ham-handed, "Shut up and do as I say." mandatory-vaccine nonsense.

If you want to change someone’s mind because you disagree with them, maybe don’t lead with “You’re a fascist”

Unless, of course, you don’t want to change my mind and your opinion of my character is made up.

I’ve made my concessions where you stand by your convictions.

I’m here to discuss politics and ideas

Not my personal character.

Lay off the strawmans.

Oh, and please don’t think I’ve taken any offense. Unlike you, I don’t take ideas personally.

The only one assuming I've made any statement regarding your personal character is you, actually. You'll note I called your worldview regarding vaccinations, not you yourself, fascist and despotic. There is a clear distinction. I can judge an idea or a view because you've laid it down clearly in writing and it is a self-contained entity. You character is something I can't judge even to a minute degree because I don't know who the heck you are in person, nor will I ever claim otherwise unless we meet (which is highly unlikely).

My conviction is that everyone should have a right to decide to what degree they wish to protect their personal health. If you disagree that's fine. It's your view to hold. It's just a very invasive one that really doesn't allow for personal freedom regarding vaccinations, which I consider egregious.

What strawman argument have I made? I did nothing but succinctly lay out what you yourself typed and then laid out my own counterproposal (which you've failed to address entirely).

It's nothing personal, my friend. It's just rhetoric, which is the art of properly arguing. I do it for fun.

I do it for work. I get paid. Not here, of course. I’m so glad to hear your mind is not as made up in regards to my personal character as I’ve previously stated. I would like to remind you, it is very irrelevant if I am a fascist or not. I could be a fluffy pink elephant with razor sharp teeth and green eyes. If my argument has a flaw, I am very interested to hear it. Otherwise, I suppose I am asking, “at what point does a personal choice become a necessary sacrifice?” And I admit, it is not an answer I quite like either.

If enough people take the vaccine that it keeps the impact of mutations to a minimum, then making the vaccines mandatory is a moot point.

The following comment by you are strawman:

—Boiled down, your entire argument is essentially, "I know better than others and therefore they need to have their life decision forcibly changed."

—It's a much fairer line to tread than this ham-handed, "Shut up and do as I say." mandatory-vaccine nonsense.

As they fail to address my argument completely. I already have conceded there should be exemptions but not under the stipulation of personal choice.

I even said that I would like there to be some scrutiny of safety before such things be made mandatory. And I prefer aced this entire exclamation that I hate it.

I’ve even explained to you the potential repercussions of how the choices people are making can make the vaccine pointless.

You’ve failed addressed any of my concerns and simply called me (or my ideas) fascist.

Okay, so. Let’s have it your way. The vaccines do not become mandatory. You’ll very likely have your way if you live in America, as I do. It unlikely the government will make them mandatory. The private sector is another matter and I agree that their handling of it is both concerning and flawed. As I have previously addressed...

I just have one question for you. What happens if the virus mutates and next year we’re back to square one again? If we can make another vaccine, do we make that one mandatory or do we uphold the right of personal choice?

Or shall we continue this song and dance and just hope Covid goes away on it’s own?

And we all know how wait and see turned out.

I admit, my patience is taxing. Going almost a whole year without seeming my family, missing several weddings, and missing out on a lot of my personal life might have weakened my resolve of the idea of personal choice. Especially when it harms others and continues to do so.

No, they do not fail to address your comment and therefore are not strawman arguments. Again, you explicitly state that your only exemptions would be for medical complications, not personal choice. Therefore you are advocating for the government to override the personal choice of individuals in a matter that is purely personal relating to whom it concerns. That isn't exactly a hallmark of a free society. Quite the opposite, in fact. It doesn't matter that you want it to be vetted more and guaranteed to be safe. While admirable, you're basically using that as a moral justification for the aforementioned stripping of freedom which forms the basis of your platform on this issue.

'If the virus mutates, what then?' you asked. Well, that depends on the mutation. If it follows the pattern of say, the common cold, and mutates in such a way that vaccination proves nigh-pointless while the overall lethality of the virus remains the same, and if further mutations seem likely, then what good would it be to produce new vaccines? I'd rather the resources of world governments be focused on other options, since producing a vaccine every year seems like a seriously inefficient usage of resources better devoted towards devising new ways to combat the spread at other points along the contact chain. If it mutated and became orders of magnitude more lethal, mirroring something like TB or Ebola, then we'd certainly need a more comprehensive revaluation of our strategy to combat the virus across the entirety of society (including massive and mandatory vaccination). As it stands though the virus is nowhere lethal enough to warrant such a response, which is right now reserved for extreme cases such as a smallpox bio-attack.

We've all had a tough year-and-a-half, pal. My advice is to take a page out of the British playbook; chin up, stiff upper lip, and soldier on. You're not alone in your suffering. We've all lost time, memories, and people to this pandemic. The difference between a year ago and now is that anyone who wishes can vaccinate themselves freely. By this point just about everyone who wants a shot has gotten one. What good then does it serve to impose vaccinations upon anyone else? The people who want to play it safe have done so, and those who would rather not (for whatever reason) will face the consequences if that is their fate.

I prescribe you sunshine — now get out of my office!!

Good one! #MAGA

You're one of those people that claimed vitamin D would prevent Covid! JK, love it!

and some tunes

/s

The difference is an abortion affects a budding human life in a rather permanent and terminal fashion. A vaccination is something undertaken entirely to protect one's own body. Therefore getting vaccinated is entirely a personal decision. Want to keep others safe? Wash your hands, don't touch your face, stay home if you're not feeling well, and wear your mask. Boom. Done.

Yes!!! Thank you!!!

Party On -595vd4.jpg (click to show) - Upvote for you!

These Traitors are going down even if it's taking longer than we'd like.

😂😂😂😂

We shall not, we shall not be moved
We shall not, we shall not be moved
Like a tree that's planted by the water
We shall not be moved

The guy who thinks healthcare is slavery? Yeah, he needs loads of help.