Family is everything...

Speaking out against people bragging about killing children is self-righteous bullshit?

Nice to know ....

I guess it takes someone who constantly spews self-righteous bullshit to recognize it coming from others.

And now you're copy-pasting things I've said to you. Don't you have an original thought in your body?

You're not worth the time.

In his book Christian Ethics, Norm Geisler provides an excellent summary of the known facts surrounding early fetal development thanks to modern fetology:

First Month: Actualization
Conception: All her human characteristics are present.
She implants or “nests” in her mother’s uterus (one week or so later).
Her heart muscle pulsates (three weeks).
Her head, arms, and legs begin to appear.

Second Month: Development
Her brain waves can be detected (40 to 42 days).
Her nose, eyes, ears, and toes appear.
Her heart beats and blood (her own type) flows.
Her skeleton develops.
She has her own unique fingerprints.
She is sensitive to touch on her lips and has reflexes.
All her bodily systems are present and functioning.

Third Month: Movement
She swallows, squints, and swims.
She grasps with her hands and moves her tongue.
She can even suck her thumb.
She can feel organic pain (8–13 weeks).

Fourth Month: Growth
Her weight increases six times (to one-half birth weight).
She grows up to eight to ten inches long.
She can hear her mother’s voice.

Fifth Month: Viability
Her skin, hair, and nails develop.
She dreams (REM sleep).
She can cry (if air is present).
She can live outside the womb.
She is only halfway to her scheduled birth date.

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christian ethics

Jeremiah 1:5

"Before I (God) formed you in the womb, I knew you."

According to God, the ultimate creator of all things, He knew you before He created you and therefore you are a precious gift in His eyes and to destroy this precious gift that you have no right to destroy, is to destroy God's child, whether it's in the first trimester or the final.

Join civilized society.

It’s wrong to murder our offspring in the womb.

When did God do that?

Did you forget about free will?

What does God have to do with miscarriages?

You don’t have to wait for them to become civilized, do it on your own.

What a disgusting statement. The baby is not a parasite! If she doesn't want a baby, she should keep her legs closed or make her man wear a rubber!

"I never said that fetuses were parasites."

Then don't treat them like they are.

But screw that child in the womb. I get it....

You have two choices here: the woman or the fetus. That’s it.

The women’s status as a fully-fledged person is incontestable. The fetus’s is debatable.

In my mind, the woman wins this one.

Not least because the woman may already be a mother, or planning to become a mother later, but now just isn’t the right time. Abortion is a part of family planning, too.

Banning it and calling it murder would inevitably result in throwing women and, yes, mothers in jail. What then happens to *their* children?

"I just treat women like they're people." How kind of you to treat us like people, since that's exactly what we are!
Now do babies.

See, now you're giving circumstances that rarely happen. 99% of all abortions are done as a form of birth control. Debating abortions performed due to life saving circumstances makes little sense.

"The women’s status as a fully-fledged person is incontestable. The fetus’s is debatable."

I guess that means men aren't fully fledged persons, are they? Because men are expected to give up their lives to save women ("women (and children) first!"), after all. Why should fetuses get special treatment that men don't get?

You can't equate a child with an organ, either. That is dehumanizing the baby, making it easier to just abort it rather than the mother and father actually taking responsibility for their actions.

The fertilized egg is the start of the baby, so yes, it is a baby. It has human DNA, which makes the fertilized egg a human being.

Now you've gone back to equating a baby with a parasite. The baby did nothing to burden the mother. The mother opened her legs, didn't take the pill or have her man wear a rubber. Therefore, it is the mother's and father's actions that created the baby. The baby doesn't "commandeer" anything. Besides, wouldn't that imply that the baby is conscious? Wouldn't that make aborting a conscious, sentient being equivalent to MURDER?

"It's also extremely sexist. The man, who enjoyed the sexual act of procreation as well, does not have to lend any part of his body as a consequence."

Except for the 18+ years of working to provide enough money to feed, clothe, house, and educate at least three people, whereas the woman only has to lend her body as life support for 9-10 months.

You also assume the man enjoyed the act of procreation, but there are any number of cases where the man's will regarding procreation was completely abrogated, when agreement had been made to use all available methods to prevent pregnancy, but then the woman decided she wants a baby anyways.

Plenty of women online agree it's fine to trick your man into getting you pregnant, and they've set up advice forums on the best way to do it, as well as black markets of fake contraceptive products like phony birth control pills and "pre-stressed" condoms.

Regarding your last paragraph, that is a compelling reason to make sure that the one you have sex with is someone you trust implicitly--such as your spouse.
Yes, I am advocating abstinence until marriage.

They are purposely ignoring your analogy. Cognitive dissonance and confirmation biases won't allow them to consider any facts or outside opinion that might harm they're world view

So, what is your position on mandating vacines for the sake of herd immunity?

Vaccines shouldn't be mandatory, but anti-vaxxers are dumb and unjustifiably put other children and their own at risk.

So vaccines should only be mandatory for children? I guess they don't have rights outside of the womb to you, either.

No. Vaccines shouldn’t be mandatory for anyone, as I said.

But anti-vaxxers should be ridiculed and exposed as the science-denying scum they are at every opportunity.

I agree. Medical freedom is important, even the right to make the wrong choice. I consider it important to keep abortion legal. But I am concerned at the moral tone the conversation is taking. I think it would be impossible to legislate all the circumstances when abortion is a moral choice (and it is not our place to legislate morality). But aborting a child simply to pursue an acting career is immoral. She should not be admired and fawned over because of it. It is a far different situation from having been raped and not having the financial and emotional support you need to carry you through the pregnancy. It should not be a casual decision and should be reserved for extreme circumstances.

So your bullshit response is the majority of people believe killing children is okay so it must be okay?

Let's sit and talk for a moment about your weak moral standards, shall we?

You know, it used to be widely accepted that it was okay to beat your runaway slave or force women to stay at home and only speak when spoken to, but since it was widely considered okay, it must not have been wrong, right?

Get the f**k out of here with that shit. A man-made law doesn't make it morally okay. You're taking a life which is not yours to take. And don't give me that bullshit excuse that it's the woman's body and she has the right to kill it. It is a completely separate entity and has every right to a chance at life as any person already born.

Probably. The Bible is used to justify a lot of things. A lot of people don't really understand what God is saying because they don't care to hear it.

You're right: laws change. People's viewpoints on important issues change.

Slavery was legal, until it wasn't anymore. Women's rights have made tremendous advances over the past 100-200 years. And in another 100-200 years, people will look back and no doubt view certain things we did as barbaric. Will abortion be one of those things? Who knows.

What we do know that the consensus viewpoint among Americans that abortion is not murder has been strikingly consistent for the past 45 years, despite the tremendous amount of debate on this subject.

You currently have a 5-justice conservative Supreme Court majority. However, they collectively do not believe abortion is murder, because Roe v. Wade remains good law. I actually don't think a *single* conservative Supreme Court justice would agree with the statement that abortion is murder.

Clarence Thomas is generally regarded as the most conservative Supreme Court justice. So, I looked into Clarence Thomas's views on this. In a 2019 opinion joined by no other justice, he opined against "eugenic" abortions. See: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/enterthefray/la-ol-clarence-thomas-abortion-20190531-story.html

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-483_3d9g.pdf

Despite these interesting and offbeat anti-abortion thoughts, Thomas's opinion stopped far, far short of calling abortion murder.

The GOP talks a big game on it, and they will continue to restrict abortion here and there, but they will never move to outright ban it so long as American viewpoints on this stay consistent. It would provoke too large a backlash.

However, by fomenting this belief that abortion is murder and that millions of "babies" are being murdered every year, they have made a lot of conservative Americans very malleable and willing to excuse all sorts of other misconduct by the GOP and/or Trump in the name of "a greater good." Which works out just great for them.

I'm running out of space and time for now, but I'll end with this thought: Being born is important. You can't just wave that way. Those who want to ban abortion love to talk endlessly about fetal development at age 4 weeks or whatever but completely skip over the wrenching and critical process of birth.

Murder is killing a human being who the law says you can't. Abortion isn't murder, it's killing. If someone breaks into my home I have the right to kill them to protect myself and my family. Killing an innocent child who has yet to be born is wrong, whether it's legal or not. I don't care if a lot of people think it's okay. God doesn't.

Abortion itself isn't discussed, however Jeremiah 1:5 says, "before I gave you life, I knew you." It tells us that God knew you before He created all things. Therefore, destroying His creation is wrong.

Thanks for answering my question, and it’s a pleasant notion. However that seems like an awfully obscure and thin justification as applied to this specific issue. The Bible is full of commands from God and Jesus that are a whole lot more direct than that.

Well, I'm not Christian, and I feel one of the most divine gifts the Goddess gave women is the ability to conceive, carry and bring a child into the world. I cannot see how our great Mother could or would approve of the notion a baby is not a baby until it has been delivered.

Does your God approve of women being treated as birthing machines?

No, and I also do not feel She approves of wombs being used or misused as is convenient. The gift of life shouldn't be tossed away like used tissues. In your haste to argue with people you have completely dodged the point of what I was saying, and that is this: it is not just Christians who have ethical qualms with abortion.

There was a time when pro-abortion activists wanted it to be a RARE and safely performed act. Modern activists, however, have turned into zealots with a "whenever, whatever it takes" mentality not just about abortion procedures, but in how they promote abortion. They will fanatically malign, misrepresent and stereotype anyone who hasn't converted to their doctrine. Abortion is their church, their dogma, their holy crusade. Whatever one thinks of Christianity and Christian views about life before birth, radical pro-abortionism is a cult and a nihilistic one.

Your belief that God doesn't exist prohibits you from telling me what He says or doesn't say in His book. And it certainly doesn't allow you to make any rational point.

Bottom line: Don't try quoting a book that was written by a higher power you have no belief in.

Not murder, if you have no morals....

4/5 agreeing =/= being correct.

nice
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The Bible does not command us to obey our government if it supersedes God's command. It says, "render that which is Caesar's, to Caesar." This means that paying taxes to Caesar is not against God's will, but killing a child is.

You can't argue with libtards. They'll always insist they're right even when all evidence is against them. They're so ignorant

You can't argue with libtards. They'll always insist they're right even when all evidence is against them. They're so ignorant

eyy the bible isn't evidence, neither is calling people "libtards"

There is plenty of evidence in the Bible. Try looking harder.

A book is NOT evidence. Holy Imaginary Jesus Christ you people are so willingly dense.

I read BATMAN comics as a kid therefor BATMAN is real and lives in Gothem

God wrote the book using his people, therefore his book is evidence of creation. Every word. Just because you hate God and "don't believe he exists" doesn't mean he doesn't.

People have gone over the bible with a fine toothed comb and found it to be scientifically, and historically accurate. Such as the prophecy of the temple having no stone left on another which was found to be written before the Roman's did just that.

I'm overwhelmed by your morals and ethics when you think you've won.

Who told you I'm a Democrat? lol it's a riot to watch you people assume anyone who doesn't agree with you MUST be democrat. LOL

It's good to know you see being a right winger requires a person to be a mind controlled robot

You did, It's in one of your low rated comments not worth digging for.

Funny, You couldn't defend your lack of morality and ethics statement, So you got triggered and focused on the Democrat moniker.

Who told you I'm a I'm a right winger? It's a riot to watch you arrogant people pretending to be superior when you are nothing but sanctimonious hypocrites.

"Never have been."

Nice to know you think slavery in America was a morally and ethically superior ideology, since that was a Democrat ideology, as well as the KKK and Jim Crow laws being Democrat inventions.

Once again a leftie accidentally reveals his/her deep-seated, usually hidden racism.