18 or 21 seems more reasonable for life altering decisions, not 8, 10, 15. Let children be children

1,337 views • 71 upvotes • Made by BellaRaynor 2 years ago in politics
68 Comments
WayneUrso
7 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Party  On -  - Upvote for you!
BellaRaynor
5 ups, 2y
thanks so much!
Mr.Gopnik9000
5 ups, 2y
Graeystone
6 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Doing that to an 8, 10, 15 year old is the same as throwing a wrench into the gears of a working machine. Kids and teens at that age are in the stages of rapid physical and hormonal changes and development.(aka growth spurts) Throwing a wrench into their 'machinery' without any valid reason is a bad idea.
[deleted]
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
The reason their throwing the wrench is because they don't like what the machine is doing, if the machine was locking something you love in a giant steel box you would probably throw the wrench in it
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
The machine is doing what it's supposed to,  like a car driving normally, giving puberty blockers to prevent a girl or boy from developing as they were made to is like putting square wheels on a car and expecting to drive it.  The steel box you mention is the mental anguish these children are in because of environmental, psychological,  emotional issues they're trying to deal with. Why must everyone assume depression means lets pump this kid with hormones and cut off body parts? You're not getting to the root of the problem what are these children not receiving from their families and home thats causing the confusion and depression.
[deleted]
3 ups, 2y
You actually act like doctors are like "or you're a teen struggling with mental health?" and then they strap them to a chair and inject them with a comically large needle labelled "Hormones" in blood which then turns them into a cat. It is something that they do when they are absolutely sure that it would help them, why do you feel like invalidating trans kids struggles with "you're just a kid you know nothing about who you are"? How many times will I have to say it before it gets the point across, but it is proven to help them mentally. Trying to take gender affirming care from trans kids is like giving a car square wheels saying "How do you know that circle wheels make it possible to drive" when you saw that same car drive with circle wheels and haven't seen it drive with square wheels.
Garnet0114
6 ups, 2y
A study from the UK's National Institute for Health and Care Excellence reviews the negative effects of puberty blockers which is what the Swedish National Board of Health cites for their decision to restrict the use of puberty blockers: https://segm.org/NICE_gender_medicine_systematic_review_finds_poor_quality_evidence
Choccymilkman
3 ups, 2y
Upvote.

Tell me again why they're promoting this, especially towards children?
Pilf_Gmi
3 ups, 2y
Puberty blockers are reservable, tattoos aren't. You're making a very misinformed false equivalence.
Schxdy_Gr3y
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Oh yes, but buying a gun for your 10 y/o son is an even better idea-
BellaRaynor
5 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Better idea than what? And it's illegal to buy guns until age 21 some states it's 18 or 16.
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Schxdy_Gr3y
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
5 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Still illegal to buy guns for underage kids as it would be to buy them cigarettes or get them a tattoo or a drink at a bar.
Schxdy_Gr3y
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
Well duh, it's not like someones gonna bring they kid into a bar and buy them a beer, the thing is who are you to decide how old a kid should be when they make a decision about their own body?
BellaRaynor
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Which causes more harm? Alcohol or cutting up body parts? I'll give you a few minutes to figure it out.
Schxdy_Gr3y
1 up, 2y
Alcohol, alcohol can cause a multitude of mental and physical problems. However, when getting a gender correcting surgery, it is done safely and has obviously been thought through by the recipient. Any other questions?
[deleted]
2 ups, 2y
Gender affirming care is proven to have an insanely low regret rate and help the kids who get it, and it is extremely hard Tattoos are not something people do for their mental health and over all well being, it's just a cool thing they can get. Can you just stop to do 10 minutes of research, it isn't that hard.
Toejoe
5 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Mr.Gopnik9000
5 ups, 2y, 1 reply
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Toejoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
AfunnyUsername
5 ups, 2y, 2 replies
how you look saying this stuff
areallybadusername
0 ups, 1y, 1 reply
Fun fact crows are some of the smartest birds there are and there resoning skills rival the ones of chimpanzees our closest relatives. This makes us look good.
AfunnyUsername
0 ups, 1y
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Toejoe
1 up, 2y
Octavia_Melody
7 ups, 2y, 4 replies
Conservative logic: people should be able to buy guns at 16 but shouldn't be able to get gender-affirming care til they're 26
regularfeller
10 ups, 2y, 1 reply
18
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Octavia_Melody
5 ups, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
11 ups, 2y, 2 replies
"Some" can you count them on one hand or 2?
Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
"I mentioned those things that typical 16-17 year olds would do that demonstrate lack of judgment and full understanding of consequences as an example of why we might hesitate to let them undergo life altering drugs and surgery without question. Speaking of unrelated issues this is you in a previous comment: " people should be able to buy guns at 16 but shouldn't be able to get gender-affirming care til they're 26"



That's exactly my point. If teenagers make very bad choices and are immature, why should they be allowed to own guns which are capable of killing people?
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Guns have nothing to do with transgenderism,  why are you bringing it up again?
Octavia_Melody
1 up, 2y, 2 replies
The title says:



"18 or 21 seems more reasonable for life altering decisions, not 8, 10, 15. Let children be children"
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
How is owning a gun in any way equatable to mutilating your own body? That's like saying owning a paintbrush is the same as getting a tattoo.
Octavia_Melody
1 up, 2y
You're talking about someone being mature enough to make adult decisions
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y
Still no gun mentioned in the title
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Octavia_Melody
5 ups, 2y, 2 replies
regularfeller
10 ups, 2y, 1 reply
An person reaching their state's age of consent is adult enough, but 18 has long been considered adult.  You can't keep a person a child forever.  That's how you get 35 year olds still living with their parents contributing nothing to the household or society.  



26 seems arbitrary.  I wonder why that age was selected.  I wouldn't vote for that late age.  I did dumb sh!+ when I was 18, regretted choices I made, but I took my lumps and lived with the repercussions, blaming no one but me.



People need to start taking personal responsibility for the choices they make and living with the consequences of those choices.



An adult can do whatever they want to themselves in a free society.  If you do something you can't undo and change your mind after - that's your problem.



So, I will tack on an addendum to my normal leave the kids alone.....leave the adults alone.



The government has no business being involved in a person's life to this extent.
Garnet0114
7 ups, 2y
The human brain stops maturing at age 26 so maybe that's a reason, although I do think waiting until age 26 is a bit too long to wait until one is considered legally an adult and do certain things.
BellaRaynor
7 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Which ones and what are their reasons?
Garnet0114
7 ups, 2y, 2 replies
The human brain doesn't stop maturing until age 25 so that's probably a reason.
BellaRaynor
5 ups, 2y
Octavia_Melody
4 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Correct
BellaRaynor
6 ups, 2y, 6 replies
So what's wrong with waiting until they can give full informed consent for life changing irreversable sometimes sterilizing procedures, why not wait a couple years until their brains have matured? What's the rush anyway? Do liberals get a sick satisfaction from lopping off perfectly healthy body parts in teenagers?
[deleted]
2 ups, 2y
Why do you use the absolute worst comparisons. I didn't know what I wanted to do in like but I did know who I was. And as I keep saying as if I'm a f**king broken record, the regret rate of it is insanely low, and they are proven to benefit from it. for pretty much everyone (not even kids) there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get gender affirming care, one of those being multiple therapists notes. and throughout the entire journey they know of the side effects.
[deleted]
4 ups, 2y, 3 replies
Okay this is just all wrong, 26 is way far past the point of being certain about something like that, I'd consider the absolute maximum age of being certain about something is at max around 15 or 16. What's the rush? The rush is them getting medical care proven to help mental health and overall well being.What is the reason for trying to slow them down? Ah yes we like seeing teens get Gender affirming care, it's not like it improves their mental health or anything like that.
BellaRaynor
5 ups, 2y
"it's not like it improves their mental health or anything like that." My thoughts exactly
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y
"the absolute maximum age of being certain about something is at max around 15 or 16."  Really? Did you know exactly what you wanted to do for the rest of your life at age 16? Even at 18 or 20 most youth don't know what to major in at college.  What 16 or 17 year old has a fully formed judgment, and understanding of actions and consequences? You think kids who are eating tidepods and climbing milk crates or whatever is trending on tiktoc should permanently and irreversibly change their bodies?
Octavia_Melody
3 ups, 2y
Conservatives want to ban gender affirming care until the person is too far along for it to do anything
Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
"I never mentioned a specific age"



I did
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y
So?
Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
It's a strawman because nobody was talking about climbing on milk crates or eating tide pods. You're taking some things that people do which is unrelated to the topic to try to delegitimize the issue.
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y
I mentioned those things that  typical 16-17 year olds would do that demonstrate lack of judgment and full understanding of consequences as an example of why we might hesitate to let them undergo life altering drugs and surgery without question. 



Speaking of unrelated issues this is you in a previous comment: " people should be able to buy guns at 16 but shouldn't be able to get gender-affirming care til they're 26" 



Whataboutism.
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Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
4 ups, 2y
I never mentioned a specific age
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Octavia_Melody
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
4 ups, 2y
StRaWmAn, is your only response? No actual rebuttal? Maybe because it's true
boredmeme
6 ups, 2y
You're using fringe opinions. Very few want gun ownership reduced to 16. Most still want 18. Most want medical transitioning allowed at 18 (well, they agree after 18, there is no need to protect people from their own decisions.)
BellaRaynor
4 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Liberal logic: threatening violence upon your son turned daughter for not following all the gender affirming "care" protocol from age 17 (14 for hormones) but this is fine and should be required by law.
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Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
4 ups, 2y, 1 reply
This mother admitting to practical rape and wanting to strangle her son(daughter)
Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
None of that was mentioned in the other comment. And what does that have to do with other transgender people?
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
If she's forcing her son to keep his fake va**na open which I imagine must be painful and his reality for the rest of his life.  Something you don't see explained in the YouTube videos glorifying transgenderism. You have a wound to care for the rest of your life.
Octavia_Melody
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
I haven't seen any videos "glorifying" "transgenderism"
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Have you heard of YouTube,  TikToc?  Who's getting monetized and sponsorships by large companies like Maybelline, Nike?  Who's taking over women's sports? It ain't actual women,  lol. You living under a rock?
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Octavia_Melody
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
BellaRaynor
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Biological men identifying as woman 



I figured you were
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Octavia_Melody
1 up, 2y
Garnet0114
4 ups, 2y
Irrelevant red herring, you just don't wanna admit that waiting until one is an adult to make a life-altering decision is perfectly reasonable. We don't let people consume alcohol and tobacco until they are a certain age, we don't let people legally consent to sex until they are a certain age, it's only fair we apply that to something as life-altering as transitioning. Another double standard is that when we own pets such as dogs and cats, we are advised not to spay or neuter them until they are a certain age for doing too early can cause hormone problems that affect the development of their bones, puberty blockers also can cause such problems in human children yet we overlook that fact. A study from the UK's National Institute for Health and Care Excellence reviews the negative effects of puberty blockers which is what the Swedish National Board of Health cites for their decision to restrict the use of puberty blockers and they are the most left-leaning government in the EU: https://segm.org/NICE_gender_medicine_systematic_review_finds_poor_quality_evidence
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