Indiana jones

I can tell you didn't actually read the article based on the study of an ART HISTORIAN...so please lets not pretend that this provides concrete evidence that directly refutes the facts of biology

Is it news to you that analysis of archaeological dig sites is a multidisciplinary field?

No, its not. And that makes sense to have people like this on dig sites. But what doesn't make sense is taking the opinion of an ART HISTORIAN on such matters as gender recognition. Especially when the article states that they still don't know definitively that the fact funeral artifacts found in the graves clearly denote recognition of a third gender.

That's because you moved the goalposts.

OP's goalpost: archaeological practices don't reflect the possibility of transgenderism.

Your goalpost: archaeological recognition of the possibility of transgenderism doesn't provide concrete validation of transgenderism.

LOL...your catchall of "anything is possible" is laughable. Sure, its "possible" that this was some way to distinguish a transgender person in ancient Iran. It's also possible and more likely, that it does not. Why is it more likely? Because, as the OP states, and the article states, gender is in the majority, clearly identified between the two SCIENTIFICALLY RECOGNIZED GENDERS of male and female.

I consider this discussion with you closed. If you honestly believe you're handling this well and I'm not, then I'll leave that for other readers to judge.

Thanks buddy.

the votes speak for themselves

All hail our new God-Troll-Emperor

In case you haven't noticed that's his skill.

He probably hits mute during the World Cup whenever that guy yells "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL!!!"

Aye, I've noticed that jplowry is really quite obnoxiously loose with the rules of logic. That's why I kept this discussion short; it's quite plain to see what the two sides are saying, and further discussion won't add anything.

How is recognizing that transgenders existed (which aren't actually a "third" gender) even remotely similar to the /hundreds/ of genders the OP is talking about?

Oh yeah, absolutely no political agenda goes on in the scientific community. . *snort*
https://i.imgflip.com/3169dw.jpg

Oh yeah, absolutely every scientist has some sort of political agenda. Or wait no. That would be stupid! Its just the ones who say something you don't like!

Oil Company apologist:
"What do you mean, there's Global Warming! What do you know! Your just... a... scientist.... oh."

Because according to the left, gender is a social construct. Gender is an emotion or a feeling. If you were born male but feel like a female, then according to the left you're a female.

However, gender is not a feeling. Gender is dictated by biology and no amount of feeling can change that.

Oh, those wacky lefties, acting as though biology is more complicated than what you were taught in high school.

No, I just know basic biology. Unlike you who thinks biology is based partially on emotion.

Basically, I'm not a knuckle-dragging troglodyte.

Exactly. You know the stripped down basic biology they taught you in high school.

Not the more complex nuances of intersex biology. Not the weird stuff that can happen where you can have a gene but for many many reasons it will never actually be expressed.

You know the basic, stripped down, story we give to kids who didn't even want to be in class in the first place.

If you think for one minute I believe biology is as simple as you're claiming I do, you're an idiot.

But the fact you think there are more than two genders prooves you are one.

I apologize if that first sentence read like I was talking down to you. You're not necessarily a high-school child and didn't mean to insinuate that you were.

What I meant was that gene expression doesn't usually make it to common knowledge. And you may well be a medical expert for all I know but what I was trying to do was find a starting point that I could rely on. It was poorly phrased and I hope it didn't come across as demeaning.

Certainly. We don't typically teach gene expression at high school and when we do it unfortunately just flies straight over the heads of most children, but I'm hoping that it's not news to you that a liver cell or a retina cell does not actually need the DNA code for your feet and ears even though every cell has the full DNA code; at any given point in your body, there's an intricate biochemical control over which part of your DNA is being activated for the cell's actual job.

Sometimes that goes wrong for many different reasons. That's why you could have a dominant eye color gene and still come out with blue eyes - it's rare, but it happens, and there's billions of people on the planet so we're talking millions of people or more who could be having this. There's a lot of redundancy in your DNA for this purpose but it's a complicated task to catalogue all the anomalies that this could result in.

Well, sometimes that happens to your sexual characteristics.

Sometimes babies are born with some kind of anomaly in their genitals, maybe their urethra doesn't extend the whole way or their clitoris looks too long - And, most people don't know this, but it's been standard medical practice all over the western world to just snip something down there and give the baby back to the parents without even telling them they've done this.

And kids know when something is wrong with their bodies. Kids know that their bodies aren't doing what people tell them they're supposed to do. If something grows up to have a weird sensation or something isn't growing during puberty quite right due to scar tissue they were never told about, they know. Even if they never find out that the doctors intervened surgically at birth, they know that they just don't have the body of most girls and most boys; and it could be genetic (XX and XY aren't the only two possibilities), but the point is that it could be happening even if they had the X and Y chromosomes as normal but those chromosomes just got activated in the wrong places during development.

Example of academic citation: https://adc.bmj.com/content/89/9/847.full

(There's a LOT of citations I could source but I really just want you to get the idea that this is a legitimate thing in medicine not subject to partisan or activistic interpretations; it happens whether it's convenient to your view on the issue or not.)

That is also true 😣

.........one more than HEINZ ketchup....poor ill little fvcktards

Because there are only two genders

Let's not forget forensic anthropology.

Exactly... Transgenderism is a mental health issue, not a biological / genetic issue.

It's actually not a good reply at all, it's just what people have been telling you to give as a reply.

Would you like to understand why it's not a good reply? There's a lot to talk about, but not if you think you know the answer already.

LOL :-) Nice strawman and ad hominem.

:-) Your argument is a strawman as you are misrepresenting my actual position and trying to attack the misrepresentation. You then try to suggest I am saying something with another strawman :-) :-) Nice work cupcake :-)

To answer your question, what I am saying is that transgenderism has nothing to do with the person's physical body and there isn't a transgender gene. I am saying the issue is a mental health disorder that needs to be treated by a psychologist or psychiatrist - not by a surgeon. Hence why, as the meme suggests, when you look at a skeleton you can determine if it is a male skeleton or female.

That’s actually not the case at all. You’re either one or the other. Male or female. Otherwise your just mentally ill. You can throw all the fancy smchmansy dna talk all day. It just simply isn’t true.

How so?

I've heard is that the brains of many trans men are smaller than that of the average more into play in thinking, then there may be a case for that, but even so, still same structures.

Good lord do you ever stop?

Research the number of transgender people that commit suicide post op.. Surgery is NOT the solution or success.

Research shows that 80 to 95 percent of children with gender dysphoria will eventually identify with and embrace their bodily sex.

Read what Paul McHugh, the former chief of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Hospital, has said about transgenderism and that sex change is biologically impossible..

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/the-sex-change-revolution-based-ideology-not-science

Conservatism is a mental health issue. Bot of our statements are exactly at the same level of truth. Taht is to say none.

Transgender-ism is not a mental disease, its simply what a Person wants to be.

I thought you Americans coveted personal Freedom above all else?

We, conservatives do covet personal freedom above all else. And the issue is not with a man wanting to be a woman or vice versa. The issue arises when transgenders demand society be complicit and accept the transgenders world view.

You do not have the freedom to impose your will on society. For instance, claiming you who are really a man, can use the woman's restrooms in public places because you "identify" as a woman.

"The issue arises when transgenders demand society be complicit and accept the transgenders world view."

I think your missphrassing it a bit. I think Trans people want the world to Accept them as who they are and that they shouldn't suffer discrimination for what they belive in. I doubt the vast majority of Trans people want to force their values on us.

"claiming you who are really a man, can use the woman's restrooms in public places because you "identify" as a woman."

If it looks like a women, acts like a women, talks like a women, maybe we should accept it wants to be a Women? But I can see your Argument.

See..Im accepting them wanting to be a woman, so long as I am not required to also believe they are a woman, but here you are again saying conservatives just accept whatever because the other party believes it. That's now how personal freedom works. Your personal freedom does not necessitate by command the acquiescence of society to your personal believes sysytem.

"Im accepting them wanting to be a woman, so long as I am not required to also believe they are a woman"

Good on you. So long as you respect them like you would respect anyone else, fine by me. Where is the conflict?

" here you are again saying conservatives just accept whatever because the other party believes it."

I think there has been some miscommunication. I did not, or atleast didn't mean to, say that you have to BELIEVE them. Just respect them. Just like I respect Jews, Muslims, Christians and whoever even though I personally hold myself to be an Atheist.

"Your personal freedom does not necessitate by command the acquiescence of society to your personal believes sysytem."

No it doesn't. Thats true. However I do like to belive that you should be able to belive whatever you want and have people or atleast the government respect them.

"Yep we do, and frankly don't care what people think of themselves as long as it doesn't affect others. "

See. We can agree on this, ey?

"The problem has been people with a militant approach"

Extremists I am sure

"They want to change the meaning of words that affects everybody, they want special privileges that affect everyone, they want legislation to punish someone for calling them the wrong pronoun."

Who are "they"?

Anywho, I have no idea how you hot this impression. From what I have seen, Trans people just want to be recognised and respected. Sure some take it too far, but tgere are extremists in every camp.

"In short, people can think they're what whatever, but don't expect others to believe your delusions."

They aren't asking you to belive them. Just to respect them

If a person wants to be the opposite s3x than they were born with, then there is a mental issue at the root of it. And when someone has a mental problem, whether it be thinking they can flap their arms and start flying or thinking they're a cat or the opposite s3x, they need to get help. And encouraging them is not getting them help.

That being said, I don't have a problem with someone who wants to play dress-up. If a man wants to be a woman, so be it. Just don't try to force me to go along with your delusions.

"That being said, I don't have a problem with someone who wants to play dress-up. If a man wants to be a woman, so be it. Just don't try to force me to go along with your delusions."

Thats good and nobody is.

Yes they are. Are you living in a cave somewhere? The laws being passed that punish someone for misgendering is just part of it.

What? Thats just ridiculous! Where?

Canada for starters. And California here in the states.

Really? Thats utterly stupid and I cannot support such laws

Saying transgenderism is not a mental health issue or "disease" as you put it is like saying anorexia / bulimia is not a mental health issue either.

In both cases a person is not seeing themselves as they truly are i.e. one thinks they are not the sex they really are & the other thinks they are not the weight they really are... Their perception of themselves are not correct.

The only difference is, we don't celebrate one group of people by saying "that's right, you are overweight, keep starving / keep vomiting"... There isn't a push for government funding to enable more people to starve/vomit if they "feel" they are overweight.... Laws aren't being created to persecute those that disagree and try to show that the person with anorexia/bulimia does need mental health support and help... People aren't being accused of being a bigot for saying that they are seriously under weight and could die...schools aren't encouraging children to vomit / starve because they "feel" overweight or showing them websites that encourage this... AND survivors of anorexia / bulimia are listened to and encouraged to speak up about the seriousness of this mental health disorder and to tell others about the dangers of their irrational perception of self so other people will get the help they need...

"Saying transgenderism is not a mental health issue or "disease" as you put it is like saying anorexia / bulimia is not a mental health issue either."

No. No its not. End of disscusion

You went from Colonel to Dictator...

No I didn't. If that were the case, you'd be swimming with Concrete Shoes.

Lol... you crack me up. Ha ha ha

I was joking. No need to piss yer pants

LOL I know you were joking, hence the up vote :-) Your comment made me laugh LOL ha ha ha

Uhhh, 40% ring a bell?

No connection, I suppose?

This man is a Conservative. And committed suicide. Is there a connection?!

Get back to me when Conservatives kill themselves at a 40% rate, then you might have something there.

To be fair, its attempted suicide not actual suicide. So bad, but not as bad. Probably has alot to do with the discrimination, hate and victimization Trans people have to face.

It leads to suicide

Who..? All the people that identified as transgender that didn't receive the mental health treatment they needed and committed suicide pre and post op..

“suicide caused by depression” Depression (a mental health issue) as a result of the untreated mental health disorder, gender dysphoria...