Change My Mind

ACLU no longer presents facts or u skewed data. Mail in balloting is rife with fraud. That’s why France banned and other European countries banned it. And that’s the fact Jack.

Yes. Both Parties have weaponized voter ID laws. What worries me are absentee voting and electronic voter machines without a paper trail. I don't think voter ID is such a big deal. Even if there is fraud, it wouldn't be enough to make a difference.

To refute a phony claim requires no proof. The ACLU is a partisan hack group that doesn’t even broadly support free speech anymore.

Everybody has an if already so how would they weaponize that? You show your id you register. Same as getting a passport or even a Drivers license or state issued I’d card. Considering the millions of illegals in the country it’s more important than ever to establish identity and right to vote. You don’t like it because you can’t get your agenda without cheating. We have all seen what the progressive left agenda leads to. Failure!

Oh, is that all you needed? You're right, I should have included a link to the source report.

Here you go: https://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERICANS-WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf

Now all you have to do is prove it wrong.

In this part they admit that the results be taken with caution due to a “smaller than usual sample size”. So their own assumptions are suspect.

The reality is that people who don’t have id aren’t voters not because they don’t have id but because they aren’t interested in voting. Getting an id may be a hassle but it isn’t hard in any state. If you don’t have the mental ability to obtain an ID then maybe you shouldn’t vote.

Regardless of their desire to vote, requiring a voter ID is denying them their constitutional right to vote if, on a whim, they decide to vote one year.

Your ungrounded fear of voter fraud is not grounds for denying people their rights.

“Not allowing non id holders?

That doesn't make any sense.

You can't prove a negative. That's basic science”

Talk about being obtuse. Let’s try not allowing people without ID. There see I fixed it for ya. I realize your argument is bs when you pull the old Fauci science defense.

That is much clearer, thank you.

Because what happens if they move to another state? What happens if the ID gets destroyed right before an election? What if it's stolen? What if it's someone who hates the idea of the government tracking them no matter where they go?

No ID means no vote, right?

Congratulations, you've just denied Americans their constitutional right to vote.

What happens if my identity gets stolen and they request an absentee ballot? How does Voter ID solve that problem? It doesn't.

Voter ID is a solution looking for a problem, and creates a host of more problems along the way.

According to the very conservative Heritage Foundation, there's been 1200ish cases of voter fraud over the last 50 years.

That's not 1 case per year per state. If you include all the local, city, and county elections that number gets even smaller.

There is no evidence that the current system doesn't work. There is no evidence of voter fraud that can change elections.

Voter fraud is reality. The risk is so great other democratic countries don’t allow mail in balloting or ballot harvesting and stuffing.

Exactly how great is that risk?

Can you quantify it beyond your fear? Can you apply some science? Another poster in this thread said that there were 1,200 cases of provable voter fraud in the last 50 years.

With all the national and local elections that have happened across this country, how many 0 are between the first 1 and the .0? Can you create a system that reduces voter fraud to less than current rates? Which is very close to 0. Can you create a system that allows any American their right to vote whether or not they live within the country? Or just moved to a new location? Or just survived an incident that wiped out all their belongings, including their IDs?

And according to the Pew Research center, 25% of democratic countries use mail-in voting. Out of 166 countries for which data is available, 40 used postal ballots in their most recent national election.

How will Americans living abroad vote? How will those Americans living in another country get a voter ID? Because they still have the constitutional right to vote as well. Your fear to use mail-in ballots has now deprived them of their right to vote.

Can you provide any science of how not allowing non I’d holders to vote has affected any election? We heard all the paranoia over Georgia voter “suppression” and then they had record turnout debunking that lie.

The scientific risk of voter fraud? High enough to change or skew elections. Mail in ballots are not the same as absentee ballots provided to actual voters due to special circumstances. This is an idiotic argument trying to conflate the two things because absentee ballots are “mailed in.” Mass mailing of live ballots is ridiculous on its face as is anyone promoting it. This is election risk so high it could change an election. Wait till your opposition catches up and starts doing it and ballot stuffing.

Not allowing non id holders?

That doesn't make any sense.

You can't prove a negative. That's basic science.

“That is much clearer, thank you.”

Most states have provisional ballots for people who lost their id or recently relocated. So your argument doesn’t hold water. The idea that you want anyone to be able to show up and say I want to submit a ballot but you can’t have anything to prove who I am and I might just go and vote at every polling location. It’s ludicrous to believe fraud can’t or won’t be committed at elections. There’s a current democrat ballot stuffing case where the judge ordered a new vote. It’s naive to say elections aren’t open to fraud.

No. My point is that voter id doesn't solve any problems. And the provision ballot system is just fine.

Did I say fraud doesn't happen?

Go point to the part where I said it doesn't happen.

I said that it is not wide spread. And the example you sited, where a Democratic Primary ballot box was being filled by a few people dropping off multiple ballots is a great example how the system actually works.

That state's law prohibits 1 person from dropping off multiple ballots. The system caught the violation of state law. 1 person dropping off multiple ballots is not evidence of voter fraud.

It's evidence of 1 person dropping off multiple ballots. And in that case, a violation of state law.

“No. My point is that voter id doesn't solve any problems. And the provision ballot system is just fine. “

It wasn’t one person it was a couple at least and it wasn’t a few ballots it was a large stack. Anyway fraud exists and is attempted and had surveillance not captured the ballot stuffers an election would have potentially been stolen. It is a risk and the most recent example of voter ID requirements not suppressing vote is Georgia and a record turnout even with new voter ID requirements.

Transparency. If enough voters believe an election is rigged, bad things can happen. History is proof. If there's nothing to hide, why would anyone be against election transparency?

What is wrong with transparency? Is it a bad thing? What is the worst that could happen if states made an effort for greater election transparency? I lived through the 80s, and I've never heard of "satanic panic."

aye

There have been 1,200 convictions of voter fraud in the past 50 years alone!

"According to the ACLU"
LOL
If you're too retarded to get a free photo ID, then maybe you should be voting.

On the contrary, criminals applaud the disarming of good people so they cannot defend themselves.

That is the worst case of dyslexia ihave ever seen.
BB I realize you are 12, please quit skipping school. Especially English class.

No! They oppose gun control in order to stop all of the leftist mass shooters.

FBI undercounts number of times armed citizens have thwarted active shooting incidents: report

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/fbi-undercounts-number-times-armed-citizens-thwarted-active-shooting-incidents-report.amp

We do actually believe in gun control!

A propper stance, firm two handed grip and a good sight picture.

You took a left there when it should have been a right. Criminals support Gun control laws. Most Republicans don’t.

Give him a break, he is 12 and the product of a public school education.

You’re right, but I find it hard to suffer the little commies.

No.