Planned Parenthood is a word that suggests these folks like children.....not really.

How? The are the ones that kill the baby, after all.

It's quite simple really. The woman decides that she wants to keep it and give birth. so Planned Parenthood cannot abort it.

You seem to misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm saying PP ultimately doesn't get to decide what happens and they don't automatically tell everyone to deletus the fetus (as the OP meme would have you believe). They will talk to you about your options and answer questions.

Maybe you should clarify your response to what I'm saying....

So if someone hires a hitman, isn't the Hitman just as responsible for the death of the victim as the person who hired him?

You seem very unfazed by the death of 600,000 people a year.

"They will talk to you about your options and answer questions" LMAO you mean like a used car salesman will "talk to you about your options" LOL

Lol You act like PP has 1 job and they're trying to push abortions on everyone. (More or less like the OP.) Basically that's a false equivalence. If suddenly nobody ever wanted to kill anyone or buy a car anymore, there would be no demand for hitmen or car salesman and basically the jobs would cease to exist. On the other hand if nobody ever wanted to have abortions anymore, Planned Parenthood would still exist since abortions are only a small percentage of their services provided. Have you ever even been to a Planned Parenthood?

Fetuses aren't exactly people but nah .... I'm not fazed at all. Our population is approaching 8 billion and the last thing we need is more mothers who would've had abortions (if they could have) giving birth. Someone else here recently described the would-be mothers as "malignant psychopaths". And I'm like... So you want to outlaw abortion and force more "malignant psychopaths" to give birth..?? America clearly has mental health issues with our problems of homelessness, drug addiction, and shootings happening literally in every part of our society... meanwhile y'all are hell bent on forcing psychos to pump out babies. Excellent plan. What could go wrong??

Okay, and why is that?

No, I am asking more or less the same questions because you keep changing your position.

I still continue to be of the same position that fetuses aren't exactly the same as born people for various reasons, it's the woman's choice, crackheads etc being unable to have abortions would generally not be good for America, abortions should remain cheap, legal, and rare, and once a kid is born i.e. (exits the woman) that is too late.

Which positions are you claiming I changed..??

LOL to you too.
All I've been doing is showing you how your "criteria" either prove too much or are insufficient. And every time you just pick a new one. And we do it again. And again. And again. If you want to end this debate, that's fine. I'll even let you have the last word. But try to be consistent and defend your positions instead of just picking new ones

Also I'd be willing to bet you didn't watch the video. "Source" is not the best word to use.

False. You have shown nothing, you have proven nothing, and apparently you can't even cite a single actual example from this conversation of me "changing positions" despite your allegations that I've done it however many times.

Let me know when you have an actual example of that (aka quotes) and we can go from there.

I answered your boatloads of questions which I was under no obligation to answer, you failed to answer the 2 that I asked, now you want me to watch and respond to a YouTube video................ what I'm saying is you expect too much from people on meme websites.

You know what I mean. Just answer.

The birthing canal/va**na nor a cut open stomach does not grant anything...it is basically just "the line" as I said. Once it is removed and separated from the mother it has human rights.

You seem to keep asking more or less the same question in different ways and I keep answering in more or less the same ways.

Haha. Very funny.

Abortion could have also prevented Churchill and Eisenhower. Shah-mat.

The point is not "who could have been aborted", it's "is abortion wrong". It is.

Nope. The point is:
1. You clearly feel abortion is essentially a mother who hires a "hitman" to "murder her baby" and you want a mother who would have otherwise chosen to "murder her baby" to be forced into giving birth.

2. You and the OP's feelings about abortion are causing you to try and misrepresent Planned Parenthood as a place that automatically recommends abortion to everyone.

Read some of your comments. Every time I give you an example that proves that isn't a qualifier for being a person, you say "well no..." and make up a different quantifier.

Anyway I'll ask yet again- why should the mother have the choice to kill another person?

Lol
Your vague "examples" clearly misrepresent what I am saying because I have literally said "well no" zero times in this entire conversation............ Not that this is anything new for you. One of your initial comments was "you act like Planned Parenthood is this great company that does all this good..." in response to me simply pointing out that they are being misrepresented. ^That is what an actual supporting example looks like.... A direct quote.

You seem to not be able to grasp the concept of having more than one idea in a head. Me expanding upon my answers to your numerous questions seems to automatically mean I am changing my position. But ya let me know if you have any actual examples which we can further talk about.

As far as your latest question- Again.. a fetus is not really a person.... for various reasons which I have already mentioned...... If you are now going to ask why should she be able to kill a fetus? Because it's not really a person. Why should she not be able to kill a born baby? Because it is a person. It exited her body, umbilical cord was cut, began breathing the way people do, brain function etc... One reason does not negate the other, nor is it a change in my position.

The criteria- I would ask you something and you would say "well no" then when I asked you about that, "well no" and so on.

Okay, why is it the woman's choice? I'm asking the same questions because you're arguing in a circle, changing positions along the way. But I'll ask you again- why?
So if the mother has an issue that negates someone's right to life? Interesting...
600,000 a year in America... rare!
So it IS the birth canal that grants human rights.

Go on... what criteria did I change my position on.....? Give me an example.

And in regards to PP: https://youtu.be/VTlKfpt6tgU

Lulz

LOL you act like Planned Parenthood is this great company that does all this good and DOESN'T push abortions on everyone. Haha. The desk clerk is counted as a "service".

"But killing millions of innocent people is only 3% of what we do!" -the Nazis

LMAO.
So your solution to the world's problems is... To kill children. Wow. Amazing plan.

Not really. I just think your view of Planned Parenthood is ridiculous...And it is something like this↓

Me: hi I think I might have an STD.. what should I do?

Planned Parenthood: GET AN ABORTION !!!!

Lol
Anyways...

Abortion could have prevented Hitler. Checkmate.
;)

No, I was using that as en example. However I do believe that a mother who would have otherwise killed her baby should be "forced" to give birth.

That's because they do.

No??? Well in any case if the politicized supreme court picks chosen specifically to overturn Roe vs Wade works out for repubs, you might get your wish. If that comes to pass I predict:

1. Many abortions will still occur but they will simply be outsourced to other places/foreign countries (for the rich)... and others will go underground (for the poor).

2. Some amount will be born and the population of America will further increase as will the amount of kids born with psychological issues.

I would encourage you to actually visit a Planned Parenthood and see for yourself.

So why should she be allowed to kill her unborn child but not her born one?

While I have my own opinions on euthanasia/assisted suicide, we're talking about abortion.

Basically stages of development. An unborn child/fetus is not really a child in my opinion. They have no real memory and are somewhere between a sperm and a human. A born child is also not fully developed but they are considerably more developed than that alien-lookin' thing in the womb. I remember nothing of the time period when I was less than zero years old. How bout you?

And you're okay with killing those kids?

A mother who would abort a baby probably shouldn't have a baby. Homeless, drug addicted, prostitutes, etc should probably not be having kids. But I don't feel like I should make that decision for them. In an ideal world everyone would be mentally stable, have a warm loving household and be able to be kind, responsible parents who are able to cook good meals and provide for their children. But that clearly isn't the world we live in. Some people have none of those things. Meanwhile the same people who want outlaw abortion also want to cut welfare, food stamps, etc..... it's like gee...what could go wrong? Time to build more prisons!

So we should kill people because they MIGHT have "psychological issues". Got it.

I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not do. It isn't my choice. This is simply what I think will occur in the future. That's what a prediction is.

Hmm. So if I killed, let's say... Joe Biden when he was visiting Delaware, would it be okay?
(By the way I understand that this was a joke)

Like I said, theoretical.

What examples are you talking about?

Wouldn't matter where Biden was because he's unconscious anyway.
Badum tshhh. Moving on ....

I thought that what I said was pretty clear but..... eating through an umbilical cord ( which becomes your belly button) is pretty f*cking weird. But also breathing would be another difference. There is no air in a womb so it seems almost like a fish. I guess the fetus just gets oxygenated blood from the mother though. Beyond that I guess eyes stay closed(?).. and mentally/ memory, consciousness, self awareness, and so on...

So you're a pragmatist.
Okay, suppose a "homeless, drug addicted, prostitute" became pregnant. She gives birth to a healthy baby. Two years later, she is struggling financially and she doesn't want the child anymore. Should she be allowed to kill that child?

The kid is born. It's too late. I do think there should be circumstances where assisted suicide should be legal but I haven't thought about it too much
... For example forcing someone with terminal cancer to live in pain seems f*cked up. Grandpa has to live in constant pain but meanwhile the state executes legit murderers as quickly and humanely as possible.

Okay, I have a brother who used to have an illeostomy (your small intestine hangs out of your side and a bag catches the sh*t). You'd probably say that's "pretty f*king wired" right? Does that make him any less a person?

Of course. That's how he/she is supposed to live during the first stages of life. There's nothing wrong with that. And breathing does occur in utero so....

That's a silly criteria, but okay. Don't see how the baby's eyes being closed changes anything.

A newborn is at a very similar level of cognitive development. Is it okay to kill them?

*wierd

Definitely not normal but you're missing the point. Your brother's condition is not/was not an indication of where he was developmentally and he clearly was born already.

NewBORN (already) = no. Not in my opinion.

Okay, so what about a couple hours before that? Are they human then?
Or is it consciousness that makes a person?

They are inside another human so not really but that isn't to say I think anyone should abort a healthy about to be born baby. That would be a bit much. Consciousness is part of I would say.

So you think that your human rights are granted by the birth canal? Explain.

Not really no because C-sections are also a thing.

So it is the location that you think disqualifies unborn children from personhood. Are there any other locations that you think that humans in them are not people, or are you bigoted towards residents of the womb? And, just out of curiosity, suppose a baby is born, but transferred back into the mother's womb. Would it still be a person? (This is theoretical)

"Are there any other locations that you think that humans in them are not people?"

Yup... Delaware.
Lol

The location is more or less arbitrary especially in that example because the kid already was born..... But it wouldn't matter anyway because it seems to me that scenario would basically be a death sentence. In utero a fetus "eats" via the umbilical cord (which gets cut off) and I'm not sure exactly what goes on as far as breathing but the kid would probably drown.

These^ are more very clear examples of how different a fetus is compared to a born child.

So it's the level of development that determines whether or not a person has the right to life?
Okay, so if you think it's not okay to kill a born child, where is the line drawn?
Just because the unborn child does not "look human" doesn't mean it's not.

Theoretically the line is drawn at the va**na or stomach area above it (C-section) but.. I would say 3rd trimester abortions are pushing it. I hear interested parties can still get em in New Mexico but idk.

Well whatever it is I never remember being conscious as one.

Abortion is not the only service they provide. They also provide medical care, STD testing and treatment, birth control, well-woman exams, cancer screening and prevention, hormone therapy, infertility services.

The organization was founded as an abortion provider. They can still do all of that, it's the abortion that needs to be outlawed.

They are founded by Margaret Sanger, a eugenicist. They performed many of the so-called "back alley abortions" of the day.

Outlawing things you don’t personally like does not rid us of social problems today or tomorrow.

Ah. And maybe we should just make murder and arson legal?

It IS a social problem.

We’re not talking about making things legal. We’re talking about you supporting the government to make laws to harass doctors and pretty much every fertile woman who fails to choose to carry a pregnancy to term in the United States.

Then we should get rid of all laws regarding murder, sice we wouldn't want to harass the murderers.

If that is your opinion.

I respect that.

I simply disagree.

PS just because the last comment in the thread is reached, doesn't mean the conversation is over.

That seems like it’s your problem not mine.

"But killing millions of innocent people is only 3% of what we do!" the Nazis

Now do you see the pointlessness of your comment?

Not really. Are you saying police and the military should also be disbanded for killing the occasional innocent life?

Or maybe, perhaps, we shouldn’t ban anything but rather observe the individual circumstances and judge accordingly.

Ah, so 600,000 a year (that's just for the US) is... "occasional"?

I see... So we shouldn't ban murder, we should just observe individual circumstances and judge accordingly?

So, you are okay with the loss of life but you only just object to the high number lost from abortion.

I see… yes, I believe creating unnecessary laws to deter US civilians from breaking the law to be an utter waste of time. Laws should only be made to protect victims. And while you can certainly use the unborn as a prop to justify your cause, the fact of the matter is that your law only creates more victims in women, doctors, even children who may be born to unloving or even resentful mothers.

From a libertarian standpoint, making abortion totally illegal, and not circumstantially illegal - as it should be, cannot be argued successfully.

The loss if any human life (who is not a serial killer) is a tragedy. Sounds like YOU are the one who is okay with the loss of human life...

The unborn children killed in abortion are just as much, if not more so, a victim of the tragedy of abortion as the mother.

"The fact of the matter is" LOL

So not being wanted negates someone's right to life?

From a common sense standpoint, there is no way to justify the heinous act that is abortion.

Abortion being a heinous act is your opinion.

I respect that.

It is just no basis for law.

Okay, so should we legalize murder so as to not impose the view that it is wrong onto society?

Murder is defined the unlawful killing of a person. So, your statement ultimately makes no sense. What you should be asking is:

"Okay, so should we legalize killing so as to not impose the view that it is wrong onto society?"

And my answer to that is, it already is.

It is legal to kill another person in certain parameters of the law. It is also illegal to kill another person in certain parameters of the law. Obviously, not the same parameters.

It is the same with abortion. Not all abortion is legal.

This is as it should be for both murder and abortion.

Wow. You my grammar correct. You debater good.

Don't give me that crap. You know what I meant. But in case you didn't: I mean should the premeditated act of ending an innocent human being's life be made legal so as not to impose the view that it is wrong onto the rest of society.

Innocence is not determined by law.

We are only guilty or not guilty.

If a life is threatening to the life of another, then terminating that life is defined by law as not murder.

No one wants to make murder legal.

Abortion is not legally murder.

The medical cost of birthing a baby in the US is between $6,000-12,000 dollars. The medical cost of terminating that birth before 12 weeks is somewhere between $75-1,200. Birth control is not infallible.

If you wish to reduce the number of abortion, which is admirable, addressing these issues would be more proactive in the endeavor to the cause.

If you wish to whine about something on the internet that you have no control over, I understand that.

And I'm happy to answer your questions as you appear to be most uninformed.

Well if they can't stay off of the men then kinda┐(´ー｀)┌

W**res are usually paid. The term is s**t. Which is applicable to any breathing adult who isn’t a prude.

An obvious stud.

No, I view women as women, I view w**res as w**res.

Doubtful you view any women at all. Incels have to incel.