If the pandemic is ever stopped will the left go back to condemning big pharma?

So true! It’s hilarious how they hate corporations yet are on the same side as the “woke” corporations catering to them and China.

By catering you mean putting up a rainbow flag for a month?

I mean millions in donations to BLM and CRT initiatives.

Oh I thought it was by black-listing conservatives content and applauding leftist content.

That too

I'm pretty sure we could keep going for like 10 replies deep with ways it's done 😂😆

50 deep

Balls deep?

If it worth hitting it’s worth the full measure.

Situational beliefs / ethics / morals on full display with libtards, as usual.

:0)

The Antifa call themselves "anarcho-communists" yet they support the vaccinate mandates which allow the government to force us to take products made by big pharma companies, that doesn't sound really "anarchist" or "anti-capitalist" to me. An Antifa member was charged with shooting anti vax passport protester https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u93Du1rmpso

Anarcho-communists are a contradiction in terms. The only "anarcho" part of that is the destruction of an existing government which is immediately followed by tyrannical Marxism.

The government forcing us to take a product make by big pharma is pure and simple fascism. There is no better definition of fascism than this. I am not saying that because of the name Antifa chose for themselves, I am saying that because this is what Mussolini would have done.

Quite right, in fact Hitler forced vaccines on the population of Germany and in Hitler's Germany and even North America racial minorities were used as human guinea pigs in vaccine trials like a horrific eugenics experiment. Even Black Lives Matter opposes New York Mayor Bill De Blasio's vaccine mandate as "racist and disrespectful".

Ironic, aren't they?
Upvote

That's overly simplistic. Big pharma's price gouging sucks. Their propensity for lobbying to stop efforts to prevent price gouging are pretty much evil.

However, it is the life saving nature of the drugs they produce that makes that price gouging so bad. In general, we all like the drugs they produce, we just don't like that the US pays more than anyone else for the same drugs.

Right now the US is paying flu shot prices for the vaccine. I'm sure they are going to price hike that as soon as they can.

Yeah, well.... It's a meme. Memes are always "overly simplistic". Besides this is the observation that I am making based on what I am seeing. The left has been complaining about big Pharma forever. But once the vaccine is out then it is all about forcing everyone to take the vaccine.

I don't know if they are price gouging or not. I just know that in other countries medicine is subsidized by their government. The people are still paying the same price, they just don't see it because the bulk of it is in their taxes.

I do know R&D takes a lot of money, non-productive overhead money. The productive money comes from the manufacture and sales of drugs. Plus the government has to get their hooks in that money and that drives the cost up also.

Free market competition without government intervention of any kind always benefits the consumer.

The cost of the vaccine is coming out of our paycheck in taxes. Once the government stops mandating vaccines then the pharmaceutical companies have no choice but to drop the price because of how resistant they are to this vaccine. It is all supply and demand. When there is no more demand then it doesn't how much of a supply there is, to get it out the door businesses have to drop the price as low as the can.

My point remains - our criticisms remain. There is no hypocrisy, because the criticism was never that they make evil drugs (opioids aside), it's that for life saving drugs, they over charge and it kills people.

Force? No force. Weekly tests or vaccine or quit your job. A choice.

Subsidized - maybe, but even say the total cost is higher. A lot of countries have government offices that negotiate a price with drug manufacturers and even decides if a drug should even be on the market. The US doesn't allow such negotiation and any safe drug can be marketed. Sometimes the pharmaceutical companies will make a new drug that is barely different from an older drug in order to reset the timer on the generic release. Other countries might say...wait, this isn't really useful. We don't need cool ranch Albuterol.

Fun read about research and dev - https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57126

Free market - no interference...so the FDA shouldn't test and approve drugs? Nah. Free market is good, but not unregulated. I know you are a member of the libertarian church, so I don't expect to budge you in that point.

I believe the current cost is between $30 and $39 per shot. Part of that should be because taxpayers funded the r&d. Flu vaccines are generally under $20 but some vaccines are over $100. I read that drug manufacturers are expecting this to be like the flu shot that everyone needs ever year. Seems right.

They have to lower the price... 😂 You should read up on some of the stuff big pharma does to stop that. Companies pay other companies not to make generics. Generic manufacturers have also been bought up, so there aren't that many of them. If you don't make a generic Viagra, I won't make a generic anticoagulant, deal?

Honestly, libertarian philosophy works at a town level. A restaurant over charges, another restaurant is opened. Competition. But the giant mega companies buy up smaller companies like the Borg. Sometimes to acquire innovation... Sometimes to stop competition.

They wouldn't have gotten that big if it was illegal to try to interfere with government.

Why not?

Because the law would have arrested them and they would have been broken up from antitrust lawsuits and injury lawsuits.

Antitrust? Isn't that government regulation and interference?

I never said the left complained about the drugs they produced. When it comes to private businesses there is only one thing the left complains about and that is greed. It is a blind hatred that people just agree on without even thinking about. I know because I've been there and I've done that. I just accepted what people told me without putting any thought into it.

The left, right and everyone else does that at some point in their live.

But greed is just one of many reasons why people will start a business. There are lots of reasons why the pharmaceutical industry charge exorbitant prices. Perhaps it is greed, but perhaps it is government intervention. Like that CBO article talking about R&D in the pharmaceutical industry. That scared the crap out of me. What does the Congressional Budget Office had to do with R&D in a private business??? The government must have a whole lot more control than I thought. That would be a valid reason for why drugs cost so much.

The FDA should be shut down. They are a waste of taxpayer money. They prevent a lot of drugs that have been thoroughly tested in foreign countries from being sold in America.

There should be a privately funded organizations that do the job that the FDA is supposed to do. We would be much better served if we had organizations like that.

Libertarian church?? LOL No, not a member. I've just attended a few of their services. Why should I budge on science. The science is settled, tree market economics has been shown repeatedly to be much better in the lives of the average person. And the main reason is because it is based on liberty. All other economic systems absolutely sucks. If you were paying attention you can see the economy beginning to fall to pieces because of creeping socialism.

"You should read up on some of the stuff big pharma does to stop that."

And there it is. This is exactly what my meme is about. The left complains about all of the shenanigans of big pharma and then when the vaccine becomes available they are big pharma's best friend.

"Honestly, libertarian philosophy works at a town level."

If by "libertarian philosophy" you mean free market economics they you would be both right and wrong. The free market does work at the town level AND it worlds at the planet level as well if you control freaks would just let it. It would change the world in ways that no Marxist could ever understand. The innovations and advancement in technology would be amazing.

There's a lot here... Let me know if I miss anything important.

CBO often does studies for Congress. Just because they do a study doesn't mean they have control. CBO well be asked to estimate the cost or savings of two policy choices. Or to give information on how much money is being spent in r&d. Big pharma does some horrible stuff. They also invent medicines that save many lives. The world isn't black and white. And it isn't hypocritical to make a decision based in evidence and a lot of scrutiny.

I do not believe that the government need that kind of information. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars. If a congressman wants to know about how a business does their R&D they should go visit that company on their off time and not at taxpayer's expense. But then getting a congressman to do anything without spending taxpayer money is worse than pulling teeth.

CBO Reports are generally pretty good actually.

The Budgetary Effects of Major Laws Enacted in Response to the 2020–2021 Coronavirus Pandemic, December 2020 and March 2021
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57343

I don't know why they needed it, but perhaps as part of the effort to fund warp speed

I am not doubting that the CBO is producing good reports on various parts of the economy but my question remains, why is it necessary? Why are we being taxed for these reports? Why are we spending any money at all when we are beyond flat broke. We are so far underwater in our national debt that if the government stopped all spending immediately it would still take about 5 generations of tax payers to pay off the debt. Spending started going out of control after Obama was elected. We have been spending recklessly ever since, and yes, that includes Trump.

Our debt to GDP ration is over 100% which means that the payments on our loans are more than the revenue the IRS collects from business and the people.

And then I find out from you that the CBO is producing reports on things like R&D at pharmaceutical businesses???? Just more wasted spending.

George W Bush actually. That giant jump in 2008 was the bailouts. The first fiscal year of a presidency is under the budget passed by the former president.

Not disagreeing on the spending thing, but just stop spending is overly simplistic. A restaurant trying to cut debt is going to be penny wise, pound foolish if they don't keep the lights on and paying for food.

CBO is reputable and give us the taxpayers edu care to read their reports an idea on how much something will really cost us. They might answer the question, what if we go full austerity, how would that affect our gdp? Maybe even ask for an analysis on three different austerity plans.

Or more simply, making uninformed decisions based on our gut isn't a good way to run a business or country.

Keep making shit up.

Facts to John: what I agree with politically regardless of facts that tell a different story.
Lies to John: what I disagree with politically regardless of the multiple layers of facts, statistics, and personal testimony.

Keep imagining.

I'm going to disagree with you there. There is a lot of lamenting the greed of the pharmaceutical industry.

Yeah, i can see the confusion. I think the meme is trying to equate the fiscal distrust and the vaccine endorsement as being a contradiction.

Yup. That's what I meant. There is a correlation. The government just gave big pharma a blank check for R&D and for production of the vaccine. Most of us didn't have to pay anything when we got the vaccine. But that blank check is going to severely bite us in the butt.

So when the left promotes getting the vaccine, even by force, it is feeding the greed of pharmaceutical industry. The same greed they have been protesting for as long as I can remember.

At this point we already paid the r&d. I don't see why pushing the vaccine would make that worse unless we are getting ripped off on it, and we aren't.

The difference is it isn't a pharmacy sitting on a drug copyright and bleeding us. The government paid a lot of money, but they spread it across several companies and got several vaccines. It isn't the first or last time the government will fund medical research.

For me, the difference is that the issue is greed and inequality. This time they aren't marking it up to maximize profit and leaving the poor, elderly, or uninsured in the cold. We are paying with our taxes, we have a seemingly fair negotiated price, and everyone who wants it can get it. That's actually why I want universal healthcare.

I think we are getting ripped off on the vaccine. It is only about 75%ish effective. That is no better than hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, favipiravir, corticosteroids or anticoagulants taken with aspirin. Most of these alternative treatments cost very little. But everyone was told to not use any of them and wait for the vaccine. So we waited. Then we got it. Then we were told to wear a face mask and social distance even though you are supposed to be able to fight off COVID-19 with the vaccine because that is what every other vaccine does.

The government funds far too much, like studies on why aging rabbits fur turns grey or why string, rope, electrical power cords, etc always get tangled. They do not need to be funding or propping up any business whatsoever. There is no such thing as "too big to fail". Failure is a good thing because then it lets though who can do it better have a chance to make it.

Greed is not the only factor for which a person starts a business. There are tons of reasons why they start up a business. Greed is just one reason and not a very good reason. In fact those who start up business for the sole goal of getting rich are the first ones to lose their business. Worse than greed is covetousness. Seeing someone who has a penny more than you and thinking you are entitled to take it from them. And using a very willing government to take that penny from them.

Bringing down the rich is never going to lift the poor out of poverty. The rich just do not have enough money. It isn't a question of feelings, it is a question of math. The rich, even the 1%, are just not rich enough.

Inequality is a good thing, I don't mean that in the sense of keeping certain people or groups down. I mean that inequality is what happens when people are free. The left thinks that equality is a virtue, it is not. It is slavery.

We are born equal but it is what we do with our lives after we are born that determines our success. If you take away the ability to determine your life then someone else does that for you. That is bad, very bad.

"Free people are never equal and equal people are never free" - unknown.

Freedom is more precious than life, yet the left seems so very willing to just throw theirs and my freedom out the door. Fighting against inequality is fighting for slavery.

Equality is the left - I'm not for equal distribution of wealth. More equal than now though. If you look at it as a scatter plot, I'd like to prevent extreme outliers. I work hard and am paid well. I've worked with people who I had to carry their weight. I deserve more than them. I've also worked with a few people who worked significantly harder than me. A girl I worked with smuggled her laptop into the hospital so she could work on a report after a surgery.

I've donated time by working a lot of hours I wasn't paid for, but I've never fought my doctor to work from the hospital.

Are you saying you want the government to step in and adjust people's pay based on how hard they work? How is that supposed to work? Is a government agent supposed to come in and monitor how hard people work? Then what? Are they supposed to notify management to adjust people's pay? And what happens if management is fine with the way things are?

What happens if your perception of how hard someone works is not the same as the level of work the actually accomplish? If the government agent sees something different then what you see then what? Do you quit?

What if the government agent's finding cost the business more than they can afford? Are they still suppose to pull money out of a magic hat to pay these higher salaries?

Better yet. Let's keep the government completely out of business. If you are no happy with your pay and think you are working harder than someone earning more than you, then it is your responsibility to bring that up with management. Either that or find another job. This system is called freedom of choice and it is far superior to government regulations.

Chill. I'm saying I don't want people to be posts the Dave amount. In the correct 3 system I think I'm paid fairly in relation to my coworkers. It wasn't always so, but I'm pretty happy at them moment.

I'm saying if you can afford to colonize Mars, you get taxed more, and there should be a strong social safety net to keep people from starving or people from losing everything in a medical bankruptcy.

Hmm... I guess my last post could be taken as angry. I'm not. I'm already chil. I was just asking questions. Nothing more.

I think the colonization of Mars should be a private venture. Taxation is ONLY valid when those who are taxed get a return on the money taken from them by force. In other words I will pay for a police force but I won't pay to colonize Mars. I get absolutely nothing out of people living on Mars but the police keep my neighborhood safe.

When you start talking about social safety nets then you get into cause and effect situation. The reason why they came into existence was to help the poor. So they forced everyone to pay into this system which in turn created more poor by taking their money away from them. That makes the net grow bigger which cost more and now more poor people are created because they have less money. So the net grows bigger.

Do you see where this is going? Eventually everyone is in that safety net and the whole system collapses.

Obama got us closer to that than any other president. He had just over half of the country living on some type of government assistance.

Nancy Pelosi told us back then that this was good for the economy. Pelosi wouldn't know what was good or bad for the economy if her life depended on it.

Mars a private venture - if the people who could afford it didn't lobby to keep taxes low, I would agree. But they do. Or they put in exceptions to make their pet projects tax deductible.

I'm not dismissing potential for safety net abuse, but the the way tax brackets work, people shouldn't be taxed into poverty.

I know the line about to many rides not enough rowers. I'm not looking for a post scarcity society.

Government assistance under Obama - we were coming out of a recession. A bad one. But a fair look at the economy shows that Trump only continued the trend already in play under Obama. I don't know that it would it wouldn't have continued under another president, or if Trump keep it going. The economy was in a bull market most of Obama's presidency and most of Trump's it was the longest in history. So, if nothing else Trump was at the helm during the later part of this record growth. It had to end sometime, but we won't know for sure what could have been if not for a pandemic.

75% if you average the three vaccines because two are +94% effective. The J&J brings the average down with it's 66%. However, rollout had favored the other two.

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Fighting against inequality is fighting for slavery. 😂

Hydroxychloroquine can be taken to prevent COVID, not just to treat it after your infected.

That's the problem with the left. They been so deeply indoctrinated with equality being a virtue they just cannot see the shackles they're putting on.

Equality can ONLY happen by force. It cannot happen naturally nor can it happen voluntarily.

The individual can treat people equally but those individuals would be looked at as lacking empathy.

The only equality we can ever hope to have is to be equally free. After that there must not be any other equality.

Source on HQC as a preventative? Because I just looked up two trials that showed no difference in transmission.

Y'all remember when the union army fought for slavery? Or when MLK matched for it? Those women's suffrage folks literally trying to enslave women?

You probably meant to say efforts to enforce equality beyond the removing of restrictions will lead to oppression. I disagree, but that is where I think you were actually trying to get to. I do believe that all laws can be used unjustly and we have to be vigilant in that regard, but it's a complex world out there and absolutes hardly ever manage to fit in all situations.

"Source on HQC as a preventative?"

Early on I watched a video of Dr Simone Gold explaining how she give HCQ to her patients prophylactically and that she saw a lot of success.

However, I just looked it up and found a bunch of websites all quoting the same study. That study says that HCQ has no affect on the prevention of COVID. So I don't know what to believe now.

"Y'all remember when the union army fought for slavery? Or when MLK matched for it? Those women's suffrage folks literally trying to enslave women?"

The union army fought because they were conscripted. Many people in the north were very apprehensive about freeing the slaves because they didn't want them coming north and taking their jobs. There were riots in New York because of the fear of freed slaves taking jobs. Many northern states passed laws that prohibited blacks from immigrating to their state.

The Union Army fought to hold the Republic together and not about any kind equality. Freeing the slaves was an afterthought. That is why the Emancipation Proclamation does not free all slaves, just the majority of them.

MLK Jr was not fighting for equality, he was fighting for freedom. He wanted blacks to be able to go and do everything that whites were doing. The Democrats had created all sorts of segregation laws that prevented blacks from exercising their rights and limited their freedom.

The same with women. They wanted to be free to vote.

"You probably meant to say efforts to enforce equality beyond the removing of restrictions will lead to oppression. I disagree, but that is where I think you were actually trying to get to. I do believe that all laws can be used unjustly and we have to be vigilant in that regard, but it's a complex world out there and absolutes hardly ever manage to fit in all situations."

What I meant is that I am opposed to the Marxist notion of equality of outcome. This idea that wealth and everything else must be equally redistributed so that there are no more rich. That can only happen by force. When those who produce everything have everything taken away from them they stop producing anything. So then the government has to step in and apply force to produce. That force to produce is evenly divided among the collective. The collective is given quotas that they much fulfill or they will be punished. Those who cannot produce are considered of no value and are exterminated.

This is the equality that the left is pushing for. It is slavery.

You think it's us?????

I've only seen leftists and the rare Libertarian complain about big pharma.

Because science denying faith healing vax rejecting Conservatives are so pro-pharma!

Fake news. Conservatives just check the science and find out its not really science just propaganda. Most conservatives don't depend on faith healing and only use it as a last resort (if at all).

Gosh, you are a gem, Russkie.

You are too paid leftists troll.

Is English that difficult of a language for you, Vlad?

Same tired playbook from you. Get some new material. Anyone who disagrees with you is a Russian.

SMH LOL

The left started the anti-vaccine movement 15 years ago. A bunch of rainbow colored hair folks...