They keep saying there was no voter fraud. However, someone like Joe Biden just doesn't win an election without voter fraud.

:0)

So they could potentially make new ballots. How is that a smoking gun? It's a paper ballot.

There is always potential for fraud, but did it happen?

Re-scanning paper ballots is a problem for sure but the voting machines don't even require a person to re-scan a ballot. A dishonest person can edit the data that was scanned from the ballot. They can back date that ballot, change who the person voted for and if the person didn't complete the ballot the poll worker can finish voting on that ballot.

It is a horrible system that was created with the intention of giving a candidate, a group of candidates or a political party a win. And there is absolutely no accountability. There is no way to compare a scanned ballot with the data in the machine.

In addition the machines are connected to the internet. This opens them up for hacking.

All in all these machines must be outlawed. They are awful.

Connected to the internet - that would be a huge problem. Source? Because if that were the case... There may be a caveat fur connecting it to update the software, but once the counting starts, they shouldn't be connected. At a minimum I would have the drives pulled and archived or backed up somehow after counting was complete.

There is no fullproof system. We do paper ballots because we don't trust fully electronic records abd we want to be able to hand count. Paper can be changed out or modified which is why we have chain of custody.

As far as someone could finish it for them - people may not have voted down ballot, but they voted for president. There may be exceptions but not many. I just looked Ave I dunt think they have it, bit it should have "none selected" as a box.

We come back again to an accusation of cheating though. Opportunity alone is not proof of a crime. It may be a place you want to look, but it isn't evidence in its own.

I'm a software developer. Writing the software to make everything auditable is not that hard. I would have never made the software editable. There is just no valid reason to allow the ballot data to be edited. That should be set in stone.

I don't remember if my ballot had a unique id of any type on it but if they don't have an id number then that should also be mandatory. The ballot can be anonymous like they have always have been but the ballot itself should have an id that the scanner would be able to read so that it can be linked data in the system.

Under no circumstance should anything ever be edited.

I agree with you that the only time the machines should be connected to the internet is after they have tabulated all of the data then they should connect and transmit. But everything I have ever read or heard said they were connected for the entire time the counting was happening.

I realize nearly everyone on the left and a few people on the right are convinced that there was no voter fraud but the evidence, the circumstances and just the logic all scream the opposite. When has someone like Joe Biden ever won a presidential election in the past.

Biden has never had a close relationship with the truth his whole life. He constantly just makes stuff up. He made a ton of racist statements. And now he is senile. And we are to believe that he go more votes than any other presidential candidate who has ever run for the office?

Either America has become massively stupid in the last few years or there was fraud and I refuse to believe that America had become stupid. I don't even think the Democrat party had gotten that stupid. I think there was election fraud in the Democrat primaries. I truly believe that Bernie Sanders won the presidential nomination and not by a small margin. Sanders was way more popular than Biden ever was. I think Sanders was more popular than Hillary was in 2016. But this is all just my opinion. I have nothing other than these voting machines being easily manipulated to prove there was fraud in those elections. Unlike the proof that is out there for the 2020 presidential election.

I am a network admin and do lots of IT support that includes network security and I fully agree with you. I specially like "I realize nearly everyone on the left and a few people on the right are convinced that there was no voter fraud but the evidence, the circumstances and just the logic all scream the opposite." and the thing is that an investigation can take years to even get close to how they got hacked and the damage done, and by that time Biden would have already done his damage.

I supported Sanders and it pained me when Biden won. He didn’t cheat though. He just had a better strategy. And the idea that a person as obviously virtuous and consistent lost to Biden sucks. It’s why I feel such empath toward the Trump supporters. But when I saw how Trump attacked on scary socialism... I’m not as convinced as I was that Bernie would have beaten Trump. It was actually one of Joe’s better moments at the debates- Trump attacked proposals that Joe wasn’t backing and Joe said “I think you forgot who you are on stage with.”

People will keep a president if things are going well even if they disagree with him almost like superstition. Well, given his 2020 went, I really don’t know how anyone can be surprised people were looking for change.

"Trump attacked proposals that Joe wasn’t backing and Joe said “I think you forgot who you are on stage with.”

Trump also attacked Biden on stuff that Biden actually did say several times and Biden said he never said those things.

Other than the worst barrage of political attacks against a president I have ever seen there was nothing in 2020 that any other president would have done differently. The left wants to blame Trump for the the pandemic in the US but a) our health is NOT the president's job and 2) Fauci and the left did more to cause harm than Trump ever did. Fauci lied about everything and the left fought every suggestion that Trump had made. Hydroxy hlorquine was saving lives but the left, even now, still insists that it doesn't work.

What the left did in the blue states was a disgrace. There was no excuse for causing hundreds of thousands of people to go out of business over a virus that is 99.4% survivable.

So the left was not in the good graces of the nation like they think they were. The left wing news kept trying to pin everything bad that ever happened on Trump all during 2020 but it didn't stick. Trump was extremely popular among Republicans and even some Democrats. I think Trump was more popular to the Republicans than Reagan was and Reagan won both elections in a landslide. There are a whole lot more conservatives in this nation than the left is ever willing to admit on their news networks.

Things he did say - well that went both ways, and definitely not in Trump's favor.

Hydroxychloroquine - it wasn't that they said it didn't work, they said there was no basis. The FDA gave it an emergency use authorization and after clinical trials found it inaffective they revoked that. If it had proven useful or wouldn't have changed the fact that he rushed to a conclusion.

Fauci lied about what? Being wrong or changing your mind with new data isn't lying.

I was actually shocked at the beginning when Trump sat up the COVID task force and started issuing sound guidance. I actually started questioning whether he might actually be doing a good job. Sure I disagreed with his policies, but I'd he is effective then he's effective... Then he started trying to play both sides and contradicting his own experts - either remove them or have their backs.

No other president could have done better- IDK. Nobody can know for sure, but we had more warning than most. We shouldn't rank where we do internationally as far as cases of deaths. So while I don't know for sure, pure numbers wise, we should have done better. Would the antimaskers and it's a hoax people have acted the same regardless? I don't know, but inconsistent messaging didn't help.

99.4% survivable? How do you arrive at that number?

News - you lump all news sites together when they vary quite a bit on quality of reporting. Fair or not though, he courted that antagonism. He leaned into the lying media line. Reporters are people and his constant attacks on them caused antagonism. I wish it weren't so, but can I really expect reporters to be more professional than the president?

Conservatives numbers vs liberals - Trump got a lot more votes than I expected, I'll grant your that.

Fauci told us masks didn't work. The very next day he said they did work. In his private emails he still claimed they didn't work.

He waffled on asypmtomatic transmission. He said COVID-19 would kill millions and privately said maybe 10,000.

"99.4% survivable? How do you arrive at that number?" It's simple math.

Well, when you are talking about slight nuances in reporting then I can see why you would say they are not all the same. But the overall message put out by the mainstream media is all the same and it is intentionally biased against the right and only getting more and more biased as the years go by.

It is the media who teaches the left to think that racism is worse today then at anytime in US History. If you include the racism practiced by the left then that is true but the right, all of the right believe in MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech. The left dumped his speech decades ago.

Fauci and masks - that's a loose interpretation and timeline. He said masks weren't very effective for healthy people Ave should be reserved for sick people. New recommendations were issued by the CDC when it became known that much of transmission was in people who weren't showing symptoms yet. At that point it became prudent to assume everyone might be sick. Which fauci explained wherever he discussed the policy change.

Do you really care not about being right than facts, because you can see the evolution of thoughts. You don't have to agree with the conclusion, but that's different from lying.

Was Trump lying when he said it would go away in summer or was he going by what he believed at the time?

%. When I do deaths / cases I get 1.8% fatal. What am I missing?

Msm isn't a unified group. I usually stick with the associated press myself. Every story ever written will have bias - people wrote the story and the facts are filtered through their beliefs. There are various media bias charts to help you choose, but in the end people need to learn to evaluate sources and to ready for facts while questioning conclusions. Looking to MSNBC which is the fox news of the left and saying it is representative of all media is false. Ignore which way they lean. You want media that actively tries to be unbiased. They will fail but in the attempt you get as close as you can get.

Fox news written articles are pretty sound. They sometimes come to conclusions I disagree with but are generally factual. They cite sources.

Nobody believes racism is worse today than before. We think it is still bad though. Racism in the left - racism isn't a left/right thing. Protests are in bigger cities. Cities trend blue. The only reason left/right comes into it is because conservatives have planted their flag on the idea that racism has been mostly addressed and cops are hardly ever at fault. the right seems to think changing your mind is a moral weakness. the people who think cops shouldn’t have fired on Babbitt who was forcing war through a barricade and the people who will look at any black shooting and say it’s because they didn’t listen/comply is lacking in basic empathy and self awareness. I wish they would have fired a warning shot for Babbitt. They could have pepper sprayed or tased her first...

I am personally at the point were any death by police should go to trial. Innocent until proven guilty so you have to make the case to a jury, not other cops.

I think that with technology today, legal voters should have a way to sign in using MFA and vote online rather than using systems that are very outdated and vulnerable. At least with MFA that secures the identity of the voter and legitimacy of the vote. You just have to worry about the security of the site people will log into to vote. But then again, guess is best to continue using insecure methods of voting which are hard to validate and easily compromised.

You think the anti-intellectual conspiracy theorists are going to trust something as abstract as a cryptographic hash? Public key certificates that would allow a digital signature are normally centrally managed and could be compromised. It would be more secure, but there is no system where you don't have to trust somebody. Where the votes aren't eventually aggregated and couldn't be compromised.

I had the 💡 last year of a system where you could vote from home. Download a voting app register for an account and vote. After voting a text would be sent to the phone number associated with your voter ID. You would then have to respond. Probably a mailer would me sect to your address on file and you have to enter a confirmation code from that or maybe go to the Post office abd show ID to be confirmed. If you can't do that, you vote in person.

Trustworthiness flags to help determine if further auditing required: GPS verification that you are at your registered address or in that country; voting history//voting against registered party affiliation, first time voter, etc.

But that was before I realized people don't care. people seem to really need it to be fraud. I get it. I remember that feeling of disbelief when Trump won last time. I gave people until inauguration day to go through the stages of grief, do whatever audited needed doing, and to come to terms. One failed coup later... My sympathy has worn thin. Facts don't seem to matter. It was stolen, they feel it in their hearts. So if one thing is disproven, they move on to the next conspiracy.

Again, the technology is there to make voting secure, they are not willing to use it because like you said, they need to be fraudulent and questionable. Else Democrats will not have a chance. Back when Trump won, Hilary was not gonna win, I knew American people will never put a woman in the position of leadership, VP seems to be as far as they will go, they have to have the old white man to represent them regardless democrat or republican, they will make an exception to put a black man, but another black man is not gonna happen for a very loooong time. I was not surprised about Trump's win at all, it was the expected result of a controlled fraudulent election. However, with Biden wining this year the damage is huge, because clearly he is a puppet, way much more damaging to the country than Trump.

Black//white//woman. - I think it depends on the candidate. Hillary got more of the popular vote, and she isn’t even likable. If Obama could have run a third term Trump would have lost.

The left uses voter suppression and the right claims massive fraud for the same reason - to stir up their base. That’s not to say either of those are impossible, but in find the rights to be more dangerous. If you think the other side of cheating, anything goes. Years of claiming massive voter fraud but no credible proof.

I learned more about the security of the elections around the country from this election than I knew before, and while there is obvious room for improvement, the safeguards in place have been sufficient to refute most conspiracy claims outright.

Is Biden a puppet? Maybe. Or maybe he just ran in order to beat Trump and at his age he is letting others handle the day to day. Trump was more damaging by far. Ignore the policy points - he trolled people. He wasn’t respectful of people who disagreed with him. Yes there are others who act the same but he was the President.

Lets break this down. Your basis of Trump being more damaging than Biden are, and from your own words:
"Ignore policy points" = which policies? You mean the ones hindering small to medium business? We need to go over lots of those polices and remove them to be honest, having too many policies is not good.
"trolled people" = I do not see how that is damaging to the country, maybe if the media was not so aggressive to him he would not lash back at them. This does not affect one bit how the country operates, this is TDS at its best.
"wasn’t respectful of people who disagreed with him" = he does not have to be, neither do you or me. Again, if media was not pursuing him so much maybe he would not lash back at them, respect goes both ways. He also showed us how dangerous media is, how powerful media is manipulating people. However this one also has 0 impact to how the country operates.

Biden however is more damaging because he is not fit to be a leader, not at his age and crumbling mind that can't put sentences together and has to have cards everywhere he goes being coached, look at the disaster he was at the G7. He has dementia, how will anyone in the right mind put him as a leader unless he is a puppet?! Biden is putting America last, again, giving money to other nations while making this country poorer, because it is our money being used. Biden also is pro inflation and pro-racial tension and division of the country, just like his daddy Obama. He is not doing anything to better the small to medium business in United states, nothing to better the school systems, or the families, or border crisis we currently have. At least Trump was building a wall to keep illegal immigration under control.

From your answers I can see that you suffer from TDS, you should go to the doctor and have that checked out. Two out of your three responses had absolutely NOTHING to do with damaging the country.

Would Obama running a 3rd time would have won, I really do believe that, however no way in hell I believe Biden is more popular than Obama and got more votes than any president in history. Obama was VERY electable, Biden is nowhere near Obama. If you can't process that. Well, sorry my friend.

Trolling people is dangerous because it is antagonistic. It is trying to make people look dumb, or to offend on purpose. Other people do it but the president shouldn't. I realize we live in polarized times, but the nicknames and insults weren't presidial.

Media is too powerful - they always have been and there is no way to fix it other than revoking the first amendment, which is unacceptable. That's why there are so many outlets and freedom of speech.

You usually win by exciting your base, and in that regard you are correct - Biden is about as exciting as steamed broccoli. But Trump managed to overcome that by being so polarizing and reminding us in daily tweets how he thinks and what he thinks of liberals. Biden staying home and not coming out was a strategy. Trump isn't a politician, he's an entertainer, and he thrives on attention. If Biden had engaged him more or made more statements Trump would have probably won. Instead Trump was left with no stage for his back and forth and beat himself.

So you now do agree that Biden is more dangerous to the nation than Trump?

Nope. I agree he's as exciting as boiled chicken. But Trump's joy in being decisive was dangerous to the spirit. while he may not made started it, his ongoing war on objective facts and willingness to call anything he didn't like fake news in effect made him unaccountable. And his climate policies are dangerous on a purely physical level.

Just a follow up. The elections would be 100% secure on a blockchain. It doesn't matter if you hack in and change data, it's immediately seen as altered data and rejected by the network of servers.

feelings are just feelings, and you are out of logic. And I thought I was talking to someone reasonable.

My opinions, not my feelings. There's a difference between not worrying about an individuals feelings and noting that someone is intentionally driving the wedge deeper.

And calling things lies as the default? That isn't a feeling thing.

Um, the machines just count paper ballots which are preserved just in case a hand recount is wanted.

Um you do know that they are computers with monitors and keyboards for the poll workers to operate them. They aren't just scanners.

And the paper ballots are still there.

You are not telling me anything I don't know.

Which means the auditors can also manipulate information.

No one is supposed to be able to manipulate the information because that opens up the whole process to criticism. The fact that this was the most contested election and still is, in modern history, at the same time these machines were put into service on a wide scale, adds to the skepticism about what actually happened.

Trump added to the scepticism of what happened, BEFORE it happened.
"The only way I can loose is if they cheat"... -Donald Trump, October 2020

WTF is scepticism?

Skepticism spelled wrong, I guess ? Do you think I should take the Montreal test because of it ? 😂

Nah but Grammar Nazis might throw you into the furnace. Get on in! It’s nice and warmed up.

Doesn't matter. What matters is public perception. Democrats flooded states over 6 months prior to the election to get election laws changed without writing in protections for the integrity of the vote. It was suspect and called out by many more than Trump...he was only echoing those sentiments, which is all the MSM concentrated on, ignoring the fact that Democrats claimed the exact same thing in every election they lose. Trump's claim wouldn't mean anything post-election if it wasn't for all the shenanigans taking place before, during, and after which only lent credence to his words. Ignoring pundants and just looking at all the discrepancies during this last election is all it takes to sway the public's trust in our voting system. Had Trump won...and these inconsistencies were skewed in his favor, the conversation would still be 24/7 on every news channel, again claiming that he was an illigitamate president, with investigations going on at every possible level. No doubt.

Only a fool or a newb could look at this election and say it was just like all the others. It wasn’t. It was a steal and n m anipulation and illegal meddling were wide spread in the media and certain regions.

Your way of saying that voting was made easier because, you know, there's a pandemic.

I doubt it. Most of the fraudulent claims are easily disproven and the discrepancies explained. Sure! They’d be reporting the discrepancies and talking about them until maybe Janurary. By now, Trump would’ve been on his 150th controversial tweet of the year and the media would be covering THAT instead.

If they were convincingly disproven or explained half the nation would not still be in denial. It may come as a surprise to some, but most Republicans don't know or care anything about Q'anon or any of the other conspiratorial nonsense Democrats seem to think they follow. The last poll I saw put 58% of the public believing something major went on. That's not a very good job of explaining. Essentially, Democrats are the only ones buying the fact that they didn't cheat on some level. Independents and Libertarians are leaning toward the fraud on this. Democrats fighting audits only adds fuel to the fire.

But they were convincingly and factually disproven, and you reality haters are nowhere near half.

It’s more a surprise to me that half the nation is in denial that Trump lost. From my understanding most people have moved on. “Something major” is broad enough to mean anything. Of course it was major. There was a large voter turnout! An incumbent lost! These are not minor things if you’ve been alive for the past 30 years.

Certainly Republican senators and representatives, both federal and local certainly have moved on. Until it’s brought to court, nothing is going to be done about the 2020 election results, and even then it’d be a long shot if real proof was made public. It would just reinforce, and may still without evidence, the additional safeguards of future elections but nothing else. Biden (or if necessary a Democrat proxy) is going to remain in office for the next three and half years at least.

Republicans who hold office and are keeping to discussing the issues (and voter integrity) are the ones who are going to remain in office far longer than the conspiracy peddling ones because all it will do is reinforce that voting doesn’t matter among their populous and give Democrats more votes.

Not a fan of that, personally.

Call me old fashioned, but I’d rather the candidate that appeals to the locals win. Not people who win on technicalities. But those who win on technicalities don’t stay in office long.

A good example of that is Donald Trump, ironically.

"But those who win on technicalities don’t stay in office long.

A good example of that is Donald Trump, ironically."

A good example of a conspiracy theory not dying despite having been investigated and argued in court. lol

Personally not a fan of "overturning" an election this far out, but there's no way to litigate a suspect election between election day and inauguration, as can be demonstrated using any sizeable case brought before a court. It takes too much time to build a case that can demonstrate standing, which is what happened in most of the court cases Trump lost. But, following that debacle, states are rushing to change their laws so that implementing safeguards against fraud can be completed prior to the next.

I will agree with the conspiracy nuts costing elections. I believe that is what happened in Georgia with the Senate runoff. A lot of voters were turned off by the rhetoric and just didn't bother to show up...after being told their votes wouldn't be counted fairly 24/7 by nutjobs that continually stoke these flames. And then, there's Trump himself, his own worst enemy. A change in his demeanor at any point in the presidency would have solidified his re-election...maybe.

“A good example of a conspiracy theory not dying despite having been investigated and argued in court. lol“

Talking about Trump losing the popular vote rather than Russian collusion for clarification. A technical win is still a legitimate win. Biden and Trump legitimately won their elections. Most liberals would not have contested that in 2017. The name of the game then was impeachment. As I inferred, even if the Republican Party succeeded in finding enough fraud that could overturn the election, there is no precedent to remove Biden unless they could establish a link between those responsible and Biden. Again, very unlikely on all fronts.

But I’m glad you at least agree that the Georgia election was a result of people crying voter fraud. And no doubt Democrats winning there only reinforced that idea. I’ve been trying to get people to realize this with little to mo success.

I respectfully disagree on there being zero chances to overturn an election between election to Inauguration Day. It is entirely possible! Had any of the claims made public had any legal validity, then the results could’ve been overturned. But there was just no physical evidence to back those claims. And the only way they could get what they wanted was through hand recounts of paper ballots which, for the most part, Trump got that and still lost as those were also counted in each state! Contested or not.

Can we have sources?

Find it yourself.

Aka typical Qtard Bullshit.

What Abby_Normal said. If I could find it then so can you. It's not that hard.

Oh that’s hate speech. You must be punished ya lefty hypocrite.

Seriously? We all have the internet. I get real tired of people asking me for sources when I found the story on the exact same internet that everyone else has. Do your own research.

I've previously seen the actual story, and your meme is BS.

Sure you have.