If you're that afraid, protect yourself. Don't force it on everyone else.

For who, the dead baby?

And even if that were true, why is planned parenthood government funded?

hey bud; don't tell me all trumptards are vegetarian.

"Eating chicken is a personal choice"
"FoR wHo, ThE DeAd ChIcKeN?"

Chickens are not humans

its not a human either
ITS A FETUS

You're not human either, you're just a more developed clump of cells

aight man look, abortion is the women's choice to not have an unborn child. i don't see how that's any different for a person to not eat non vegetarian food.

I understand that y'all think think it's her right, but that's not just some dog or bird she's carrying, that's a human child. She doesn't have the right to end that child's life, no more than someone has the right to end her life

Most evolutionary biologists distinguish one species from another based on reproductivity: members of different species either won't or can't mate with one another, or, if they do, the resulting offspring are often sterile, unviable, or suffer some other sort of reduced fitness.

k?

ITS NOT EVEN BORN YET BUD

And? Why does that make it not human? It's human by DNA, it's just at a different stage if development

? then everything is bud

thats not how it works, you distinguish living thing other ways

You mean if something has human DNA, it's human?

well that human child she is carrying has no right to ruin her life

That child made not choice to ruin her life
and regardless, why are you trying to rationalize murder?

Speaking as a woman who at one point in my life went through a breast cancer scare (while very low on finances), I know for a fact PP doesn't give a rat's *ss about providing women's healthcare. Thank the goddess for the charitable care of a sympathetic private physician! PP was admittedly at the time only providing birth control and performing abortions. And I have seen nothing since which convinces me they have broadened their priorities.

Amen!!! Thanks for speaking up! :)

What a shame their brand of women's healthcare starts and ends at population control.

Good point. They should be expanded and given more money by the government to provide healthcare services which go beyond planning parenthood.
;P

Also disease control.

When, yes.

take the easy way out rather than facing responsibilities, spoken like a true libturd. You lost this argument with me before, wanna go at it again sweet cheeks? Abortion is killing more black people than anything else and you stand for it.

And IF.

right. if they don't want children, they have the right to not get pregnant in the first place.

They do have the right. Nobody is forcing them to get pregnant - except in the case of rape which should be treated as a rare exception.

I thought it was a personal choice? Why is my money going to it if it's a personal choice that I don't agree with?

Cool, then you wouldn't mind if the government gave money directly to churches as long as the churches only used that money for schooling and improving the community, right?

Neither does Planned Parenthood.
So, by your own logic, they are getting tax money to perform abortions.

Where do you think the government gets it's money?

Oh boy...

You see, the money the government spends has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is taxes. Now, taxes come from the taxpayer, meaning that the money the government spends comes from taxpayers :)

Yea, it funds things like administrative fees, facilities, utilities, etc . . . so the money that would normally be spent on those things can be used for abortions.

There's no effective difference in our eyes. You have to understand that pro-life folks consider abortion to be genocide. You saying that their money, "doesn't go to fund abortions" is like telling an ethically conscious German in the Third Reich that their taxpayer Marks didn't go to gas Jews. No, they technically don't, but they DO go to fund the same entity that facilitates said exterminations.

Ok? It funds the rest of it, meaning they have more money to fund the abortions

All she can do is repeat her mantras. She can't actually think or reason.

But for all intents and purposes, it does

LOL

Money is fungible. Your excuses are a pathetic fig leaf. You lie like a lying w**re.

plot twist: i'm a woman

Nope, the baby's life comes first.

That says a lot.

Bud, lookie here. The baby hasn't really even been brought into existence. The woman has a life too, so if we have a choice, the women should decide if she wants a baby

If the baby hasn't been brought into existence, then you're not pregnant.

The woman decided when she had unprotected sex. If she doesn't want the baby, adopt him/her out.

abortion isn't murder, the person we "kill" is a fetus, unborn.

and don't go saying "oOoOoOh ITS STILL ALIVE" because then all trump supporters are vegetarian cuz they dont wanna kill anything alive, so they wont eat anything

It's still a baby and it's still alive. Absolute fact of reality. The end. No room for debate or discussion.

the baby's life comes first
even if the mother's life is ruined

equality, am i right?

You think hardship is a good reason to murder?

"No, the pregnant woman. Her choice comes first."

how do feelings come before human life?

no they don't

that thing isn't human yet; it's a go***mn fetus

if it's not human, then what is it? a spider? a horse? a frog?

it's a human fetus

you can tell someone not to murder someone else

"It's not a baby in the first trimester."

it's a baby from the zygote

Then maybe all men should start wearing condoms with women that they don't want to marry and have a family with. Or they should refrain from having sex at all. Women don't get pregnant on their own.

great idea! spread the word!

I TOLD YOU WHAT IT IS IDIOT

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a19748134/what-is-abortion/
maybe you should read this

i know what abortion is. it's killing an unborn child. it's murder no matter which way you phrase it.

READ THE ARTICLE BUB

NO

you can't read the article because you know you're wrong and don't wanna admit it

idiot

i see you no longer have any real arguements and are reduced to insults. that means i win.

read it?

of coarse not

also going by your logic "abortion is murder no matter which way you put it" then you're basically calling all non-vegetarians murderers for eating living animals or people who hunt livestock are murderers.

livestock aren't human. babies are human.

The glories of semantics.
It IS, however, human.

WE AGREE, DAMMIT!!!!!!

Justice would draw nothing. she is blind.

if you asked 100 people to draw a fish, how many would draw a goblin shark? most likely none. does that mean it's not a fish?

i care about science and morals, not drawings.

but the way we determine what is and isn't is through science and morality.

science: fetus have human DNA and are alive, therefore they're humans

morality: killing humans is bad

conclusion: abortion is bad

again: people's opinions don't dictate whether or not something is. science and morals do.

that's called prejudice

glad to know you're a proud supporter of the foundation of racism, sexism, etc.

i guess we should throw all that race/gender equality stuff out the window then

Your whole argument is critical and negative toward women. But where's the blame for the men who get all these women pregnant? Where's the responsibility for men who go around impregnating multiple women and leave them to deal with their children on their own? For every abortion there are single moms out there living up to their responsibility while the men are skipping out on them.

Do any of you care about these single moms struggling to take care of their children that they got left with by all these deadbeat men? Do you have any idea how many women get their kids taken away because they can't make it on their own? Do any of you "pro-lifers" give a sh*t what happens to these women or their kids, for that matter, once they leave the hospital?

"Your whole argument is critical and negative toward women."

no, it's critical and negative toward abortionists.

"Where's the responsibility for men who go around impregnating multiple women and leave them to deal with their children on their own?"

it's called child support

"For every abortion there are single moms out there living up to their responsibility while the men are skipping out on them."

still pretenting adoption doesn't exsist. as usual.

also, you sure talk a lot about supporting women's reproductive rights for someone who believes in decriminalizing the transfer of HIV and letting the rapists of girls 10+ not have to register a pedophile

cOmMuNiSm

bud man
everyone isnt the same, they have diff. reputation, diff. status, etc.

thats just life man

but should that status be based on things they can't help?

The woman made her choice when she decided to have sexual intercourse.

Not sure what your point is.

to be fair, in the case of rape then it's not really her choice, but it is still unjust to have it aborted. you don't get to steal someone else's car just because your car was stolen.

True, that’s why there could be exceptions for rape. But it should not be late-term.

"It doesn’t."

so then why should they have less rights than others? they can't help whether or not their mother was raped. they're a victim too.

Yes, but having to carry the baby of someone who raped you is very traumatic for the mother. Some people can handle it but some can’t and it can amplify the trauma if the rape victim to the point that they commit suicide. It’s on par with terminating a pregnancy to save the life of the mother.

"The difference is the rare case when the woman actually didn’t have a choice."

but how does that change whether or not the baby is alive

It doesn’t.

what's the difference? the baby is still alive no matter the situation.

The difference is the rare case when the woman actually didn’t have a choice.

...it's murder

Ahh, the patented,

"Abortion is not murder because it's legal,
and abortion is legal because it's not murder"

Pretty sound logic there, no arguing with that.

There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like pain because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so.

They can pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset people overmuch. (Jill Filipovic, lawyer and author of The H-Spot: The Feminist Pursuit of Happiness, has quite reasonably pointed out that, “There has been no concerted anti-abortion effort to demand research funding into why all of these fertilized eggs die, or to find a cure. Perhaps that’s because even the most active anti-abortion advocates know the truth is that a fertilized egg is not the same as a three-year-old, and they do not genuinely believe that it has the same right to life.”)

found this from an article

There are an exceedingly few humans that can live on their own, providing they can make themselves clothing, shelter, and fire in short order, as even people in the tropics require such lest they die of exposure or disease as a consequence of. Same with food, and those rare few require the quick making of tools or they will starve.

Pound for pound humans are the weakest creatures on Earth - even a worm can push through dirt with its soft body, as can the tiniest seedling. Try that without gloves and a trowel, and a person'll be bleeding within a few inches of making a scrape.

But even within the airconditioned, food and provisions for cheap, protected mega societies most people live in, humans have the longest childhood of any animals, and the weakest offspring - call it an infant, baby, or whatever silly title sematics offer to convenience an argument - this side of bee larvae. Even marsupial offspring who are born far less developed than placentals can climb from birth canal into the pouch and to a teat.
Have mommy unplug the cell phone and not bring any Hotpockets upstairs and Jr won't make it through the night.

So that nils the "unsupported" argument save for some hunter gatherers still in the Kahlahari or Amazon who still require fire, tools, and donated American tee shirts.

As for pain, fact is human not-yet-baby-thingiez at an early stage DO respond to such stimuli in a manner that adults respond to pain - remember, not too long ago infants "did not" feel pain so required no anesthesia for medical procedures, nor did the insane, as well as woman and slaves, and, well, anything that wasn't a property owning English speaking Protestant male.

Regardless, pain is nothing more than a reactive sensation to potentially dangerous threats as they get too close, and in the case of abortions - feel it or not here it comes - to its most lethal end. Cloroform used while murdering exonerates murderers said no one ever, save a serial killer or three...

Most spontaneous abortions, or miscarriages, occur in the earlier stages of development and thus often without anyone aware. In cases that they are, measures are taken to prevent them.
Diethylstilbestrol was prescribed to prevent them till that was discontinued in 1971 due to various health issues including cancer and even miscarriages, plus it didn't even work.
It seems Jill Filipovic is too young to have heard of this.

No one is pretending a fertilized egg is a human, it IS, hence why abortions are done.

Right, so if we got the law changed, your argument would be gone. You have no moral argument, just the force of law, that is a man with a gun.

A man with a gun, that's a great metaphor for a guy who gets a woman pregnant and leaves her to deal with the consequences.

Unless you’re talking about rape, which the great majority of abortions *aren’t*, she had a choice too. She has responsibility too.

By the way, really loving this thread so far...

everything Hitler did was legal

Actually that's YOUR opinion.
Hitler murdered a helluva lot more than Jews.

Yes, but the point is that every evil thing Hitler did was not illegal, and that didn’t make it all right.

Never mind me, I was just being a stickler for details.
I see the point you were making, and it's a valid one.

way to miss the point

Wait, but if it was legal in Germany, why do you have a problem with it?

So what exactly does it being legal have to do with it being a 'woman's right'

legal does not equal a right and rights are not always considered legal

If you're going to try and justify it as a woman's right, then stick to that and quit falling back on "cause it's legal"

So why did you just bring them up like they're the same thing?!

' "So why do you keep trying to justify abortion just cause it's legal?"

Because it's a woman's right '

So why do you keep trying to justify abortion just cause it's legal?

Then why don't you explain how it's not murder without resorting to "the government says so"?

"On your opinion. Not legally."
right

But that's YOUR opinion, and you can't just use "it's legal" to justify it. That's all I'm trying to say.

But your only argument is "it's legal". Well, it used to be legal to own slaves. I guess it wasn't immoral then, according to your standards.

Are you suggesting we kill all Trump supporters via starvation?

That's the great thing about turning a country communist. Whatever meager amount of food is left you can just keep it for yourself and let everyone starve. For the people!

Yeah! It's for the working class's good!