Some socialists are more equal than others.

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lol

If you are trying to defend socialism or show its "merits" that is called a red herring argument. Why would people want to exchange one oppressive system for another? Answer:greed. I agree that capitalists (Americans in particular) try to hide the bad things that go on in our system. That doesn't negate the positives of our system especially when compared to socialism.

Before you attempt to argue against "social mobility," it is an "offer" you can take the offer and work towards the goal. Not to say there are no obstacles in your way that you will have to overcome, there are and there are those who were "disadvantaged" who overcame those obstacles and prospered socially/economically. Whereas, in socialists political/economic systems there is very little social mobility offered.

you portray the extreme ends and I would not want to live in the socialism you talk about, and who would? There is no dialogue to be had as you are so polarised.

It's a common occurrence with Americans, I've noticed.
It seems that any situation has to be 100% black or 100% white, with little (if any) space for nuance.. The conversation isn't usually worth bothering with (in my experience).
Live and let live because lifes too short for such pointless conversations..

so true.

*ignoring the fact that this is basically what we have right now under capitalism*

No, what we have right now is socialism for Big Business masquerading as capitalism.

I’m other words: Capitalism.

Not really. In a truly free market, there'd be no bailouts, no subsidies, nothing for Big Business. Businesses big and small would succeed or fail entirely on their own merits.
Besides, in practice, the choice of economic system doesn't matter. Capitalism and socialism both can be corrupted.

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You are ignoring the fact that in socialists economies the only businesses that thrive are the ones that cater to the leftist politics. The support the "party" so they thrive. The average citizen is kept docile with handouts, kind of like the welfare state in capitalist America to the tenth power.

Nice

I'm not mad them for it, I want other people who are not politicians nor "party members" to be able to rise to level if they so desire and are willing to work for it.

The American dream is a farce perpetuated by those in power to keep the worker bees plugging along and consuming... 70% of those born in poverty will never rise to middle class. The US has less economic mobility than Canada and the majority of Western Europe. 'Murica - f*ck yeah!

So, what is your point?
Do you even have a point?
Is there less economic and social mobility in America because our welfare state is not as large as that of those countries, and we actually expect people to work to get out of "poverty" and into the middle class?

Dude, I was responding to your big boast about the pool boy being able to someday have a pool house the size of Donald's and in reality, the slim chance of that happening...Good Lord...The dimentia is real up in here...

So you concede that the pool boy "could" be rich one day? Slim chance is still a chance.
"But he would have to work his @$$ off to be in that slim 30% and that's just not fare. It is a farce so why should he even try!"

Even if he works his ass off he might not get the 30%. What's wrong with trying to increase your chances? It's stupid to equate communism and democratic socialism when capitalism keeps politicians nice and fat by writing whatever laws they businesses want.

Do you suggest we give control of our economy to socialists in order for them to take control of the means of production/distribution AND steal more money from the rich in order to "distribute" it to the poor?
The politicians will stay wealthy under capitalism or socialism, that's not going to change. I don't want the federal government to be in charge of the means of producing and distributing goods and other services, so I choose capitalism.
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Our economy has already been hijacked. The democratic socialist movement wants to take that control back. It's easy to stop corruption in our political system. You just make sure they don't have the money in the first place.

Also how about all of the capitalist countries that are failing? India, Hong Kong, Russia, Honduras, Somelia Nope, none of them are examples like Venezuela

What I really want you to understand is that corruption is not exclusive to either socialism or capitalism. What will determine success is how much of that corruption effects the systems intent. Once you diminish the factor of corruption, socialist policies kind of dominate across the board. And we'd still have a free market.

so you're actually talking about communism?

The politicians in Venezuela made bank. They are not starving or eating garbage or killing dogs in the streets to eat.
"Politicians" and/or "party members" fare well in socialists and/or communists countries.

In Venezuela, José Poorschmuck can't get toilet paper to wipe his ass, but Hugo Chavez's daughter is worth billions. But WE have "income inequality." [eyeroll]

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"But, but, but it's the fault of the new dictatorial leadership, not socialism."

Socialism and communism are just a matter of degree of the control over the individual. Very little separates them. Put another way, different flavor of the same shit sandwich.

and the extremists demanding one or the other are the only choices :(

Socalism, Communism....potato, pototo

reprocessed?

Bloody free market spellchecker

At least they can't see my bunker or crops.....lol

Well it would be pretty hard to stay off the grid in the bottom one.I'd rather live in a tent than that waste of resources personally...

the Bern has 3