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1,398 views • 79 upvotes • Made by anonymous 2 years ago in politics
105 Comments
Ma_Deuce
12 ups, 2y
Giantsquonk
10 ups, 2y, 2 replies
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
7 ups, 2y
warwingslover
5 ups, 2y
Also true
warwingslover
10 ups, 2y, 1 reply
100% fact check true
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 2 replies
Lol, how so?
warwingslover
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
they wish that Trump was the US president
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
What would he do differently, exactly?
warwingslover
1 up, 2y, 2 replies
Actually try to stop Russia, not fund their war
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
So you want Trump to be a pro-war president?
warwingslover
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
That is not what I said.
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Oh, sorry... I was under the assumption that would've been the label given to Biden if he went to war with Russia. I mean, this stream was saying that for a while...
warwingslover
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Biden is kinda pro war, tbh
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 2 replies
So, you're prepared for gas prices to go up even higher? Mmokay.
Ma_Deuce
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Why would gas prices go up higher if Trump were still president and the war in Ukraine had never happened?
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Covid.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y, 3 replies
Nope. Under Trump the futures market of oil and domestic production was up. Keystone Pipeline kept investors knowing there would be more oil. Fracking on Government land was occuring as well.

Biden cut those out of the picture and moved the oil we obtained from them, to Russian provided oil.

That means Biden is responsible for funding Russia to be able to invade.
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
Futures market? Okay, well... the current markets were down, and were down for most of Covid. Which now that things are getting back to normal... we're seeing a slight inflation adjustment which is definitely going to level out eventually.

The Keystone Pipeline isn't going to affect the amount of oil traded; but rather cost. (Because Truckers gotta eat too, yo. Something fewer of them would be doing with a pipeline.) As for Fracking, the only reason those lands are designated federal was to preserve wildlife; allowing fracking is counterintuitive to that otherwise it should be PRIVATELY owned.

And I checked. The US imports roughly 7% of it's stock from Russia while only buying 12% of Russia's export. That's not hardly enough to fund a war. 

https://theconversation.com/can-wealthy-nations-stop-buying-russian-oil-178008

Gas is up everywhere, not just the United States. How do you account for this?
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y
I'm talking about in the United States, where when you produce domestically, you regulate the price of oil yourself. Where you don't have to depend on foreign oil.

Where gas costs 1.49/gallon like it did. 

When you produce your own commodity, you don't have foreign influence dipping into the market for that commodity, thus is can be provided to your citizens cheaper.

I think you need to understand how many barrels of oil we grabbed in 2021. We purchased 227,484,000 barrels in 2021 from Russia. At an average price of $62.26 (way under the price it is today)... that's just shy of 15 Billion dollars.

So yes, it's more than enough to fund a war.
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
"I think you need to understand how many barrels of oil we grabbed in 2021. We purchased 227,484,000 barrels in 2021 from Russia. At an average price of $62.26 (way under the price it is today)... that's just shy of 15 Billion dollars.

So yes, it's more than enough to fund a war."

Eeeeeehh.. in American money, maybe. 15 Billion US dollars is something like 1.1 trillion Rubles. And China purches about twice as much as we do so, they gave something like 2.2 trillion. But I don't know what price Russia is selling to China so it could be way more than that or about the same. A quick search shows that China spent something like $146.9 billion (US value) on Russia, last year alone.

Now that is quite a lot of Rubles.

And the clear indicator as to whom is paying for this war.

And why China is conveniently sitting out the round of sanctions.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y
I don't disagree with that. Biggest group of people in the world, most densely populated region.... Yes, the definitely funded it more than we did.

My point though - is that our contribution alone was enough to fund it. Which is also true.

The difference though is that China is a communist dictatorship that commits genocide on the regular and still has slavery, so funding a war via purchasing power is almost expected. With the U.S.A. - we should be more accountable of what we are doing with our resources and whom we fund when we purchase outside of our own means.
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y
"Your point is off though. Putin had all the time, but none of the capability to invade the Ukraine while Trump was in office.

Putin didn't dare invade because he knew Trump wouldn't have put up with it. There also wouldn't have been billions of dollars in oil being purchased from Russia, which would have kept the ability to invade in check.

Biden being a weak leader - provided the perfect opportunity for Putin strategically. Biden being a weak leader with Oil Futures market - funded the invasion.

It absolutely would be a different situation because Putin wouldn't have been able to afford an invasion financially or economically."

Yet, in 2019, average wage was 800USD/month in Russia (after currency exchange.). COVID literally cut that in half. Then, the supply crisis put it to around 300 USD. Biden's sanctions followed by the joiint actions of the rest of the world has brought the Russian average wage to nearly 205USD monthly.

Imagine trying to feed a family on that for the working class in Russia. Russia cannot afford this war. They couldn't afford it before it began. Now, it cost them a third of the economy they had remaining.

Here's the 10year graph of how many rubles you cold get for one USD over the past ten years.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=RUB&view=10Y
warwingslover
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
They will skyrocket either way, but atleast there would be pressure on Russia with Trump.
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
No, not really. Trump would be doing exactly what we’re doing now. If not less.

Honestly, we don’t know what Trump would’ve done.

And neither does he. He hasn’t been very forth coming with that constructive criticism. Just that it wouldn’t happen under his watch.

That’d be like Obama saying that Covid wouldn’t have happened on his watch.

Assinine
Ma_Deuce
2 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Not a valid comparison, imo. The virus would likely have come out of China regardless of who was president. There could be an argument made that it would have been less likely had Trump been president, but only if China did it intentionally and then only less likely for the reason that even China didn't want to fcuk with America when Trump was POTUS.

But the war in Ukraine is entirely different than covid, because that's a policy issue. Or maybe a sanity issue with Putin? Although, there are some that are thinking because of covid, Putin has isolated himself from his top advisors and has gone just a little funny in the head, which could have contributed to the invasion.

All very confusing for sure...
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
"The virus would likely have come out of China regardless of who was president."

This is precisely my point. Russia would've invaded Ukraine regardless of whom was the US President.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y
Your point is off though. Putin had all the time, but none of the capability to invade the Ukraine while Trump was in office. 

Putin didn't dare invade because he knew Trump wouldn't have put up with it. There also wouldn't have been billions of dollars in oil being purchased from Russia, which would have kept the ability to invade in check.

Biden being a weak leader - provided the perfect opportunity for Putin strategically. Biden being a weak leader with Oil Futures market - funded the invasion.

It absolutely would be a different situation because Putin wouldn't have been able to afford an invasion financially or economically.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Trump is obviously Batman.
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Lex Luthor would be a more apt comparison. For one thing, Luthor actually became President and I somehow doubt Trump traipse around at night in spandex and cape; while training little boys to be his sidekicks. Not to mention all that insider trading and embezzling Bruce Wayne does. Yikes!
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y, 2 replies
Only in Presidential aspect. Everything is Batman or maybe even Captain America.
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Trump is the Penguin and I won't hear it any other way.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
1 up, 2y
Fair. Lol 😅
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Captain America?

No. Not in any stretch of the imagination as one of Cpt. America's values is political correctness.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Hellllooooo multiverse of madness... Our universes reality has a PC incorrect orange haired edition with no super powers.
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
He's no Captain America. More like Captain Twinkie: Unimpressive, orange on the outside with white underneath and easily replaceable.
LetsGo_Elect_Brandon_JR
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
Twinkies are irreplaceable - Zombieland has taught us this.
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
Cerebrophage
1 up, 2y
I would've added that twinkies are without substance, they'll never go away, and highly overrated.
Danzinger
9 ups, 2y
CarrickMcHwain
9 ups, 2y
Ukraine wanted Biden to win to cover up their scandals. They got Biden. Now the consequence.
thenukeman123
7 ups, 2y
Saint Trump Protector of Ukraine Upvote!
AmericanViking
6 ups, 2y, 2 replies
Let's address this objectively. Prior admin:

1. Sanctioned NS2

2. Ended treaties that Russia wanted us in (INF, OST)

3. Grew military

4. Annihilated Russian paramilitaries in Syria

5. Sent lethal aid to Ukraine early as 2017

6. Struck Syrian chem plants despite Russian presence https://t.co/wHN5pVt1G4

— John Noonan (@noonanjo) February 24, 2022
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y
1. Sanctioned NS2

Sanctions for the project began at the end of 2019 under Trump and ended sometime around 2021. However, this is largely unrelated to Russia's ambitions to invade Ukraine other than it has some financial benefits. THE NS2 is still being built and the project may now be shelved indefinitely as Russia's recent actions have made the other end of the benefiters of NS2, Germany, forced to pursue alternative fuels.

2. Ended treaties that Russia wanted us in (INF, OST)

Russia had already invalidated the INF treaty. Withdrawing from it only gives the US the edge to leverage a future Russian leader to reinstate the treaty. This hardly did anything to stop what Putin was already doing.

The OST treated was pulled out because Trump wanted to limit China's airspace despite Russia honoring this treaty. Because Trump was hoping to use the pullout as leverage against China, he basically gave the Russian's more opportunity by pulling out instead of just negotiating a separate treaty with China.

3. Grew military

Yes, he grew our military. Not Ukraine's. We can't move on Ukraine during the Russian invasion unless Russia strikes a NATO ally first.

4. Annihilated Russian paramilitaries in Syria

Has nothing to do with Ukraine and while it is a disadvantage to the Russian's I fail to see how it would've prevented the invasion now.

5. Sent lethal aid to Ukraine early as 2017

This has something to do with Ukraine! However, in September of 2019, Trump threatened to pull this aid as he wanted to use it for leverage against Zelensky for any incriminating evidence his government may have. As these matters concerned political espionage, utilizing an existing officer's power over a foreign one, and had no meaningful basis for using that power other than for personal gain; this action would've completely negated any good will Trump built up in defense of Ukraine. Indeed, if he weren't caught by White House correspondence, this would've left Ukraine open for an even earlier invasion.

6. Struck Syrian chem plants despite Russian presence

Has nothing to do with Ukraine and while it is a disadvantage to the Russian's I fail to see how it would've prevented the invasion now.

Yes, many of these are a blow to Russia but the fact of the matter is, Russia still invaded despite these efforts. So they did nothing!
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Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
AmericanViking
3 ups, 2y, 1 reply
LOL... so you lied again... got it...
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
Or you could elaborate your points instead of just calling me a liar. Since you cannot, I suppose you cannot argue against my point so it stands.
AmericanViking
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
You are the one who said you were not going to comment back anymore to me.... so that makes you a liar... liar
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
What I actually said.

imgflip.com/i/66nk05#com17528108

The caveat being that you have something relevant to say. If you did not expect me to reply to you, then by your own admission, you think you’ve not said anything relevant.

And since you cannot defend your position of me being a liar, when I have not, I have no choice but to conclude that my assessment is correct despite your inaccurate accusation.
AmericanViking
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
So you admit to lying... thanks... so that makes anything you say not to be believed...
Gumshoe
1 up, 2y, 1 reply
If I admitted I was lying, I would not say your accusation was inaccurate. But I did, so I admitted nothing.
AmericanViking
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
"But I did, "

yup... thanks for admitting you lied... again...
Gumshoe
0 ups, 2y, 1 reply
And you continue to fail to explain how any of that helped Ukraine today besides the aid to Ukraine. Aid he threatened to take away.

1. Sanctioned NS2

Sanctions for the project began at the end of 2019 under Trump and ended sometime around 2021. However, this is largely unrelated to Russia's ambitions to invade Ukraine other than it has some financial benefits. THE NS2 is still being built and the project may now be shelved indefinitely as Russia's recent actions have made the other end of the benefiters of NS2, Germany, forced to pursue alternative fuels. 

2. Ended treaties that Russia wanted us in (INF, OST)

Russia had already invalidated the INF treaty. Withdrawing from it only gives the US the edge to leverage a future Russian leader to reinstate the treaty. This hardly did anything to stop what Putin was already doing.

The OST treated was pulled out because Trump wanted to limit China's airspace despite Russia honoring this treaty. Because Trump was hoping to use the pullout as leverage against China, he basically gave the Russian's more opportunity by pulling out instead of just negotiating a separate treaty with China.

3. Grew military

Yes, he grew our military. Not Ukraine's. We can't move on Ukraine during the Russian invasion unless Russia strikes a NATO ally first.

4. Annihilated Russian paramilitaries in Syria

Has nothing to do with Ukraine and while it is a disadvantage to the Russian's I fail to see how it would've prevented the invasion now.

5. Sent lethal aid to Ukraine early as 2017

This has something to do with Ukraine! However, in September of 2019, Trump threatened to pull this aid as he wanted to use it for leverage against Zelensky for any incriminating evidence his government may have. As these matters concerned political espionage, utilizing an existing officer's power over a foreign one, and had no meaningful basis for using that power other than for personal gain; this action would've completely negated any good will Trump built up in defense of Ukraine. Indeed, if he weren't caught by White House correspondence, this would've left Ukraine open for an even earlier invasion.

6. Struck Syrian chem plants despite Russian presence 

Has nothing to do with Ukraine and while it is a disadvantage to the Russian's I fail to see how it would've prevented the invasion now.

Yes, many of these are a blow to Russia but the fact of the matter is, Russia still invaded despite these efforts. So they did nothing!
Jesus_Christ_Super_Star
0 ups, 2y
Relax, whenever this guy gets owned in an argument he just resorts on calling you a liar. I'm currently involved in one such situation with him right now. I just find new ways to say he's wrong. /shrug.
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