The Loud Lunatics That Want To Control Us

That small amount of loud lunatics is winning. By a lot.

That's because the small amount of loud lunatics are useful idiots that are overtly backed by endless corporations, media, political and legal officials who are intent on using them to push their own agenda.

They'll get f****d over too eventually, but it is of small consolation as we're getting f*****d over now..

Yes. All that.

And Joe Biden supporters are fictional, what's your point?

Biden’s supporters are dead.

I almost feel sorry for you....

“Says the idiot who wants us to wear masks in our own home”

Pretty sure this untrue but want you to verify.

i will, the meme he commented is about 2 or 3 weeks old, but i still might be able to find it

Says the idiot who wants us to wear masks in our own home

It would be nice if Trumpers could stop being so damn selfish and think about what's good for their fellow Americans. But hey, if you want to risk your life and the lives of those around you, what can I do about that? TBH, IDGAF what you do. On that front, though, how does it feel to have people judge you by what you do in the privacy of your own home? Sound familiar?

But that's beside the fact that Trumpers are so dumb you still think there were over a million dead people who voted for Biden in this election. Is it really that hard to think that there just might be more people in this country who think Trump sucks than white supremos who don't care how bad he is at his job and worship the turf he golfs on?

he said it himself

He meant inside like yourself.

losing? I guess you didn't see what happened to your house majority, eh? We may have lost the presidency but you guys are losing seats in dem strongholds. We can revisit this in 2022 and see if we're still losing :)

Don't worry. Dominion will fix the kinks for next time. 2 years from now you'll be seeing a full 435 member Democrat congress.

Hah yeah. Republicans rn can’t see the forest for the trees.

They have entrenched themselves firmly with the Electoral College, a malapportioned Senate that grossly favors rural states, rampant gerrymandering of House districts, a federal judiciary stacked with Trump appointees from top to bottom thanks to McConnell denying Obama all his nominees for years.

Trump lost and it has them losing their minds but Republicans outperformed the polls and seem to have retained enough power to let them block Biden to their heart’s content, pending GA runoffs.

i agree.

You know people are not capable of critical thinking when they believe churches are solely responsible for the spread of covid. Never mind all the protests, fast food drive throughs, and crowded grocery stores.

It's still a violation of the First Amendment for the government to shut down places of worship

“Yes, it does have a higher mortality rate than the average flu, but not by that much. This isn't the Spanish flu where there was around a 10% mortality rate or the plague.”

Some more statistics as this is not completely true.

What is true is that the world case fatality rate of Spanish Flu was 10%.

The world case fatality rate of seasonal Influenza is about 0.3%.

The world case fatality rate of Covid-19 is about 2%.

Making Covid-19 seven times as deadly as seasonal flu and Spanish Flu only being five times as deadly as Covid-19.

I would hardly call that “not by that much.”

“ Sources? I'm not seeing any of those numbers on the CDC website.”

Case fatality rate is calculated by number of deaths, divided by the number of cases, and
multiplied by one-hundred to get the percentage. Using the CDC numbers should give a fatality rate of 1.8%.

I retrieved the recovery rate from numbers from here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The numbers here come from a wide range of sources but from what I understand the most reliable sources, John Hoskins and the CDC are no longer tracking the recovered. I’ve not been able to determine the reason for this.

So the most true way to say is the recovery rate is less than the fatality rate, which fluctuates every day, week, and month. But I’m guessing it’s going to hit 2% in the US very soon meaning the recovery rate can only be estimated to be less than 98%.

I study these results daily and often more than most of the general public so I try to restrain myself when people make casual mistakes but given the daily deaths are averaging 2500+, I feel my urgency to correct necessary. There is just a lot of bad data and old data out there and most people don’t understand it.

I agree on younger politicians needing to serve now more than ever as there are men half my age who still barely understand technology. The best we can do is enact change at the local level. Presidential elections have reasonable limits that prevent this, of course.

Furthermore, I wish to apologize for reopening this comment chain. In my humble opinion, it is usually very rude to do so. There should always be exceptions to rules, of course. Since you asked me questions I felt compelled to answer. I’ll try to keep us from talking in circles. I don’t find it productive and I have a nasty habit of repeating myself. I have a nasty habit of repeating myself.

Thank you for the conversation thus far.

Hey, I appreciate a good discussion too. I like having my worldview challenged as that’s the only way I can either reaffirm my opinions or even change them. You got nothing to apologize for :)

They aren't completely shut down. Again, there are many alternative means to interact with the church besides in-person. And it's not exactly being shut down for no reason but rather due to a very real crisis with evidence to prove it necessary to shut one convention of worship for temporary means. If I'm not mistaken, when cases lowered, these restrictions were eased. With cases rising to over 2000+ deaths a day, it makes perfect sense to limit unnecessary person to person contact. In that case, the Church is not exempt.

The First Amendment isn’t null and void just because there’s a pandemic. All American citizens are entitled to their First Amendment right to peaceably assemble and the state governors like Cuomo, Newsom, and Whitmer can’t stop them without opening themselves up to lawsuits. They can ask people to follow their guidelines to help avert the spread of Covid and some people will listen, while others will ignore them. If a group of people want to congregate whether it be for religious worship, peaceful protest, or a pizza party, that’s their constitutional right, even if there’s a pandemic.

When I mention other things being ignored like protests, I am not saying they should be prohibited. I am just calling out the ones who single out certain things while ignoring other potential spreaders. And because of that I believe it is more about control rather than stopping a virus.

Gotta love the Bill of Rights, am I right?

And those lawsuits will have to prove that they targeted them specifically, otherwise they have no leg to stand on. Again, there are exceptions that should be made in a crisis.

Think of it like this, are people who’ve been quarantined due to a exposure of a deadly disease, being discriminated against for their right to religiously or publicly assemble? Or were they quarantine because they posed a potential danger to the public? Given the fact these lock down procedures are only to flatten the curve of new cases and deaths there is a reasonable concern for public safety that has nothing to do with subverting our first amendment rights.

I would think the right to life comes before the right to express one's self when one is pitted against the other. As in- the right to not be killed by someone else's deadly virus in a chain of several people later (should it finally get to me). Infected people are dying. They spread it to others and kill. The people they kill give it to others and kill!

I think there is a very good stress test for that very libertarian belief in freedom-

Here is it_

If you believe that, then please tell me this, then, that you are not cool with Texas trying to overturn the American election by telling other states how to conduct their business through an action in the SCOTUS? that would wag the dog by its tail.

Hypocritically, that runs directly counter to the long-held Republican belief that states, not the federal government, should have broad jurisdiction over how they conduct their own affairs.

Even greater than the first Amendment, I can't imagine a worse suppression of freedom, or the Constitutional rights of others, than the complete subversion of democracy itself.

Curious to hear your answer.

Here's the beauty of our system: If you're not comfortable participating in society, you're welcome to stay inside. You don't even have to make grocery store trips; Amazon, Instacart, and Walmart deliver right to your door. Nobody is forcing you to congregate with anyone. So why do you have a problem with people trying to enjoy life when people need something in life to enjoy? The depression and suicide rates are skyrocketing across the US due to lockdowns and restrictions. Humans are social creatures, we need other humans to interact with. We can't go on like this.

As for your Texas question, I live in one of the states getting sued. I see the evidence there may have been voter fraud and the state is refusing to investigate it. So if Texas wants to sue my state so that we can have a proper investigation, I'm all for it. We deserve a fair election and for all discrepancies to be investigated, especially in these hyperpolarized times.

And here is where that philosophy fails.

The people who are willing to participate in society, ignore all or most of the safety guidelines, can still be infected and not even know it and pass the virus on to individuals who are more susceptible. At first, we didn’t have an idea who was and wasn’t susceptible because it was new. And we’re nearing a year of studying the virus and still don’t really have a clear picture of why the virus targets individuals who don’t fall into the usual groups of those more susceptible. It is ten times more deadly than the flu. That should be enough to give anyone pause when it comes to reasonable and temporary precautions. The fact you think we can’t go on like this shows you’re in the mindset that these efforts to contain the virus are permanent. They aren’t. They weren’t permanent after May. They likely won’t continue after March when most of the susceptible people have had the vaccine.

By then we’ll be arguing about whether Joe Biden was replaced by a lookalike actor, Beedle Babies, and people’s right to refuse the Covid vaccine.

Which the answers will all be but people will continue debating them anyway... no, I don’t know what those are either, and sure, they should have that right; respectively.

Have you factored in the fact that most of the Covid deaths are people who are already on death's door? The people who are dying are those who would have died anyway, such as those in nursing homes due to old age or with complications such as cancer. If you are concerned about the virus, then quarantine. That's you taking responsibility for yourself. Locking up healthy people for a virus with a 99.75% survivability rate is downright idiotic, as is causing the suicide rate for young and healthy people to skyrocket to try and preserve the dead man walking. Also factor in that millions were put out of work directly or indirectly due to lockdowns, thus affecting their ability to put food on the table. Keeping people locked down makes absolutely no sense, even if you don't use the First Amendment argument.

"The fact you think we can’t go on like this shows you’re in the mindset that these efforts to contain the virus are permanent. They aren’t. They weren’t permanent after May. They likely won’t continue after March when most of the susceptible people have had the vaccine."

Here, we can see the fundamental difference between our worldviews. I don't know your story, so I don't know what you have experienced or seen, but based on your argument so far, I would guess that you trust the government. I don't trust them at all and for a very good personal reason I'd rather not get into. Also factor in that Democrat governors Cuomo and Whitmer put Covid infected people into nursing homes and the double standard between regular people doing their thing and the George Floyd protests/riots and I think you can understand where I'm coming from when I say I don't trust the government.

A lesson both Democrats and Republicans should learn.

Just as long as people remember there's nothing wrong with a little reform now and then ;)

Most. Not all. As I already stated:

“the virus targets individuals who don’t fall into the usual groups of those more susceptible”

For those who don’t fall into the usual groups, it’s still a gamble. And still twice as deadly as the flu.

Also the virus does not have a 99.75% survival rate.

According to the CDC, less than 98.1% have survived and that’s counting the active cases. When you remove the active case that brings the case survival rate down to 58.18% leaving almost 40.02% still struggling. And it is estimated that 5% of that percentage is in critical condition. Which is an estimate 320.4 thousand people in critical condition who didn’t think it would happen to them.

No, I don’t trust the government implicitly. I came from a country who begged for socialism as a temporary measure due to extreme economic hardship and that party was invaded by fascists who my country first cheered when they uprooted the previous regime until they cemented their power and boasted a strong economy as a reason to expand it. Forgive me if I do see parallels here but from a completely different perspective.

But when we didn’t trust the government either and that fear gave the fascists exactly what they wanted. A public majority that more than enabled them to take power even if it was in unprecedented measure after unprecedented measure.

If you think men who challenge the status quo are your ally and that anti-establishment leads to conservative control; then you don’t understand how a country loses its government to lesser men.

"For those who don’t fall into the usual groups, it’s still a gamble. And still twice as deadly as the flu."

Of course. Any time you catch an illness, it's a gamble whether you live or die. With Covid, it's a gamble most people are willing to take. Yes, it does have a higher mortality rate than the average flu, but not by that much. This isn't the Spanish flu where there was around a 10% mortality rate or the plague. Yet people are suffering from depression and unemployment because the government is keeping restrictions on "nonessential" businesses. Look, I don't want to see more deaths, but we're stuck between a rock and a hard place; there are no perfect answers. The best answer I can see is letting people get back to work so they can put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads while we work on getting out the vaccine.

"Also the virus does not have a 99.75% survival rate. etc..."

Sources? I'm not seeing any of those numbers on the CDC website.

Okay, I can understand your point of view then. Here's my counter: I think we can both agree we don't want fascism to arise in the US, that's a no-brainer right there. However, that doesn't mean we should keep the corrupt bureaucrats of both parties who care not one bit for you and me in power. That would be like sticking with a spouse who completely ignores you because you are worried you might wind up with someone with a penchant for domestic abuse. Sure, you may not have a black eye, but it's still a toxic relationship. We need leaders who will actually fight to make our system better and to lift people up, not just maintain the status quo. Donald Trump is, or at least is pretending to be, someone who is doing just that, hence why he is as popular as he is on the conservative side (we can argue all day whether he is or isn't this person). Compare that to Joe Biden who is as establishment and corrupt as can be. Joe Biden isn't going to fight for us and we all know it. At least Progressives like Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang actually seem to care about the average American, even if I disagree with their ideas. Even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as opposed to her as I am, is at least trying to shake things up to try and change things, for better or for worse.

Tl;dr we can't stick with the same old politicians who don't care about us. Let's get some fresh faces in the halls of Congress so we can work on creating a government for the people.

Let me get this straight...the government shouldn't tell the states how to protect its citizens from a deadly virus because it infringes on personal rights BUT it is okay for the State of Texas to tell other states how to conduct their elections and to infringe on the most fundamental personal right...the democratic right to vote, by throwing out their votes??

Read the court transcripts. There is no evidence of voter fraud and Trump lawyers haven't presented any to the courts because they fear being disbarred for lying- introducing debunked conspiracy theories and propaganda.

Also...

Texas has zero legal standing to challenge how other states conduct their elections. Elections -- including ones for federal offices -- are solely the purview of individual states. States set the hour that their polling places will be open. They decide whether or not a voter is required to show a form of legal identification in order to cast the ballot. They decide on what dates their primaries will be held. And yes, they get to decide -- as many states did in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic -- whether or not to expand mail-in balloting. It's also worth noting here that the Texas lawsuit runs directly counter to the long-held Republican belief that states, not the federal government, should have broad jurisdiction over how they conduct their own affairs.

Why should the "great state as Texas" have a say so on how other states administer their elections? Imagine if some other state told Texas how to conduct their state of affairs? They'd tell them to f*** off. Texas certified THEIR electors. So it is only fraud if Biden wins? But if Trump wins the votes are legal??

There is absolutely no legal or constitutional justification that gives the state of Texas standing to sue other states over the manner in which those states enforce (or refrain from enforcing) their laws. If Texas’s theory is right, then every state now has standing to sue every other state over the latter’s administration of its own laws in connection with its own citizens if it can articulate some collateral consequence that may affect the allegedly injured state in some way.

It's simple. Trump is unhappy he lost and has no qualms cheating, lying and stealing. The worst part is he is victim blaming, scapegoating the victims. Scapegoating is central to fascism.

I have a hard time believing the “Don’t Mess with Texas” State wants to live in the kinda of world you propose to create.

At this point, all I care about is the truth, since it's what we need most of all. Trump supporters aren't going to buy that Joe Biden won fairly if no investigation is conducted. Biden supporters aren't going to buy Trump won if he pulls off an upset. At this point, all we can do is push to make sure an investigation happens so that the American people can either be rest assured it was a clean election or have all the voting irregularities and improper procedures cleared up. Simply put, if Americans can't trust their own elections, then the US is doomed to fall apart as a nation. So in the best interest of keeping the nation unified, let's let cooler heads prevail and do an investigation.

It's simple deduction, Sherlock😉

There’s already been an investigation and it turned up nothing. Also there were in-depth recounts and hand audits which confirmed Biden’s win and were very consistent. Paper ballots don’t lie

Additional the SCOTUS already told the GOP they have NO case in their most recent ruling.What makes you think that to the fans from the bleacher the call should be any different? We don’t let fans call the game

If voters are to be accused of committing a felony, at the very minimum there should have been an attempt to contact these voters. There was no such attempt by the accusers. So the investigators did a fact check and contacted these voters and quickly the allegations by Trump and his supporters have fallen apart under scrutiny

People should only be investigated if there’s actual evidence of a crime. The US isn’t Russia...yet. Institutions and people deserves presumptions of innocence. Yet the Justice Dept.and others have investigated it, and even AG Barr said there’s no evidence, despite lies and spin to the contrary

The Maga cult doesnt really want an investigation.It simply wants Trump to overturn the election and wont stop until it gets their way

It’s not complicated.Trump and his supporters lost and this is a giant tantrum.Not accepting the outcome of a fair election is sedition and treason. Make no mistake- as the hand recounts proved, this was the most accurate and secured election in US history.It’s only unfair to Trump and his cult because their candidate lost.Not accepting an election because of sour grapes is anti-American and anti-democratic.Trying to undermine it with lies and deception is treason.Again,Trump’s own lawyers in court refuse to show evidence in court or make official accusations of fraud for fear of being disbarred - confessing that all the so-called witnesses are lying in their many affidavits or simply unreliable.Again,everything I said here is true, just read the public court transcripts.This info is not from the MSMmedia but Trump’s own lawyers.It’s all political theater meant to organize and provoke Trump’s massive following and cult into the next Civil war,and the battlelines are being drawn as we speak

Two reasons the Texas election case is faulty:flawed legal theory and statistical fallacy

The relief that the hypocritical State of Texas seeks would undermine a foundational premise of your federalist system:the idea that the States are sovereign, free to govern themselves

The SCOTUS just denied Trump's Texas lawsuit.

They REFUSED to even HEAR the case. That's how bad it was. That includes Trump's OWN Supreme court justices that he appointed. Certainly they can't be in on the fix? Because, the truth is, there was NEVER any "fix". The voter fraud stuff was a debunked conspiracy theory and they saw right through it.

It's over. Cue the fat lady...Trump's our bitch and he's fat. So cue him.

Fast food is mostly unhealthy, during a pandemic it might be wise to eat healthy so that one has a higher immune system. Sadly you don't hear much said about boosting one's immunity. They just say wear this flimsy mask and prohibit certain activities. But the things they pick on is miniscule in comparison to other things that is allowed. You can't have a get together for Thanksgiving but everyone can go out and shop during Black Friday.
I guess that is because it is beneficial to the economy. Haha, so it is all about the money with them.
You nailed it buddy!

I'm against all gatherings where people aren't masking and social distancing. But I can't blame people for fighting for what's right.

So when they don't wear masks and they don't social distance you are not going to blame them?

Calm down buddy, you might be getting the wrong impression of me. I am not saying they should be prohibited from protesting. But only a fool would say they do not contribute to the spread of covid. You can not have hundreds of people gathering and say it doesn't contribute to the spread. Not unless you are also saying covid isn't as serious as they say.

In Kentucky churches was told they couldn't gather, even if they was outside, and even if they followed the guidelines. Yet nothing was said about other gatherings. This is being biased and this biasedness does nothing to stop the spread of covid. It just restricts certain people of their liberty.
It is quite silly to tell a church with a dozen active members they can't gather or they will doom others to get covid while saying nothing of protesters spreading covid.
And don't act like all protesters are fighting for some grand cause. What was that one out in some state, something about a haircut? I don't hear of anything getting scrutinized like churches and to a lesser extent, small businesses. Again, I am not saying they shouldn't be allowed to protest. I am just calling out the hypocrites who blames one potential cause and ignore another.

A whole lot of face masks at these protests that were all outdoors. Much less Covid transmission than you might think.

Republicans drinking at bars all night and then waking up the next morning to go to an anti-masking protest and then a maskless Trump rally in the evening? Not so much

My point was that churches were never argued to be the sole spread as you exaggeratedly claimed. And yes, there are people who are attempting to compromise in the face of the virus and some of these compromises are simply not enough nor do they fall in line with the guidelines suggested by the CDC. However, just because other people are ignoring these measures doesn’t mean they are not important or that you don’t have to abide by them either. I believe there is a saying for such mentality. Something about a bridge, leaping off, and if you would too.

I agree that fast food is very unhealthy. Also very cheap and easy to get. Toilet paper was not the only commodity that was difficult to find. Even now I am scrambling for fresh produce and meat in my own local market because people are hoarding food. Not to mention that fast food also triggers dopamine. This reward encourages susceptible individuals to eat more unhealthy foods. Which, when you’re unable to see the people you want or do the things you want to do, I imagine many people turn to vices; and not just illegal ones, to cope with this rather depressing circumstances. So, no. I would not be too quick to judge.

You’d also be surprised how many people actually don’t know how to cook at all.

Where's the critical thinking going on with you dumbf*cks? Trump is the biggest liar on the planet and you boneheads believe everything that grifter says. Hillary has emails? Let's call Russia to hack them! Pizzagate? Let's go shoot up the place! Phantom laptop belonging to Biden's son? It's a game-changer! Dead people voting? Let's waste a bunch of money on lawsuits that are never going to go anywhere. Holy SCOTUS will save us! The only ones who are brainwashed are Trump's lemmings. Now go watch Laura Ingram, Judge Pyro and *ucker Carlson for more "real news."

I know it’s bizarre they just keep believing the idiocy. It’s like a big joke? Like an Andy Kauffman style huge elaborate prank? I thought flat earthers were a huge elaborate joke too. But now I know they, like the trump cult members are simply stupid.

You're right, you would have to be a moron to believe that churches are solely responsible for the spread of the virus. The virus isn't a hoax, it may be hyped up some but it is real. Unfortunately it is being treated by everyone as if it is no problem.
There is a saying that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Something confirmed is worth far more than rumors.
I know of many people who, sadly, truly does believe the church to be the sole cause of the spread.
I live in Kentucky, when Gov Beshear would get on the news he would specifically single out the church as a risk that will spread covid.
I have a relative from West Virginia who said, "the church started it, they have proof".
I know a man who packs a gun and was recently called to preach say "they need to listen to the governor and stay at home so they won't spread it" and we was talking about churches. He goes other places and thinks it is safe though.
A close relative of mine has facebook and there is no shortage of people with similar beliefs.

So yes, they are morons, and they are indeed real. I am not getting this intel from Trump or any other news site. I don't even know what they are saying in regards to this subject. I am making accusations based on the intel I am gathering myself.

What is pizzagate?
I don't recall the importance of Hillary's emails.
Biden's son is a joke, prime meme material, nothing more.
Dead people voting is a fun meme, you gotta admit.
The only thing the SCOTUS did that I know is they, finally, stood up for churches being singled out and oppressed. And buddy it took them long enough to step up.
Don't watch Carlson or any news beyond the local ones and it is mostly just to hear the weather report.
Never heard of Laura Ingram or Judge Pyro.

Trump's lemmings, Biden's lemmings, and every one in between who buys into propaganda that does nothing except accuse the other side is brainwashed. I am not one of them.