The good news is, all the pro choice people can block me now. The bad news is You will never silence me on the evil of abortion

The good news is, all the pro choice people can block me now. The bad news is You will never silence me on the evil of abortion | 2,173 CHILDREN KILLED TODAY IN US NOT BY A SCHOOL SHOOTER BUT BY DOCTORS BEFORE THEY TOOK THEIR FIRST BREATH 61.6 MILLION KILLED SINCE ROE V | image tagged in baby praying,abortion,lies,feminism is cancer | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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960 views, 54 upvotes, Made by Kate_the_Grate 4 weeks ago in politics baby prayingabortionliesfeminism is cancer
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6 ups, 4w
made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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4 ups, 4w,
1 reply
you're deliberately making it sound worse than it is. i son't like abortion, and i discourage it, but comparing someone who has an abortion or performs abortions to a murderer is an appeal to shallow emotions, and is close to calling a conservative "hitler"
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3 ups, 4w
No comparisons, just stating numbers. I could have said number of children killed in abortion was more than a number of people who drowned the past 50 years.
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5 ups, 4w
Love | I LOVE THIS | image tagged in love | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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4 ups, 4w
Success Kid Meme | I AGREE NEVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT, WE WANT SISTERS AND BROTHERS | image tagged in memes,success kid | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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2 ups, 3w,
1 reply
Putin Popcorn | JUST HERE TO READ THESE POLITICAL ARGUMENTS | image tagged in putin popcorn | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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1 up, 3w,
2 replies
IT'S QUITE SAD THAT IT HAS BECOME A POLITICAL ARGUMENT, RATHER THAN A MORAL ONE. (PASS ME SOME OF THAT POPCORN, THO) | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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4 ups, 3w
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2 ups, 3w,
1 reply
eyyy it's in the politics stream. what do you expect?
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0 ups, 3w
You make a good point...
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[deleted]
4 ups, 4w,
3 replies
Kate I have a question.
What if a woman is **ped and she is impregnated?
I mean abortion is still murder but what if that happened?
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10 ups, 4w,
1 reply
While cases of **pe are terrible, the child should not suffer for the sins of the father. Also, **pe and incest combined account only for 0.5% of abortions
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[deleted]
5 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Yeesh.
Well thanks for answering my question.
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3 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Yeah you cator to less than 1% of the cases to excuse murder for convenience of the 99%. Gonna call Trump so that he can award you a medal. Hold your breath while I am on it.
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[deleted]
0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
?
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2 ups, 4w,
2 replies
An answer to your question, one bad does not deserves another bad. In this case you are saying pay **pe with the murder of an innocent does not make it right. I think what will solve the **pe problem is stricter punishment to rapist. For example castrate rapist whole serving in prison enduring hard labor to pay for the care of the kid until they turn 18. To me that sounds right.
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[deleted]
2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
That's also a good idea.
Anybody who ruins another person's life to get their desires quenched must be punished. Severely.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
First point, Why are we not mentioning the fact that the abortion rate is lower than at any time in history since RvW?

Second, where is the 61.6 number coming from? That seems a bit high from the sources I'm seeing.

Third, if we can't acknowledge women the right to abort **pe, the conversation is pretty much over.
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0 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Murder is never right.
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1 up, 4w,
3 replies
Semantics.

One believes life begins at conception
The other believes life begins at birth

If you honestly believed life was so precious you would live realizing each and every egg is special. Each and every sperm is special. They are both alive and both capable of becoming human beings through the choices made and therefore must be protected.

You believe in limiting life just as much as anyone else through any number of life limiting choices you feel are perfectly okay. Just because you use the word, "conception" as protection to justify your own actions that are nevertheless limiting life and stopping the creation of life.
2 ups, 4w
"SPatoine

Egg-xactly!
How convenient for you to have the word conception. What on earth would you do without it? You'd be guilty of killing so many babies with all those condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, the list is endless.

It's all the same thing without the word conception."

Egg-cellent point, and one I was hoping to get to.

As if the Good Book made a distinction between zygotes and gametes.
I might have missed the verse about only fertilized ovum lives matters, but last I checked, it most definitely distinctly and wholeheartedly condemns the act of a man "spilling his seed on the ground," which would thus include but not necessarily be exclusive to your list of condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, as well as masturbation, utilizing other orifices and body parts, and if none of the above are done, nocturnal emissions will occur which is also a violation of the admonishment. Basic damned do/don't.

So for all these devout fundamentalists, the solution is simple: males should all get married before they have their first wet dream and then engage in coitus solely for the purpose of reproducing. There's a few sperm cells in preseminal fluid, so foreplay and even kissing are out. As for the rest of the millions of sperm who lost the race to the egg, I reckon he'll have to settle for corrective lenses to compensate for his ever-faltering sight.

Saving lives (and eyes) can be so trying, but the rewards await.
2 ups, 4w
Egg-xtremely spot on.

My folks and near everyone I grew up with grew up with had like 7 siblings or more.
I don't see Bible Belt Walmart selfies with 8 kids hanging on mommy's shopping cart, or that whole bunch filling an SUV (which always seem rather empty)

Interesting.
1 up, 4w
Nope. Egg won’t become human without sperm. Conception is the start of reproduction. Life at conception. End of discussion.

Don’t presume to speak for me.
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1 up, 4w,
2 replies
"Conception is the start of reproduction"

Looks like someone never told you about the birds and the bees.
1 up, 4w
Egg-xactly!
How convenient for you to have the word conception. What on earth would you do without it? You'd be guilty of killing so many babies with all those condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, the list is endless.

It's all the same thing without the word conception.
1 up, 4w
"Conception" is not the miracle here. The "word" conception and the hypocritical convoluted use of it is the miracle. Holy folk can hang their hats on it and sleep easy after jerking off and flushing perfectly healthy eggs away allowing all other forms of, "choices" for limiting God's greatest gift, under the guise of family planning. Rest easy and tell all the rest of us we're a bunch of sinners for believing in choice. If they truly believed life is such a gift from God they would all have 15 children or the most the womb of the family could create!

This is the most hypocritical bullshit of mankind!
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2 ups, 4w
That type of punishment would have to leap over as many constitutional norms to become law as outlawing abortion would.

Rape will never be stopped with harsh punishment. Do you also believe gun crime will stop with tough gun laws?
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[deleted]
0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
If you are trying to start an argument, go somewhere else.
I was just asking a question.
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2 ups, 4w
Well you already asked same question in another post. But here is some things to consider. If the punishment is very severe, it will prevent **pe cases out of fear of punishment. But also, in United States the adoption process is extremely painful and expensive, to the point that some families were forced to adopt from other nations. If that was not the case, **pe mothers could put their kids for adoption to a loving family who wants the kids. The problem we can say then that it is 1) punishments for **pe are a joke 2) adoptions process in US needs to be reworked so that middle lower class can afford it. Those two subjects you will never see anyone talking about even doing something about it.
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5 ups, 4w,
2 replies
That is a valid question. I can't speak for Kate (who I tend to agree with on this issue), but I will offer my opinion.

I think it is up to the woman. NO ONE should have to live with a daily reminder of what was likely the worst moment of her life. No child should have to live with a mother who has less than the most positive regard for the child. At the same time, there are women who feel otherwise, and who believe that something good can come from something awful. They should be free to make their own choice.

I would prefer that they give the child up for adoption, but it is not decision to make.

As others here have noted, however, we cannot equate cases of **pe and cases of convenience.
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[deleted]
2 ups, 4w
That's a good argument!
Thanks for answering my question.
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1 up, 4w
Not *my* decision

Why do we always find typos when it is too late?
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4 ups, 4w
Looks like others answered your question pretty thoroughly. I would just add that abortion in these cases only benefits the man who can just take his victim to planned parenthood and get rid of the "evidence" 2,3, 10 times if needed. Especially in states where no parental consent is needed a predator can continue impregnating victims for years and no one would know. Let that sink in. I've yet to hear a story about a woman who was more traumatized by having to carry the child to term and either put him or her for adoption or raise them. In many cases, the child ended up being a huge gift and healing force in their life. There are many famous people who were deemed "the productof **pe" and wenton to be very successful individuals.
Its up to society to accept these children and punish the real criminals not the mother and child. I hate the term "rapist's child" that's like an adoptive parent always referring to their orphan, their adopted kid, or bastard. Its demeaning to the child. A child is a child, no matter the circumstances of their conception. I don't call my friend's son a test tube baby even though he is. He has a name and a life just as my children who were conceived naturally. 
A child conceived in **pe shouldbe just as valued as a child born to a stable and loving home
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2 ups, 4w
Here, have an upvote. Amen
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2 ups, 4w,
4 replies
How much longer can America endure this? idk.

I think a better question would be: how long could it endure the absence of it?

If 61.6 million women had been blocked from having abortions, I think America would actually be worse off..

How many million of em wouldve needed food stamps? Would be born addicted? Would be killed anyway using other methods?

We already have problems with homelessness, opioids, mass shootings, and overpopulated jails.. Seems to me 61 million more people raised by mothers and/or fathers/other family members who would've otherwise aborted them would probably not improve our current situation. Some probably wouldn't have got pregnant in the first place but even if it decreased by 75% that's still roughly 15million extra people.
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3 ups, 4w,
1 reply
3/4 of all women seeking abortion are low income. 3/4 of them would be on the gov dole. A majority of them would be on the government dole for years as we pay for birth, diapers, baby food, food stamps, education, and then, prison, deaths due to increased murder, the list is endless.

There is a direct relationship between increased crime and access to abortion.

All because of a difference in semantics. Both believe in choice. Anti-abortion people choose to not have perfectly plausible children every day, killing billions of babies before they even have a chance. Killing them by their own choice to limit those births. Even if they simply follow the monthly cycle, they are choosing to limit life. Isn't ALL life precious? Apparently not.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Glad you're with me on getting rid of costly illegals.

An egg that hasn't been fertilized isn't life but you know that.
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0 ups, 4w
A healthy egg that hasn't been fertilized is more capable of life than a unhealthy egg that has.

Neither is life, but you know that.
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3 ups, 4w,
1 reply
All irrelevant points that don't justify the murder of 61.6 millions children.
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1 up, 4w
Their final question posed: "how much longer America can ENDURE..." is not a question of justness.
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1 up, 4w
The decline in crime rates over the decades has been attributed (at least partially, but to a large degree) to abortions.
One thing criminals tend to have in common is a broken family, no father active in their lives. An unwanted child would obviously most likely not be raised in the most optimal conditions.

Not saying that excuses people from being irresponsible beforehand, but the reality is...
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4 ups, 4w,
1 reply
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
I personally know at least one person in which this is the sole issue that decides their vote. Which is what it is... That's their choice. But that shows how powerful this issue is. And it seems possible that Republican politicians actually never cared about kids/fetuses/children... They simply wanted to pull church-goers into the voting booth to vote for their guy. I vaguely remember hearing about something backing up this theory but it's been a while.
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5 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Oh! You mean like Democrats with illegals!
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
W Bush wanted to grant TEN million illegals citizenship.
Both stated the move would hand the GOP millions of new members.
THAT'S where the notion comes from, from what they have stated and hoped for.

Then there's Boots-on-Ground, people from mainly Communist countries like the USSR, Cuba as well as both Koreas given 18 months free rent, citizenship, grants and interest free loans for school and to - get this - open up their own businesses! Republicans love to tell them that those programs are their babies. THAT'S why Cubans have higher R membership.

So YES, there is some truth in this bit of propaganda, except that the cynical ploy is an openly proclaimed Republican one.
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3 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Yep, Reagan got played like a sucker and turned once Republican California blue forever. Not sure why he's a hero to so many.

Yes, both the democrats and Kochsucking republicans have their reasons why they want a steady influx of people coming in.
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3 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Poor poor Ronny 'The Cowboy" Reagan. The 3,000,000, getting Jap auto cos to set up factories here so we can pretend we're somehow saving actual US auto, making a deal with Khomeini to keep the hostages till Inauguration, Iran-Contra, transporting enough coke to start the crack... Guy was just a senile buffoon that had no idea what he was doing when he did it. Sad.

Why is he a God to idiot GOPers? Same reason that other mentally deficient buffoon Trump is now. Authoritarian figures about to tear up the Constitution while bringing us to the brink of a WWIII that will never happen and going to end abortion ONE DAY that is not yet today and whose handlers do all the thinking so that they and their base of inbred drones won't have to because thinking takes effort.

Immigrants do our labor and cheaply, are responsible for 70% of small business startups, do our science & med & tech research and development, pay more in taxes (even illegals) than they take out, and oh, and keep our GDP growing because the more our consumer base grows, the more our consumer base grows because math.

Any idiot that thinks all them millionaires in office are letting them in because they're so amazingly altruistic is, well, and idiot.
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1 up, 4w
the crack epidemic*
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0 ups, 4w
to*
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I see what you're getting at, but no.. There is one very important distinction between the two.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
The illegals had a mother who didn't have their child killed?

I'm sure there are hypocrite Repubs that don't care and are just using it for political reasons.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Immigration policy is the sole deciding factor for virtually zero Dems. It's an important issue but idk if it could override any other issue like abortion can. Maybe if you are an illegal yeah but.... I'm not buying that "millions of illegals voted for Hillary" nonsense. Dems aren't packing the courts in an effort to change immigration laws. Sh*t Obama even deported record numbers of illegals and he got re-elected.
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2 ups, 4w,
2 replies
When I said Dem, I meant Dem politicians.

I heard that merely turning people away at border got thrown in with the deportation numbers.
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2 ups, 4w
It does look like rejected applications/"turning people away" ("returns") are included in overall deportation numbers.. but it also still looks like Obama had record numbers of "removals" described as "the compulsory movement of a noncitizen out of the United States based on a formal order of removal" (400,000+ people 2011& 2012)..

Also seems noteworthy that 2012 federal immigration enforcement funding was nearly $18 BILLION— which was 24% higher than the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, Secret Service, U.S. Marshals Service, and the ATF.....COMBINED!

As far as Dem politicians.. if they're using it for votes.. where would these votes be coming from? Are you suggesting that they're trying to convince illegals to vote for them..or that Mexicans who legally become citizens will vote Dem because they're soft on illegals..? If I had to go through the legal process of becoming an American citizen, I'm not sure I would want to vote for people who "let illegals come pouring in" or are otherwise perceived as being soft on them... So ya just curious on what you're claiming their goal is here..
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2 ups, 4w
"I heard that merely turning people away at border got thrown in with the deportation numbers."

Yes, which skewed the figures which still doesnt change the fact that he still had them deported/barred and was also building the wall that Trump is gonna get Mexico to build in 2024.

That differs a tad from warehousing them, which is what Trump is doing. Those camps he's been building to keep them instead of getting them the hell out of here already? Those are temporary, to be replaced by prisons. Like Clinton, Trump is all for privitization of prisons, and what famous celeb real estate developer knows how to milk building big privately owned buildings with a big gov't assist *nudge nudge*?

Read between the lines, it ain't about a wall to keep them out, it's about keeping them IN. For years. At the taxpayer expense and the billionaires' gain.

Welcome to the fArt of the Deal.
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5 ups, 4w,
1 reply
America can endure pretty much indefinitely with legal access to abortion services.
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4 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Well, when America is ran under Islam we won't have to worry about abortion then, or woman and gay rights either. With that attitude, soon, very soon.
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4 ups, 4w,
1 reply
And yet, the ballot measures I have to vote on are still mostly "Christian" inspired and not one has anything to do with Islam.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
It is only a matter of time until they outbreed you all, their kids grow up to fill all the political roles and us game over. Just look at Europe for a preview of what is to come.
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2 ups, 4w,
3 replies
Hi, I'm in Europe right now. Everything's fine. Come join us.
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2 ups, 4w
Imagine being so delusional.
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1 up, 4w
Over the last 4-5 years in Sweden sexual assault on 15-18 year olds has rose over 50% as per a Swedish report. Those f**king Amish, amirite?
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I been to Europe, I have family in Spain. I seen it with my own eyes. You guys are just conditioned.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Well, it's a hell of a conditioning job for so many people to be happy with the presence of Islam.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Yup it sure is.
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2 ups, 4w,
3 replies
OK. We're still happy with the presence of Islam, though.
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1 up, 4w
"Who's converted?"

Cassius Clay.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I am sure US will be all happy when they convert to islam as well.
2 ups, 4w
Who's converted?
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0 ups, 4w
What is the easiest way to throw a ball, have it stop, and completely reverse direction after traveling a short distance?
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3 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Elaborate. In what America are 3 million Muslims taking over?

Extreme ideology of any stripe is bad. There is little difference between the Taliban and any other extreme religious view.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
It is only a matter of time until they outbreed you all, their kids grow up to fill all the political roles and is game over. Just look at Europe for a preview of what is to come. It may just take a few generations but it is gonna happen.
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3 ups, 4w,
2 replies
That is a lot of things.

1. Ridiculous
2. Racist
3. Bigoted
4. You are using the same line of thinking as a white supremacist. Our nation has laws that govern all of us. It does not matter what color we are. You're worried the great white man will lose dominance. That is an extremely pessimistic view of the world. That our nation will be completely lost if/when the white man loses control of it.

You are thinking much too highly of yourself and your importance in this country.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
You seem intolerant of Fauscovai's views. That makes you a BIGOT.
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1 up, 4w
There is a difference between being intolerant toward someone of racial origin and being intolerant to ridiculous, non-mathematical math calculations. In fact, pushing ridiculous, non-mathematical math calculations as a basis for your argument and then including phrases like, "they outbreed you all", this post is dripping with racism and bigotry.

I gladly admit to being intolerant to Fauscovai's views.

And YOU defend them. You should be so proud of yourself.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
No, I am speaking the truth, you just refuse to see it. I guess time will tell. You be a lefty and call me all those words, they do not hurt me, but if it makes you feel better from losing the argument by all means. When Islam takes overn your kin will be no more. One by one will be stonned. You keep on going on your cultural genocide crusade.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
Even in your intolerant world you should see that worrying about 3% of the population taking over our country, "outbreeding us all", is an ignorant argument to make.
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0 ups, 4w
Dude you are delusional. Talking to a brick wall at this point is a better way to spend my time talking to you. It is coming, time will tell.
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1 up, 4w
*THIS IS JOKE*
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1 up, 4w,
2 replies
i.imgflip.com/3n5k67.jpg (click to show)
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2 ups, 4w
Not even close to the same thing, which means you're either lying or delusional. I'm going with the latter.
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Sure called that one right.

Sorta.

Half or more pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions AKA miscarriages.

Thank you, God. Cleaning out the excess since Eve.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
i.imgflip.com/36omkz.jpg (click to show)
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1 up, 4w
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4 ups, 4w,
2 replies
For as long as the polling on this issue remains consistent, and the position of the median voter is the messy patchwork of haphazard abortion restrictions we currently have
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3 ups, 4w,
2 replies
That chart pretty much says it all. Even most Christians believe in the right to abortion.
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3 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Which means they aren’t actually Christian. Having parents who are Christian and going to church don’t make you Christian either. Real talk, so called “Christians in America” as a whole are shit. They don’t actually practice what the Bible preaches. Case on point, abortion. It’s a life and they should be protecting it.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
Neither do the Roman Pagan followers of Son of Jackal seated in Rome called Christains practice what the Bible preaches.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
So true. Which further proves my point. Calling yourself a Christian don't make you a Christian. Just some idiots trying to hijack a name.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Calling yourself a Christian disqualifies anyone from claiming anything to do with the Judeans, their God, and their Book.
It's a pagan cult that stole their religion and corrupted it beyond recognition to call it their own for political reasons and have been doing their damndest (and I mean damned) to stamp out THE Chosen so as to eliminate that connection, which, of course, is the only authentic one.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
"Calling yourself a Christian disqualifies anyone from claiming anything to do with the Judeans, their God, and their Book."

How so? Your argument is literally illogical. Feel free to try again.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
You went to Temple earlier today? You did post on the Sabbath, so that's a violation right there.
You eat Kosher? Do you know why Jews are not Christians? Of course you don't, you'll just say they haven't found Jesus so they got lost for the last 2000 yrs. Guess THEIR God chose the wrong CHOSEN and opted for those who persecute them instead because he's not quite the brightest of the Gods, eh?

Quick, explain why Jesus is NOT a Messiah. Let's see if you know anything.
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0 ups, 4w,
4 replies
So you literally named only ceremonial laws that Jesus himself told the Jews was meant to illustrate... so no, your talking nonsense again. Christians don't ignore Jews and their God and text... It's literally the same God, except Christians believe that Jesus was the final fulfillment of the law. In other words, he finished the book. You can disagree all you want but that is what makes a Christian a Christian.

And no, God chose the Jews to bring about the blessing to the world (Jesus was a Jew). He chose right and it served its purpose. So the correct thing to say would be God pointed them to Jesus but they ignored it for 2000 years... Sorry, we can't all be right. Truth is not relative, it is objective.

So yeah, your question is built on a premise of error because Jesus was the Messiah according to Christians. Care to explain why Jesus IS the Messiah? Quick, don't explain. Just keep up your constipation of the mind but diarrhea of the mouth routine instead.
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
So what you're saying is you do not follow the Commandments. Cool. I had a feeling.

Jesus didn't write anything. His Apostles didn't write anything. The Romans, however, did. Son of Jackal seated in Rome, remember?

You (SURPRISE!) failed to answer what would make Jesus a Messiah.
Here, let me make it simple enough for you. We'll do it in little baby steps:
What is a Messiah? What do they do?

I await your continued deflection. Your ad hominems hide it so well. No one can notice you still not having said a single thing of worth. Not even Jesus. God bless you.
0 ups, 4w
Said I didn't follow his ceremonial law, which is what Christians are supposed to do... You really don't know anything about Christians, that much is clear.

His apostles didn't write anything? So zero research was done. Now it is starting to make sense why you sound super ignorant. The majority of the new testament was written by the people who knew Jesus personally save for Paul and the author of Hebrews. Again... the Son of a Jackal can say all day long he is a Christian but that doesn't make him a Christian nor his writings Cannon. I mean, you seriously can't be this dumb.

If I write lore for Star Wars tomorrow, does that make it cannon? No... So it seems you are the only one who believes in Son of Jackal... You should worship a better God in my opinion.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Jesus preached the Torah. He did not preach to dismiss it.
That's Roman paganism you're spewing.

No, they didn't. You can look this up you know.
All those books where written long after they were dead, assuming they existed at all, of which there is no record either, nor of Jesus.
Saul/Paul, killer of Christians and the vehicle Son of Jackal used to con early Christains is irrelevent. He's how THE Word was corrupted, as prophecy foretold incidentally. Not that that isn't a myth either, but it is fitting.

You still didn't answer what is a Messiah and what do they do?
Here: What is & does a Messiah do?

Is that simple enough for you to process, or shall you get triggered further into showing me what a good little Christian you are?

Preach that love, my brother, preach the love,,,
0 ups, 4w
Yeah, he preached that he was the fulfillment which annulled the ceremonial law. It's why Christians never practiced circumcision as a sign of their covenant with Jesus.

So real talk, sorry to make you so angry, but you really are missing a lot of context. I mean, you don't actually understand the premise behind why Jesus dismissed the ceremonial law and claim to know more of the authority of the Bible that has been historically debunked. It's not really me being a "good little Christian" trying to school you. We are just at different points of our journeys, except yours hasn't really begun yet, like an infant. Here I am, a kindergartner trying to explain tying shoe laces to you... It's not that I have figured it all out, but you definitely don't have a clue. Are their better Christians out there than me, for sure. Yet, you don't know what a Christian is, what they actually believe, their actual history, and somehow you claim to know better than me. Sorry, but you don't.

So how about this, I'll pump the brakes on my sarcasm and take it seriously and genuinely. If you really want to know what Christians believe, who Jesus was and what he said he was about, then let's have a real conversation. We agree to both cut the sarcasm and personal attacks and we start fresh and have a real conversation. I mean it, seriously. All I ask is you come with an open mind. If you wanna do that, I am happy to talk. I'll start with the core belief of Christians is and we can expand from there. Your call.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
um, wha?
0 ups, 4w
Ok boomer
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
tl;dr on the last one cuz ya still ain't answered simple questions.

I

WANT

TO

SEE

THEM

QUOTES

FOR

REAL

REAL.

Your continued dodging ain't exactly proving your case.

"Jesus dismissed the ceremonial law"

False.

"and claim to know more of the authority of the Bible that has been historically debunked."

Erm, wha?
0 ups, 4w
Cool, so you pass. Not surprised but I tried.

And what are you talking about... I did answer all your questions... maybe you should read it...
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0 ups, 4w,
2 replies
“No true Scotsman” fallacy huh?
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2 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Thou shall not kill.

Seems specific to me.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
How many exceptions to that rule exist depending on context?
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1 up, 4w,
1 reply
What exceptions? Genuinely curious as to what you see as exceptions.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I won’t speak for myself but rather offer some examples that I know most or all American conservatives support:

—Self-defense
—Death penalty
—Armed forces
—Assassinations by drone of top foreign officials without a congressional declaration of war

Just a few off the top of my head.
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0 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Most make sense. Let me go through them.

Self Defense: Yes, when someone is willing to forfeit your family's life and your own, then yes, this makes sense.

Death Penalty: Given to people that took someone's innocent life, then yes, this makes sense.

Armed Forces: As a means to defend your country, yes, this would make sense.

Assassinations by drone of top foreign officials without a congressional declaration of war because of an credible imminent threat to our own troops and officials: yes, that makes sense as well. BTW, a president has the right to take such action without congressional declaration of war if it is to protect our borders and citizens (that's how Obama pulled of 2,800 strikes without congressional approval).

So yeah, that all makes sense. Now one more question. Care to show me one example that the Bible approves of where an exception is made to kill innocent people?
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I’m not a Christian myself so I don’t personally care what moral guidance the Bible has to offer about any of these subjects.

However, there is that one Bible verse about dashing innocent Babylonian women and their unborn children upon the rocks as an act of pure vengeance and, arguably, genocide

Is it actually multiple verses that say something like this?

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm
0 ups, 4w
Context... you got to know the context. Because no, these verses do not advocate for the murder of innocents. So, would you happen to have another that actually does?
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
The Babylonian women and certainly unborn children had nothing to with any dispute between the Jews and Babylonians.

These verses celebrate vengeance, genocide, and (if you believe fetuses are people), unborn infanticide pure and simple
0 ups, 4w
Like I said, context is everything. The context is this: it is a Psalm, which is not commandments but the raw emotion of real people that have experienced hard things. The speaker is clearly angry and wants vengeance, but that is not what happened next, nor is it a justification. So here is the even purer and simpler: they didn't even kill the babies. Surely you see the difference between being mad and saying you wish someone was dead vs you actually killing them vs you telling someone to kill them.

The context is just raw emotion to convey the pain they felt at losing their home and having their children killed. Furthermore, Jesus himself ups the standard when he went as far as to say that if someone even looks angrily at his brother, that he has committed murder. So again, would you happen to know an actual verse that shows that Christians should shed innocent blood that holds up to context?
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2 ups, 4w,
2 replies
Care to explain how the fallacy applies?

The following verses makes it clear that God has life start before birth and before a heart monitor kicks in: Psalm 139:13,15 and Galatians 1:15.

God's words in the following verses that he already started working with the "person" in the womb: Jeremiah 1:5.

God's view of John before he is born: Luke 1:15.

And actually while you are in Luke, check out what the baby is called in Elizabeth's womb. Not a clump of cells or a "fetus," but an actual person.

Someone can call themselves a Christian all day but the cornerstone of a faithful Christian is them following the Bible (John 14:21). So a so-called "Christian" can say all day they are pro-choice but it doesn't mean they hold a Christian view, and any actual Christian would be right to judge and consider if they are a Christian at all...

So, no flame, but just an encouragement to give yourself credibility. I have a Muslim friend who I have wonderful debates with regularly. Part of the competence I bring to the table is that I study his Quran extensively so I can speak with authority. I suggest you do the same. I give these thoughts as the personal standard I set for myself so feel free to ignore it or think about, either way, I look forward to your explanation on the fallacy bit.
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0 ups, 4w,
2 replies
“No true Scotsman”: I am always suspicious of people trying to deny other people’s legitimately-held religious beliefs.

There a lot of direct commandments from God in the Bible that are way more specific than the argument you have pieced together using a patchwork of different verses, so I am still not convinced.

Without actually taking the time right now to look up these verses: Didn’t God say men should not “spill their seed,” eat shellfish on Fridays, and all sorts of other direct admonishments that are routinely ignored by modern-day Christians?

If you think your religion bans abortion because that’s what your religion means to you, fine.

But I see no textual Biblical justification for a ban on abortion that justifies the immense importance that the modern conservative Christian movement has attached to it.
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1 up, 4w
"I am always suspicious of people trying to deny other people’s legitimately-held religious beliefs."

What's happening here is the equivalence of you telling me that a person believes in nonviolence and then we watch them punch someone in the face. I mean, they can call themselves whatever they want, but they do not actually believe in nonviolent resistance. That is the difference here. You are taking people at their word, even though they are lying (whether it is to themselves or to others). My approach is going to their sacred text and saying are they actually trying to follow this thing? Now don't get me wrong, nobody is perfect. But there's a difference between someone who blatantly ignores the text and someone who genuinely works hard to follow it.

"Without actually taking the time right now to look up these verses: Didn’t God say men should not “spill their seed,” eat shellfish on Fridays, and all sorts of other direct admonishments that are routinely ignored by modern-day Christians?"

A lot here so I'll try to cover it all. Jews had what was ceremonial laws (shellfish rule would fall under this), spiritual laws (such as how to generally treat your neighbor), and organizational laws (like how to run a country). The long and short of it was that Jesus abolished the ceremonial law, and Paul in his letters explains why. So the first question would be, what in particular do you see modern-Christians routinely ignoring because it might be something ceremonial which they do not have to follow anymore, per Jesus. And then second, it sounds to me like you get it. If you are seeing so called "Christians" not following spiritual laws, then yeah, they ain't Christian. Which has been my point all along.

The verses I gave you are all verses that God sees the baby as a person before it is born, how can I get more specific and to the point than that? The original language is even more direct and specific than that, so what more do you need?

"But I see no textual Biblical justification for a ban on abortion that justifies the immense importance that the modern conservative Christian movement has attached to it."

I mean the entire theme of the Bible is that God puts incredible value on life because "we are made in his image." Furthermore, God defines life starting in the womb. So an abortion would be the shedding of innocent blood. Something God hates (and that is a big deal). So yeah, it is of immense importance.
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0 ups, 4w
"'No true Scotsman': I am always suspicious of people trying to deny other people’s legitimately-held religious beliefs."

Long and short, I hope you understand that I don't have a problem with what people want to believe, I am distinguishing what they say vs what they actually believe.

At the end of the day, Jesus, the son of God, came as a man and asked people to follow him and his teachings. That is what Christians are. Someone who ignores his teachings isn't actually following him so they aren't Christian (even if they say they are).

I use the same equal measure in other areas of life. For example, the Democratic party has a big issue right now with extremists who claim to be liberals. A classic liberal would tell you to believe what you want and would die defending the country that gives that person the right to believe what they want (even when they don't agree). They are staunch defenders of free speech and the second amendment. The extremists on the other hand want speech policed and want to ban all guns. When they say they are liberals, I tell them they aren't because liberals believe in liberty and egalitarianism.

With your reasoning, those extremists calling themselves liberals are actually liberals. Really? Sorry to be the one to tell you but SJW's aren't liberals no matter what they tell you or say they believe till they actually follow liberal views.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
You referred to some verses without actually quoting them. To expect someone else to do what you're too lazy to do yourself is hardly competence. Although methinks like everything else in that book, they'd be a tad on the vague and subject to much interpretation side anyways.

Jus sayin.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
"You referred to some verses without actually quoting them. To expect someone else to do what you're too lazy to do yourself is hardly competence."

Rather than bog down my response with verses, I gave you the verse references with descriptions. You literally are viewing this on an electronic device that can copy/paste and requires 3 seconds. The only incompetence I see here is in your argument. I mean, reread it. You sound incredibly disingenuous. If I post the entire chapters for context in this text box, do you honestly believe you will look at it and do you honestly think you come off as genuinely wanting to have a conversation about it? Not only do you lack competence in your argument, you come off very fake and close minded.

"Although methinks like everything else in that book, they'd be a tad on the vague and subject to much interpretation side anyways."

If you study the Bible in its entirety and know how to study it, then no, it isn't vague. Again, you sound like you actually know nothing about the Bible. If I had to guess, someone or some people at a church claiming to call themselves Christians jaded you in some way and is the fuel for where your prejudice comes from. I would even argue that they know about as much about the Bible than you do too.

Just sayin.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
^ tl;dr

You didn't give diddly to me, you gave it to that raging pedantic Kyle who doesn't get any further than charts and the quick snippets of quotes tailored for them. Kinda like you, but graphs instead of Bible Verse numbers.

If you're gonna waste my time on your babbling wall of text, might as well skip the stuffing and get to the meat. But you didn't because you can't and you can't so you won't.
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0 ups, 4w,
6 replies
VagbondSouffle: I didn't read it but you are wrong.

Hahaha, as confident as you are ignorant. Love it. And no, don't put yourself on Kylie's level. Kid tries to reason from time to time. You lack the ability so you turn to personal insults. A weak minded man's assualt. Come at me when you've grown.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Below what level, that of a pagan trying to pretend to be worthy of being called a Jew by using Scripture to prove some nonsense that Jews themselves don't believe in?
That's so awesome, you're smug is so humble. Jesus would be so very impressed.

Guy, you're trying to fling it into my lap is adorable and I commend the excrutiating effort and energy that it has taken for you to wrench that out of your assToot-ness (see what I did there?), but I ain't said diddly. I asked about what YOU almost said but didn't. I'm just a lazy sod waiting for you to share yer no-ledge (see what I did there?)
0 ups, 4w
The only person pretending to be a Jew and a Christian is you... Again, stop projecting, it looks silly at this point. The kiddy words don't help your case either, hahahaha
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Where did I say the quotes are fake? Desperate much?
Your misconstruing them is what's fake. Although given their mythological aspect...

I claimed to be credible about what exactly?
0 ups, 4w
So you aren't credible?

You walked into that one...
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
I claimed to be of what religion? Where?

My credibility regarding what YOU are (not) saying is not logical, let alone an issue or even relevent.

Your increasingly desperate attempts to deflect continue. I'm enjoying that.

Do continue.
0 ups, 4w
Deflecting by saying I am deflecting without denying you lack credibility. Rich
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0 ups, 4w
Credibilty? Me? Regarding what exactly? For the nth time and because you're a little on the 'slow side,' how can I deny what I never claimed?

Your repitition begins to bore?
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Projection much with your ad hominems?

You're a liar, a faker. You post some references expecting everyone else to do your homework for you. When those vague quotes turn out to be too vague to prove your lame pagan point, you just blame the other for not 'understanding' them. It's a short cut that allows you to to dismiss without actually saying anything. THEY'RE ignorant, THEY don't get it. You, of course, being such a competent corrupter, do.

Typical.
0 ups, 4w
You admitted to not reading my quotes but call them fake... In other words, you yourself admitted you know nothing and then pretend to be the "credible" one... Sounds like your mad because your projection doesn't work on me... What a joke.

Well, at least you are confidently ignorant. I'll give you that.
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0 ups, 4w,
1 reply
Kylie's level? You serious? Pay attention, kid, Kylie's at YOUR level - a charlatan, a faker. Remember, he posts graphs just like you post verse citations, both of yous not going any deeper? And when he gets stumped, as he often does, he deflects and resorts to ad hominems just like you.
0 ups, 4w
Which makes you even more pathetic... since you are below his level. Hahahaha
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0 ups, 4w
Yeah, you can't call yourself a Christian if you go against Gods words. There are lots of fakes out there.
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2 ups, 4w
This is irrelevant though. Since when does morality and ethics correlate with popular opinion? If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. Doesn’t matter if the whole world thinks it. The whole world thought the world was flat at one point. Imagine the scene. A scientist saying it is round and then you showing them what the latest polls say. This is an argument on whether the baby is a life or not, so polls don’t mean shit.
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2,173 CHILDREN KILLED TODAY IN US NOT BY A SCHOOL SHOOTER BUT BY DOCTORS BEFORE THEY TOOK THEIR FIRST BREATH; 61.6 MILLION KILLED SINCE ROE V WADE. ALMOST TWICE THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IN BOTH WORLD WARS. ALL IN THE NAME OF HEALTHCARE AND WOMAN'S RIGHTS. HOW MUCH LONGER CAN AMERICA ENDURE UNDER THIS SCOURGE?
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