The good news is, all the pro choice people can block me now. The bad news is You will never silence me on the evil of abortion

you're deliberately making it sound worse than it is. i son't like abortion, and i discourage it, but comparing someone who has an abortion or performs abortions to a murderer is an appeal to shallow emotions, and is close to calling a conservative "hitler"

No comparisons, just stating numbers. I could have said number of children killed in abortion was more than a number of people who drowned the past 50 years.

eyyy it's in the politics stream. what do you expect?

You make a good point...

Kate I have a question.
What if a woman is raped and she is impregnated?
I mean abortion is still murder but what if that happened?

While cases of rape are terrible, the child should not suffer for the sins of the father. Also, rape and incest combined account only for 0.5% of abortions

Yeesh.
Well thanks for answering my question.

Yeah you cator to less than 1% of the cases to excuse murder for convenience of the 99%. Gonna call Trump so that he can award you a medal. Hold your breath while I am on it.

?

An answer to your question, one bad does not deserves another bad. In this case you are saying pay rape with the murder of an innocent does not make it right. I think what will solve the rape problem is stricter punishment to rapist. For example castrate rapist whole serving in prison enduring hard labor to pay for the care of the kid until they turn 18. To me that sounds right.

That's also a good idea.
Anybody who ruins another person's life to get their desires quenched must be punished. Severely.

First point, Why are we not mentioning the fact that the abortion rate is lower than at any time in history since RvW?

Second, where is the 61.6 number coming from? That seems a bit high from the sources I'm seeing.

Third, if we can't acknowledge women the right to abort rape, the conversation is pretty much over.

Murder is never right.

Semantics.

One believes life begins at conception
The other believes life begins at birth

If you honestly believed life was so precious you would live realizing each and every egg is special. Each and every sperm is special. They are both alive and both capable of becoming human beings through the choices made and therefore must be protected.

You believe in limiting life just as much as anyone else through any number of life limiting choices you feel are perfectly okay. Just because you use the word, "conception" as protection to justify your own actions that are nevertheless limiting life and stopping the creation of life.

"SPatoine

Egg-xactly!
How convenient for you to have the word conception. What on earth would you do without it? You'd be guilty of killing so many babies with all those condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, the list is endless.

It's all the same thing without the word conception."

Egg-cellent point, and one I was hoping to get to.

As if the Good Book made a distinction between zygotes and gametes.
I might have missed the verse about only fertilized ovum lives matters, but last I checked, it most definitely distinctly and wholeheartedly condemns the act of a man "spilling his seed on the ground," which would thus include but not necessarily be exclusive to your list of condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, as well as masturbation, utilizing other orifices and body parts, and if none of the above are done, nocturnal emissions will occur which is also a violation of the admonishment. Basic damned do/don't.

So for all these devout fundamentalists, the solution is simple: males should all get married before they have their first wet dream and then engage in coitus solely for the purpose of reproducing. There's a few sperm cells in preseminal fluid, so foreplay and even kissing are out. As for the rest of the millions of sperm who lost the race to the egg, I reckon he'll have to settle for corrective lenses to compensate for his ever-faltering sight.

Saving lives (and eyes) can be so trying, but the rewards await.

Egg-xtremely spot on.

My folks and near everyone I grew up with grew up with had like 7 siblings or more.
I don't see Bible Belt Walmart selfies with 8 kids hanging on mommy's shopping cart, or that whole bunch filling an SUV (which always seem rather empty)

Interesting.

Nope. Egg won’t become human without sperm. Conception is the start of reproduction. Life at conception. End of discussion.

Don’t presume to speak for me.

"Conception is the start of reproduction"

Looks like someone never told you about the birds and the bees.

Egg-xactly!
How convenient for you to have the word conception. What on earth would you do without it? You'd be guilty of killing so many babies with all those condoms, pills, pulling out, watching the cycle of the month, the list is endless.

It's all the same thing without the word conception.

"Conception" is not the miracle here. The "word" conception and the hypocritical convoluted use of it is the miracle. Holy folk can hang their hats on it and sleep easy after jerking off and flushing perfectly healthy eggs away allowing all other forms of, "choices" for limiting God's greatest gift, under the guise of family planning. Rest easy and tell all the rest of us we're a bunch of sinners for believing in choice. If they truly believed life is such a gift from God they would all have 15 children or the most the womb of the family could create!

This is the most hypocritical bullshit of mankind!

That type of punishment would have to leap over as many constitutional norms to become law as outlawing abortion would.

Rape will never be stopped with harsh punishment. Do you also believe gun crime will stop with tough gun laws?

If you are trying to start an argument, go somewhere else.
I was just asking a question.

Well you already asked same question in another post. But here is some things to consider. If the punishment is very severe, it will prevent rape cases out of fear of punishment. But also, in United States the adoption process is extremely painful and expensive, to the point that some families were forced to adopt from other nations. If that was not the case, rape mothers could put their kids for adoption to a loving family who wants the kids. The problem we can say then that it is 1) punishments for rape are a joke 2) adoptions process in US needs to be reworked so that middle lower class can afford it. Those two subjects you will never see anyone talking about even doing something about it.

That is a valid question. I can't speak for Kate (who I tend to agree with on this issue), but I will offer my opinion.

I think it is up to the woman. NO ONE should have to live with a daily reminder of what was likely the worst moment of her life. No child should have to live with a mother who has less than the most positive regard for the child. At the same time, there are women who feel otherwise, and who believe that something good can come from something awful. They should be free to make their own choice.

I would prefer that they give the child up for adoption, but it is not decision to make.

As others here have noted, however, we cannot equate cases of rape and cases of convenience.

That's a good argument!
Thanks for answering my question.

Not *my* decision

Why do we always find typos when it is too late?

Looks like others answered your question pretty thoroughly. I would just add that abortion in these cases only benefits the man who can just take his victim to planned parenthood and get rid of the "evidence" 2,3, 10 times if needed. Especially in states where no parental consent is needed a predator can continue impregnating victims for years and no one would know. Let that sink in. I've yet to hear a story about a woman who was more traumatized by having to carry the child to term and either put him or her for adoption or raise them. In many cases, the child ended up being a huge gift and healing force in their life. There are many famous people who were deemed "the productof rape" and wenton to be very successful individuals.
Its up to society to accept these children and punish the real criminals not the mother and child. I hate the term "rapist's child" that's like an adoptive parent always referring to their orphan, their adopted kid, or bastard. Its demeaning to the child. A child is a child, no matter the circumstances of their conception. I don't call my friend's son a test tube baby even though he is. He has a name and a life just as my children who were conceived naturally. 
A child conceived in **pe shouldbe just as valued as a child born to a stable and loving home

Here, have an upvote. Amen

How much longer can America endure this? idk.

I think a better question would be: how long could it endure the absence of it?

If 61.6 million women had been blocked from having abortions, I think America would actually be worse off..

How many million of em wouldve needed food stamps? Would be born addicted? Would be killed anyway using other methods?

We already have problems with homelessness, opioids, mass shootings, and overpopulated jails.. Seems to me 61 million more people raised by mothers and/or fathers/other family members who would've otherwise aborted them would probably not improve our current situation. Some probably wouldn't have got pregnant in the first place but even if it decreased by 75% that's still roughly 15million extra people.

3/4 of all women seeking abortion are low income. 3/4 of them would be on the gov dole. A majority of them would be on the government dole for years as we pay for birth, diapers, baby food, food stamps, education, and then, prison, deaths due to increased murder, the list is endless.

There is a direct relationship between increased crime and access to abortion.

All because of a difference in semantics. Both believe in choice. Anti-abortion people choose to not have perfectly plausible children every day, killing billions of babies before they even have a chance. Killing them by their own choice to limit those births. Even if they simply follow the monthly cycle, they are choosing to limit life. Isn't ALL life precious? Apparently not.

Glad you're with me on getting rid of costly illegals.

An egg that hasn't been fertilized isn't life but you know that.

A healthy egg that hasn't been fertilized is more capable of life than a unhealthy egg that has.

Neither is life, but you know that.

All irrelevant points that don't justify the murder of 61.6 millions children.

Their final question posed: "how much longer America can ENDURE..." is not a question of justness.

The decline in crime rates over the decades has been attributed (at least partially, but to a large degree) to abortions.
One thing criminals tend to have in common is a broken family, no father active in their lives. An unwanted child would obviously most likely not be raised in the most optimal conditions.

Not saying that excuses people from being irresponsible beforehand, but the reality is...

I personally know at least one person in which this is the sole issue that decides their vote. Which is what it is... That's their choice. But that shows how powerful this issue is. And it seems possible that Republican politicians actually never cared about kids/fetuses/children... They simply wanted to pull church-goers into the voting booth to vote for their guy. I vaguely remember hearing about something backing up this theory but it's been a while.

Oh! You mean like Democrats with illegals!

W Bush wanted to grant TEN million illegals citizenship.
Both stated the move would hand the GOP millions of new members.
THAT'S where the notion comes from, from what they have stated and hoped for.

Then there's Boots-on-Ground, people from mainly Communist countries like the USSR, Cuba as well as both Koreas given 18 months free rent, citizenship, grants and interest free loans for school and to - get this - open up their own businesses! Republicans love to tell them that those programs are their babies. THAT'S why Cubans have higher R membership.

So YES, there is some truth in this bit of propaganda, except that the cynical ploy is an openly proclaimed Republican one.

Yep, Reagan got played like a sucker and turned once Republican California blue forever. Not sure why he's a hero to so many.

Yes, both the democrats and Kochsucking republicans have their reasons why they want a steady influx of people coming in.

Poor poor Ronny 'The Cowboy" Reagan. The 3,000,000, getting Jap auto cos to set up factories here so we can pretend we're somehow saving actual US auto, making a deal with Khomeini to keep the hostages till Inauguration, Iran-Contra, transporting enough coke to start the crack... Guy was just a senile buffoon that had no idea what he was doing when he did it. Sad.

Why is he a God to idiot GOPers? Same reason that other mentally deficient buffoon Trump is now. Authoritarian figures about to tear up the Constitution while bringing us to the brink of a WWIII that will never happen and going to end abortion ONE DAY that is not yet today and whose handlers do all the thinking so that they and their base of inbred drones won't have to because thinking takes effort.

Immigrants do our labor and cheaply, are responsible for 70% of small business startups, do our science & med & tech research and development, pay more in taxes (even illegals) than they take out, and oh, and keep our GDP growing because the more our consumer base grows, the more our consumer base grows because math.

Any idiot that thinks all them millionaires in office are letting them in because they're so amazingly altruistic is, well, and idiot.

the crack epidemic*

to*

I see what you're getting at, but no.. There is one very important distinction between the two.

The illegals had a mother who didn't have their child killed?

I'm sure there are hypocrite Repubs that don't care and are just using it for political reasons.

Immigration policy is the sole deciding factor for virtually zero Dems. It's an important issue but idk if it could override any other issue like abortion can. Maybe if you are an illegal yeah but.... I'm not buying that "millions of illegals voted for Hillary" nonsense. Dems aren't packing the courts in an effort to change immigration laws. Sh*t Obama even deported record numbers of illegals and he got re-elected.

When I said Dem, I meant Dem politicians.

I heard that merely turning people away at border got thrown in with the deportation numbers.

It does look like rejected applications/"turning people away" ("returns") are included in overall deportation numbers.. but it also still looks like Obama had record numbers of "removals" described as "the compulsory movement of a noncitizen out of the United States based on a formal order of removal" (400,000+ people 2011& 2012)..

Also seems noteworthy that 2012 federal immigration enforcement funding was nearly $18 BILLION— which was 24% higher than the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, Secret Service, U.S. Marshals Service, and the ATF.....COMBINED!

As far as Dem politicians.. if they're using it for votes.. where would these votes be coming from? Are you suggesting that they're trying to convince illegals to vote for them..or that Mexicans who legally become citizens will vote Dem because they're soft on illegals..? If I had to go through the legal process of becoming an American citizen, I'm not sure I would want to vote for people who "let illegals come pouring in" or are otherwise perceived as being soft on them... So ya just curious on what you're claiming their goal is here..

"I heard that merely turning people away at border got thrown in with the deportation numbers."

Yes, which skewed the figures which still doesnt change the fact that he still had them deported/barred and was also building the wall that Trump is gonna get Mexico to build in 2024.

That differs a tad from warehousing them, which is what Trump is doing. Those camps he's been building to keep them instead of getting them the hell out of here already? Those are temporary, to be replaced by prisons. Like Clinton, Trump is all for privitization of prisons, and what famous celeb real estate developer knows how to milk building big privately owned buildings with a big gov't assist *nudge nudge*?

Read between the lines, it ain't about a wall to keep them out, it's about keeping them IN. For years. At the taxpayer expense and the billionaires' gain.

Welcome to the fArt of the Deal.