Ive dealt with this and it just does not make sense

Well, see here. As a Christian myself, I can say that being gay or trans is considered "wrong" because it was not in God's design. His design was for a man to be with a woman, not a man to be with a man or a woman to be with a woman, or to change who you are.

HOWEVER, any good Christian does not condone those who are gay/lesbian/trans because we are accepting.(my own cousin is gay, for crying out loud). So, even though I may not actively support it, I will not shame others or put them down for the way they are.

Any Christian who says otherwise or does condone gay/lesbian/trans should take a closer look at their own values(and a more thorough read of the Bible)

Same

Hello there, fellow Christian!

I wasn't gonna put it in so many words but yes

Jesus Is bisexual.

Proof?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably

Your using a news article as evidence?

You do realize it’s probably biased

There's actually nothing in the bible specifying that lesbians are bad, or that trans ppl are bad. There's scriptures about homosexuality in the old testament because It was against Jewish law for men to climax outside of a va**na/not for the purpose of procreation. There's a scripture about men wearing men's clothing, but that doesn't actually say a female can't become a man as society has begun to separate the concept of gender vs. sex.

Ultimately, these scriptures are far more rare than scriptures like, love your neighbor. There's also the rare scripture to say things like, don't drink from a cracked cup/don't wear two kinds of thread together. So it's safe to assume that things like not being gay/trans is more like an extra commitment than a viable tenet of Christianity as a whole.

Check out Dan McClellan videos on YouTube for specifics on that and other subjects, and I'm talking specifics down to conjugations and context and accurate & real translations, not twisted ones filterered through a bogus agenda,,,

I love you so much. But I have studied the bible extensively as well as it's origins. I grew up super Christian and I bible bashed. I know all the points ppl make about those scriptures.

At the end of the day, a God worth worshipping is not going to punish you for thinking a concept mentioned a couple times in the bible wasn't meant to be taken that seriously.

Exactly.
And as far as what the Torah said about Sheol, it's where everybody ends up, no judging on this, that, or the other thing.
What kind of a cruel God would punish people for doing what they were given the the ability to do?

aw. thanks.

You really should check out McClellan, pretty impressive stuff.

I'm not too into that stuff anymore. I like learning about different theories on religion.

He's not doing it the fundamentalist route if that's what you think, he's just telling it as it is - literally - down to the last Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew word ending...

I'm not too into that. I spent 15 years doing that. I bet it's great tho.

Good argument. I am also a Christian.

You get a follow for this! I don't often find Christians on this site, it's good to find a brother/sister in Christ

Shaving is wrong because it was not in Yahweh's design. Having your hair uncovered is wrong because it was not in Yahweh's design. Which is rather ironic, given that the wearing of clothes is basically what Original Sin is, or at least the indicator of it.

People were made in the image of the GodS to be naked. Even their fur isn't long enough to cover them them. Let's see you follow the GodS' law on that one.

hey gang! if you accept god to be real, and acknowledge that he created everything, then everything that is possible on Earth is in his design. try kissing a man! you won’t get struck by lightning! hope this helps :3

Christianity isn't centered around acceptance. We are called to love our neighbors, but that doesn't translate to being "accepting" of their actions. Love the sinner, not the sin.

p.s. I have plenty of friends who are in the alphabet community. They're great people, but me not approving of their lifestyle doesn't equate to a phobia or anything of the like.

I don't think that's a good comparison, because if other religions said that for say, the hijab, you would call them hateful. And most ppl who wear hijab know that those rules only apply to them. They don't push islam onto others. Or at the very least they shouldn't.

Not to mention, there's more scriptures about being accepting of others than not being gay or trans, so it really should be a worse sin to not accept others than to be gay.

Exactly, Christianity isn't centered around acceptance, it's centered around conversion, turning the entirety of society into a fellow believers of a particular sect - excluding even other Christian sects as heretical tools of the Devil.

The invading, conquering, enslaving, raping, massacring of entire societies was justified by Christians because those people weren't fellow believers in the blood (spilling) of Christ

Here's how I see it:

1. Christianity isn't ALL about acceptance. The sort of general idea around acceptance was a big part of Jesus's message, but if you think that's what Christianity is all about, then I'm afraid you're quite mistaken. The way I see it, Jesus's message was about "making old things new", including purifying people's hearts and souls, making them into new people, by the power of his eventual sacrifice (I still don't understand 100% how it works, but I'm ok with that), and also giving people a new law that kind of built upon the old commandments but was more nuanced and focused on character and spiritual growth. It included more strict rules about personal forgiveness and withholding judgment of people (as opposed to actions), the idea being that now we're more trying to help sinners and non-believers rather than just staying away from them so they don't influence us. So yeah, you could call that more emphasis on acceptance, but it's not really truthful to reduce his entire message down to that.

2. What is acceptance? Obviously if acceptance is your strict policy, then it has to have some limit, or else you end up accepting non-acceptance. There are always some actions that have to be deemed unacceptable. I think with Jesus's new commandments, he's asking us to use more personal wisdom and nuance in our judgment to decide how and when to call people out for sinful behavior and when we just leave it between them and God. We all suck at making that kind of judgment sometimes, and some people REALLY suck at it, e.g. "fIRe aND BRiMsTone is yOUr dEStINY 'caUse you'RE A Guy and yoU kiSsed a GUy" and a gay person is like "I kissed a guy, so someone's gonna set me on fire?" and they're more confused and angry than penitent. Which brings me to point 3.

3. It's generally accepted that the ancient laws of the Israelites (the Torah) think of marriage as being between a man and a woman, with same-sex relations forbidden. Jesus said nothing on the matter, and subsequent Christian leaders, rather than replacing this principle with a new law as had been done with some laws, reaffirmed the idea that only heterosexual desires are to be honored. Some Christians dispute this, but most don't.

4. Where a lot of them go wrong, I think, is in just saying "homosexuality is wrong" without being specific in what they mean. I think it's pretty clear that as humans we don't always choose what to crave or desire, and that very few people choose to crave romantic/sexual intimacy with their same sex; one way or another that desire just kind of happens to some people. What matters is what desires we act upon, and when. In other words, just BEING gay is not a sin, per se, it's choosing to feed and act on that that's wrong. And honestly, I think someone who pursues their same sex romantically when they don't know about the Lord, or in their heart of hearts don't know of any good reason to believe what they're doing is wrong, is not culpable in God's eyes. Some people say that it's cruel and unusual to ask gay people to just constantly stuff their desires away, never to act on them. I don't really blame them for saying so, but honestly, for a religion of people working towards becoming a totally new person or being completely "born again", I don't think putting away your homosexual tendencies is a ludicrous thing to ask. Could I consistently put such desires aside if I were gay? I honestly don't know, but that's where forgiveness comes in. The Lord forgives sins again and again, and we should all try to do so as well.

5. As for transgenderism, I think most Christian sects interpret the beginning of Genesis as implying that our God-given sex is sacred, therefore we shouldn't seek to abandon it in favor of something else. Again, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who deeply dislike being the sex that they are, or that such people have sinned by simply having those dysphoric feelings.

Eunich's are revered in the bible. So it would go to reason that elective surgeries on male genitalia at least is not a sin.

It says homosexuality is wrong? Really? It doesn't even use the word. And when aiming at the subject, there is nothing, absolutely nothing about it having to do with women. Nothing. It's only about men, and on the receiving end, for that matter.

Pay attention; I said that saying "homosexuality is wrong" is a mistake. And the Torah may not give a blanket condemnation of all homosexual acts, but I think most Jews who adhere to the law of the Torah agree that the forbidence of male-to-male sex implies a more general principle of exclusively male-female sex. Jews have a very long history of following more than what's explicitly written in the Torah/Old Testament. (Besides, even if only "receiving" male-male sex is forbidden, then surely "giving" it is helping someone else commit a sin, which is also a sin.) But I suppose at the end of the day you could still call it a matter of interpretation in the Torah.

In the New Testament, however, the apostle Paul DOES mention women specifically in calling out homosexual acts at the beginning of Romans.

That's nice. Except I wasn't reiterating what you said.

Nor will I asking you for value judgment.

I asked you a very simple question, do you really require that I be repost the question or can you simply look at the very first thing I said in order to get said question?

Keep to the text. I've no need for a Christian opinion of what you think and the Torah didn't say but almost kind of did sorta and what anti-christ Saul/Paul said to Roman pagans to further bastardize the religion he stole from Jesus's own apostles and brother. He in no way shape or form speaks for the Torah - or anything else for that matter, other than himself. Best con in history, if you can't beat them, make them join you. That guy bested Peter with his "No, but Jesus told me he was alright with me betraying him, in fact he put me in charge now" con.

You implied that I attributed the vague statement of "homosexuality is wrong" to the Bible or Torah, which I never did. Modern society seems to define homosexuality as the emotional/sexual attraction to the same sex, so by that definition I don't believe the Bible labels homosexuality as a sin; it's the action that counts. That's what I meant to say, sorry if it was unclear.

And frankly, I find that "keeping to the text" alone in the scriptures is not very useful. If you only take the exact, explicit words of the Bible as true then you end up with a lot of contradictions. To me that makes it clear that we're to look beyond the exact, literal meaning of the words sometimes. I suppose I can understand the interpretation that lesbian behavior is acceptable per the Torah, and you certainly have a right to believe that the writings of Paul don't belong in the Bible. What I'm saying is that I think most Christians will disagree with you on those two points, and a lot of religious Jews will disagree with you on the first point about lesbian behavior, even though it isn't explicitly condemned in the Torah. Sorry if that was unclear as well.

No, you did. I asked for your source. As in specifically.
Not "something sorta almost in a way kinda practically something Torah and then one day the anti-christ Paul said something to some Roman Jesus killers so therefore... but some of my worst friendz are and something something" razzmatazz.

You're pretending you can speak for other people, and me as well. You don't.
Don't bear false witness, God don't like it. THAT'S explicitly stated.

Here's how I see it: you asked me if the Bible or Torah (it seems like you meant just the Torah, maybe?) says that homosexuality is wrong. I said no, it does not--according to my understanding of the word "homosexuality". I don't have a biblical source saying that homosexuality is a sin because there is none. As I said before, in my view homosexuality implies a pattern of involuntary feelings, whereas only voluntary choices can be considered right or wrong.
I then explained what I think IS being said or implied in both Paul's letter and the Torah. You've made it abundantly clear that you consider the writings of Paul unauthoritative, so let's agree to disagree about that and not discuss Romans 1:26-27 anymore.
As for the Torah, Leviticus 20:13 clearly condemns male-male sex as sinful, but as far as I know the Torah is silent about other kinds of homosexual acts. Sorry if that was unclear. I stated what I think is meaningfully implied in that verse (that all homosexual acts are wrong), and you heartily disagreed. I'm not here to debate on that either, so we can agree to disagree on that as well. I also stated what others seem to think on the matter, by and large. If I was wrong about that, it's because I am misinformed, not because I lied.
I have given my view (including my perception of some other people's views), which is all I came here to do. You have likewise given your view, so what else is there to discuss?

Jewish ppl had rules in their religion that allowed for exceptions tho, and christianity does not.

Also wow, I did not realize that my thoughts would take up so much space. Anyway, if you read it all, I applaud you. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

So you're saying (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) you guys believe that a part of your religion is helping the abc community be "healed" from their sexuality?

Well, generally no. I'll admit I don't know exactly how it works in practice or where the supernatural power of God kicks in, probably a little bit different for every person. But I've definitely heard of plenty of gay people who have come to be OK and happy living celibate or heterosexual lifestyles. It seems like the transformation is usually not as simple as having the homosexual desire completely obliterated, but somehow being given understanding or motivation that overwhelms it. I suppose you could even compare it Jainist monks who can apparently learn to ignore pain; in that case I honestly don't know if it's the power of God that helps them do that or if it's just a natural ability that the human mind/spirit can develop.

Yea, what I mainly am talking about is people using religion as an excuse for hate, so if a christian is hating on someone for who they are. (In my mind) i dont count them as a true christian

Majority of Christians aren’t true Christians

i have a friend that’s a christian and he’s such a racist and he always says “god will forgive me” like we’re different religions but i want his god to strike him down

Fr man, I often wish God would strike down people like that. The idea of "don't worry about sin, God will forgive you" is such a perversion of Christianity and most, if not all, of religion.

true in hinduism it’s more strict

Not that I would condone this, but by that same logic you could punch him in the face and say "hey, don't worry about it, God will forgive me."

oh crapthats actually good

yeah yeah yeah dude i’ve been wanting a reason for that les go

thx