You're a clump of cells.

Hey, at least some of them are genuine discussions

No no... they'll never admit that. That would put an end to their baby parts industry.

There's a lotta sickos out there, lotta sickos.

alr bro

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It counts as life – just like any cell – but you probably wouldn’t claim that felling a tree is murder, even though it, too, is alive (because cells).

Murder is the illegal and/or morally wrong killing of a being. Felling a tree is neither illegal nor morally wrong, so it's not murder, it's killing. Abortion is both morally wrong and illegal in some cases, therefore it is murder. Not to mention it's a human life. So no, felling a tree isn't murder.

To clarify: by murder, I did not mean the legal term, but simply killing (I'm sorry for any potential bad wording or misspelling, repetition etc. English isn't my 'main' language).

I don't think felling a tree is either killing or immoral; it was just an example to show that it is not ending 'life' that makes abortion morally wrong to you.
I assume your reasoning for why abortion is immoral is that (valuable) human life is being ended. I, too, believe that human life is inherently valuable, though not at every stage.
For example, I don’t believe that a sperm cell is just as valuable as an adult human being, and I’m pretty sure you’d agree with me on that.
On that basis, I would argue that an abortion (up to a certain point) is not very different from felling a tree.

I do agree that sperm is not nearly as valuable, but life begins at the conception of the fetus, the second that egg gets fertilized and dropped into the uterus lining and begins to develop, that's when life begins. I say it's very different from felling a tree. The difference is that us humans need wood, ergo we need to fell trees. There's no rhyme or reason to abortion at any stage when you can simply either abstain from having sex or put the baby up for adoption. There's no reason ever that abortion is okay. Ever.

What about overpopulation? Humans breed like rabbits, earth will no longer be big enough to hold it if we, as a species, kept growing at this rate.

Birth rates are going down, Thanos.

Overpopulation is not a thing. We can grow the world's food in an area slightly larger than Texas. Humans barely cover 0.2% of the earths land (assuming 1/4 acre each). The only places that are overpopulated are cities.

Could you give a source for your claims?

Basic math.

Where did you get the figures you used for your math?
Have you taken into account uninhabitable land, necessary infrastructure, etc.?
Furthermore, overpopulation means that the population is larger than the environment can sustain, and that includes stuff like current infrastructure.

Yes. It takes into account uninhabitable land, infrastructure (that's what the 1/4 acre per person is), the environment can easily sustain the current population but only if we spread out and stop congregating en masses in cities.

Once again, what is the source for your numbers?
Where did you get the Texas claim from?

Just because we don't have the resources to feed overpopulation, doesn't mean people are still going to have kids.

Please rephrase in a way that makes sense.

Ok, time to speak your native language. Food doesnt restrict sex. We could run out of food and people would still have sex.

You didn't use "aren't" which made your statement sound like people weren't going to have kids.
No food, people die. They'll have kids but will it be enough to replace the ones that starve?

I had to dumb it down. People will have kids even if there is or is not going to be food.

I think this is the wrong way to approach the debate, as Ridley regards abortion as murder; to them, it therefore sounds as though you are claiming that genocide is justified as a solution to overpopulation.

I'm saying we should use abortion for unwanted unborn children, not killing anyone in sight.

I’m aware of that and I do agree, but as I’ve already said: for people like Ridley, it amounts to genocide.
We should make the most of moments like this, when people are open to discussion, to perhaps change their minds.

And that argument won’t work very well if they believe that abortion is so morally wrong in itself. We shouldn't jump so much ahead, we need to work with their baseline.

Is abortion always wrong?

Yes.

What about cases in which the carriers and fetuses life is in danger if no abortion occurs?

Number 1: Abortion would kill the baby anyways. Number 2: Get a Cesarean Section. It gets the baby out alive, saves the mother, and we have the technology to keep it alive when it's out.

I am talking about cases in which a C-section isn't a viable option, that's why I wrote "if no abortion occurs".

And what cases would that be?

Infection, early pregnancy.

Then do what you can to save both and try your absolute hardest before committing a cardinal sin just to save one if you can't save the other.

Okay, let's assume that both WILL die if the abortion doesn't take place. Is the person performing the abortion doing something wrong?

The answer is no. It's the trolley problem, kill one human or two humans. Less is better in this case, so we abort.

When is it realistically not viable for a Cesarean?

And what technology are you talking about?

Incubators. The NICU exists for a reason.

No. Abortion is sometimes medically required. Like when a underage girl gets pregnant. That scenerio means that the girl is not ready for childbirth and the girl undergoes some form of harm to her body if she does give birth, not to mention that a young girl cannot care for a baby.

That doesn't make an abortion "medically necessary", it makes having a baby when you're a teenager highly inconvenient and somewhat more damaging than having a baby at full maturity.

You know what's worse than the damage that giving birth does to an adolescent? Getting crushed and ripped limb from limb inside your mother's womb.