Trump's indictment

Not trump's enemies.

That man is doing his best Ancient Aliens impersonation he can do.

"Indicted" indeed.

What do you know- Giorgio Tsoukalos finally got a haircut!

If you’re watching news outlets that religiously support the bourgeoise dogma of neoliberalism to the point where they won’t even question any other system, then you’re not watching real news (which is to say, well, every major news anchor)

Facts.

hell yeah, comrade (¬‿¬)

Yoo a fellow Bolshevik

Finally, someone with some common fuсking sense

If your adhering to an ideology that has been responsible for the mass murder and starvation of its own citizens and has repeatedly failed to achieve the promised utopia. Then you may be beyond hope.

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf

“American and Soviet citizens eat about the same amount of food each day but the Soviet diet may be more nutritious”

Keep in mind that this paper was made by the CIA. The fuсking CIA

https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/the-history-of-the-holodomor/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127087/

Let’s be charitable and ignore the fact that one website is Congress-approved and another is literally an American government site.

Firstly, many of the areas affected by the Holodomor famine, strangely enough, parts of the significant Russian minority. If it were a man-made famine like the article claims to be, then why didn’t it target Ukrainian nationalists like it supposedly did?

Secondly, yes, China did have a famine during the Great Leap Forward. But to say that it was a mass starvation of the Chinese people is missing so much nuance that it’s basically wrong. The famines were made due to excessive grain procurement by the state or food being wasted due to free distribution in communal kitchens. It has also been claimed that peasants neglected agriculture to work on the irrigation schemes. Mao even took responsibility for his policy errors.

Saying that socialism is an ideology that causes mass genocide and starvation is a tired argument that is very disingenuous at best.

Multiple generations of historians have proven you wrong. Exactly why should I take the opinion of yet another person who blatantly denies history to shore up their utopian fantasies as gospel. Your local library is probably overflowing with scholarly volumes about these events that were written by actual historians: many of whome actually lived through them. I suggest you do some reading, like I have. Frankly, the way you and others like you dishonor the memories of the millions of victims of Socialism by denying the obvious truth of what happened to them is highly offensive.

This is a claim that needs to be heavily substantiated but ok

I suggest you read the articles written by the late Gareth Jones: the great British journalist who personally witnessed the whole sordid affair in the Soviet Union in the early 1930's. here's a quote from "will there Be Soup?"- " “In the train a Communist denied ‘to me that there was a famine. I flung a crust of bread which I had been eating from my own supply into a spittoon. A peasant fellow-passenger fished it out and ravenously ate it. I threw an orange peel into the spittoon and the peasant again grabbed it and devoured it. The Communist subsided. I stayed overnight in a village where there used to be 200 oxen and where there now are six. The peasants were eating the cattle fodder and had only a month’s supply left. They told me that many had already died of hunger. Two soldiers came to arrest a thief. They warned me against travel by night as there were too many ‘starving’ desperate men." Somehow, the communist who denied that there was a famine reminds me of someone, I wonder who?

I repeat, you saying the famines were not man made is flat out ludicrous. Again I refer you to the articles of Mr. Jones: he extensively interviewed the common people in the Russian countryside. Without exception, they reported that their lands and livestock were seized by the government to be handed over to collective farms, large towns, and cities. They were left with practically nothing. Setbacks that they could survive in the past, since they had reserves, could no longer be overcome because their reserves were seized. And to make things worse, the poorly run Soviet railroad was so unreliable that food was left to rot in the cars of stopped trains, or left to be rained on and spoiled in town squares waiting for the trains to arrive. When you couple this, and so many other factors that literally fill volumes with the absolute indifference, and flat out malice communist governments have for their ordinary people, you have nothing less than a genocide.

Who am I kidding? You probably won't check out a single thing I mentioned: your mind is set in socialist concrete. You're probably more of a Walter Durante fan, anyway.

I never denied the famine existed, I just said it wasn’t man-made. What an absolute strawman

Yes, the famine existed. Yes, it was perpetuated to be less severe than what it was actually. The arguement is that it wasn't deliberate, it wasn't purposefully targeting Ukrainians because then you are belittling the effects it had among the rest of the SR's in the union. It was mismanagement from the government level. It was the first time socialism and mass collectivisation was put into practice. If we go back further in history, Eastern Europe was always prone to famines due to crop failures and mismanagement. Famines and mass starvations happened, in fact, all throughout history and all around the globe. I'll give you an example, The Great Famine of Ireland between 1845 to 1852. Lets not ignore that Stalin tried to build up the entire industry, farming and heavy machinery faster than any other country before which put massive strains on the economy, which is bound to happened when you switch from an undeveloped agricultural industry within 5-10 years.

They would never admit that the victims of capitalism and in it imperialism and colonialism is far worse and had far more deaths than socialism ever did. There is little to no point arguing with them about this. They will only beat you down to their level.

Speaking of which, didn’t British colonialism kill 100 million Indians in 40 years? That’s more than the black book even makes up. Emphasis on “makes up”

Don't ask them right wingers what happened to the native Australians either. Or Americans about their natives. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wdym?? Are you saying that they didn’t just move out to make room for the settlers?? /s

Ya how about during Stalin’s Holodomor? How about the Chinese under Mao? How about North Korea now? What do they eat?

For the first two, refer to what I replied to MegadrummerJ. These are just tired arguments that are extremely disingenuous at best, really.

And for the DPRK, it is unbelievably easy to make shit up about it since it’s so secretive. And people do, either for ideological purposes or for cheap clicks. Trust me, go to any article relating to it, check the sources (if you’re lucky enough there are any), check the sources of said source, check the sources of said source about said source, and chances are that, by then, the sources will either be nonexistent or anonymous.

“But what about the defectors??” I see you angrily reply with enough copium to kill a small horse. This is not to say that every DPRK defector is lying, but a lot of them do for monetary reasons. Take Yeon-Mi Park, for instance. She famously said that she witnessed someone get executed for watching Titanic, to which other defectors had basically said she’s lying, and Andrei Lankov, who is definitely no fan of the DPRK, had stated "I am very, very skeptical whether watching a Western movie would lead to an execution. An arrest for such action is possible indeed, but still not very likely." Keep in mind this is just one examples of many.

The level of denial in your response exhibits an astonishing amount of ignorance and intellectual dishonesty. Stalin and Mao starved millions of their own citizens to death due to their communist policies. Each also used communism as a guide for dictatorship because it is easily corrupted. Actually claiming that North Korea is a communist paradise with bad press is hilarious 😂.

Hell, who am I kidding, you’ll probably be stuck consooming neoliberal propaganda saying that we’ve reached the end of history and everything that happens is unavoidable. If the actual, logical counter arguments I stated won’t get your head out of your own ass, then there’s not much I can do.

You’re a Marxist which makes you an age old enemy of my country. Denying communist murder, starvation and executions doesn’t disprove them regardless of how many times you parrot propaganda from your Marxist indoctrinates.

Exactly what I mean, not much I can do.

Im not denying anything or exhibiting any ignorance or intellectual dishonestly, I simply just do the actual research and substantiate my claims without over-relying on strawmans. Something you obviously aren’t a fan of.

Yes, as a Marxist, just like others like me, I do believe that socialist countries have had their mistakes. I don’t deny them or say “not real socialism!!!” (Pakman isn’t a socialist and that’s an objective fact, I’m begging you not to associate him with us) and, through reasonable debate, see what could’ve been done instead.

I do believe the Holdomor famine was a very real tragedy and I do believe some of the famine deaths in China was caused by Mao’s policy errors, but I don’t inflate these faults to the point where I outright make shit up about them. I can understand why some people would be ignorant to spreading propaganda, but if when you can’t provide an actual argument and have to resort to insulting and name-calling, then maybe you should reconsider whether you’re in the right or not.

The only argument falling apart is that Marxism a good thing for Americans or the world. It isn’t unless you desire mass murder and mass slavery. It’s a vile and disgusting ideology too easily proffered as something the cool kids want to be. It’s a lie and always has been a lie.

“Marxism isn’t viable unless you desire mass murder and mass slavery”

Source? Like actually. Source? Socialism has had its faults, but so does every other political-economic system. For someone who’s so willing to condemn socialism’s faults, I don’t see you blame poverty in the imperial periphery and skyrocketing living expenses on capitalism.

You are denying millions perished under Chairman Mao’s “great leap forward” lie. Though you can’t deny the Holodomor that is only one of Stalin and the Soviet Unions atrocities. They are numerous and involved slaughter in huge numbers just like Mao’s “struggle sessions” unleashing violent youth on society. Just like you commies want to do now.

I literally said I didn’t deny the Holodomor famine and that I believed some of the famine deaths were due to Mao’s policy errors. But of course, understanding that requires you to actually engage in a discussion and not just lash out, something that causes the neoliberal argument to fall apart.

Linking two US government-funded websites with very one-sided perspectives and amplifies the mishaps of socialism to the point where it’s flimsy at best isn’t common sense either. I’m willing to bet $20 you were desperate enough to prove “communism is evil, actually” by finding whatever comes up first on Google and didn’t even read what you were linking.

Wrong- it's simple, obvious, proven history.

The only thing that’s true in this statement is “simple” since there is no nuance to these claims. The “history” is basically saying “water is poison because everyone who ever drank it died” about communism

No, the "History" is what was experienced, witnessed, and recorded by historians of the time, all of which is widely available to you in just about any library. Do some reading.

How ironic of you to tell me to do some reading.

Yup, you and old Walter Durante would get along together just fine.