Boycotting 101

Like broke morons boycotting Lamborghini.

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

What if they already are vaccinated

How about you explain the "racist" part lol I see no racism

Was that someone vaccinated?

What difference does it make?

Well if someone is vaccinated, but boycotts a business purely because that business wants to know their private medical information without actually needing it, then we've got a very different (philosophically) situation on our hands than someone who just wants to go somewhere without being vaccinated.

Are you referring to the HIPAA laws?

Less a statutory dispute and more the basic notion that there's a legitimate discussion to be had as to what information about someone is reasonable to request.

How is covid vaccine info unreasonable?

Is it? I don't think it is, personally. Your business, your rules. But others may not feel that way and who am I to deny them their own chance to argue their point?

Their business their rules. It's not like they're asking for your social security number, just your proof of vaccination. That's it. It's not like they can steal your info with that, anymore than handing someone your credit card info, or your drivers license.

...I know that.

I'm just really mad right now. Honestly. I am mad because I'm screaming and waving my arms at these people, and they just don't get it. I'm not mad at them for being stupid anymore I'm just mad that they're dying. I don't want them to die. I was reflecting to my wife that this must be what Jesus feels like when people don't accept him into their hearts etc.

Your desire to see them protected is admirable. However, you need to make peace with the fact that this is a free country. They can choose to do what they want. It may bother you. You might not understand why they think that way. But it's precisely because we allow for such differing views that we are such a great society

A free nation is not a conformist nation.

"Your desire to see them protected is admirable. However, you need to make peace with the fact that this is a free country. They can choose to do what they want. It may bother you. You might not understand why they think that way. But it's precisely because we allow for such differing views that we are such a great society

A free nation is not a conformist nation."

>> It's not about conformity. If a bunch of people are overboard at sea and there's enough life rings for everyone, I'm going to get mad that people are going to drown wishing they'd taken a life ring. There's nothing conformist about it. It isn't about shepharding the flock or whatever. This is just about people not protecting themselves.

Alabama Ambulances have no where to go. Their ICUs are full up because of CoViD. This means people who die for legitimate reasons (e.g. car crashes, heart attack, etc.) who could have been easily saved (by technology we have today) die because some assholes wouldn't take the f**king vaccine out of politics. People who can be saved through no fault of their own are dying. And F**king Republicans are playing politics with the Go***amned vaccine just for political favor. It's the most f**king selfish display I've ever seen.

I'm pissed that there are possibly people out there who took the vaccine, are dying because they CANT get into ICU.

This isn't about conformity, so stop calling it that.

It really is a sad situation. I'm not trying to say it isn't. But here you are cursing out all Republicans/conservatives because you're hopping mad people aren't adopting your worldview. Whether it's sensible or not isn't the point; this is, for better or for worse, the price we pay for living in a free society. : /

Yeah, you're damned right I'm cursing them out.
It's because they aren't "Adopting my worldview" that they end up getting sick and taking up spots in ICU. Which, causes more deaths because there's no room in ICU for people who need it (due to things like because some asswipes decided they didn't want to get a vaccine.

There is no excuse. Period.

This is killing people who did their due diligence.

Stop trying to keep this political. It simply f**king isn't.

JUST LOOK AT HOW ALABAMA HAVE AMBULANCES WITH NO WHERE TO TAKE CRITICAL PATIENTS BECAUSE ICU IS FULL OF UNVACCINATED COVID PATIENTS WHO MADE IT POLITICAL!

First off, your caps lock isn't going to make me feel differently than I do already.

Secondly, I still don't understand what the goal is here. Are we just blowing off steam because we know we can't do anything about what's going on? Or are we advocating for policy to change the situation?

My capslock was not used with the intention of changing your mind. Merely, to convey my complete and absolute frustration that people are dying and taking others out with them.

No, this conversation was not to serve that effect for either.

Not to sound cynical, but welcome to planet earth. Drunks choose to get drunk and kill mothers driving home to their families. Morons choose to text and drive into an oncoming semi truck. Teenagers choose to eat tide pods. Elderly people choose to commit suicide because people tell them they're worthless and a hindrance to society.

People choose to harm themselves and others in doing so. There is no way to stop it without completely destroying free society as we know it. We can mitigate it with proper rhetoric and dispensation of facts (E.G, no study has proven the vaccine will cause harmful effects), but the fact we're in this sad situation is hardly shocking.

:(

The difference with the example you use is that those people know what they're doing is wrong and they don't care. The issue here is that people have politicized this entire situation for their own personal gain just to curry favor and votes and have lied to people giving them the confirmation bias they want resulting in these deaths.

What these people are doing, even if they are aware, is criminal negligence. Your dereliction to keep yourself safe added to the death of someone else who didn't have a choice. These people do.

They had a choice to do something about it and said "No, it's fake." And now, not only are they dying, but also not giving others a choice by taking up those beds.

All this just to keep political favor with the conspiracy base they serve.

Failing to get a vaccine is not dereliction, dude! It is a choice! You can not get the COVID vaccine and still take steps that mitigate your chance of spreading it to negligible values. No statistics on earth contradict that basic fact. Therefore the onus of, "What is our social responsibility?" cannot be placed on vaccination.

There are a myriad of reasons people cite when choosing not to get the vaccine. Not all are out of baseless fear, ignorance, or distrust. There plenty who in turn haven't gotten the shot. Not all of them completely throw caution to the wind as it relates to taking basic hygienic measures to prevent the spread of disease. Pretending otherwise and projecting that negative image on the whole of the population who haven't opted to get the COVID shot is asinine and insulting.

Given the viral load in the Delta vaccine, it's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when."

Heather, a friend of mine who works in Florida, was talking about how there are four babies on ventilators because of people failing to do their part. *shrug*

I've not heard one solid reason not to get the vaccine.

There may not be one. Perhaps my desire to wait until we have more long-term data is silly. But anyone who perceives a lack of a reason not to do something as a reason to then do it is erring dangerously close to authoritarianism. I for one refuse to go that way.

"There may not be one. Perhaps my desire to wait until we have more long-term data is silly. But anyone who perceives a lack of a reason not to do something as a reason to then do it is erring dangerously close to authoritarianism. I for one refuse to go that way."

Putting on your seat belt is required by law and that only saves you. Drunk driving is illegal and it saves you as well as others. It's illegal to discharge firearms for recreational use in residential districts...

All of these points have been contested with "muh freedoms" in the past. Because there was a measured increase for public safety. Vaccines give a measured increase in public safety. I seriously see no reason anyone wouldn't get vaccinated. There is no medical precedent in which serious effects surfaced much later. How many vaccines have been developed now? People who hold out on that reason come off as having swallowed right wing propaganda whole

So you are for conformity to society. Why lie earlier then? That's what I want to know.

Before you say it's about my safety or the safety of others, I am going to tell you now; everyone with whom I work or otherwise have direct or secondhand contact has either been vaccinated, had COVID, or has told me they don't care if they get it. I'm not going around coughing up a lung in the store. I'm not touching restaurant door handles and then rubbing my itchy eye without first washing my hands. None of that. Always been a germaphobe.

I simply do not want *right now* to get a vaccine for a disease that has a lower chance of killing or harming me than Montana roads do. It's that simple. There may be no precedent for latent side effects down the line, but that is a pitifully far cry from the scientific certainty that can only come when we ourselves get further down that line as well.

Until then, the only reason someone in my shoes should get a shot is because people want me to toe a social line purely for the sake of conformity. My only answer is try and make me.

A seatbelt saves the lives of others in the car in addition to yourself (I wear mine 24/7 and think it should be a primary offense if you are not wearing one when others are in the car). Drunk drivers are a massive risk to others (I rarely drink, absolutely never drive after drinking, and wish driving while inebriated was more heavily punished because it kills so many here in MT). Getting a shot while you already take precautions that lower your risk of infecting others to nil does not help others, arguably does very little for me, and we can't prove it isn't guaranteed to hurt me down the line in ways COVID would only have a chance of doing.

Can't get on board right now, sorry. Will revisit the matter either in eight months (when my self-prescribed year-past-launch date arrives, when I have a compelling reason to get it (such as travel abroad), or if the suits strap me to a chair and shoot me up with it, whichever is sooner. 👍

*sigh*

It's just I've heard that reasoning before, and if everyone adopts your mindset, then that's how it spreads. Don't think of it as following, moreover as leading by example.

I didn't lie about conformity; this has nothing to do with that. This is about saving lives, yours and others. You don't know who the person you get into contact with has it. They can be non-symptomatic for 48 hours before they suspect. In which time, they are contagious. During that time, you pass it on (CDC/WHO says 1:4 people). Of those people you pass it onto, you don't know what they're activities are. Are they exposed to high risk people? Are they exposed to population centers?

Do you go around asking everyone these things?

This is how the virus is transmitted:
"Droplets or aerosols. This is the most common transmission. When an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, droplets or tiny particles called aerosols carry the virus into the air from their nose or mouth. Anyone who is within 6 feet of that person can breathe it into their lungs.
Airborne transmission. Research shows that the virus can live in the air for up to 3 hours. It can get into your lungs if someone who has it breathes out and you breathe that air in. Experts are divided on how often the virus spreads through the airborne route and how much it contributes to the pandemic.
Surface transmission. A less common method is when you touch surfaces that someone who has the virus has coughed or sneezed on. You may touch a countertop or doorknob that's contaminated and then touch your nose, mouth, or eyes. The virus can live on surfaces like plastic and stainless steel for 2 to 3 days. To stop it, clean and disinfect all counters, knobs, and other surfaces you and your family touch several times a day."

There is also Fecal/Oral, but... why? So you see, I get what you're saying. I do. But do you see where I am coming from? You see how easy it can be to pass on? Hell, using an elevator alone can get you sick unless it's well ventilated. You wouldn't even have to push the buttons - just stand in there.

I'm fully aware of all this, thanks for assuming I've not paid attention to science this last year.

The fact of the matter is you don't get to micromanage the life of others. We're not a nanny state. By all means make sure everyone is aware of this information, but when you say, "The problem is when everyone adopts that mindset then that's how it spreads." that is no different than saying, "I know better than others and they must do as I say to the letter."

You're not even wrong; it's highly transmissible and dangerous. But life's problems cannot be mandated away and attempting to do so only leads to authoritarianism.

Please, stop straw manning me. I'll respond later.

It's not a straw man. I absolutely understand your angle, but in this situation it's a bridge too far.

That said...

"The fact of the matter is you don't get to micromanage the life of others. We're not a nanny state. By all means make sure everyone is aware of this information, but when you say, "The problem is when everyone adopts that mindset then that's how it spreads." that is no different than saying, "I know better than others and they must do as I say to the letter.""

No, I don't get to, but when it comes to verifiabile scientifically proven data with measurable results to the well being and protection of others, it grants ground for the subject to be approached. Already, businesses are deciding to have their workers vaccinated. More power to them, the more we can get vaccinated, the better off this country will be... to help the children who can't get vaccinated.

The viral load is bigger, it's more deadlier, and the children are at risk. Especially in places where there is no hospital room. There was a mother on the news who admits not wanting the vaccine; refuses to get it. Her child has been sick for 3 weeks (at the time of broadcast) and still hasn't taken her child in. Straight up child abuse right there.

I need to see that pro-life stance right about now. Or, are you suddenly siding with the whole "My body my choice" because having the government tell you what to do with your body regardless of the risk to others is authoritarianism?

If businesses want to mandate a vaccine for their employees that's their decision. Private enterprise = private decisions. No issues there. But we need to leave that to them. Adopting the rhetoric of, "If you do not get the shot you are endangering others." is exclusive and intolerant of the nuances of life.

Sorry to hear about that mother and her kiddo. But, as I understand, it's too late to vaccinate someone after they've been infected and are symptomatic, correct? (inasmuch as actually expecting health benefits are concerned)

Ah, I was wondering when you'd attack my pro-Life ethos. But what you miss is that I have not once actually told anyone to not get the vaccine. I'm not trying to make people less safe. I'm merely arguing for the right to make a decision that ironically enough does only concern one's own body. I can tell you right now if I believed abortion was a procedure that only affected one body, that being the mother's, then I'd not oppose it.

Making an assumption about what someone thinks of another is a strawman

If you just want to make information and vaccines available so people and businesses can make their decisions privately then that's fine. But if you start shaming them for those decisions, or fail to oppose attempts to coerce them into getting a vaccine against their better judgement, then that's crossing a very dangerous line. You've crossed it. Simple as that. Still your right to express that opinion, but it's one I don't see as fair.

It’s like boycotting the White House. Not that there’s anything there that I want to see.