A brief summary of then and now.. America Last.

You got it the wrong way round.

But.. but.. but.. bu…… OPPOSITE DAY.

Damn right it is. It has been “Opposite Day” since Biden took office.

And not in a good way we went from:

America First

To

America Last

we went from:

America First (in covid cases)
to
America Last (in covid cases)

:D

You mean we started counting the cases and deaths correctly because the OrangeMan wasn’t in office? Had to make Biden look good somehow.. he’s literally failing in every other aspect - from domestic and foreign affairs to economy and beyond.

Let’s face it - he’s trash.

The BDS is real.
Lol

Who said it was a hoax? The virus is real - the numbers were not.

If you are claiming that X number of the people recorded as dying or becoming sick from covid did not actually get sick or die from covid, then for those people the virus was NOT real... Furthermore, you're claiming X number of deaths and illnesses were faked in order to make the Donald look bad and Biden look good.

That is your position here, correct?

Faked? No, not what I’m saying at all.

What I’m saying is if you are dying of Stage 4 cancer and you die WITH Covid.. it didn’t kill you - you had it when you died.

If you get in a motorcycle accident and succumb to your injuries while you HAVE Covid.. it didn’t kill you - you had it when you died.

If you happen to get shot from a firearm and bleed out in the street while you HAVE Covid.. it didn’t kill you - you had it when you died.

So why count those deaths as Covid-related? Well, the answer is to pad the numbers to make Trump look worse. Notice how everyone claims Trump did such a poor job, yet Biden - changing nothing mind you - is doing so much better? Even after lifting the restrictions?

Anyone with a working set of eyeballs and a functioning brain sponge can see that this is nothing more than a political sham pulled on the American people. A society so fearful - that they hid in their houses, wore masks that didn’t work, and ran out to take an experimental vaccine for a man-made virus with a near 100% survival rate.

To recap: The actual deaths were real and they were intentionally misattributed to covid.... meaning the NUMBER of deaths was "fake"... To make trump look bad. Right?

I mean what you are saying is basically the same thing people here were saying in defense of trump calling it a "Hoax" 8 months ago. Interesting how quickly the same excuse can do a complete 180° as far as what it means....

Also, just so you know, you might as well be trying to convince me the sky is green.

1. This "political sham", "hoax", "fake news", or whatever else you want to call it has hospitalized and killed people within my direct family and friends. So you can go on about the survival rate % and whatnot all you want.

2. I know people who work in hospitals.. (some of which are staunch republicans.) They all claimed sh*t was real and not exaggerated/ not a political hoax. I suppose it's possible all of them are lying but it would seem weird that even the repubs would lie about it.

3. You're claiming people actually died but the deaths were misattributed to covid...
.which sounds cool but more than half million more people died from all causes than normally do from Feb 2020- Feb 2021. So what do you attribute this half of a million+ excess deaths to? Seems they would either have to literally be faking actual deaths... or deaths of some other cause would have had to randomly skyrocketed and then misattributed to covid. So ya.. Where did these half million excess deaths come from? What variable besides the pandemic was different in that time frame? Besides covid, the only different variable I can think of at the time was murder hornets.... and IF half a million people actually died from murder hornets and then misattributed to covid that would have to be one f*cking ridiculously massive govt coverup!!
:o

Heart* disease.. auto-corrected, of course.

I think you are missing it. The virus IS real and WAS blown out of proportion. Fear propaganda and nothing more. It was a pretty “slow” flu season last year, yeah? How about hear disease deaths? You know, basically the leading cause of death - especially here in America - where a good part of society exists off Big Macs and Diet Coke.

Oh no, both those still exist of course.. just now labeled as “Covid”.

Think what you want to - this virus was deadly to a very small portion of society. The unhealthy, pre-conditioned, and immune-compromised.

No I think I completely understand what your argument is. I've already heard it from tons of other people here.

Idk where you're from but unhealthy, preconditioned, and immune compromised is basically America. We are now devolving into a bunch of overweight sickly f*cks. If you think that represents a small portion of our society I think you're playing yourself.

Yes, it was a pretty slow flu season. And it should be a surprise to no one that the flu numbers went way down considering how much of America washed and sanitized our hands all the time, social distanced, self-quarantined, wore masks in public, barely even went out in public, schools, jobs, bars, etc... all shutdown. The flu never had to compete with that before 2020.

Covid can effect the heart so I wouldn't be surprised if covid was the final nail in the coffin for many people with and without various heart conditions.

In any case, for your premise that heart disease and the flu deaths during the pandemic were being counted as covid deaths to be true, you would expect the total overall number of deaths in America to be more or less the same as it usually is... Except that didn't happen. What happened was a half million more deaths than normal.

So the only way for your premise to be true would be that heart disease and the flu randomly killed half a million more people last year than it usually does and those deaths were counted as covid. I haven't seen any evidence of that. Maybe you have idk (?)

:0)

pros. mehs, cons
Trump:

pros:
great economy
cheap oil
cheap food
low taxes

mehs:
jan6 we don't know what actually happened

cons:
not the best handling of covid

Biden:

pros:
slightly better handling of covid

mehs: probably has mental health problems

cons:
border crisis
high taxes
expensive gas
expensive food
abysmal foreign policy
cant seem to keep his promises
keystone pipeline shut down

my personal opinion is that trump was much better

I guess dumbasses are doing good for the country rn

They are? I guess only a dumbass could see the “good” in this administration.

I agree, Boris Johnson is a straight dumbass.

You’re not wrong. But that does leave one other in the picture. I’ll let you take a stab at who it is. Hint: it’s the one that supposedly won an election.

I don't know about "class" but I'd prefer Trump over what we got stuck with any day. At least Trump was strong (and sporadic) enough to make the us respected abroad.

Listen here.. I had to rhyme.

Yeah... I get it. I still gave you an upvote so clearly you're doing something right. ;)

Edit: us = US

Trump was literally the laughing stock of the world.

I don't care what other countries citizenry thinks about our country, policies or politicians... that's our problem to deal with. That goes for Trump, Harris and even Biden.

But as to Trump, specifically... he threw them all off base; he was sporadic and aggressive. Trump's contributions include recouping billions in one-sided trade deals, negotiating new amazingly beneficial economic deals and brokering peace in several countries. Now contrast with the sh*tshow that's transpiring at G7. Putin is figuratively bullying and Macron had the balls to walk up to him, yelling and shaking his finger in Biden's face. Between the two, insofar as foreign policy is concerned, Trump is the obvious better choice for anyone who follows US foreign relations with the rest of the world.

I really don't mind if you didn't look into foreign policy issues, Americans rarely do, but if you didn't - if you don't know what you're talking about in this regard - maybe you shouldn't chime in, brother. This is the reason people who have an irrational hatred of Trump are said to have Trump Derangement Syndrome or TDS.

You claimed Trump was respected, I pointed out he wasn't, you change goal posts and respond "It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!"

I added additional argumentation to the conversation detailing a point made by some that ambiguously backs your claim... because your argument was a shallow one. You pointed out he wasn't respected... which is an absolute... and a negative... and false on the face of it. If he weren't respected I wouldn't hear CNN - and, indeed, people in various comments sections - screeching about Trumpism. Furthermore, Trump was respected around the globe, especially in those counties where he brokered trade deals and peace accords... which are points I alluded to.

For future reference, if you make the claim of an absolute or of the non-existence of something, then only ONE example need be presented to make the claim invalid. I was hoping you'd see your way past that point since its so completely indefensible but... here we are.

Put another way, I'd never make the argument that Biden isn't respected. I'm sure, someone, somewhere thinks he's doing a bang up job... just not me and not large portion of our country... and likely not the generation yet to be born that will need to dig their way out of multiple trillions of national debt (assuming America lasts long enough). That doesn't mean Biden is not respected. A claim like that, used in a general and sweeping sense, is usually based on hyperbole for comedic affect or mental retardation.

"and not a large portion of our country"
Every opinion poll says otherwise.

Opinion poll statistics can be skewed by their distribution as well as their sample size. More unethical pollsters use that technique to create skewed statistics... you can also see a similar technique used in peer-reviewed papers. I'd need to know what poll you're specifically referring to and then look into what I mentioned above to verify its veracity. It's important to check the data yourself... the actual data and not someone else's interpolation of data sets.

Brother, you can believe what you will... I'm not saying that's bad. In fact, holding strong beliefs that YOU believe in - as opposed to what someone else told you to believe - is completely laudable. What I am saying is it's possible for a belief to be wrong... objectively. Being open to the possibility that you could me mistaken makes people better than they otherwise are.

I'm taking a break from this thread... I'll see you around.

Only a turd would abandon the Kurds.

To distract from impeachment he tried to start a war.

He trusted Putin over US intelligence

He never actually closed the China trade deal

No war was ever had or attempted, the US Intelligence was wrong - per usual, and China was put in the corner.

What reality are you living in, exactly?

Assassinating a foreign general was 100% an attempt at war. The world is better off without Solenami. That doesn’t change the fact that we killed an Iranian general on Iraqi soil without consideration of the sovereignty of either. It could have been recklessness... maybe I’m too quick to assume malice.

Intelligence was wrong - no, they weren’t

China was in a corner - both sides were hurting, but maybe. Nobody can see the future.

The China deal might have been a legitimate win. This was much like business negotiations which Trump actually had experience with. But if Trump had won, do you think the anti China rhetoric he had been running with would have helped at the negotiating table?

The man was a known terrorist - you know why there was no “war”? Because the entire world knew this. Additionally, the world knew Trump wasn’t to be trifled with. Which is great from a defensive and offensive standpoint. This is how world peace is obtained and held.

If anyone but Trump did the same - they’d be a hero. But it’s OrangeManBad.

And yes, Intelligence was wrong. How is that “Russian Bounty” conspiracy theory playing out? It isn’t - because it’s false. They wanted Trump to impulsively attack Russia over it. Unfortunately for the left, he isn’t that dumb.

And with Biden in office; it’s China first - America last. Globalism over our nation. No thank you, America is sick of globalist puppets and career politicians like Pelosi.

Would be a hero - TDS goes both ways. Even republicans in congress called him out. Tucker Carlson of all people hit the nail on the head: https://youtu.be/WlcsuJtXYkM

Yes we took shots at each other, but taking out their most famous general isn’t the same as circuitous attacks.

Attack Russia? No. There are levels and nuance to international affairs. It isn’t attack or don’t attack.

China first? You should maybe look at the policy decisions that are being made. Biden is actually sticking with a lot of the policy points, but trying to work with our G7 allies instead of going alone.

America’s is sick of... when is the AZ audit supposed to finish? Because American voted. Isolationist policies masquerading as “America first” didn’t serve us well 100 years ago and they won’t work now.

Also, Obama did attack Iran. Look up ‘Stuxnet’.

I know what it is. A worm is different from a public assassination.

How would we feel if Iraq took out one of our generals because they knew he lied and that’s what caused the Iraq invasion and 100,000 plus Iraqi deaths?

I disagree that it was an attempt at war but that is my opinion based on my background. There are pieces missing from your analysis of Soleimani that I won't hold against you... the information is not widely known.

Intelligence is simply data. Like a polygraph, it is incumbent upon human beings to interpolate data and make recommendations. From a military perspective, the recommendation will always be what most benefits America with heavy consideration into collateral damage. Going to war over unfounded rumors and incomplete date is foolish and would yield suffering on a scale that America may only realize in the near future with China.

Economically, the US was benefiting immensely from severing or curtailing certain trade deals as well as sanctions. 2020 COVID time period non-withstanding, our economy was booming and I'll not debate that point as it's widely accepted even by the likes of CNN.

I just wanted to point out that your response(s) was enjoyable. You went point by point, offering solid argumentation for each (except the MI point, but I don't expect anyone to know; and those that do wouldn't be blatant in their disclosure). Keep making responses and arguments like this! We may not agree in the end but knowing the other sides points of view can only enhance our own. Well done and an upvote for you!

I only know what I know. I also base it on it being one of the other times even republicans got riled up.

The thing is this - he was a general. Taking out a general isn't the end of a nation states plans.

Correct. Aside from the drone strikes in Syria and subsequent ousting (and icing) of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, there was no push towards war. Quite the opposite, in fact. Trump made in-roads with North Korea - walking alone across the DMZ to meet Kim Jong-Un - and established peace between Israel and Egypt (with a handful of other Muslim nations adopting in).

Conversely, we may be heading into a military conflict with China soon. Cyberwarfare and sedition have already been ongoing, even when Trump was in office... with indicators that it's been going on for much longer.

It's not surprising, however, that dyed-in-the-wool, TDS folks wouldn't know about it even if they were fairly consistently watching the news. Many news organizations either didn't report on it or spun the messaging against the former President. Many of the arguments I keep seeing in comment sections speaks to the abysmal state of our various news organizations... and saddest part is that some still defend them.

I agree George W. Bush abandoning the Kurds after Operation: Desert Storm really caused a lot of suffering for those people... as well as the Shia. I saw the aftermath personally.

I was referring to Trump, but yes, the turd title isn't limited to him. We’ve betrayed the Kurds before. A number of times, but this time we didn’t just turn a blind eye, we stepped out of the way.