Well, to paraphrase John Stuart Mill, it isn't true that most conservatives are "white supremacists, anti-women, fascist, homophobic bigots and haters" but it is true that most "white supremacists, anti-women, fascist, homophobic bigots and haters" are conservatives.
There are certain points where dissent is not accepted with both sides.
For the Left, those are currently race equality and LBGTQ rights.
On the right, based on Liz Cheney, its dissenting with the Leader.
Pew Research did a survey a few years ago and found the highest percentage of racists are found in the far left.
That's not much of a stretch considering the left is notorious for guilt transference. They blame the right for all of the bad things they do. All you have to do is look at all the racist things Biden has and is saying. Not to mention the reasons your side gives for the policies you object to. Like how you think blacks are too stupid to get voter id's.
Mills was right. Classical conservatives (aka modern liberals) are stupid. The current leftists hadn't hijacked the term "liberal" until the early 1900's. Prior to that Mills was talking about people who believe in individual liberty, small and limited government, private property rights, free trade and a free market. Modern liberals HATE all of those thing.
Modern liberals want to control or be controlled. The ones who want to be controlled don't want to have to use their brains. The ones who want to control are blithering idiots, like Biden.
"Pew Research did a survey a few years ago and found the highest percentage of racists are found in the far left."
Pew did what?
So all those Right Wing White Supremacists Militias and their Alt Right cheerleaders are far outnumbered by what outfits talking about waging a race war since Reagan?
"Like how you think blacks are too stupid to get voter id's."
Pretty sure it's the ones that keep repeating it (AKA you lot) who are the ones making the claim.
But then again, what can one expect from those who are embarrassed by their own so-called beliefs and the stupified lies they use to support them?
The rest of your contorted revisioning is silly tripe and even not worth reading.
It's your claim. Dodging it doesn't change it.
It only shows that your lies are so silly and weak, you won't even bother to pretend they have a foundation that didn't get flushed down the crapper when you were done wiping off the befuddled mess that's your face right now.
Go tighten your bib and watch out for those killer Hippies.
Hey, you're on the side that thinks blacks are too stupid to get a voter ID card. Conservatives think that blacks and every other leftist special project groups don't need you or the government to do anything for them. We can all take care of ourselves.
You guys have been lying to blacks, women, gays and everyone else by telling them they need to government to help them.
When Lyndon Johnson started his great society crap the poverty rate was at about 40%. Almost 60 years later and the poverty rate is still at 40%. The only difference is that poor blacks changed from being solidly Republican to solidly Democrat. All because of Johnson's plan, and I quote, "keep[ing] those n****rs voting Democrat for the next 100 years". He's YOUR president, not ours. Conservatives think he was one of the worst presidents in US History. Along side with YOUR president, Woodrow Wilson, who showed the movie "Birth of a Nation" in the White House. In case you're not familiar with that movie it is about the rise of the KKK.
And all you got on Trump is just the accusation of racism, no actual instance of racism. But Biden has a boat load of racist comments that you give him a pass on.
Are your meds affecting you negatively or something?
Whatever the case in your backwards ramblings shaped by confessional projection plucked from your lower intestines may be, save your guilty conscience revisioned addled fantasies for whatever 12 Step Program your therapist recommended you attend.
Your Brownshirt script is lame. Tough, I know, for you cloned drones.
But if no one reads your walls of nonsense, why bother sharting them?
You mentioned the pew survey before. I looked and couldn't find it. It sounds suspicious anyway - surveys ask questions. How would they determine who is racist? Are you racist check yes or no?
Left guilt transfer - Keep telling yourself that.
"Longtime Republican consultant Carter Wrenn, a fixture in North Carolina politics, said the GOP’s voter fraud argument is nothing more than an excuse. Republicans, like any political party, want to protect their majority. While GOP lawmakers might have passed the law to suppress some voters, Wrenn said, that does not mean it was racist. “Look, if African Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican, they would have kept early voting right where it was,” Wrenn said. “It wasn’t about discriminating against African Americans. They just ended up in the middle of it because they vote Democrat.”
Both modern liberals and conservatives developed out of classical liberalsim.
The right does have many of the core elements of classical liberalism including free market and small government. Not supporting unions varies. Classic liberalism also embraced non interference on personal freedoms and competition among philosophies. Conservatives have adopted classical conservative ideas about protecting the sanctity of traditional values. The Harm Principle says government power can only be exercised to prevent harm. So personal freedoms that conservatives have pushed back on under the guise of traditional values are not classical liberalism.
Liberals have abandoned the non-interference rules with the market, but that's partially because recessions of modern scale were thought impossible under classic economic theory which was the basis for many of the classical liberal tenants. Global economics made things more complicated. Thus liberals continued to embrace social liberalism and started to embrace the idea of positive freedom instead of negative freedom - classic liberalism had negative freedom - all rules are restrictive and take away from freedom. Positive freedom is the idea that rules can ensure freedom. Building codes, child labor laws, minimum wages - these things can ensure that the most people have the most freedoms - because living in unsafe housing while not being paid a living wage isn't freedom in our eyes. Preventing people for being fired in discriminatory ways isn't freedom either.
"liberals want government in the boardroom, not the bedroom." We don't hate the free market - we just don't see it as sacred.
I've looked a few times after I initially heard about it as well but I could never find it either. But it's common knowledge among the right that the left practices guilt transference with every problem they create. The left started as the party of slavery and they still are, they just have control of the media and so they blame their sins on the right.
It's all a great big facade. Look at all the racist things Biden says. We didn't vote for him. He didn't even win the election. You had to cheat to put a racist in the White House.
So that’s the thing that boggles my mind - I’m not blaming the right when I talk about slavery and systemic racism. We all live here. We are all responsible. I have no idea where my ancestors stood on issues. It means nothing to me.
Every once in a while someone tries to point out that most of the cities with riots were blue. Therefore systemic racism is worse in blue states. I think there are wrong, but who cares? If the hand offends, cut it off.
I seldom look to blame anyone. It is more about moving forward. I don’t care how we got here, but the mistakes of our past can help us to navigate a better future.
You want to label liberal progressive or whatever and blame that? I believe what I believe. The labels placed on it don’t bother me. Nobody who believes what I believe should support things like segregation, Jim Crow, or slavery. I can’t know how it ever I would have believed in a different time. I think I would have been a republican back in the day. But the side that supports what I think is right is the one that supports minority rights to live their lives, and I don’t just mean racial minorities. LGBTQ, Muslim, whatever. I like the zero harm principle.
I don’t think Biden cheated. Whether he’s a racist or not, he’s playing the part of not being one pretty well. He wasn’t my first choice, but given the options I’d take Biden any day.
I think it’s funny because I joked before the election to my brother who was asking how I could support Biden. Every point he brought up Trump was worse. Creepy Joe - Trump grabbing them by the pu**y and partying with Epstein. Hunter Biden - Trump hired his family. Weird racist stuff - shit hole countries//Brooklyn five.
I would hope that most people were like you. When I talk about the left being racist I mean the politicians and many of their policies.
I don't think it is right to focus on specific groups and their rights. I think the US Constitution enumerates the rights that we all have been given by our Creator. When you talk about any rights above that and only for specific groups then you cease talking about rights and are talking about privileges.
A right is a freedom that does not infringe on someone else's rights. We already have those rights listed in the Constitution.
I cannot see what right an LGBT or black or anyone else needs above those rights, therefore, they must be privileges. A privilege is a liberty that shows preference or infringes on someone else's rights.
Everyone is protected by the law from being beaten, killed, robbed, raped, etc. So what more do these specific groups need?
We've added hate crime legislation so that now the law can add more punishment based on color of skin or sexual orientation of the victims.
My only reason for voting for Trump this time wasn't because of which candidate was less creepy. I would prefer not to have a creepy president but even more I prefer to not have a man who never was playing with a full deck as president especially now after he has gone senile. Biden is and always has been an awful human being and a partisan hack. Biden is not running the White House right now. There are handlers who are making all of his decisions for him and they are trying to finish Obama's "fundamental transformation" of America.
I see your point. I do. Too many times people try to pass laws for good reasons make mistakes. Simple is better.
And if it worked that way in practice, I would be all for it. But it doesn't.
Per the Government Accountability Office, there are over 1000 statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor and a number of rights/benefits: immigration sponsorship, income tax deductions, family visitation rights, next of kin status, tax free inheritance, making medical decisions. If you want to argue that states were wrong to every block same sex marriage (government's job should not be morality). But even I will admit I have exceptions. Sex with minors for instance. Of course, that comes down to the harm principle.
If you wanted to redesign and remove all restrictions that have snuck into the law, then that might be an interesting thought exercise...but that would be a huge change.
Worse punishment based on - I think that's only if it is concluded to be a hate crime, and that isn't automatic. https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes
There could be (and probably are) hate crimes against Whites and Christians. But they are more common against others. Instead of railing against laws that we (thankfully) don't need at the moment, we should be thankful.
Did you know that the death penalty is given most frequently if the victim is a white woman? In Texas, 3x as likely. That isn't the law, but it is an observed trend. SCOTUS had previously ended the death penalty for a while due to the fact that black people received it more often - they interpreted this to be cruel and unusual punishment, focus on the unusual part.
I think you are wrong about Biden. Honestly, I was hoping early on that it was true because he wasn't my candidate...then when he finally came out and debated, I had to admit he carried himself well....not great, but he didn't crash and burn. Same when he faced Trump. For both of us, its a mix of believing the 'press' and wishful thinking. I know he stayed out of the limelight...but that turned out to be a good strategy. Trump is best with an opponent, he doesn't do as well when he doesn't have someone to spar against. Fundamental transformation of America - I think that's paranoia. You should look back at all of the Obama predictions. We were supposed to be mad max by the end of his second term.
I do to. So many times when I make a comment I get attacked and that just kind of sets me off. I really have to fight the urge to respond in kind. Because then someone like you (who I forgot that we had a civil conversation a while back) comments and I respond incorrectly because I automatically assume it is just another attack.
I apologize if I said anything offensive and if I forget (cause the older I get the more forgetful I get) and say something offensive or defensive just punch me in the face. :)
"I see your point. I do. Too many times people try to pass laws for good reasons make mistakes. Simple is better. "
This is where I really agree with the Libertarians. There are just too many laws on the books right now. Many in the Libertarian party are saying things like for every new law Congress should be made to repeal 10 laws. There are so few new laws that we need, far less than what gets passed.
"If you want to argue that states were wrong to every block same sex marriage (government's job should not be morality)"
I want city, county, state and federal governments completely out of the marriage business altogether. Marriage started as a religious rite. It is a covenant between God, a man and a woman. God set the terms of that covenant and man cannot change it.
Marriage should go back to the churches and the churches can decide how they want to perform marriages.
When two people love each other then the profess that love to God in a marriage contract. Governments cannot and do not have anything to do with love. Professing your love to the government is like professing it to a rock.
Some churches put the will of man above the will of God and will perform same sex marriages and that is their right. So if a gay couple want to marry then they would have to do it in one of those churches.
If for whatever reason anyone, gay or straight, wants to legally bind themselves to someone else then states can provide some type of civil union.
This is how this entire situation should have been handled. That way Christians, Jews, Muslims and any other religion that believes that marriage is between God, a man and a woman do not have to have the Supreme Court completely overstep their authority and unconstitutionally make law and impose on people who would have otherwise voted it down. This was a very bad decision by the Court because it gave the Court power they never had before.
That's not much of a stretch considering the right is notorious for guilt transference. They blame the left for all of the bad things they do. All you have to do is look at all the racist things Trump has and is saying. Not to mention the reasons your side gives for the policies you object to.
Who was it who had open racist Stephen Miller in his administration? Oh yeah, Trump.
"Classical conservatives (aka modern liberals) are stupid."
If you think modern liberals are classical conservatives you're beyond help. That's incredibly stupid.
"Prior to that Mills was talking about people who believe in individual liberty, small and limited government, private property rights, free trade and a free market. Modern liberals HATE all of those thing."
No they don't. Do you know how I know that? Because I'm a liberal and I support most of those things.
Modern conservatives want to control or be controlled. The ones who want to be controlled don't want to have to use their brains. The ones who want to control are blithering idiots, like Trump.
As far as I know Trump made one statement that sounded racist. But if it turned out that Trump was secretly in the KKK any support he had among the conservatives would dry up instantly. I know I'd dump him in a heart beat. I didn't think he was all that great to begin with.
I don't blame anything Trump did on liberals. That's insane. He did some things that if a Democrat did it, he would get praise for. He spent money just as fast as Obama did. That was wrong and the left was completely silent on that. But for that matter so was the right.
You clearly don't know what a classical liberal stood for. Go to Wikipedia and look up classical liberal and ask yourself when was the last time you supported a small and limited government? When was the last time you supported low taxes, free trade, the free market? When was the last time you supported individual liberty?
That is the Wikipedia definition of a classical liberal and it is exactly what modern conservatives stand for.
It's like I have been saying all along, the early 20th century Progressives hijacked that word to hide who they really are because America has always been classical liberal but Progressives are clasical conservatives and they knew it back then.
If you truly support "most" of those things then why are you arguing with me? What things don't you support? I ask because all of those things are interdependent on each other so if you don't support one then you cannot logically support all of the rest. Everything revolves around individual liberty, not collective or group liberty at the expense of the individual.
The left is only concerned with group liberty which is not even liberty. That is why they have a handful of special groups that they claim to represent. You look at those groups as all thinking identical to each other. It is Marxism. It is collectivism.
"But if it turned out that Trump was secretly in the KKK any support he had among the conservatives would dry up instantly"
That's why so many Trump supporters on Jan 6 had confederate flags?
"You clearly don't know what a classical liberal stood for. Go to Wikipedia and look up classical liberal and ask yourself when was the last time you supported a small and limited government? When was the last time you supported low taxes, free trade, the free market? When was the last time you supported individual liberty?"
I have mixed feelings about small government and taxes. But I've always supported the free market and individual liberty.
"That is the Wikipedia definition of a classical liberal and it is exactly what modern conservatives stand for."
Then how come many modern conservatives oppose equal rights and legal protections for LGBTQ people?
"Progressives are clasical conservatives and they knew it back then"
How do you define classical conservative?
"If you truly support "most" of those things then why are you arguing with me?"
Because you think liberals oppose all of those things, and that's false.
"What things don't you support?"
Small government, to an extent
"I ask because all of those things are interdependent on each other so if you don't support one then you cannot logically support all of the rest"
Sure I can
"Everything revolves around individual liberty, not collective or group liberty at the expense of the individual."
I'm not sure what group liberty even is, if there's no individual liberty. You can't have a Lego house that's not made of individual Lego bricks.
"The left is only concerned with group liberty which is not even liberty"
That's not true. You're trying to lump everyone on the left together and say they all believe this.
"You look at those groups as all thinking identical to each other"
"Then how come many modern conservatives oppose equal rights and legal protections for LGBTQ people?"
How are LGBTQ people less protected under the law? What kind of "rights" do you want them to have that they don't already have? Do you want them to have rights that the rest of us don't have?
A right is a freedom that does not infringe on other people's rights. So when people start demanding rights then what rights don't they have?
Our rights derive from our Creator and cannot be taken or given by anyone other than our Creator. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in a Creator or not rights do not derive from any other man, woman or government. They cannot be taken away by any man, woman or government. Governments have a very long history of preventing people from exercising their rights but very few have protected our rights. Our Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are the only documents that have defined where rights come from and the government's responsibility is protecting our rights.
So tell me what rights are conservatives opposed to? Especially when we are the ONLY ONES trying to protect and preserve our rights for all people, even LGBTQ people. The left is all about taking rights away from one group and giving privileges to others but only until the left achieves total control then all rights will be trampled on.
"How do you define classical conservative?"
Classical conservatives believe that because mankind is basically bad that they need a very big and powerful government to control them. That shows up in how the left looks at businesses. They believe that all businesses are driven by greed and without strong controls they will cheat everyone. Or worse they believe the fiction that businesses can actually control people.
"Because you think liberals oppose all of those things, and that's false."
If they did support those things they wouldn't vote Democrat. I don't think they understand those things.
"I'm not sure what group liberty even is..."
LGBT rights, women's rights, black rights, etc. Anything that promotes the group above the individual.
"That's not true. You're trying to lump everyone on the left together and say they all believe this."
There is a difference between a liberal (modern liberal) and a leftist. Liberals have a little common sense but left has no common sense whatsoever. Most Democrat voters are liberals, all Democrat politicians are leftists. Liberals are not always group thinkers.
"That's why so many Trump supporters on Jan 6 had confederate flags?"
I don't recall seeing pictures of Confederate flags at the Jan 6th peaceful protest (I'm just using the same speech the media uses when describing Antifa/BLM riots) but I am also not doubting you either.
When I used to go to Tea Party rallies people from the news media would show up with guys who were wearing Neo-Nazi or KKK shirts. The media would make sure those people showed up in the coverage of those events and then the media and the Neo-Nazis/KKK t-shirt wearing guys would all pack up and leave.
The media does similar things at the Antifa/BLM protest/riots. They show up during the day when all of the peaceful people are just protesting. When the sun starts to set the media packs up and goes home. Most of the peaceful protestors go home and then the riots start after that.
So seeing Confederate flags at the Jan 6th protest could have been staged.
However, Confederate flags do not automatically mean racism. I have a Confederate flag because I was born in Georgia and even though I grew up in So. California I am proud of my family and my heritage. I am not proud of the one or two slave owners in my genealogy but I do know that one of my ancestors treated their slaves about as good as they could given the awful circumstances of one person thinking they have the right to own another person. That ancestor let his slaves marry and built them new couple a home. The built a school to teach both their kids along with the black kids. Despite the fact that in some states that was illegal.
I do not think I am better than blacks or any other race. I do not think my race is better than any other race. In fact the superior races are Jews and Asians. They're just smarter than the rest of us. I don't hate them for that, I admire them for that. It must be something in their diet, I don't know. And it is interesting how the left has finally started to show more openly their disdain for Jews and Asians.
"I have mixed feelings about small government and taxes. But I've always supported the free market and individual liberty."
You cannot have a free market and individual liberty unless you have a very small and very restricted government and low or no taxes. There are anarchists who would argue that you cannot have a free market with a government and essentially the are correct but you can have a much freer market with a extremely limited government.
LGBTQ have always had the right to marry opposite genders just like everyone else.
Don't ask don't tell was for all genders. 2017 act only reinforced what was practiced around the country by nearly everyone.
They had the same rights - they couldn't marry the people they loved or planned to build a life with. I'll lump that with laws preventing interracial marriage which were finally rejected by the supreme court in 1967.
I'm going to assume that was a half-ass argument you actually aren't going to defend and move on.
Don't ask don't tell - straight people could get married, have kids. DADT was a step forward, but saying it applied equally to both is why we now have terms like equity.
Practiced around the country by nearly everyone isn't a right.
No, it's equal rights. Same sex unions have been legal for a while and provide the same government tax breaks as marriage. Marriage is a religious concept and the government has no say on it in the US.
Also the ceremony can be performed without the approval of the government so why are LGBQTXYZ up in arms and about it?
Yes it is. And has been for thousands of years. Marriage was ever deemed holy long before it was profanized and downgraded a civil thing. Be it initiation rites by natives, be it Holy Sacrament- virtually every culture but degenerated ones sanctified matrimony (and still do) no matter what creed or religion.
Its a religious concept, I don't care what the LGBTXYZ crowd say. Like most things they are trying to steal it. So they hate religion, but want to do a religious ceremony in a church. Figure that one out.
Very few LGBTXYZ people stay together for more than a few years and they sure don't stay faithful, which is fine, but that is what marriage is.
"Its a religious concept, I don't care what the LGBTXYZ crowd say."
Many religions have marriage ceremonies. That doesn't mean marriage is necessarily religious. If it were religious, you couldn't go down to the county courthouse and get a marriage license. But people can do that in the United States, because it is not a religious thing, it's a civil thing.
"Like most things they are trying to steal it. So they hate religion, but want to do a religious ceremony in a church. Figure that one out."
LGBTQ people are not trying to steal marriage. Do you know what the word "steal" means? It means to take something which belongs to someone else so that they no longer have it. Allowing same-sex couples to get married does not stop heterosexual couples from getting married. Heterosexual people do not own marriage and it was never stolen from them.
"Very few LGBTXYZ people stay together for more than a few years and they sure don't stay faithful, which is fine, but that is what marriage is."
Not only is that a very ignorant thing to say, it's false, like much of what you say. Many same-sex couples have been together for years, even decades. After same-sex marriage was legalized nationwide in 2015, there were same-sex couples who got married who had been together for 20 or 30 years or more. And yes, same-sex couples are faithful and committed to each other. You're a very ignorant person whose view of LGBTQ people is clouded by your bullshit religious lies.
When the left clearly espouse Marxist ideology and have been doing so for decades then the right is correct in calling the left Marxists. When the left pushes Critical Race Theory on school kids the we are correct in saying that you are anti-white racists. There is not truth to Critical Race Theory. The fact is that it picks up on Critical Theory which indisputably Marxism and changes the oppressed/oppressor from poor vs rich to black vs white.
I never said you or the left was anti-woman. But if the sum total of what the latest wave of feminism is just abortion then the left has no interest in women, just killing babies under the guise of feminism.
What you need to realize is that we have actual reasons to brand you as such because that is exactly who you are. But the left has to fabricate charges against the right. You call us racist and as your proof you point to a handful of idiots in bedsheets who have nothing to do with the conservative movement. That isn't proof that is just your (not you specifically) way of trying to justify you lying about who the right is.
"When the left clearly espouse Marxist ideology and have been doing so for decades then the right is correct in calling the left Marxists. When the left pushes Critical Race Theory on school kids the we are correct in saying that you are anti-white racists."
Again, you're trying to lump everyone on the left together and say they all think and believe the same thing.
"But if the sum total of what the latest wave of feminism is just abortion then the left has no interest in women, just killing babies under the guise of feminism."
Abortion is about a woman's right to control her own body and reproductive choices.
"What you need to realize is that we have actual reasons to brand you as such because that is exactly who you are."
No, that is your caricature of everybody on the left, even though not everybody on the left believes or thinks the same things.
"But the left has to fabricate charges against the right."
No we don't. Do you actually believe that there's nothing at all people on the right deserve criticism for? I'm really serious. Do you actually believe people on the right never do anything wrong?
You posted a comment quite a while back which I never got around to replying to, but in it you said that fascism is on the left side of the political spectrum, and virtually every scholar and historian disagrees with you.
"You call us racist and as your proof you point to a handful of idiots in bedsheets who have nothing to do with the conservative movement."
It doesn't matter if they're not part of the greater conservative movement, they themselves are conservatives.
"Again, you're trying to lump everyone on the left together and say they all think and believe the same thing."
Liberals are a little more independent in their thinking but leftists all march in lockstep with each other because they have an agenda to promote. The left exerts control over other leftists and liberals by saying that you deviate from the narrative then you are a racist, sexist, homophobe and or bigot.
If you completely reject the agenda then you are permanently branded a racist, sexist, homophobe and bigot without any regard to the truth.
"Abortion is about a woman's right to control her own body and reproductive choices."
And every time a woman exercises this "right" a human life is snuffed out. If Planned Parenthood is performing the abortion then they rip the baby apart while it is still alive and sell off the parts for research money.
"No, that is your caricature of everybody on the left"
Like I said, liberals and leftists are not always the same people. Leftists all believe the same thing. Liberals can or don't always believe the same things but no liberal or leftist believes in small government, low or no taxes, all political power originating in the individual (aka individual liberty), free markets (which Marx labeled as capitalism). The younger liberals/leftists don't even respect our founding fathers any more. They aren't taught about them in school and the great contribution they made to the world. All they are taught is that they were a bunch of old white slave owners.
"You posted a comment quite a while back which I never got around to replying to, but in it you said that fascism is on the left side of the political spectrum, and virtually every scholar and historian disagrees with you"
Virtually every leftist scholar since the 1940's. Prior to that the only one who said fascism was right wing was Stalin when he was trying to insult Mussolini because Mussolini didn't control businesses like Stalin thought they should be controlled. So Stalin called him a right winger.
Mussolini was an Italian socialist before he rose to power. He and another person, whose name I cannot remember, modified socialism in what they thought would make it better. They also borrowed from Hitler's ideas and that is why many times Hitler was called a fascist.
When Hitler's atrocities were reported in the United States the Progressives dumped Nazism and fascism. They used to revere Hitler and Mussolini and were not shy about it at all.
"If you completely reject the agenda then you are permanently branded a racist, sexist, homophobe and bigot without any regard to the truth."
And if someone says that, they're being irrational, so why does what they say matter?
"And every time a woman exercises this "right" a human life is snuffed out."
And it's being snuffed out at such an early stage it feels absolutely nothing, so what's the problem?
"If Planned Parenthood is performing the abortion then they rip the baby apart while it is still alive and sell off the parts for research money."
The fact is that the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester, long before the fetus can feel any pain. Also, most abortions involve simple suction, not ripping anything to pieces. That's a common lie and scare tactic frequently used by anti-abortion activists.
"no liberal or leftist believes in small government, low or no taxes, all political power originating in the individual (aka individual liberty), free markets (which Marx labeled as capitalism)."
I'm pretty sure there are libertarians who describe themselves as liberal who believe in those things.
"Virtually every leftist scholar since the 1940's. Prior to that the only one who said fascism was right wing was Stalin when he was trying to insult Mussolini because Mussolini didn't control businesses like Stalin thought they should be controlled. So Stalin called him a right winger."
Mussolini was a fascist, so he was right wing
"They also borrowed from Hitler's ideas and that is why many times Hitler was called a fascist."
Hitler incorporated numerous fascist ideas into his government.
"When Hitler's atrocities were reported in the United States the Progressives dumped Nazism and fascism"
Proof? When did they ever openly support it? Nazism and fascism are in direct conflict with the values of progressivism.
"And if someone says that, they're being irrational, so why does what they say matter?"
I only care when it starts affecting people's lives. When they lose a job or they constantly get harassed by Facebook or Twitter for not believing the leftist rhetoric.
The reason I left Facebook is I was constantly getting "fact" checked whenever I posted something. FB's fact checkers are NOT checking for the truth, they were putting their opinion on my comments and claiming it was the truth. Then the would ban me for a day, a few days, then a week. Imagine going to a grocery store and getting banned because I bought Jif peanut butter instead of Skippy. That's what FB and Twitter does.
And conservatives have lost their jobs just because they were conservatives. Gina Carano lost her part on Disney's The Mandalorian TV show just because of her politics.
"And it's being snuffed out at such an early stage it feels absolutely nothing, so what's the problem?"
So then you can kill people if they don't feel it? Is that how it works? So then you're a "nice" barbarian.
"So after WWII had started the Progressives hid who they were. They went underground and the pushed fascism and Nazism off as "right wing". Ever since then schools have been teaching the fascism and Nazism are in the right even though they are just two difference variations of socialism"
This sounds like another conspiracy theory to try to claim that Nazism and fascism are left-wing when in fact they never were
"Nazi is an acronym in German for National Socialist German's Worker Party. They even have socialism is their name"
That means absolutely nothing, because North Korea has the words Democratic and Republic in their name, but they are neither.
"So when I said that fascism and Nazism are on the right, I meant it. I don't care what every left wing professor or teacher taught us in school. That was a lie."
Fascism has always been right-wing. Saying that what a person says is false just because they're on the left is a logical fallacy
"The true political scale does not put socialism and communism on the left and fascism and Nazism on the right. To do so leaves no room for freedom. The true political scale puts totalitarianism and authoritarianism on the left and anarchy (no government) on the right."
Freedom is in the middle. Also, if what you're saying were true, then no conservative could be totalitarian or authoritarian, and that's simply not true. Conservatives can be totalitarian and authoritarian just like people on the left can. I know you don't want to, but you just have to accept the fact that people on your side of the political spectrum can be controlling and totalitarian and evil just like people on the other side of the spectrum.
"So an extreme right winger believes in no government at all."
False. An extreme right-winger can believe in no government, or a very totalitarian and restrictive government, like a theocracy.
Author H.G Wells who was a part of the Progressive (socialist, communist, fascist and Nazi) movement called himself a "Liberal Fascist".
So after WWII had started the Progressives hid who they were. They went underground and the pushed fascism and Nazism off as "right wing". Ever since then schools have been teaching the fascism and Nazism are in the right even though they are just two difference variations of socialism. Nazi is an acronym in German for National Socialist German's Worker Party. They even have socialism is their name. Fascists chose that name from the latin word fasci which means a bundle of sticks. It is represented by sticks tied together with a war axe also part of the bundle. The idea is that everyone is held together as a collective.
Since Mussolini's days fascism has been redefined over and over again. Today it sometimes just means racism, even though Mussolini wasn't particularly racist. Hitler wanted a Germany only for pure Germans. Mussolini just wanted an Italy for everyone who lived in Italy and didn't care where they came from as long as they supported him.
So when I said that fascism and Nazism are on the right, I meant it. I don't care what every left wing professor or teacher taught us in school. That was a lie.
The true political scale does not put socialism and communism on the left and fascism and Nazism on the right. To do so leaves no room for freedom. The true political scale puts totalitarianism and authoritarianism on the left and anarchy (no government) on the right.
So an extreme right winger believes in no government at all. This is not to be confused with anarcho-communists. Anarcho-communists believe is eliminating the existing government to replace it with a communist government. Anarchists, sometimes they refer to themselves as anarcho-captialists or voluntaryists, do not want any government to replace another. They don't want any government at all.
They believe the only way mankind will ever be truly free is with the absence of government. I cannot disagree with them given that all governments start or turn corrupt and begin to take power and freedom away from the individual. However, I am not an anarchist. I am a Constitutionalist. And even though our government has turned corrupt it didn't start off that way and I believe if enough people truly understand the beauty of what our founding fathers left for us they would fight to return to it.
Um. Yes, that has happened where the husband is in one political party and the wife is in another but Liz Cheney is a Republican and so is her husband Phil.
Dick is her dad.
As far as the left goes... yeah, there are certainly liberal Republicans. Trump comes to mind as he was a former Democra but Cheney's record paints her a stark conservative. She's pro-life, for increasing Defense spending, for cutting taxes to promote economic growth, against tax increases, against federal regulations for greenhouse gases and development for renewable energy, completely anti-gun control, for repealing the Obamacare, supported Trump's border wall, she's strict on immigration admission, and against withdrawal from Middle-East affairs.
I'm not personally saying Christians in America are oppressed, I'm using leftist logic to argue the point. (For example white on black violence doesn't make up the majority of violent crimes, but the left seems to push that white supremacy is the greatest danger in America today.)
Summary: BLM wants justice reform. The Boogaloo bois want to overthrow the corrupt government. They are actively working for a second civil war. Many of the rights cries are dusted off Anti-sematic tropes. The comfort with considering people to be 'them'. You don't oppress people you see as equal so you have to start with establishing that difference.
I doubt I'll convince you, but when has that ever stopped me? I concede the left, just to get that out of the way. BLM protests did more damage, by far, than Jan 6th. But their goal was racial justice. At least, most participants including me think that is the goal. I won't argue whether there are ulterior motives.
They may have rioted on occasion, but their end goal was officers being tried for crimes. When you consider the scope of the events, ~25 deaths associated, and many of those were protesters or rioters. This is unfortunate, but honestly not as large as you would think. << I'm not minimizing, just saying that killing was not the goal.
In comparison, the Boogaloo Bois planned and ambushed a guard for a federal building and later killed a police officer trying to make it look like BLM was doing it.
A different group of Boogaloo Bois torched the Minneapolis police station
You have the militia group that planned to kidnap governor Whitmer 'and try her for treason'
Ignoring specific events - Its the comfort with the idea that the idea that our government is corrupt to its core. And it would have to be for all of the Covid exaggeration and election stealing to be true.
The separatist way of talking - when Trump vs the squad for example, "they are telling us how to run our country". Us and them. Us doesn't include 3 native born American citizens and 1 naturalized citizen, all of who are elected congresswomen? Why not?
Unite the right rally. You will not replace us.
The belief that the Left always cheats in elections -> Trump opened a commission and then disbanded it with no findings. When you convince yourself the 'other team' is cheating, you can justify cheating yourself.
They are trying to take our country. We are the only real Americans.
First off, not trying to be mean or anything, but this is one of the hardest-to-read comments I've ever seen. I suggest writing a bit more clearly.
Anyway, a large part of BLM seems to want racial revenge, not racial justice. Some for widespread racial wrongs committed long before any of us were even born, some for racial prejudices mostly stamped out before most of us were born, and some for perceived widespread racial wrongs in America today.
Not trying to minimize things, but you pointed out 1 person the Boogaloo Boys (who, to be completely honest, I know pretty much nothing about, but doubt they're exclusively white) killed. Don't see how that's as big a threat as ISIS.
I mean, the government is corrupt to its core. Politicians are people, and people are often selfish and greedy.
To be fair, both the right and left speak in "us vs them" terms. I don't think it would be very factual to accuse one of such more than the other.
I'm all for constructive criticism. I probably tried to fit too much in the character limit.
Examples of racial revenge from BLM?
Boogaloo numbers - it doesn't take many terrorists to do a lot of damage. They are a group who believe a civil war is imminent - most of them are white beause they think it will be a race war...but to be fair I've read that there is disagreement internally, with some factions feeling that it won't be a race war, it will be everyone against the government. Either way, others were indicted for trying to block the investigation of the guy who ambushed the guard and killed the sheriffs sgt.
Isis - they are specifically talking about internal threats. I don't know that they rank whether internal or external threats are worse...but honestly, no empire falls from without. If Isis attacked us we'd come together. Internal strife isn't likely to do that.
Both sides Us vs Them - Maybe, but it seems worse on the right. Maybe that's just me, but I don't think most conservatives are bad. I get a lot of energy that for a lot of conservatives they think a good liberal is the exception.
A riot is what happens when you have a group that feels like they have no recourse - the system has failed them. What are they to do? bend over and take it? I think riots are more a combination of anger, frustration, and powerlessness.
Reparations - honestly, I don't know how to go on that. What is the debt for what happened? If my dad worked for someone and died on the job, I would have expected his wages to go to my mom. If both my dad's boss and my parents had died without ever paying, would I still be owed? I'm not saying I know what the right thing to do is there, but I also don't know what the statute of limitations should be on enslavement. Above my paygrade is what it is.
ReasonTV did a fairly balanced profile of the boogaloo with interviews.
I don't spend a lot of time on twitter. It is a true thing that it is always harder to see your own side clearly. Even so, I think the nationalism (bordering on ultra nationalism with some) and lying cheating liberals combined with conspiracy theories has pushed some on the right to a point where they see the left/democrats as an enemy. There's a difference between thinking someone believes dumb things and thinking they are malicious.
SydneyB - we reached the end of the thread...
Does that work as a justification for Jan 6 - yes, indeed it does. 100%.
Which is why Trump should be in jail. He told people things were true that weren't. Even though he said that they should stay peaceful, he also told them that their nation was being stolen by an evil plot. To me, it would be like my wife making up a story about somebody touching her inappropriately and then asking me not to do anything about it. She has to know that isn't happening.
Now if by some stretch of the imagination I am wrong and the election was stolen, then they were right. Absolutely. But evidence doesn't support that claim.
People had doubts about the mail in voting, votes accepted after the deadline, 6 ft rule for observers around counters, boarded up windows where counting was done, voting machines being able to be hacked etc before Trump said anything. So I don't think he should be jailed, or else Pelosi, AOC, Waters should definitely be jailed for promoting violence during 2020. Dem politicians said voting machines were a risk in 2018.
You think the election wasn't rigged and I think the blm narrative is way overblown but everyone has the right to protest. It just needs to be peaceful. I don't condone Jan 6th but I get the frustration after seeing the left riot for 9 months and the criminals get out of jail w/o even bail after looting, arson and the like.
Doubts are fine. But things like "ballots accepted after" were addressed. The decision to accept the ballots in pa was made by the court because the USPS said that the prepaid mailers used wouldn't be postmarked by default. The USPS says they had advised that they must be postmarked to staff, but since it was out of the norm, it might not happen consistently. So pa decided to accept any that weren't postmarked that were received by the deadline.
Voting machines are hackable, which is why they are kept offline and why a paper ballot is printed for auditing purposes.
To be clear, what you have is, at most, the opportunity for fraud. That doesn't mean there was fraud.
And trump knew all this. Barr said there was no evidence of fraud.
Is AOC, Pelosi, anyone can be demonstrated to somehow know that they were spreading lies about racial injustice, then absolutely, send them to jail.
My understanding is charges were dropped I'm done cases due to lack of evidence. If it is more pervasive than that, is like to know.
Actually, despite already writing a lot, I think I have a more concise way of explaining why White Nationalists are a threat.
As of polls in April, the majority of Republicans still believe that Trump won. If the election was stolen then it is your patriotic duty to overthrow the government. That attitude and belief that the government is rotten to the core and needs to be overthrown is scary. Democrats aren't fellow Americans with different views - nope, they are a pox trying to destroy America.
You may not see this as a white supremacist thing, but the groups most embracing and pushing these theories are the boogaloo groups who want another civil war. The Proud Boys and their West is Best repackaging of white power. (It almost sneaks past your mental defenses, because they aren't actually saying 'white' are they?)
I'm not arguing that all Trump supporters or conservatives are white supremacists. Far from it. Those groups have gotten good at propaganda. If all conservatives were part of it, then boogaloo groups wouldn't need to frame BLM.
So either you conclude that the FBI and DHS are dumb/wrong/liars/deep state, or you think about (or better yet, read about) why they think white supremacist's are a bigger threat than the other threats.
Among Domestic Violent Extremists (DVEs), racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists—specifically white supremacist extremists (WSEs) - will remain the most persistent
and lethal threat in the Homeland. Spikes in other DVE threats probably will depend on political or social issues that often mobilize other ideological actors to violence, such as immigration, environmental, and police-related policy issues.
• WSEs have demonstrated longstanding intent to target racial and religious minorities, members of the LGBTQ+ community, politicians, and those they believe promote multi-culturalism and globalization at the expense of the WSE identity. Since 2018, they have conducted more lethal attacks in the United States than any other DVE movement.
• Some WSEs have engaged in outreach and networking opportunities abroad with like-minded individuals to expand their violent extremist networks. Such outreach might lead to a greater risk of mobilization to violence, including traveling to conflict zones
• Other racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists could seek to exploit concerns about social injustice issues to incite violence and exploit otherwise peaceful protests movements.
Another motivating force behind domestic terrorism that also poses a threat to the Homeland is anti-government/anti-authority violent extremism.
• These violent extremists, sometimes influenced by anarchist ideology, have been associated with multiple plots and attacks, which included a significant uptick in violence against law enforcement and government symbols in 2020. This ideology is also exploited by hostile
nation-states, which seek to promote it through disinformation campaigns and sow additional chaos and discord across American society.
• Anti-government and/or anti-authority violent extremists are likely to be emboldened by a perceived success exploiting otherwise peaceful protest movements and concealing violent tactics.
That's because the election was one of the most peculiar, unique, and odd elections we've ever seen (mass mail in ballots and such), and the fact that the courts struck these cases to try to find fraud down before they could get some room to breath is somewhat suspicious.
I don't know if the election was stolen or not; I do know if any election was stolen it would probably be that one.
Once again, the political belief of one guy really doesn't prove this important point.
Agreed, statistics are key. But crime and 'domestic terrorist threats' are a different thing. Crime is crime - terrorism is violence directed for political gain. Things like someone shooting up a church affect most of us more than mundane crime. Maybe that's wrong, but...
9/11 killed ~3000 people The Oklahoma City Bombing (another anti government activity) killed 168 people. By contrast over 30,000 Americans a year die in auto accidents. There are approximately 16,000 homicides per year (higher last year, though I can't find the final number. I'm guessing ~20,000 based on what I can find).
The courts struck these cases - that isn't really how cases work. You have to have a solid accusation and evidence before going to a judge. Believe it or not, I'm paranoid enough about the possibility of being lied to that I've dug into a bunch of the fraud claims and they were all pretty easy to debunk.
There was security in place. That isn't proof that fraud didn't occur, but that isn't how accusations work. The basis of the claims is apparently "I can't believe I lost".
Black supporters - I mean, it is possible to be a black white supremacists, but I would imagine it is exceedingly rare. But, many conservatives claim BLM is a black supremacism organization and they obviously have white membership. No, believing the election was stolen doesn't make you a white supremacist, but the groups most pushing the narrative are often identified as such. If you look at these groups and conclude that they don't meet your definition of white supremacy, cool. But apparently it meets the FBI and DHS definitions of such groups.
The root of most bias isn't hate, its fear and very often isn't logical. Nobody thinks they are a racist, and being a racist generally isn't an on off switch. People don't use terms like 'race realist' purely to obfuscate, they believe that they are right and their views are justified.
I prefer to think of racist as something you believe or do rather than something you are. Our minds form stereotypes and biases as a natural defense to allow for quick reactions. That's just the way they work. The issue is when we aren't aware of this and begin to treat these emergency instincts as truth rather than a knee jerk reaction. Everyone has biases, and if you don't realize it and question them then its like denying you have termites - it isn't the kind of problem that gets better or stabilizes.
So if you think someone isn't a white supremacist or part of such a group because they aren't calling for the extermination of a race or lynching people, I think you have too simple a view of it.
Director Christopher Wray 1 year ago
Director Wray explained in a different video that homegrown terrorism (foreign inspired, such as jihadist) is the greatest threat. But of domestic terrorism, the majority of domestic terrorist threats are white supremacy.
Mar 2 2021 Testimony
This is more commentary than I usually like... I did see another video where Wray said they now consider Domestic terrorism and white supremacy to be on par with homegrown terrorism...but I didn't find it and got tired of looking.
White people are 60% of the US population and that is expected to continue to drop. I think 2050 is when we are expected to drop under 50%. We would still be a plurality/the largest minority, but still no longer the majority.
But if you follow the "West is best" approach they use, suddenly your group includes the largest minority as well. Combine that with the fact that many Hispanics are actually very conservative and Catholic, the only reason they are voting democrat is because of the number of people on the conservative side who come off as hostile.
So, interviews with the founder where he says he's calling for general violence, those aren't a thing?
I fully expect that many members thought the branding was true. That they were able anti racist drinking club who liked to brawl. But the dog whistles and West is best rhetoric is kind of exposed for what it always was.
The reason I'm more comfortable judging the proud boys than others is they are an actual group with membership and heirarchy. The Boogaloo folks? They are decentralized like antifa. If you say you are a member, you are.