Try to change my mind

so much for no political bashing in this stream

ask a political question - get a political answer.

Answering and bashing are two different things. I do need to discuss this with my fellow moderators.

Bashing and highlighting hypocrisy are also two different things. I didn't call anyone stupid, I gave an example of stupidity.

I know, but the point is the hypocrite standing you name is neither conservative nor liberal, so basically the comment is not related to the the statement of the meme, and that already could in the most strict sense already allow deletion. My fellow moderators and I have however agreed to keep the comment, for now. But it is considered a borderline case, as your comment highlights the hypocrisy of a group of people who are definitely not in any serious political movement, and that means that deletion of either this comment and/or its replies, can still be in order if things go out of hand. That by the way goes for everybody involved in this matter regardless of from which perspective the comment is placed.

Oh, and hypocrisy and stupidity are also two different things, and the meme was about stupidity. When it comes to hypocrisy all political moments suffer there, no exceptions, and that is a sad fact.

Bottom line is, the comment stays for now, but don't push it, as this is a borderline case, so I will be keeping my eye on this.

You're kidding....right?

Ask anyone the question: "What's the political affiliation of a person who says there's no such thing as gender" and the overwhelming response will be "Liberal" or "Democrat". This is nonsense coming out of universities these days.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/06/lefts-war-women-jonah-goldberg/

My point about hypocrisy being equivalent to stupidity is that the liberals routinely engage in hypocrisy, which shows lack of self awareness or a belief that the audience is too dumb to catch them.

I knew someone like this growing up, he thought we were too dumb to catch him in his lies - until we gave him a nickname "stinky bullshit". He objected to the nickname, but we pointed out that he earned the nickname with his lies and eventually he was so embarrassed of the nickname that he stopped lying to us. He couldn't recognize the logical implications, so we imposed a societal consequence - shame. It took years.

Being both for and against something, telling obvious and easily disprovable lies, denying that something exists and then using that very thing in an argument, demanding change and then lamenting the very change that was demanded, engaging in cancel culture and then begging people to stop when it comes after them, rioting and looting on live TV and then calling it peaceful.... A group who cannot recognize that they're blatantly and repeatedly contradicting themselves must be.....stupid.

I wasn't kidding that I could "do this all day long" - because I have been observing this hypocrisy for a long time, and I'm not the only one. One of your fellow moderators joined in on the fun below.

If the OP didn't want someone to post examples of one side or the other being stupid - he shouldn't have chosen the "Change my mind" meme template.

Delete it if think you must, but you'll be proving me right.

*screenshotting the whole thread now

First of all, liberalism is most of all an economical philosophy, not a gender related philosophy, and unlike what most Americans think it's a rightist philosophy too. That most people will say something different doesn't make it true. It merely means that most people don't know what they're talking about. And the conservatives are not any better when it comes to hypocrisy, it only comes out in different ways and/or different themes. Gender neutrality is an issue we mostly find back in progressive thinking, but people who are really standing up for gender neutrality won't deny the existence of genders, however in every topic there are people who take it too far, so far that they lose the sense a bit between sense and nonsense, and unfortunately opposers will only show the faces of these people. Should I pick out a conservative theme, and expose the hypocrisy behind it? You may just get as angry and offended, and start moaning I am just showing somebody who took it too far... Don't deny it, you would and if you won't do it, other conservatives will, so what was that about hypocrisy? It exists in all political movements.

If you really want to expose the stupidity behind the two movements you should not come up with people who lost it, but come up with themes that actually are being debated on high level and be able to properly come up with argumentation why it wouldn't work. When you come to that level you will notice that there's stupidity behind it, just points you disagree with. For example, on YouTube there's a video of somebody who calculated how much the wall on the Mexican border would cost and came up with a plausible picture of some scientic issues as well. Now you can disagree with it, as he may perhaps missed some valid points, but you cannot deem him stupid, as he did think it through. When it comes to gender neutrality I also have a note to pick, as gender-neutral people may not like to be addressed as "sir" and "ma'am" and "he" or "she", some of them even want a ban on those words, and then I wonder, what about my identity, as I really am a "he" and not a "they". Can't they understand that acknowledging their identity should hurt mine? I they wanna be "they" it's fine with me, as long as I may remain "he". Then you come up with valid questions. Showing people who pushed it too far is easy, but that doesn't help the debate. Those people are not liberal. They are merely idealists lost in their ideals. They are there in all political movements.

As I said, I can do this all day long because I've been observing it for a long time.

I see, you're focusing on the gender comment and not the overall theme of hypocrisy. Nevermind that I posted a link to an article that names names of liberals who are waging the war against gender.....

If you want to expose a hypocritical conservative stance, then I think you should. If it's true, I won't get mad about it, because I hold truth in the highest regard. Likewise, I hold lies and liars in nearly the lowest regard.....just above pedos.

How about some hypocrisy from the VP debate? Is Kamala Harris a mainstream enough liberal for you? I would assume that because she's on the Democrat ticket, she must be representative of the liberal consensus. I've got about a dozen hypocritical statements she made during the debate queued up and ready to go. I didn't want to spam the thread, because you don't quench thirst with a fire hose.

Supplement, you don't wanna call that woman who claimed she would teach her grandchildren to hate you showing off with the confederate flag to mock black people a "liberal" do you?
She is just as crazy/stupid/repulsive/whatchamacallit as the idealism you try to expose...

You think you can control people having feelings about other people? I don't care what some woman teaches her grandchildren. The likelihood of her or her grandchildren having a meaningful impact on the world is so infinitesimally remote to be entirely disregarded. Someone openly displaying that sort of thing wouldn't be able to advance in society or business, and will eventually become extinct. Until they join us in the modern world, those sorts of viewpoints will exclude them from participating in any meaningful way.

Let her be racist, who cares? You can be as offended as you want, because nothing happens when you're offended. You don't die, it's not even a scratch.

I assume you're more offended by the flag though, since the obvious assertion is that conservatives are racist. You fail to recognize that most conservatives object to the removal of confederate monuments and symbols because they are part of the history of the country - erasing them prevents future generations from learning history. The hysteria whipped up by the left has caused the mob to attack every statue they see. The cancel culture mob pulled down a bronze deer statue. What the hell did the deer do?

That's the major difference in the philosophies of the two ideologies when it comes to personal opinions. Conservatives will opt to distance themselves from opinions they don't care for, while liberals tend to demand that opinions they don't like be abolished and banned. If I don't like something, I don't look at it. If a liberal doesn't like something - it's deemed evil and must be removed so as not to damage their delicate feelz.

Idealism? Hypocrisy isn't an ideal to work for.

You evidenced my point... I knew you'd be angry or try to wave it away, and try to debunk the entire point of this woman being a conservatist (which is something I never even claimed her to be, I only said she was clearly not liberal), and with that you proved my entire point I was trying to make.

Oh, and I don't take offense from the confederate flag.... It wasn't until people made a point about it that I actually knew how controversial it was. I am also not a descendant of the slaves, so I don't have any feelings about the flag being a symbol of slavery or anything. For me it's just a painted piece of fabric, like all flags...

The point is, you took offense from my statement, and that confirms the point I was trying to make. There are idiots or otherwise people who take it too far in any kind of political stream. You are right about one thing though, racism is not conservatism, but many people, even racists lost that difference, and gender neutrality is a progressive point (which is not liberalism, as liberalism is rather the policy to limit authority and freedom for companies or those who wanna do business. Progressive thinking is about embracing new things, and the issue of gender neutrality falls under that), but when you take that point too far, it also loses the progressive way of thinking...

It's not hypocrisy... it merely losing sense of the ideology and then people start to contradict themselves. Hypocrisy is something else. You know what hypocrisy is? If you tell the public you would fight drugs traffic and even arrest some folks while in secret you support the entire going. Hypocrisy also happens in all kinds of people in all religions and political convictions, and is therefore not tied to liberalism nor conservatism nor the political streams of which you deny their existence. And basically we also see it in every human being.

And I proved myself right... You took offense from the example I gave. The entire tone of your post makes that clear. And I knew you would, I even said you would. Also shows the hypocrisy in you. Blowing up the points you think to be "liberal" is fine, but blowing up the points people believe the be "conservative" is not fine... That is hypocrisy in its purest form, and also what you've shown to me, right here, right now.

Thank you... for confirming my point. You see, how easy it is to accuse others of hypocrisy?
And you try to prove stupidity, but your last sentence shows you've not even understood my post at all.

Who's angry? The group you're trying to use to represent all conservatives is so small that they are statistically irrelevant. The group I'm referencing is so large, they've been seen on the news committing arson, robbery, assault, and theft in 48 cities.

I am a descendant of slaves, and I've never been inclined to erase history.

I'm not offended by much, certainly nothing you've said has made me do anything but chuckle. Debate was a favorite subject of mine growing up, and I tend to pursue victory until I win or there is a stalemate.

"The group you're trying to represent the conservatives"
I see how much you've understood my point! As a matter of fact you are now really being a hypocrite. I told you the person on the meme template is not representing liberalism, yet you insist you are. And so I took in the person the so-called "liberals" use to represent "conservatism" in to show you that in both sides there are people who give the wrong image of both movements and you go all on the line proving this woman is not a conservatist and trying to make me take offense from the confederate flag (nobody in Europe takes offense from that flag, and I am a European)... I already know that, bruddah! I already know she shows the false image of conservatism, and I used her to demonstrate how easily people get the wrong image of a political movement, and since you took offense from that you know how people see that woman and how they sort her when it comes to liberalism or conservatism, and I also tried to show how wrong the sorting takes place. I am not angry... I am smiling by your desperation. And you can say you ain't offended, but your replies tell me differently. And I am not merely confronting you with the error of deeming the person in the meme a liberal, by showing the same kind of misguided image people have about conservatism.

And you can't win... The game is already over, although you will refuse to admit it. And you now said you will go on until you win... Sounds like a soccer player who keeps kicking the ball after the referee already called the match off. The ball may get into the goal, but it won't change the match result anymore. But what is even more sad is that you keep missing the point. I am neither liberal nor conservatist. I am on neither side. I hate both ideologies with passion, but this allows me to approach them both neutrally.

You may keep trying to "debate on" until you win, but by doing so, you'll only confirm my point more and more. And that is that you are desperate to prove your point, while you don't even know what you are making a point about. Yes, you are angry... You keep refusing to understand my point and you keep on taking it out of context. Winning a debate is impossible when you refuse to keep things into their context and refuse to understand the point the debate is about.

Don't you get it?

I agree with you on the idea of the meme, but any political discussion needs to be civilized and thoughtful on this stream

They’re just emotionally unstable, not atupid

Thread disproves OP all by itself.

No seriously, they’re hypersensitive and emotionally driven. To the point where it’s not even funny

In order to put more clarity on Spooky says. Idealists quite often begin their fight for their ideals from a justified ground, however they lose themselves along the way, especially when finding out (the hard way) that people are hardly willing to listen, and over the course, they become more and more driven to the point they lose the sense of sense and nonsense. Now the person in that meme lost it over gender neutrality (at least I get that feeling in how the template is used in memes, as I could never find the original images, and yes I did try to look them up), but when we look at people who come up with the problems migration brings, the same things happen, and also with arguments that make less and less sense and even contradict themselves eventually, so in a certain sense we can say the pot's calling the kettle black. This happens in loads of political issues, from migration, sex related issues, climate change, to well, basically any political issue. The sad thing is that these people who lost themselves get all the media attention driving the attention away from the people who still do address the issue with valid argumentation ("valid" does not mean you have to agree with it). And it's also a pity that those who oppose the ideas also use the people who lost it in their argumentation, turning things into propaganda.

Of course, sometimes it looks like people contradict themselves, but if you get deeper understanding of what they said, it suddenly doesn't seem to contradicting. And besides pulling things out of their context is also an easy way to go.

Spooky is right, you may not call them stupid, nor even hypocrite. They merely lost themselves into their idealism, and are driven by emotion. Now emotion is important, but when emotion takes it over from rational thinking, then things can get rather... shall we say... seem "stupid". And I know the template is used a lot (I confess myself guilty), but Spooky is right (I must admit that too), it is actually not funny.

Thank you

I say it's stupidity. They can contradict themselves in the same breath, and not recognize it.

Nah. They just can’t articulate themselves without hurting their reputation