WEEKEND UPDATE WITH NORM

3hap4s.gif (click to show) Darth says "No let it be"

I bet her brother forced many an abortion on her.

If It Did Happen We'll Find Out Eventually with the investigation.

"...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

If no state nor the federal government could take a life, then capital punishment would be unconstitutional.

(Disclaimer: I'm on your side regarding abortion. Sorry, I should have made that clear from the beginning.)

Don't Worry About It Montresor We're Cool Even If You Didn't Agree.
And On Capital Punishment It Shouldn't Be Legal For Government To Execute Prisoners Is My Opinion.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

14th amendment refers plainly to all persons born or naturalized. so how is abortion illegal?

Capital punishment, also known as the death penalty, is a government-sanctioned practice whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime.

Don't pregnant women have any constitutional rights?

All women, pregnant or not have the same rights as everyone else. You have a right to "pursue" happiness, but the Consitution does not guarantee happiness. You are still responsible for your bad choices. Life has consequences.

However, the Consitution does guarantee a right to life and not have someone murder you.

Nowhere in the Consitution is there anything about abortion and it is not a guaranteed right. Just like healthcare and free college are not rights, no matter what the Left thinks.

Well SCOTUS ruled abortions are legal so suck it up

Yes, and they can reverse that ruling just as easily.

Newsflash: It's not just women who want abortions. And it's not always because of bad choices. There are medical reasons, rape, birth control failure... Your argument is inherently sexist toward women.

Just 4 percent of women who obtained abortions reported a physical-health problem, 3 percent cited possible fetal-health problems, and fewer than .5 percent were pregnant as the result of having been raped. Over 90% of abortions are for convenience.

Only a woman can have an abortion, so how is anything I have said sexist?

It could be sexist, if there wasn't access to several forms of contraception, many in designer colors and flavors.

Condoms come in thin so he can feel like he's not wearing one.

Absolutely. I choose not to have vasectomy (my body...), but I do use condoms. While we're on the subject, there's also all kinds fun two naked people can have without the risk of pregnancy. Each person will have their own preferences with regard to them, however.

And not all rapes are reported...

Rapists are not dealt with harshly enough for the punishment to become a deterrent to the crime, IMO. Most of my ideas regarding appropriate punishment would require exceptions to the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment (after all, rape is a cruel and unusual crime).

I do not think that anyone should have to live with a daily reminder of their life's worst moment, nor should any child have to grow up with a parent who doesn't love them unconditionally and without hesitation - especially if that child only has the one parent. I believe that a woman who has become pregnant due to rape should have abortion as an option - her option, no one else's.

I disagree with abortion to escape one's poor decisions, as casual as a cup of coffee.

and not all rapes result in pregnancy. Using a red herring doesn't help your argument.

It's not a red herring. Over 400k rapes happen per year, like I said. They're not all reported so we have no idea how many end up in pregnancy. To say it's a red herring is to completely disregard those victims. Any law outlawing abortions would force them to carry the child of their rapist - in some cases it could be a 12 year old girl pregnant by her dad or an uncle.

OK, so we make abortion legal for proven instances of rape or incest and for valid medical reasons, but outlaw it for the 90% of the time it is used for "Convenience", like another form of birth control.

Nope. Because a woman shouldn't have to sit in court and tell everyone they were raped and that's why they need an abortion. It's an invasion of privacy.

So you're saying the rapist should not be prosecuted? You see without going to court, the alleged rapist can not be found guilty.

I'm sorry, but I can not agree with that. Every rapist should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You keep making out like rape and incest is the only reason a woman gets an abortion.

I am not judging a woman's reason for abortion, I am saying there is no moral reason for abortion.

Who said anything about the rapist? You're talking about a woman only being allowed to get an abortion if she was raped. Whether the rapist is prosecuted or not, if he's even identified, the woman is going to have to tell people she got raped in order to get an abortion, in your dream. What if she's too devastated or traumatized to talk about it? That's like a built in deterrent to keep women from getting an abortion. Bad idea.

I bet you commit dozens a year!

Your "statistics" do nothing to change how sexist your argument is. Does a small number mean they don't count? A woman can't get pregnant without a man. So where is his responsibility in all this? You assume SHE made all the bad choices all on her own.

I still don't understand how anything I have said is sexist. If you could give me a specific example of my sexism so I may learn from my misdeeds.

Rape is a VERY small number, but OK, I will compromise. We should only allow abortions that are the result of rape. The other 99.5% we outlaw.

Your last argument is a non-sequitur. If the sex was consensual, then yes, it is her choice and her responsibility. Unless of course, you are saying that the father of the child should have an equal say in whether she can have an abortion or not.

Is that a small number to you? We don't know how many result in pregnancy because many don't report it.

And you have yet to discuss the responsibility that a man has in the situation. If he doesn't have any like you're saying because it's consensual, then she should get to choose for herself how she wants to deal with it. You can't have it both ways... anymore...

We are not talking about the total number of rapes, we are talking about the number of abortions as the result of rape. Yes, 1/2 0f 1% is a small number compared to the other 99.5% and the millions and millions of abortions for convenience.

Ok, I agree men have a responsibility, so going forward, no women can have an abortion without the father agreeing. Is that what you're arguing for?

Again, it is a non-sequitur. Abortion is not a constitutional right.

People use rape and medical necessity as exceptions to try to undermine the argument. It makes as much sense as saying you have a phone for emergencies - 5g iPhone 912 X Plus Super Duper Ultracool, with unlimited text and data, 9 million social media apps built in, and a bat signal.

You know. For emergencies.

What doesn't make sense is men thinking they can tell a woman what she can do with her body. That's like women trying to pass a law to ban men from ejaculating. If we're going to call a fetus at 3mos gestation a full-fledged person with rights that supersede those of its mother, then all the sperm dead beat dads kill should have rights, too.

Not telling anybody what they can do with their body. I am arguing for the protection of another body, with unique DNA and a body of their own.

That can not live on its own outside her body. That needs to feed off her body for 10 months in order to live. That she must go through excruciating pain for sometimes days then push this huge thing through a tiny orifice which tears her open - and could kill her btw. While the men sit back and pass out cigars...

You keep making fallacious arguments. The process of pregnancy has nothing to do with the morality of killing the unborn child. As far as a man having a cigar, again, what does that have to do with abortion?

We are arguing whether abortion is a right or is it something that should be controlled to protect the life of an unborn child.

The main question is whether "my body my choice" is acceptable when the alternative is the life of another person or is abortion an acceptable form of birth control.

BS it has everything to do with it. It's all happening inside a woman's body not some public place. What rights does a woman have over what happens in HER body?

It's not *her* body that is at issue.

If they told her that she is not allowed to decide whether or not she has sex, and told her that she is not allowed to use contraception and that the male will not either, and that she has to live with the consequences, then I could perhaps agree with you. It is her body, so she gets to choose whether or not she has sex, with whom, and what form of contraception to use, if any. She doesn't get to choose to avoid the consequences of those decisions.

Women are not the only ones who have rights.

Women don't seem to have any rights in your perfect world. She can have sex, but she has to worry about contraception because it's her body. But she doesn't get to have an abortion if the condom breaks. And the guy gets to do what? Not call her back when she's trying to tell him she's pregnant?

I'm sorry you got that from what I said. Men also have to "worry about contraception." There are two people involved, both need to address contraception. Condoms do not magically break. Learn, and teach him how to use them. As for the guy when she's pregnant, 18 years of child support. There are consequences for him, too, and that's part of why he needs to "worry about contraception."

And there are ways of engaging in sex that do not risk pregnancy.

The Constitution also doesn't say a damn thing about giving Government the right to make a single gun law.

But welcome to America where there are countless gun laws.

Abortions can be very traumatic and devastating for women. Not all women are like "la di da, I think tonight I'll dye my hair, get an abortion and drink some Chardonnay..." But if the condom breaks or the pill fails (which happens all the time) and they're not in a good place or the guy bugs out, why should she be forced to go through with it if she doesn't want to?

If the condom breaks, it's because you're using it wrong.