The world we live in....

“The vast majority of parents would push back much harder than the mother in this meme if their kid said they were trans. As they should.”

What the vast majority of parents would do is a completely irrelevant from the few who won't push back - and as a result – would be subjugating their children to gender confusion and child abuse – making your comment inconsequential to the meme.

It's typically not a good idea to wait for something to become a pandemic in society before getting on the bull horn to do something about it. If only one parent is encouraging their children with this kind of neglect and abuse – that's one parent too many.

“The girl depicted in this meme is also well before puberty and I’m not aware of any transitions that are allowed to take place that early.”

There is a case in Texas right this minute being fought where a radical activist mother wants to transition her 7 yr. Old son to a girl. The court ruled in her favor thus far. ( Link below ) There are many more like this one.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/jury-rules-against-texas-dad-trying-to-save-7-year-old-son-from-gender-transition-potential-castration

“Yes, transition therapy is life-altering.”

It's life destroying – not altering.

“But if the child is truly trans”

There's no such thing as “truly trans” There are people who embrace reality and sanity – and those who reject it. Reality is not declared by declaration.

“then transitioning during the early stages of puberty is the best time to do it to achieve optimal outcomes.”

There's no “best time” for this type of child abuse and encouraging of gender confusion – nor such a thing as “optimal” in destroying a child's life.

“This is a tough issue and I don’t claim to have all the answers.”

It's not tough at all when you hold a world view and epistemology to provide you with objective standards for human behavior to demonstrate the utter evil, insanity, and irrationality that this behavior is.

“Just stuff worth pointing out and talking about rather than fear-mongering.”

With all due respect. You haven't offered anything worth pointing out - You've just made empty and irrelevant claims. Characterizing people rightly pointing out the evil, perverted, and destructive nature of this behavior -and the misfit parents encouraging it as “ fear mongering “ is an appeal to motive logical fallacy.

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“I have acquaintances who are trans, and they report much greater life satisfaction after their transitions”

Masochists derive greater pleasure and satisfaction from inflicting themselves with pain as well, but that says nothing about the sanity or legitimacy of that behavior. That your acquaintances “ report much greater satisfaction “ is a non-arguement.

“Which makes sense, as they’ve now finally become the people they’ve always been.”

On the contrary. They're denying who they are. And I'll bet you dollars to donuts this is rooted in – among other things - some kind of repression from pain in their childhood

“For them, the experience wasn’t life-destroying. It was life-affirming”

Which is nothing but an empty claim that does not stand to rational or sane scrutiny.

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Admittedly, you are one of the better writers I’ve encountered on ImgFlip thus far, but your argument is pretty substantiveless when you get down to it.

You’ve brought no facts or studies to the table to back up your strong notion that trans people don’t exist. You proclaim loudly and clearly that they don’t, but the relative elegance of your prose doesn’t give those arguments any greater weight. You dismiss my anecdotes about my acquaintances as a “non-argument,” but they are more substance than you have presented.

And your clever invocations of “motive fallacy” aside, it’s pretty clear from reading your response in its totality that you are motivated, at least, by animus toward “progressives” and have an agenda for promotion of “biblical” values, whatever that means to you. It defies logic that you would go this far out of your way to tell people who they are or should be without holding some sort of motive.

And despite your heartfelt lobbying on behalf of the 7-year-old, whose freedom you are very interested in: You’re the only one in this conversation telling people who they are, and who they can or can’t be. That attitude really comes to the forefront when you say things like, “they’re denying who they are,” make loaded judgments about trans people’s “sanity,” and invoke “masochism.” Well, who’s in a better relative position to judge who these people are? You or they?

You claim to “hate no one”; fair enough, I guess I’ll have to accept that, but your arguments grant a veneer of rationality to those who do. And will be instantly perceived as an attack by anyone who is trans or an ally of them. I know you are smart enough to see that. So, whether you double down on all that or back up and reconsider is up to you.

Hi Kylie,

I read some of your stuff but full disclaimer, I do not entirely agree with you. What does get my attention though is you seem genuinely well intentioned. Your words say you care. So I hope my response reflects that I think you are a good guy, despite me disagreeing with you.

I'll start with affirmation. Affirmation of a false premise leads people to make poor decisions, no matter the example. Imagine having a friend who is terrible with money convincing herself to blow her life savings on the lotto, because she feels like she is good with money and that her odds are good. Statistically, even if she won, she would probably be bankrupt before the years end. The good thing to do as a friend is not affirm the belief that she is good with money but affirm the truth: "you are bad with money and you are about to make a life altering decision by throwing away your life savings." Affirmation, like many great relational actions, should not be merely judged as good, but should be judged based on direction, just like leadership. In other words, just because you are affirming someone does not mean you are doing a good thing. What you affirm a person towards is what matters. Affirm them to destructive behavior and that means you are a bad affirmer, but affirm them towards healthy behavior and you are a good affirmer.

As far as the "it doesn't effect you," that doesn't mean we completely ignore the consequences, especially in life altering circumstances. As a libertarian, I think an adult can do whatever the hell they legally want. If an adult male friend of mine says "I am a woman." I would tell them that it is up to them and it really is their choice to do such a thing. As a friend I would inform them about the consequences and let them decide. But I draw the line at children. Life altering decisions that they don't fully comprehend is abusive at best.

I think part of the picture that we miss a lot today is that there is so few long term studies. Every study that reflects that people are happy with their transition only look at 3-10 years after reassignment. What few studies go past that is incredibly concerning. The suicide rate returns in strength.

Can I ask you a favor? Could you read the following and tell me what you think?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/interview-part-i-former-transgender-walt-heyer-talks-about-his-detransition-the-dangers-of-affirmation-and-childhood-sexual-trauma

It is a lifelong transgender psychologist telling his story.

I appreciate your lengthy response, and providing a link to an anecdote to serve as a discussion point. I will say your approach to this issue appears to be rooted in much more compassion than other posts on this thread.

That said, I cannot fully agree with everything you say.

You start with "affirmation" and talk about the dangers of affirming wrongful behavior. I agree, in certain instances. You provide an example of behavior, i.e. blowing life savings on the lotto, that is much clearly more wrong and detrimental than simply being confused about one's sexual identity.

I would therefore ask you: what is the alternative to "affirmation" in the context of transgenderism? The only real alternative I see to affirming someone's trans-ness is to deny it. That's not a healthy approach, either, and is another thing that would more readily push trans teens toward feelings of rejection, isolation, and suicidal ideation.

You talk about studies on suicide rates, but don't cite them. I am not sure we can automatically assume that studies on suicide rates can provide a clear path for us on this issue. Look, it's not easy living with the feeling of being trapped inside the wrong body, which is how I've heard the experience of being trans described. It does not surprise me that someone living with that wrenching internal feeling would probably experience severe depression and even suicidal ideation from time to time. If trans people do indeed commit suicide at greater rates than other groups, it only goes to show how badly these people desperately need our compassion, and not our judgment.

I read the link to Walt Heyer's story. It sounds like Heyer went through a rough time, and I have compassion for them. I guess what I would say in response is that one can readily find plenty of other positive, affirmative anecdotes of trans people on the internet that cut the complete opposite way. Here's a collection published by the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/opinion/transgender-today/stories/chris

As well as my anecdotes from my personal life talking with trans acquaintances. For them, their experience post-transition was life-affirming. The small number of people who have transitioned and report later regretting it complicate the picture of transgenderism a bit, but we cannot allow the tail to wag the dog.

Bottom-line, I respect your arguments but I hope they are not a soft-pedaled and nuanced form of transphobia.

Hahahaha, hey man, I appreciate the kind words! And excited to find someone who wants to have a conversation!

As for affirmation, I absolutely agree with you as far as my example goes. My point was not to morally draw a parallel between the two, but rather inspire caution to what we affirm towards (So I do agree with you for the record on your point).

And with that being said, I do not think denial is the key, no matter what side of the aisle you are. My wife had an anecdote for me when she was counseling teens: "feelings are real, but it doesn't mean they are true." The fact that the suicide rate amongst trans people is 40% (Only time in history we see this rate is with Jews at concentration camps), should alert anyone to go, "wait... we need to start with the person's feelings." What I think healthy affirmation looks like at this point would be to somehow interject help and compassion somewhere in the process.

So here is my understanding. From what I have read, there are 3 possible leading causes to a person wanting to get a gender reassignment surgery. First, they are trapped in the wrong body and identify as the opposite sex. Second, they have had trauma (like Walt) that presents itself as such. Last, folks doing it for social acceptance. A healthy approach in my mind would be to encourage them towards people like Walt, who not only have been there but are trained to work with this. Help them figure out where they land and encourage them how to avoid some pitfalls. Whether the pitfalls to avoid are not getting the reassignment or what not to do when getting the reassignment. I think we should marry caution with care.

As far as not citing, I do apologize, most people don't always read my links so I try to seldom use them, so kudos to you for asking for them!

"The small number of people who have transitioned and report later regretting it complicate the picture of transgenderism a bit, but we cannot allow the tail to wag the dog."

Now, with this I disagree and I will happily give you a cite:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Some info: the link is to a study done in Sweden (they have been pro-transgenderism for a long time) and doesn't just look at 1-5 years out but 10-15 years out. The conclusion was that the suicide rate actually comes back with a vengeance. This is why I can't wholly agree with a lot of your talking points and why I feel that there is so much we still need to know.

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“Your transphobic beliefs are clearly well-ingrained to motivate you to post such a long screed in response”

This will be the second appeal to motive fallacy you've committed. Appealing to my motive neither diminishes my position nor bolsters yours.

“I can’t say I’ve encountered anyone who quite was this thoroughly committed to the anti-trans cause”

Could it be that the problem is that you need to broaden your social and information circles to go beyond “Progressive” echo-chambers to confirm your own bias? Something to consider.

“What makes you so committed to fighting against a cause that, I am guessing, does not truly impact your own life (or the lives of anyone near and dear to you) in any way?”

The question can't be answered on the basis that it's loaded with a false assumption. As a member of a collective society – I have a duty and responsibility to speak out when governments are accommodating child abuse which destroys individuals and families that form the foundation of a society. That you do not possess the intellectual nor moral capacity to deduce this – makes it no less true.

“I’m genuinely curious. Is it just the run-of-the-mill desire to “own the libz” held by many on this website, or have you really discovered within yourself a molten core of hatred for trans people, and correspondingly, a genuine and boundless well-spring of compassion only for the tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of humanity who are in situations of the type you’ve described involving that 7-year-old?”

I'm not here because I get my jollies off by winning a debate, but because I genuinely care about the country and the precedent this perverted behavior is setting for our children and future generations. By the way. This is your third appeal to motive fallacy. I hate no one.

“As for that court case you’ve cited: I’ve seen this story doing the rounds on right-wing social media and it does sound awful, if the facts are how you’ve presented them.”

It's not only “right-wing” social media running it, but primarily it's them, because progressives know this is not good PR for their pushing of this this destructive and perverted movement.

“However, even if true it doesn’t change reality for people who really are trans. You deny that such people exist, but your denial is immaterial. “

Transgenderism is a denial of reality – not the embracing of it. Trangenderism is what occurs in a society which rejects objective standards and a biblical model.

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The point of this meme is very simple. We don't let children make life changing decisions because children so not know if they are trans any more than they know they really will want that face tattoo for the rest of their lives. Hormone therapy for anyone under 18 is child abuse. Puberty blockers are child abuse. Once you're an adult? Do anything you damn well want.

Yeah, because no child in the history of children have come to their parents ON THEIR OWN without influence of some kind from adults and told their parents they feel like they should change their gender because they feel like the opposite s3x. And anyone telling you this is a child abuser or a pedophile sympathizer.