Hogwarts political school

Oh for the love of God, they absolutely were not.

So you never read a history book? Got it

Yes, I know, books are the antimatter to liberals. Where knowledge gleaned from books exist, liberals do not.

more importantly, not a single one read by a liberal on this thread...oh wait...there might be some pop-up picture books in there somewhere. I am sure you crushed those.

You mean the ones that rigorously document the hyper-militaristic, hyper-nationalist, socially conservative, and thoroughly anti-egalitarian government of the National Socialists?

What, OMG...so hyper-militarism denotes right wing? Are you really this dumb or do you take dumb enhancement pills? Hyper-militarism socialist include the following countries: Cuba, China (yes China is gravitated towards a more capitalist system, but they've militarised for decades). Note, socially conservative is also debunked by Cuba, as well as anti-egalitarian (surely, your educated self knows they treated homosexuals.

So yes, you never read a history book. You read some nonsense but never critically examined what they are saying.

Yes: a massive fixation on Roman-era military symbolism - from which fascism gets its name - is something militaristic regimes do when they are glorifying the empires of the past, not looking for a new era of military unification of the globe in the future.

And yes, the anti-egalitarianism of the Nazis crossed all kinds of lines that even the homophobic and anti-semitic regimes of the Stalinists could not match. Women were literally given the instructions of have kids, go to church, and cook dinner.

Mercedes, BMW, and Volkswagen backed the Nazis with gusto and it wasn't because they were looking forward to an era of stifled economic regulation.

Hitler himself never missed a chance to rant and rave on full public record how much he hated the left as early as 1922. Anyone even suspected of being left-wing would find themselves in the same fate as all their other enemies.

So make whatever jokes you want - you're trying to go against entire libraries of documented evidence that squarely, and carefully, and repeatedly, documents the right-wing position of the Nazi party.

Forgive typos. Posted by mobile

Sorry little girl, again you are incorrect. The doctrine of fascism was born by Italian philosher Giovanni Gentile. He was a socialist. His ideology differed from that of Marxism where Marixst mobilize society by class, but Fascist mobilize by national identity and class. In short, fascist are socialist with a national identity.

Yes, Hitler railed against socialist, who are you are labeling "the left", but that make Hitler on the right.

The political spectrum from right to left goes from from the smallest form of government which is non-government aka Anarchism to total state control on the left aka Statism or Socialism.

The right, speaking of right in modern America, are conservative. Conservative want a smaller government with more control dispersed among the people. The modern left, Democrats, seek to expand government control i.e. Bugger Government. So where does Gentile's philosophy fit? Well Gentile did not like dectrenalized small government. He dismissed it as selfish. He advocated that people willingly submit to the control of the State. This very premise is incongruous with being right wing conservative and aligns directly with socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

And that national identity made all the difference.

You are talking about authoritarianism versus libertarianism. Levels of state control, as you say. Left wing and right wing refers to levels of social liberalism. And if the Nazis were happy with the unleashing of liberal values, they would have left the Weimer Republic to do what they were already doing.

"And that national identity made all the difference" Holy crap Batman....that was the most reductive analysis in have ever seen. Haha

Yeah let's just totally ignore the socioeconomic ramifications of fascism, the abandonment of personal liberty. Haha

LOL...cites Wikipedia...you do realize that Wikipedia is not even accpeted source for college level papers, as anyone can make and edit Wikipedia entries.

Jesus Christ on sale, there was a thing in classical Rome called the fasces and the fixation upon that symbol of authority is where we get the word fascism.

Skippy, you are lacking in your ability to tie the ideology of fascism to modern conservativism (right wing).

First, you listed three characteristics of Nazi Germany that you believed indicates the system of government as right wing. Clearly, this tactic was easily debunked by listing other socialist countries which share those characteristics. I didn't even bother to mention Russia, which is socialist, and has all three of those traits.

From there you moved to a reductionist view of history ( Hitler hated socialist). This doesn't make him right wing. Factions with in Left/Right don't have to approved of each other, and on the Left they rarely do.

From there, I tried, in vein, to discuss the ideological nature of fascism. It's a system of government where there is no personal identity, only the State.

This is antithetical to the nature of right wing conservativism who vehemently defend the rights of the individual. Just think of how conservatives defend the 2nd Amendment, or scream when someone says "universal healthcare". But again those policies, universal healthcare, big government, align with the modern left. You can even see it in modern political slogans of the left which elevates the collective over the individual.

In summary, yes fascist hated socialist. But that doesn't make them "right wing", especially not analogous to conservativism.

LOL... Wikipedia is an open source repository that allows for any person to make edits and revisions. Because of this structure Wikipedia is not accepted as a reliable source. Does that mean that everything on Wikipedia is wrong? No, but that doesn't change the inherently flawed nature of it's database.

This guy is like Chosanwan, only really dull.

See my comments throughout? He's still yapping the same bs.
laonsite got him too earlier.

just stop with the revisionist garbage,you are embarrassing yourself.

LOL...you're a bright boy. What a nuanced and we'll written retort. I think you're running low on dumb juice, might want to fill up. You'll need your A game.

I am just f**king with ya,because you an easy mark.
muppets are delicious.

They were positively left wing.

i know ignorants usually prefer to say stuff like ”have you read...” bla-bla, or just post passive aggressive insults, instead of actual arguments - it's easier - but i just have one thing to say: it doesn't make you one inch smarter - just more self-sufficient, shallow and condescendent, which are all signs of, well, let's just say, not that much intelligence. i think just reading their manifesto, and a few of the many statements of the leading officials of the NDSAP - yes, including Hitler - is enough to understand "what wing" they were. I mean, when Hitler, or Himmler, or Goebbels say it themselves - many times - that they are Socialist, and that they fight against capitalism, which is a crime, and that they stand for the "working people" - which is, for anybody that remotely know history, a blatant lie - it's hard to deny the evidence. If you actually have some clue about what they did, and the system they patronized, even joking that they were Right-Wing is senseless. Regardless of the mainstream manipulation carried out for decades by the same guys that have been trying to impose the Socialist so called "Liberalism" - isn't that a nice choice of names? - I mean calling Socialism Liberalism is in no way a different lie than calling National Socialists "right-wing" - for almost the entire time since WW2, when the teachings of the Frankfurt school started to be implemented by the Leftist academic establishment in the USA - with the ensuing "coincidental" phenomena. And there's nothing more to add. Do youe reading, and talk trash less.

Hitler on April 12, 1922, speaking at Munich: "There are only two possibilities in Germany; do not imagine that the people will forever go with the middle party, the party of compromises; one day it will turn to those who have most consistently foretold the coming ruin and have sought to dissociate themselves from it. And that party is either the Left: and then God help us! for it will lead us to complete destruction - to Bolshevism, or else it is a party of the Right which at the last, when the people is in utter despair, when it has lost all its spirit and has no longer any faith in anything, is determined for its part ruthlessly to seize the reins of power - that is the beginning of resistance of which I spoke a few minutes ago. Here, too, there can be no compromise - there are only two possibilities: either victory of the Aryan, or annihilation of the Aryan and the victory of the Jew."

Again you attempt to reduce a complex political philosophy based on a few words, namely "And that party is either the Left: and then God help us! for it will lead us to complete destruction - " You are over extrapolating here. Hitler views fascism as RIGHT of socialism, and that may be. But being of on the right of socialism is not the same as the modern Republican party or the conservative movement.

You really are an idiot. The parameters of my argument have been, from the onset of the debate, the philosophical nature of fascism.

You literally have posted nothing but troll remarks and insults, and then when someone points out your genuine lack of intellect you want to cry about name calling. You really are a liberal.

I seriously do not care dude.
I am not a liberal,and you were the one who was insulting first.i never throw the first crap grenade,but I am always down to play.

and I don't even have to engage in the convo,mikki has been raking you over the coals and you don't have the self-awareness to even realize it.

to me,you are just entertainment.
soooooo
thanks man!

Guy, you have zero self awareness? You just referred to another poster as a twat waffle and an ignorant turd.

It's as if you entered a duel, fired your shot at your opponent, missed with that shot, then you protest about your opponent being armed.

It's laughable. You are the equivalent of discarded foreskin. You provide no benefit or even a contribution to the discussion.

Mikki has done nothing but move off one debunked statement to the next. He/she hasn't even attempted to square the logic of how ideological nature of fascism is right wing. It started with a pathetic attempt at saying Nazis must be right wing because they display hyper-militarism etc. This was quickly abandoned after the obvious flaws of the argument. Next came, well Hitler hated socialist, again not a determinative factor.

It's sad to watch you flail your arms like a fanboy for your team as they miss the goal repeatedly.

Not everything on the internet is false.

^^^ look children, a straw man argument. Nowhere did I even say anything close to your words. I said people will align with sources that fit their predetermined view. Reading is hard.

Okay, please state your case as to how the ideology of fascism aligns with the ideology of right wing conservatism. Perhaps you have a more nuanced understanding than milkki did.

"You never even entered the realm of explaining how the ideology of fascism aligns with conservative right wings of the time."

Honestly its currently 23:09. Just Google it.

Right, if it's on the internet it must be true

"Okay, please state your case as to how the ideology of fascism aligns with the ideology of right wing conservatism."

Ahhhhh😧😩 But that would mean real work. Can't I just get the final word as a German? No? Blast!😁

Well first off, and I think a big Argument against the NSDAP being left, is that they despised the Socialists. Or Bolsheviks as they were called back then.

Secondly they were technically refered to as far-right. And let me be honest with you none (Or at least 98%) of your conservatives actually get close to being a member of the far right. They don't represent Modern Conservative ideals. Let me make it clear you that I am not saying the current conservative right is like the radical right of Germany 1940s. Just like the current left has little to do with the radical left of the Soviet Union. However they still championed the thinking that one order is above all and that such is the constant and forever. The left is more flexible and feels the need for change is right. Thats why they are Conserv*ative and progressives.

God I am off on a tangent. Anyway basically they rallied behind Conservative radical right wing (For their time) ideals.

People still keep confusing political ideology and authoritarian method. Both Communists and fascists were positively left wing. The difference and why the Nazis hated the Bolsheviks is in the the proposed legitimacy of their justification of power. In fascism, all was de factoproperty of the national state administered by the Nazi party. In Communism all was communal property of the people administered by the Communist Party..

I award you no points, we are all dumber for having read that.

You basically restated Mikki's argument, which is a reductionist view: Hitler hated Socialist. So he must be on right wing.

You never even entered the realm of explaining how the ideology of fascism aligns with conservative right wings of the time.

Thank you for noticing, ref!

Do better. Showing a picture of a moron racist in a Trump t shirt does demonstrate your understanding of the political philosophy of conservatives and how its related to Fascism.

This would be like me posting a picture of 40 year sitting Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, who was a leading member of the KKK. It's intellectual laziness.

fine people on both sides

Yup...just like Robert Byrd....you are not so good at this intellectual thing. Maybe stay off topics that involve philosophy and critical thinking. I am sure there is something more your speed on this site.

What exactly have you addressed on the topic beyond a childish attempt to equate Nazis in 1940 Germany to modern day racist, while ignoring your own parties complicity throughout history in racism? Oh thats right, you did nothing.

Unlike you, he's not a conservative. So perhaps you'd like to answer the question about YOUR complicity in racism, being a conservative and member of a conservative party that committed them.

This is hilarious. Hi VagabondSouffle, have we ever met? What or how did you deduce that I am a racist? Do you know my race? Or better yet, please, so as we are working off commonly understood definitions, please define racism as what its is to your mind (#thiswillbehilarious).

You literally know nothing about me, my life, my relationships, whether or not they are racially diverse, but you assert with absolute authority, that I am a racist.

As previously stated, you could be the dumbest person on this site. And as previously stated, that is a major accomplishment.

"jplowry777

This is hilarious. Hi VagabondSouffle, have we ever met? What or how did you deduce that I am a racist? Do you know my race? Or better yet, please, so as we are working off commonly understood definitions, please define racism as what its is to your mind (#thiswillbehilarious).

You literally know nothing about me, my life, my relationships, whether or not they are racially diverse, but you assert with absolute authority, that I am a racist."

The assertion was yours (claiming it of laonsite), you massively moronic hypocrite:

"jplowry777 0 ups, 6h, 3 replies

What exactly have you addressed on the topic beyond a childish attempt to equate Nazis in 1940 Germany to modern day racist, while ignoring your own parties complicity throughout history in racism? Oh thats right, you did nothing."

Racially diverse? Lemme guess, some of your best lays were darkies?

So to recap: you cannot explain how gleaned I am racist, you do not know my race, or the depth diversity in my relationships with people. You also failed to define what you believe to be racism.

Got it.

You're a conservative, therefore racist, therefore Democrat.

YOUR logic. YOUR words. YOUR assertion. YOUR truth.
YOU'RE an idiot.

Only you, could screw yourself that hard

"You're a conservative, therefore racist, therefore Democrat"

So I am a racist conservative democrat?

Oh there ya go. Yeah torches. Thats it. You nailed it. Brilliant. Do society a favor and sterilize yourself. Your gene pool is dangerously shallow.

I asked you, and every other poster to explain how the Nazi philosophy of Fascism aligns with Right Wing ideologies such as conservatism. Your response was posting a picture of a racist in a Trump shirt. Followed by posting that notes modern day racist and Nazis both used torches. But my ability is gone? Yours never showed up.

Being of on the right of socialism is not the same as the modern Republican party or the conservative movement?

So by YOUR argument, how is it that you are NOT over extrapolating by placing Hitler on the left, which of course he was not - as exhibited by his desire to stamp it out, claiming it was a Jewish tool to undermine Germanic (conservative) tradition & racial heritage and replace it with 'Zionist' Marxism?

Go back and read the comments. I clearly explain how ideological underpinnings of Left wing ideologies( Marxism, Socialism, Fascism) are related. Meanwhile, nobody claiming Nazis were Right wing have bothered to explain how the ideologies of Fascism and Conservativism align. Here is the hint: They can't do it.

You clearly dismissed what multiple people from different angles (including a German in Germany, for crying out loud) accurately stated by stating you simply disagreed.
There is some connection IN NAME (National Socialist says "Socialist," so it must be binding, just as the German Democratic Republic like the US Democrat Party is Democratic and the People's Republic of China is Republican. See how this works?), but not idealogies and practice. Hitler joined the Nazi Party out of convenience, because it was far easier, quicker and cheaper to join an already established functioning organization with a membership than starting a new one. After some speeches to appeal to workers, he soon departed from its ideals, from breaking up unions (arresting and even killing union leaders) to sending Brownshirts to beat up Communists, and when the Brownshirts wanted accomodations for their platform, dispensed of them as well. Mussolini likewise sent Blackshirts to attack Communists. Stateside we applauded their efforts to counter the spread of Marxism.

Saying someone over extrapolated by placing Hitler on the right so therefore he was not and he is thus on the left relies on the same fallacies you decry.
The difference being that mikkiscorpian quoted HITLER'S OWN WORDS and you countered by saying, "Yeah, but no." Yes, that is an argument, and every bit as bogus as you intended.

“You clearly dismissed what multiple people from different angles (including a German in Germany, for crying out loud) accurately stated by stating you simply disagreed.”
No. Any one reading the post can see that I attacked each premise posted. Hyper-militarism, Anti-egalitarian, Socially-Conserative etc. Mikki stated these factors are determinative at the Nazi’s being right wing. This is debunked by examining socialist countries that in fact have all of these traits. China, Cuba, Russia. The list goes on.
Lets move on to your next idiotic half thought.
“There is some connection IN NAME (National Socialist says "Socialist," so it must be binding, just as the German Democratic Republic like the US Democrat Party is Democratic and the People's Republic of China is Republican. See how this works?), but not idealogies and practice. “
The connection in name is not determinative, and I never said it was. The ideologies of fascism and socialism are the determinative factors. I listed these with examples, and how these examples are antithetical to right wing modern day conservatism. Basically the ideologies of the Left require, no they demand, devotion without exception to the State. I even covered the Father of Fascism (Gentile) and his views which strongly oppose society’s that elevate individualism (which is a cornerstone of conservatism).

Due to comment character limits I cannot address each of your mistakes. I apologize, so we will have to jump to the end.

Now, try to understand the following:

Fascism is rabidly anti-individualistic and stresses the importance of the State only recognizing man in so far as his interest coincide with those of the State. It is also opposed to classic liberalism which denies the State in the name of the individual, here fascism reasserts. No individuals or groups can exist outside the State.

Now please, try to square that summary of the Fascist ideology with the highly individualistic premises espoused by right wing Conseratives.

tl;dr

Got to hyper-militarism tho.
Which is the most hyper-militaristic entity to have ever existed in history?
HINT: Rhymes with USA.

Under Hitler, the Nazi Party departed from socialism, as witnessed by his antagonism towards it including ranks within said party. Hitler went to war with the USSR. Marxist goals are global, classless, nationless - workers of the world unite ring any bells?

Fascists are nationalists, and in Hitler's version, racialists as well.

Sure, it was radical, but radical doesn't require a leftist mentality, just ask Gingrich and his Congressional spawn and Trump.

Hitler had a something of a disdain for leftism and progressivism and multiculturalism and all that introduced - which he described as "decadent" and "degenerate" and a means for Zionists to gain influence and control.
He sought a return to a mythological ancient golden age. Never mind that that would require Germans becoming hunter gatherers again waiting for Aryans to come from Central Asia to domesticate them, the quaint revisionism makes for an adorable fairytale.

A return to a glorified past, hmmm, remind you of anything? A mypoic, monotonal landscape where men were men and women were beneath them and darkies existed solely to serve their needs. Everyone with the same looks, thoughts, values - no funky pink haired weirdos with that crazed Rock n Roll Music to perturb your WASPy ears. That's the appeal of Trump and the Alt Right - individuality and thinking against the grain are irrelevent, Dear Leader will guide you on your mindless quest for non-threatening conformity and take care of your needs.

Do you even have an idea what conservatism means or is your head sutured so far up your colon that you can't see anything outside of that?

You've been schooled by many here, do kindly go and read a book.

You still cannot do it. In all your nonsense, you went back to the debunked descriptors listed by Mikki...Hyper-militarism...what you are saying, albeit unbeknownst to your ignorant ass, is that this characteristic does not manifest in Left Wing political philosophies. That is absurd. Russia, hyper-militarised. There your theory falls on its face. Again, Russia, very nationalist in that they have and represent a strong national identity.

So again, wait, lets step back. There were, admittedly, a plethora of words, polysyllabic words at that, in my last response. Perhaps you were overwhelmed.

So here it is again. This is your task. Square the following underpinnings of the Fascists philosophy with Right Wing conservatism of today:

Fascism is rabidly anti-individualistic and stresses the importance of the State only recognizing man in so far as his interest coincide with those of the State. It is also opposed to classic liberalism which denies the State in the name of the individual, here fascism reasserts. No individuals or groups can exist outside the State.

I'll wait, but I wont hold my breath.

You're still babbling, and all you're saying is that you debunked Mikki? How, exactly, did you do that?

Russia encompasses 11 times zones. NEWS FLASH: Not all of it is inhabited by Russians. That's not exactly nationalistic.
The USSR was bigger, and willing to expand. The reason, on paper anyways, was internationalism.
Germany invaded countries with expansionism in mind, to replace the locals with Germans.
There's a difference there in case you haven't noticed.
Would you care to ask the remants of our indigenous population which one the USA resembles more? Segregation mean anything to you?

You're insulting people here and on other memes because of their gender or political leanings. You're hardly in a position to pretend you and other conservatives are for individualism since stamping that out is at the core of what conservatism seeks - a codified homogeneous monoculture with no room for anything outside of a limited in scope backwards leaning fictional norm of yore.

This is getting boring, and I'm just skimming through your hypocritical bs.

Still can't do it. Got it. Also you're a moron...here lets see just how big of one:

"Germany invaded countries with expansionism in mind, to replace the locals with Germans. " LOL --- its as if you never heard of the Eastern Block...you dumb f**k. You just keep reiterating your dumbness. Its quite profound, almost moving.

I would love to address the rest of your incoherent, ill thought out, bowel movement, but its just not the worth smell to go elbow deep in it.

Again, in all those words, you failed miserable in your non attempt to square the underpinnings of fascism with conservatism. You didn't even try. Its hilarious.

Good thing I didn't hold my breath.

"jplowry777
.....
Germany invaded countries with expansionism in mind, to replace the locals with Germans. " LOL --- its as if you never heard of the Eastern Block...you dumb f**k."

Germany invaded the Eastern Block? the EASTERN BLOCK?

Gosh, you really aren't pretending to be this stupid, are you?

Even if there were time traveling Nazis and that was case, why would they invade the USSR if they were fellow leftist socialists like you stupidly claim? Will they travel to the present and attack your scary boogeymen lefties here too? Commies, Nazis, US Lefties - one and the same yet at war with each other. That is one incredibly luscious scenario you got scripted there.
And they say inbreeding is a bad thing.

Craps getting boring, and you've yet to express anything other than what a butthurt and repetitious ignoramus you are.

Let's call it a wrap, shall we?

Your mountain of dumb is insurmountable. Germany didnt replace the French with Germans, yes they exterminated the French jewish population, but the non-jewish French. Remained. This is by far the most ill informed notion you have put forward.

Germany expanded their holdings through military action. Just as Russia did. Therefore, your notion that only Right wing ideologies are hyper militant is blatantly and patently false. IDIOT!!!

"Even if there were time traveling Nazis and that was case, why would they invade the USSR if they were fellow leftist socialists like you stupidly claim? "

Again just more of your dumb you peeled off your mountain of dumb. Because ideologies are both Left or Right does not mean they have to like each other. This is so reductive its beyond the Pale. Its also historically ignorant...well wait, you have established you are historically ignorant, and well just plain ignorant altogether. Factions in both the Left and Right side of spectrum disagree with each other, vehemently at times, frequently. Its absurd to claim that simply because they all are one side (Left or Right) that they must be aligned. Again, its simply reductive.

"Commies, Nazis, US Lefties - one and the same yet at war with each other. That is one incredibly luscious scenario you got scripted there."

Again you haven't debated the issue, you only stated you disagree. All three of those groups, Commies, Nazis, and yes US Lefties...have alignment in their ideologies far more than Nazi's do with Conservatives. This is exactly why you have danced around the my question and cannot tie the ideologies together.

The Left Wing ideologies as listed here: Communist, Fascist, Far Left Democrats (think AOC) all share a common theme. The elevation of Government over the individual. Conservatism is the exact opposite. This is evident in the policies of the modern left and right. The left seeks total government control, for instance, health care. Univerisal Health Care...does that ring a bell? Conservatives seek a market driven health care system in contrast.

So yes, lets call it a wrap on your lunacy and inability to read with comprehension.

was the* case

Too late to be arsed with that pile of deflection that would have not answered a simple question about his stupidity anyways.

Also a true story

Right, just point out, oh reading champion...where i said "Germany invaded the Eastern Block"

I said Russia created the Eastern Block via military force, similar to the way Germany used military force to invade other countries.

you hypocritical twat waffle.
jesus Christ could you be lacking ANY more self awareness!
now it just like slapping a toddler around...
good lord you are one ignorant turd..lmao..