Typical Progressive

oh dear

So you think you should've been aborted then
It's so funny how pro-abortionists will point at any adult and say "he shouldn't have been aborted" but point at any aborted baby and say "they should've been aborted"
They think they have a 100% success rate 😂

Mental Capacity has nothing to do with human dignity. Why wouldn't we be killing people with Intellectual Disabilities or something, then

How are babies suppose to give you an answer to that
them thrashing and squirming in pain during an abortion should tell you that they certainty don't want do die

If you watch an ultrasound you'll know that this is complete garbage

why do you think the age of a human determines it's moral worth, anyway? Some people can't even feel pain

Whether or not it thrashes or feels pain it is still an act of homicide. If I shoot a sleeping man in the head with a shotgun he would feel no pain, but it is still murder.

Nobody can remember being a fetus.

"Whether or not it thrashes or feels pain it is still an act of homicide. If I shoot a sleeping man in the head with a shotgun he would feel no pain, but it is still murder."

^and this thought process is EXACTLY why the right wing narrative about "states rights" in the context of abortion is and always has been complete horse sh*t.

Prove me wrong. Should people in a state have the right to legally murder?

Also.. the sleeping man is a person, a fetus is not.

People should not be allowed to murder. That's exactly why abortion should be outlawed unless its absolutely necessary. A fetus is a person it's just in a different stage of development. Fetuses in the early staged may not be conscious but that doesn't mean they aren't a person. Somebody who has been born can lose consciousness by sleeping or being knocked out. You can also lose the ability to move yourself or feel pain from certain conditions. Fetuses are people.

"That's exactly why abortion should be outlawed unless its absolutely necessary"

Right. So that whole "states rights" song and dance Repubs did was complete horse sh*t. They want it outlawed. They do not give a f*ck about states rights. Because they think it is murder.

Who will decide when it's necessary?

"Somebody who has been born can lose consciousness by sleeping or being knocked out."

And if they do not regain consciousness, our society has determined that pulling the plug on them is an option.

Nah. A fetus can become a person but it is not one. And I think it is wrong for me as a biological male who will never be pregnant to tell a woman that she has to carry around a fetus for 9 months and let it destroy her vag as she pushes it out and deal with the mental effects of it and then take care of it for 18 years or give it up for adoption.

But sheesh.. y'all kind of forced me into this abortion conversation didn't you?..... just like you want to force pregnant women to give birth. 😖

I don't know the background between state rights or whatever you're on about because I'm not from the US. I just don't like seeing unnecessary loss of life. The doctor would be the one who decides and it is necessary if the woman is guaranteed to die if she gives birth. I'm not denying pain caused by pregnancy either, but killing someone is never the way to handle things. I would like to ask you a question if you don't mind answering. What makes a fetus not a person in your eyes?

"....may seem Orwellian but if it's to save lives then it's not that bad as long as there aren't any unfair arrests."

A nationwide abortion ban would increase the price. The black market for abortion pills would explode. Then maybe we would dump billions more dollars into another failed war on (abortion) drugs. 😖

"saving lives" ..the amount of fetus lives ended would decrease.. for the poor anyway. But the amount of people dying (women) would surely increase. We are already seeing it happen since Roe was overturned. And all of the states which have banned it DO have the contingency allowing it in emergency situations that you were talking about.

"Doctors should have nothing to fear"..except possibly being accused of murder. Who will be the judge & jury for if the doctor's assessment of an "emergency" was correct or not? If the woman survives, maybe the abortion wasn't an emergency. 😬
I think almost any arrests would be unfair.

"If you don't support guns don't buy one."
1. Yes.
2. Not exactly parallel because my neighbor could have 500 abortions in the front yard and at no point could it ever put anyone else in the neighborhood in danger.

Nationwide gun control would be tricky no matter what because there are already so many guns here.

Also while we're on guns, it's somewhat troubling to me that the people who will be forced to have otherwise unwanted births, will be the poorest among us...who might not be able to take care of and watch over their children as easily as someone more wealthy .... And it will happen particularly in red states which have the loosest gun laws. 😬

As far as my Bill meme, it wasn't an "any of these makes it a person" deal. It was generally speaking.

Generally, cars have a windshield. But if I remove the windshield, is it still a car? Yes.
Busses also generally have a windshield, is a bus a car? No.
Generally cars do not have antlers. But if I get those Christmas car antlers is it still a car? Yes.
Now....if you don't have a windshield, windows, engine, tires, gas tank, transmission, interior, seats, steering wheel nor the body... THAT is kind of..... not a car. That is a frame.

And as far people with a tail, I guess you saw that movie Shallow Hal too, huh? 😂 The vast majority of people don't have one tho. When I think of something alive w/ a tail, I generally do not think person. I think...animal.

I feel like I'm trying to explain why a seed isn't a tree.

The tree is the product of growth from a seed. It goes from seed to sapling to tree. Cars are not alive btw. An embryo is alive from conception so what biological milestone must it reach for it to gain it's right not to be terminated according to you? I'd really like to know. Withholding from banning bad things because criminals will do it anyway is not a good reason to withhold it. Criminals sell drugs, criminals steal cars, criminals murder. Should all those things become legal because criminals do it? The pro life movement also supports clear legal language that explicitly protects doctors acting in good faith to save a mother's life as well as maternal healthcare. I try to always donate where I can to charities which help support new/young/poor mothers and pregnant woman. I care deeply about mothers as well as babies.

Ok so background....

Repubs and their presidents have been trying to stack the Supreme Court for decades with enough judges specifically in order to flip the "Roe vs Wade" decision.(which protected a pregnant woman's right to choose to have an abortion.)

In 2022 repubs & trump were finally able to stack the court with enough judges after they blocked Barack Obama's supreme Court pick, and Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg died and was replaced by another right wing judge. So they flipped the decision and a bunch of red states immediately banned or severely restricted abortions.

Democrats recognized that this was horrible and held nationwide protests. Repubs went around saying "States rights! States rights!". But it's obvious they do not believe in states rights in context of abortion. They were just happy some states banned it and it is one step closer to a nationwide ban.

Anyway after a bunch of states banned it the total number of abortions in America went UP. 2023 was the most abortions in a year going back more than a decade. And then 2024 as well. People who wanted one in red states where it was already banned drove to blue states where it wasn't... If they could afford to travel.

So the poorest pregnant people among us who can't afford to travel are basically the ones being forced to give birth. The rich ones are having to drive across states to do it. Or find a way to get the pill. Mothers are now being investigated by the police for having a miscarriage or still birth. Doctors (who you want to be the ones who decide) are now scared about possible legal action against them for simply doing their job. A new black market has been created for abortion pills. Mothers in red states are even dying because they aren't able to get emergency abortion medical care that they need.

And all of this is just flat out bad for America. I hope Democrats get their sh*t together and do what needs to be done in order to flip it back.

If you are against abortions, DON'T HAVE ONE!

This is a similar argument to the ones against gun control. To truly lower abortion rates it needs to be illegal nationwide. That would make it much harder to get an abortion. Police investigations on woman who have had a miscarriage or still birth may seem Orwellian but if it's to save lives then it's not that bad as long as there aren't any unfair arrests. I don't think ALL abortions should be outlawed I think it should be allowed ONLY if it's an emergency. Doctors would determine if it's an emergency and ask the mother's consent before going forward with it. A doctor should never go forward with it without the mother's consent. I'm sorry for potentially causing misunderstanding about when it should happen. Doctors should have nothing to fear if they are following the law (I think, I could be wrong). As for the argument about just not having one if I don't support it that kind of falls apart on it's own. I don't support it because I hate seeing unnecessary deaths. By your logic if you don't support guns you should just not buy one. As for the image, fetuses are homo sapiens like Bill. Consciousness and sentience don't determine if a person is a person since both those things can be lost after birth and yet you retain personhood. A person who is born can also lose their ability to eat by themselves or breath air by themselves which causes the air and food argument to fall apart. The tail doesn't determine if they are human or not because somebody can be born with a tail (although it is rare). A person born with a tail is still human so why does having a tail subtract from the fetus's personhood? A person's size should not contribute to their rights as a human because how does being small affect someone's status as a human? I would like you to explain that to me if you want, no pressure. Being older than zero years is just a sign of how long you have been outside your mother's womb, not a sign of how long you have been alive. You are a person before you are born, you don't transform into a human the second you leave your mother's uterus. At least that's what I think, you may think differently. As for the name argument, did you know a person can be born with no name? Where I live (I don't know about America) the parents have 8 months after birth to pick a name for the child. Does this mean that a baby who is born but doesn't yet have a name isn't a person?

🎶 Deflection 🎶

🎶Erection🎶
😏

*context needed on why I suddenly butted in? Level99CatSith got comment-banned for reasons unknown so she sent me to post that rebuttal*

I'm not a math genius but I would assume it was probably for spamming one of 2 words over and over again..?

Personally I don't flag comments unless it's like... blatant KKK level racism or something like that. But eh....

same.

🎶 Deflection 🎶

🎶 Resurrection 🎶

🎶 Deflection 🎶

🎶 Interjection 🎶

He literally said stuff about Christians first. Read.

That's not all Christians

I didn't mean all Christians, I meant certain conservative Christians who show themselves to be shitty people, some of which i had the displeasure of being screwed by in life. But I would never have any sort of disdain towards Christians who have been decent to me, many of which I have also met in life and have been a good friend to me.

What about me?

You haven't met me when I'm not angry at you.

The motto of America is "In God we trust"