I like how you illustrated this.

nah, see, the glove randomly formed itself from flax and leather by random processes over billions of years… The “hand” shape is meaningless, it happened by chance, you are just creating patterns in your mind out of a need for a greater purpose.

XD. Atheist for REAL sound like this when they talk about Christians, XD

Amazing how many hoops and make believe scenarios they jump through to avoid admitting that creation had a Creator and He has immutable standards that we can't (and won't in some cases) meet. This failure will lead to eternal separation from the Creator in the only other realm available. It's less surprising to me than it used to be, but it still amazes me.

I know, its crazy!!

It is, indeed, crazy.. an insane choice to rebel against the very reason we were made. They choose themselves, their ideas, their way over His. The being that can see the end from the beginning. He even laid out how it would all end and that all against Him would lose in horrific ways and for eternity after. As you said. It's crazy.😔

Serving SELF is what’s important to them.
In turn, they either knowingly or unknowingly serve the Enemy.

Agreed. Perfectly said.

What does that mean? I've never heard an atheist say that

oh, i was just replacing humans, or the world, or (insert evolutionary thing here) with gloves to make a point about how atheists ignore evidences of Intelligent Design in the world.

"no one has observed macroevolution"

If by macroevolution you mean speciation, yes we have

"All that has been observed is small changes within a certain limit"

Define that limit please

"No one has observed, say, a lizard being selectively bred to be a mammal"

The theory of evolution doesn't say we should expect to see that

"You interpreted it to mean that the creatures lower down corresponded to species Darwin theorized lived earlier"

Darwin doesn't determine what scientists today have concluded

"Creationists say that those fossils correspond to the global flood because smaller, slower creatures would have perished first"

How come we never see mammals in the same layers as trilobites? Shouldn't we see rabbits and mice and moles in Precambrian layers at least some of the time?

Perished first when? In a global flood? There never was a global flood.

"Realistically, both of these are Theories"

Creationism isn't a scientific theory because it isn't scientific. Can you explain how creationism follows the scientific method?

"I understand evolution perfectly well"

If you think we should expect to see reptiles giving birth to mammals, no you don't. If you think every single fossil was created at once, no you don't. If you think no advances or discoveries have been made since Darwin's time, no you don't.

"If you want to believe evolution as a creation (or origin) story, go ahead"

Evolution is entirely separate from how life began. If you understood evolution you would know that.

"but ultimately, it is still just an idea from a guy who thought African people were sub-human"

What Darwin thought about people from Africa is irrelevant to the study of evolution and what we know today. Isaac Newton believed in alchemy, does that mean we can throw out all the accurate stuff he believed?

"but until I see better evidence then "I can read the bones, just trust me bro," "

You think the study of evolution is about bones and nothing else?

"I will continue believe all humans are made in the image of God, and that he made this world just for us"

Then your god is a primate, sorry to break it to you. And if he made the world just for us (which is unbelievably arrogant), he must not care about us, because a lot of stuff in the world can easily kill us

Sorry, I was unclear! Macroevolution is not speciation, its the overarching concept of *lizard ancestor* turning into *squirrel* over a long time. Of course I don't expect reptiles to give birth to fully mammals, that's not Darwinian evolution claims. Creationism claims that if God made the world, we would see evidence for it in the irreducible complexity of nature. There is irreducible complexity in nature. If there was a worldwide flood, you would expect to find sedimentary layers filled with the many dead creatures that would result. and what do you know! You find millions of quickly preserved fossils laid down in sedimentary layers all over the earth! You expect to find stars and galaxies fully formed in the earliest reaches of space, and that we find; fully formed galaxies so red shifted as to be too young to form by current evolutionary models. The beliefs and biases behind someone's scientific work is VERY important. For example, you have discredited all science done by creationists because of their world view. Either people who hold unscientific worldviews cannot be trusted in science, or they can. If you can trust Darwin, who wrote "The decent of Man" in order to fit in with a popular trend of comparing African people to monkeys, then you cannot discount creationists who claim the universe was created by God. Darwin was an observant racist, who misinterpreted a lot of zoological evidence to write his theory (which I may add, was not invented by him, but was actually a rather popular idea in the cultural zeitgeist at the time).

But ultimately, I am wondering why you are even on this page anyways? This is a Christian meme page, and you are clearly not a Christian. Maybe we should make a debate page on imgflip so we can go debate there, and not have to bog down this random meme, lol.

"To think that mutations are beneficial shows you have no idea how basic biology works"

Some mutations are beneficial. That's just a fact.

"If evolution is real, it would be the one exception to EVERY biological, chemical, zoological, environmental, and thermodynamic law in all of science"

Explain how evolution violates chemical or thermodynamic laws

"Also, nobody is arguing that generally, organisms can respond to stimuli in their environment and evolve to some degree"

Individual organisms respond to stimuli. Individual organisms don't evolve. Populations evolve.

"Evolution is blind, so blind that any genetic mutations that are attributed to evolution must arise from pure chance with no external stimuli to guide it"

Selection pressure is a big part of evolution. Environmental factors help shape which groups will survive and which groups will not depending on their traits.

"If people who live in areas with lots of malaria have a higher resistance to it, that is NOT because it would benefit them, its just a coincidence"

So the fact that people with a resistance to malaria are more likely to survive and pass on that resistance to future generations is just a huge coincidence? How did you determine that? Do you also think it's just a coincidence that organisms that can breathe underwater are more likely to survive underwater?

"Evolution without God is not only impossible because of all the scientific laws it violates"

Explain which scientific laws it violates and how you know, and also please demonstrate that your specific god exists.

"its also completely untethered from reality"

Small changes accumulating over time and leading to bigger changes is "untethered from reality?"

"Even the example you gave of malaria resistance is due to a deformity in red blood cells. The blood cells are deformed, making it harder for the virus to attach. Its a sickness. People who are resistant to malaria have deformed red blood cells, and often have much higher risks of sickle cell disease, anemia, cytoskeletal abnormalities, strokes, and heart disease."

Yes, there is a trade-off. But having that resistance to malaria stills gives them a better chance of surviving because malaria has such a high mortality rate. Nobody said that mutations or adaptations are perfect. Why did you god create (or allow) malaria in the first place?

All mutations have negative side effect, adaptations don't adaptations are changes in an organism because of external stimuli. This is NOT a factor in evolution. Mutations are copying mistakes in DNA replication and are always accompanied by bad side effects. God didn't "create" malaria to be a danger to humans. Malaria evolved to become deadly after the fall according to our beliefs. (yes, Christians, even creationists, believe that organisms undergo changes over time).

In terms of scientific laws violated, animal evolution moves from more generic information in a species to less genetic information as time goes on. For example, if you have a finch on an island. This finch has the ability to have 4 types of babies, long beak, short beak, fat beak and thin beak. Now suppose that finch has babies. Those babies will be able to produce less different types of beak then their parent was able to produce. (this is an over simplification) Now, lets say there are 8 baby finches, a male and a female of each beak type. If the fat beaked finches fly to an isolated part of the island and reproduce there, none of the babies will have any other beak type other then fat beaks. If you want to change the beak shape of those birds, you will have to introduce a new beak variant gene into the gene pool, e.i. a finch with a thin beak. Evolution claims that the opposite happens. It claims that 1 type of single celled organism, with 1 type of genetic code, instead of decreasing in genetic diversity (as closed gene pools do) that over time in increased.

Proof for God:

1. Evidence of design in nature

2. All people appeal to some force outside themselves. (this could be nature, the universe, the dao, God, chi, ect)

3. If all things that have beginnings are made by things that already exist, then there must be a thing that has continuously existed in an unchanged state of pure being in order to make the first thing.

4. Our world is logical, and can be broken down and explained rationally.

5. A man named Jeshua was executed in front of many witnesses, including personal and political enemies who attested to his death, was seen alive and well by hundreds of people after his death. (500 witnesses to be precise)

(How many more do you want? I can keep going...)

If you were looking for evidence for design in nature, the ability to adapt would be a good place to start. A creator would give the creation some ability to change with their envoriment so that the minute the slight change occurs, the creations dont just desintegrate. Thats a good evidence...

Quick question, do you want to believe in God, or do you not want to believe in God. This is an important question, because if you are not open to belief, then you will not accept anyanswer, no matter how true. A judge who wants to convict can be swayed by no evidence to the contrary, ya, know?

If you were looking for evidence for design in nature, the ability to adapt would be a good place to start. A creator would give the creation some ability to change with their envoriment so that the minute the slight change occurs, the creations dont just desintegrate. Thats a good evidence...

Quick question, do you want to believe in God, or do you not want to believe in God. This is an important question, because if you are not open to belief, then you will not accept anyanswer, no matter how true. A judge who wants to convict can be swayed by no evidence to the contrary, ya, know?

"Doing good feels good because of the conscious which God gave us"

Where's your evidence that god gave people a conscience? And why does my conscience tells me that a lot of the stuff the Bible commands (slavery, genocide, child marriage, etc) is barbaric and reprehensible?

"You can't just say, well, because people are the way people are there is no God"

I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't see any convincing evidence that god exists.

"Ultimately, saying that good people in society arose because we are social creatures begs the question why we are social creatures at all"

Some creatures are social, some aren't. Humans are social creatures, and it benefits us.

"God made us like that in order to be able to have a deeper, more personal relationship with him for eternity, is an answer"

It's an answer, not necessarily a correct answer. Why are there people who sincerely, earnestly ask god to reveal himself to them, and get no reply? Why are there entire people groups who have never heard of the god of the Bible?

"Saying "because that's just how it is" is not"

That's literally what you're doing. You're saying "god did this" or "god did that" and not backing up those claims with evidence.

If every time I give you an example of why God exists, you just say "no it doesn't." that not a debate. If you want earnest answers, ask earnest questions, and actually contemplate the response. I get that the world is a sad place filled with evil, but ultimately, that is our fault as humans. God gave us the greatest gift one could ever give, life and consciousness to people, and we used that gift to invent homicide, theft, racism, violence, suicide, cruelty, selfishness, sexual assault, betrayal, and much more evil things. God gave us a perfect world, and we broke it almost immediately upon getting it. And what did God say after we broke it? He said; "I will fix it, even if it costs me everything." He is giving us, as humans, a chance. A chance to give up our evil ways, and turn to him. He dosnt want to destroy us, so he is waiting as long as he can before he returns to put an end to all evil.

Everyone who asks of the Lord will receive an answer. Its not always the answer we expect. Sometimes the answer is no, and those are hard days. Sometimes the answer is yes, and those days are amazing. But most of the time, and answer is wait. And that is the most difficult answer of all. As in life, God is not a 1-stop solution for our earthly problems, he is a surgeon, carefully performing life-saving operations. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes we don't notice that he's working at all, but in the end, we will be able to see the finished product of his work. Christian life is like being in the hospital. If we never let the doctor admit us, we can never get a diagnosis. If we never let the doctor operate, we will never be cured.

If the universe was intelligently designed, it would look a lot better than this

That is not a logical argument…it’s a fallacy…What you said has nothing to do with evidences for intelligent design. You might as well have said, “well, if cheese was actually made from milk, then it would taste better then this…” like, what?

It's my observation from looking at the world around me. I don't see any evidence that this universe was created by an intelligent designer because of all the things that an intelligent designer probably wouldn't have included in this universe.

If you think an intelligent designer made everything, how do you explain the things that look poorly designed?

In the 3rd chapter of the Bible (to answer your question) Humans specifically choose a damaged world over the perfect one God created. We let evil be ruler of this. We let in death, evil, pain, everything bad. and what’s worse? We made OURSELVES evil. Which means, if God were to purge all evil from the world, he would have to destroy everything. Which he is going to do, he is just giving us, and all of humanity a chance to repent and accept his gift of salvation from our own natures of sin and death.

Saying you don't see evidence of design because you think an intelligent designer would do something different is still not a proof. It is an opinion that can hole for sure, but its is still not a proof, or a piece of evidence.

Here is one proof of an intelligent designer I really like: All the planets of the solar system hold the earth in right place, around one of the most unique stars in our universe(our sun is extremely safe compared to most others) in the just right conditions to make life possible. Our solar system is in just the right place in the galaxies that we can see the galaxy itself, and we are far away from many of the dangers that the Milky Way holds (like quasars and black holes) Our galaxy works like a clock (and looks a little like one too), which keeps our planet unchanging enough that life can exist and thrive.

Talking about what the Bible says is just reading from a storybook. I have no reason to believe that that story is true, just like I have no reason to believe that any other creation myth is true.

If God created a world and humans messed it up, it's God's fault for making the world that could even be messed up in the first place. Why can't the perfect God make a world that humans couldn't mess up?

How can you tell the difference between a god that is giving us time to repent and a god that doesn't even exist?

When I say that I don't see evidence of an intelligent designer, I am not saying that's proof that one doesn't exist. I'm just explaining the reason I don't believe in one.

"All the planets of the solar system hold the earth in right place"

No they don't, gravity keeps the Earth around the sun

"in the just right conditions to make life possible"

If the universe was designed for life, wouldn't the conditions to make life possible exist on every planet?

What you're doing is taking the way things are and saying that they were intentionally meant to be this way. Just because the conditions on this planet are suitable for life doesn't mean this planet was made specifically for life.

"Our solar system is in just the right place in the galaxies that we can see the galaxy itself"

If our solar system were anywhere else in the galaxy, we would probably still be able to see the galaxy. But even if we couldn't, so what?

"and we are far away from many of the dangers that the Milky Way holds (like quasars and black holes)"

You're just doing the same thing again. You're taking the way things are and saying that they had to be this way on purpose.

"Our galaxy works like a clock (and looks a little like one too), which keeps our planet unchanging enough that life can exist and thrive."

Life exists on this planet right now. Life has not always existed on this planet and life will not always exist on this planet.

1st, I answered your first counter argument in another comment. God Doesn't want robots or pets, he made us to be humans, with independent thought, and even though that came with the risk of rebellion, he still gave us the gift of consciousness, and we rebelled.

2nd, you can tell the difference between a God who is giving us time to repent and a God that doesn’t exist by the existence of conscious. All humans can tell the difference between “right” and “wrong” If there is Good and Bad, there has to be a creator, because if things are only natural, there is only beneficial and non-beneficial. (in a beneficial/non-beneficial morality system, the holocaust, adultery, murder, and theft are all “beneficial” to the person committing them)

3rd, God made the sun to hold the plants in orbit. God made the gravity to keep everything in place. Thats what I was claiming.

4th. I’m saying a GOOD designer WOULD put us a safe distance from galactic threats

5th; Evolution is scientifically impossible without a God/intelligent designer because all the genetic mutations needed for life to evolve from single cell organisms are genetic impossibilities in nature. All genetic mutations are detrimental and make the organism weaker and less likely to survive. All genetic mutations need complete DNA to begin with…

"All humans can tell the difference between “right” and “wrong” If there is Good and Bad, there has to be a creator, because if things are only natural, there is only beneficial and non-beneficial. (in a beneficial/non-beneficial morality system, the holocaust, adultery, murder, and theft are all “beneficial” to the person committing them)"

There's a perfectly natural explanation for morality. Humans are social creatures and it benefits our survival when we cooperate and get along and don't hurt each other. But if you think morality comes from God, then that means it is whatever God says it is. So like in the Bible, if God tells you to go slaughter other people, including babies and little kids, that's the right thing to do because God told you to do it.

Doing something selfish may benefit you in the short term, but it hurts you in the long run because if you steal and hurt other people, society will put you in prison and take away your freedom, which is not good for you

"Evolution is scientifically impossible without a God/intelligent designer"

No it's not

"all the genetic mutations needed for life to evolve from single cell organisms are genetic impossibilities in nature"

No they aren't

"All genetic mutations are detrimental"

You do realize there are mutations which benefit organisms right? Every single beneficial trait an animal has is the result of a mutation. People with darker skin often have a mutation that makes them less likely to contract malaria. Humans developed a mutation which allows us to consume milk without getting sick, which gives us another food source. That's just two examples. To say that all mutations are detrimental shows you have absolutely no idea how evolution works.

To think that mutations are beneficial shows you have no idea how basic biology works. If evolution is real, it would be the one exception to EVERY biological, chemical, zoological, environmental, and thermodynamic law in all of science. Also, nobody is arguing that generally, organisms can respond to stimuli in their environment and evolve to some degree. But Evolution does not claim that. Evolution claims to operate WITHOUT OUTSIDE STIMULI to the organism. Technically speaking, evolution does not claim to "make a proto-bird slowly develop wings to fly," it claims to just open the possibility of every ability and throw one at a random genetic code. Evolution is blind, so blind that any genetic mutations that are attributed to evolution must arise from pure chance with no external stimuli to guide it. If people who live in areas with lots of malaria have a higher resistance to it, that is NOT because it would benefit them, its just a coincidence. Evolution without God is not only impossible because of all the scientific laws it violates, its also completely untethered from reality and the world where all changes in an organism are driven by external stimuli and are applied because the organism already has the genetic ability to use new DNA capability to adapt. Even the example you gave of malaria resistance is due to a deformity in red blood cells. The blood cells are deformed, making it harder for the virus to attach. Its a sickness. People who are resistant to malaria have deformed red blood cells, and often have much higher risks of sickle cell disease, anemia, cytoskeletal abnormalities, strokes, and heart disease.

Doing good feels good because of the conscious which God gave us. Even at the beginning of the Bible, God says "it is not good for man to be alone" meaning according to the Christian scriptures, God made us to be social creatures. You can't just say, well, because people are the way people are there is no God, that's not an argument, that just saying "because the building is blue, no one made it that way." Ultimately, saying that good people in society arose because we are social creatures begs the question why we are social creatures at all. God made us like that in order to be able to have a deeper, more personal relationship with him for eternity, is an answer. Saying "because that's just how it is" is not.

Also, I'm pretty sure just saying "no its not" to each of the points that I raised is not a valid arguing technique. 💖✝️

If you have no reason to believe any creation myth, you have to reason to believe darwinian evolution.

Evolution isn't a creation myth. It has nothing to do with creation, and it has nothing to do with mythology. It is just an observed fact of nature. And you have already demonstrated that you don't even understand it.

As trite as this is, no one has observed macroevolution. All that has been observed is small changes within a certain limit. No one has observed, say, a lizard being selectively bred to be a mammal. Or even a purely asexually reproducing species developing sexual reproduction. All you have are dead creatures stacked in slices of earth. You interpreted it to mean that the creatures lower down corresponded to species Darwin theorized lived earlier. Creationists say that those fossils correspond to the global flood because smaller, slower creatures would have perished first. Realistically, both of these are Theories. Neither one can be observed by anyone alive today. I understand evolution perfectly well. Its a really fun idea, especially be someone who was in the business of breeding animals, but ultimately, there is very little evidence that creatures can randomly, accidently, and spontaneously generate the "changes" required by macro-evolution to work large scale. If you want to believe evolution as a creation (or origin) story, go ahead, but ultimately, it is still just an idea from a guy who thought African people were sub-human, and needed an excuse to believe so. "Closer to their evolutionary ancestors" might work for Charles Darwin, the inbred English cow breeder, but until I see better evidence then "I can read the bones, just trust me bro," I will continue believe all humans are made in the image of God, and that he made this world just for us.