I do ONE Push-Up

This guy has basically molested every single one of his 100,000 of his church members.

This guy's net worth is over $300 million.

Read about his wealth here: https://www.tuko.co.ke/311116-kenneth-copeland-net-worth-house-cars-private-jet.html

Truly one of God's children.

Yes and that is not good

My church doesn't do that

But too many have.

Also, predators tend to be secret about what they're doing so you don't really know.

Predators? Buddy really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States

This link is for catholic churches, but they aren't the only denomination to commit those crimes.

Well I am not a predator and if it my pastor turns out to be. Straight to jail

Good.

Yay he agrees

Christians can still be logical people. You can use logic for some things and use faith for the rest.

So faith is good then

Sometimes.

Not all faiths/beliefs are good.

Which ones?

If someone has faith that god provides for them so they refuse to work and instead benefit off of others being generous, that is not good.

Ha! Oh boy you still have to work god will provide for by different ways, he won't just make a burger appear in front of you. He might just make your food better (lol bad example)

People don't need to have faith in a god to know that it is wrong.

It scares me when someone says, "Murder is wrong because god says so."

Murder is wrong because it is unfair to another human being. I don't need a god to tell me that murder is bad.

But why is it unfair? How do you know that it being unfair is a bad thing?

[...how can we appeal to a moral authority to justify these claims of "Right" and "Wrong" if there is no moral authority?]

You're like a colorblind individual asking how can we know what green is if there's no color authority. There is a general consensus about what green is and therefore what things are green. People are free to go against that grain, but they will be in a small and dismissed minority.

In the case of morality, people with views that go against the grain get to pay fines, go to prison or even be executed. Not because of a moral authority, but because enough people have an innate moral compass to agree on many basic rules. Like don't murder for example. And they don't need to be told this by a dusty tome translated edited censored retranslated re-edited and spoon fed to them before they had the necessary faculties to defend against it. As far as I'm concerned, religion is sociological malware. It's an informational virus that people infect their children with, and most carry and spread that infection their whole life. The whole thing strikes me as terribly immoral, but to each their own.

Fine. Agree to Disagree i guess.

Do you think the slaves believed it was fair?

No but the slaves werent people according to society, so according to that logic, slavery wasnt immoral.

Because you're ending someone else's chances to do anything.

Because I'm a regular human with empathy.

Because it's unfair.

What im saying is that we have this sense of whats right and whats wrong.
So why do we know what right and wrong even mean? and how can we appeal to a moral authority to justify these claims of "Right" and "Wrong" if there is no moral authority?

But why is that bad?

"Lego0626

Wait so he is saying rape is ok?"

How can he be, when he's saying the exact opposite?
He's saying that he does not rape because rape is wrong, he knows it's wrong, he doesn't need the spectre of a bearded bogeyman up in the sky waiting to curse him with eternal damnation to prevent him from raping.

If that's the sole source of morality for people, then they're missing their own point. Bad things are bad because they're bad, not because we're going to suffer if we get caught doing them.

Yes, I literally can. I said society deems it wrong and illegal so you would be punished.

Just because a country doesn't see something as immoral doesn't mean other countries believe the same thing.

If everyone on earth genuinely believed stealing was morally right, stealing wouldn't be immoral.

That's how we decide things, but of course, the majority does not believe stealing is fair.

So there was a time when slavery was Moral?

Because we have empathy. Empathy is being able to see and feel something from someone else's point of view.

People know if something is unfair to another person.

But who decides what is and isnt unfair?

The majority.

I would say morality is subjective, but society has rules that people need to follow. If society says murder is wrong, murders will be punished. I believe murder is wrong because it is unfair to the other person, not because someone wrote it on a stone a few thousand years ago.

If morality is subjective, then you cant make any argument that im not allowed to punch you in the face. Even if "society" has a rule, that doesent make it right. A lot of Jews were killed because society had a rule, but I think we both agree that that was wrong.

*murderers

Instinct. It's a trait naturally selected for because hyperbolically self-centered individuals tended to have a poorer survival rate than people who worked together. Evolutionary pressure favored individuals who worked as a group. Empathy is a natural side effect of this, which is why most people have it. So we know it's wrong to murder because there's an evolutionary advantage to not murdering people. This is a norm found even in predominantly atheist countries. It's literally coded in our genes.

Put another way, over time the tendency to murder actually killed itself off.

Then why do people still kill eachother?

[If morality is subjective, then you cant make any argument that im not allowed to punch you in the face.]

The argument isn't that you're not allowed to--it's that there are explicit consequences for that action. Situationally it would be okay (a boxing match, for example), but generally it constitutes assault, which violates the right of the offended party to not get punched in the face. By all means do whatever you want--that's precisely what free will is. But you don't act in a vacuum and actions have consequences. Even if you personally don't see a problem with assault, most people do, so be prepared to pay the price. (Or don't be prepared--the consequences are there either way.)

Wait so he is saying rape is ok?

Situationally it's still productive. Most "civilized" nations exist because they collectively exterminated the indigenous populations. Any time there's a border dispute it's advantageous for one population to eradicate the opposing population. As far as infighting, some countries are ruled by psychopaths who place no value on the lives of the people they rule. And there are still plenty of psychopaths in the general population. Modern life pushes many people over the edge. Pretty sure school shootings weren't a thing prior to the 90's and now they happen multiple times every day. The point is that there isn't an inherent murderous impulse in everyone that can only be quelled by the belief in a flying Jew who will give you pie in the sky when you die if you're good or cast you into some nebulous state of infinite torment if you're bad. That should be patently obvious bullshit to anyone with a functioning brain and the courage to actually use it.

I agree with the first part. I would challenge you depiction of Christianity though.

Yes but atheism promotes moral ambiguity. As in the cultural times say what is moral

Humans have a basic sens of right and wrong. I don't need society to tell me it's wrong to murder people.

If humans have a sense of right and wrong that means we must have something linking us

Yes, we all have a sense of what is and isn't fair.

I don't need to be told ending someone's existence is unfair. I know it's wrong because of logic.

So someone who doesn't know how to use logic know naught morals

Yes, if someone refuses logic, they don't have a moral compass.

So according to you most of the world doesn't have a moral compass because we believe in a god

Also natural law

You hear about Christian leaders who molest kids because it's not what's expected if them. If an atheist molests someone no one cares as much

I'm pretty sure it's all the same to the victims. Although you raise a good point: sexual misconduct in religious communities is so common that it should surprise no one to know their leaders are also part of the problem.

Of course sexual abuse is a fundamental part of religious culture. Muhammad married a 9 year old and Mary was like 15 when she got knocked up. The bible codified the selling of daughters like chattle. Maybe if religion preached actual morals instead of the trash in the bible, its moral degeneracy wouldn't be quite so rampant.

People knocked at 15 because that was the normal age for marrying. People didn't live as long and they wanted sons and daughter before their family line died out. And Muhammad is a liar... he twisted the Bible. If religios leaders are being innapropriate, that should be a reminder of how strong lust is for anybody