Change My Mind

And you seem to be suggesting that the Jewish peoples entire way for life and culture is a fallacy, which isn't true. Yes Christians have done terrible things, as Kurt Vonnegut put it, the gospels point is: don't kill people with connections. Christians justify awful things. But there are incredibly smart, and faithful, and good Christians and others who follow religions, I including Albert Einstein, who wanted to illuminate God's creation. Yes many Christians are awful people, and yes, the Bible can be and say gruesome things. But you can't know the ways of God, only what he does for and to us.

I can't understand atheists who are so adamant that god is a rouse, despite the fact of our complex, imperfect and ordered at the same time universe. It is so crazy, the world we live in, that how can one not say thanks to God when they wake up in a beautiful and complex world? I for one, a well educated guy, believe that there has to be someone-or something, above it all.and yet, there's also conflict that make s you wonder why. So excuse me for believing there is a better place after this, a place where I could hopefully meet our creator, and ask him eternal questions. That would be great, and that's why I have faith.

Read comment i posted

Alr

XD i just wanted da points

That's a mega valid reason to be religious. However the complexity of reality is not empirical evidence of a god.

I guess that's the whole point of my faith though, believing with no proof. But I respect your argument

That's true, all I'm saying is there isn't any evidence to prove he isn't real, so I'll just keep praying, because who really knows?

In that logic, I just focus on being a good person. Cuz no matter what God exists, if I'm a good person and they're a good God, it'll work out for me.

True

Its pretty hard to convince an atheist to convert to Christianity... well for me at least

That’s because you need faith to believe. Faith doesn’t need evidence. Faith is the opposite of evidence.
I was a Christian for 52 years. A missionary, SS teacher, preached in multiple churches. Was a church planter.
Then I woke up and realized it’s all a bunch of made up fairytales from middle eastern goat herders.

Why is an old man using imgflip

I just clicked your profile, WTF ARE YOU POSTING MY MAN

Is there an age maximum?
About ten years ago there was a poll on here asking everyone’s age. Average was something like 42.

Ok

But why are you posting horny shit

Because having reached puberty is a thing and girls aren't so icky-poo after that,,,

Why are you so concerned about what I'm doing?

yeah i.... idk, just do your horny shit im gonna mind my own business

buttons don't stop working with old age. the product value just decreases.

Don't like it? You don't have to be here.

imgflip existed before 2020 locked a bunch of children out of school who then had nothing else to do.
In fact, do a little research into what is referred to as the imgflip Golden Era of 2015 - 17 and what made it that.
HINT: it wasn't Roblox memes on the Middle School stream,,,

feel bad for u that sucks u might have been doing that for show but its really about ur love for God not being perfect

How was he doing it for show?

Nah, I did the whole Christian thing for more decades than you've been alive, was a missionary, preached in lots of churches, led Bible studies, was a church planter. Then one day I realized my delusion, left the church, and went on with life. It's great! I don't have to cling to the miscellaneous ramblings of a bunch of 2000-3000 year old middle eastern goat herding shaman intent on control of land, wealth, women and societies....because that's basically all religion is.

Jesus promised "I will never leave you nor forsake you." The good shepherd doesn't go around losing sheep. If you were truly a born again Christian, then you still are. If a soldier walks away from the military, is he no longer a soldier? No, he is still a soldier, just a very naughty one who will be disciplined. Someday, when Jesus welcomes you home, you will realize what a living testimony you were of God's Grace, Mercy and Patience. "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will NOT impute sin." God's promises are sure and unchanging, whether you like it or not.

LOL. The old 'no true scotsman' argument fails yet again! Pathetic.

HOW can I really be expected to believe:
-there was a magic tree in an unspoiled and perfect garden that would grant eternal life to anyone who ate from it?
-there was ANOTHER magic tree, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that would make you know the difference between good and evil if you ate its fruit because apparently no one alive (two people LOL) knew the difference prior to eating from it?
-there was a talking snake, with vocal chords no less, who tricked a woman into eating from the knowledge tree?
-that the two humans who ate from the magical Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil had no such knowledge of good vs. evil prior to partaking … so therefore, how could they even comprehend that disobedience was wrong/evil?
-that those same two humans could understand the concept of death for their disobedience when death wasn’t even invented (who invented it?) and death wasn’t even a thing they could comprehend? Sounds like Adam and Eve were set up to fail.
-that God really meant “spiritual death” even though the text says no such thing? You gotta jump through flaming hoops to make it make sense -- kinda like “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.” Uh, nope.
-that Adam and Eve should’ve known what “spiritual death” was having been alive for only a couple of hours or days or … who knows?
-that God brought the millions upon millions of species of animals to Adam and asked him to make up names for them? And remember them in the Hebrew language which wasn’t even around until roughly 800 BCE?
-that the entire human population came from only two individuals (twice) when DNA science proves that there have never been fewer than 10,000 humans? Remember populations evolve. Individuals do not.
-that there were actual god/human hybrids roaming the earth, “men of renown”?
-that there are humanoid type creatures with WINGS, who have magical powers and primarily reside in another dimension but can see into ours and travel back and forth as dictated by their boss?

-that these humanoid creatures once had brethren, one third of which revolted against God and now those guys lost their wings (in some cases) and instead grew incredibly ugly, grew pointed tails, and grew horns out of their heads? Some now carry around pitchforks…and like the previously mentioned humanoids with wings, they too can see into our dimension and travel back and forth as dictated by their boss. Sometimes these bad humanoid creatures inhabit the bodies of actual humans and make them do and say all sorts of crazy, even superhuman, things. Head spinning around, vomiting like a firehose, and levitation seem to be their favorites.
-that a donkey, which doesn't have the anatomical features to even form words, actually spoke to warn a man about an unforgiving angel with a flaming sword ... an angel that the man couldn't see but the donkey could? So maybe donkeys can see into the angel/demon dimension?
-there is an unforgiving god who destroyed every living thing (except fish and mammals in the sea) by way of a worldwide flood, for which there is zero worldwide evidence? There IS evidence of local floods … no one disputes that … but there is zero evidence that this flood was worldwide, lasted less than a year, and covered Mt Everest by 20 feet or so ..
-that carnivores exited the ark and ate nothing until the herbivores could reproduce in sufficient quantities that their populations wouldn’t be destroyed by a couple of big cats … or in the case of The Ark Encounter, all the meat eating dinosaurs (LOL - people really believe this drivel)?
-that the earth, covered in a saltwater brine for a year, was magically able to generate enough vegetation and produce to feed Noah, his family, and the millions of animals exiting the ark … INSTANTLY?
-that Noah was somehow able to spread unique seeds to every continent so that each continent had it’s own highly unique plants and it’s own unique animals.
-that Sodom and Gomorrah were actual cities (neither of which has ever been found archaeologically) and they were destroyed by "fire and brimstone"? Please define what this “fire and brimstone” actually IS. There should be evidence somewhere unless God hid it …
-that a woman was turned into a pillar of salt because she glanced at said fire and brimstone?
-that a magic bush actually burned with fire yet was still there? Where is this undying bush today? Surely it’s still around …

-that 3 million people left Egypt and went south to cross the Red Sea, when the so-called "Promised Land" was a 3-5 day walk away from where they already were?
-that sticks turned into snakes and then back again?
-that the Nile River turned to blood? Not just turned red -- actually turned into blood.
-that a pillar of cloud and a pillar of fire led the Hebrews through the dessert ... in circles … for 40 years … wait, maybe it was 80 years since that entire generation had to die first?
-that a "death angel" swept through Egypt and only killed the firstborn of everything (livestock AND humans) who didn't have lamb's blood sprinkled by a poisonous plant on their door posts and mantles?
-that three million people had enough cattle, sheep, goats, vegetables, grain, water, tools, flax, linen, pottery, lumber and firewood to survive for 40-80 years in the dessert but left not one shred of evidence in the form of broken pottery, wagon wheels, axles, bones, dried fozzilized animal feces, campfire charcoal, or dead bodies/bones from the millions of sheep they sacrificed or from the estimated 2 million people that had to have died along the way?
-that bread fell from heaven for 40-80 years, enough to feed those 3 million?
-that millions of quail blew up from the ocean to feed those people?
-that water came out of a rock after being struck by a stick?
-that the earth opened up and swallowed ** only ** the rebellious followers of Korah?
-that meteorites fell from the sky and ** only ** killed the enemies of the Hebrews?
-that the earth suddenly stopped spinning around the sun for a full 24 hours (the sun “stood still”)?
-that human skeletons can come back to life and walk around? (Ezekiel -- who also saw a UFO)
-that camels were around during Abraham's time when science shows they were not domesticated in the Middle East until 930 BCE?
-that rapists get to marry their victims?
-that the blood of a bird can cure leprosy? Leviticus 14:4-7
-that crippled people or those with Downs Syndrome are not allowed in church?
-that non-virgin brides are to be stoned to death?

-that slavery of other peoples from other nations is OK -- AND you can sell your own kids into slavery if you need the cash?
-that a disembodied hand appeared out of nowhere to write prophesy on a wall for Daniel to read then supposedly disappeared again?
-that three young men actually walked around in a "furnace" -- how big was this thing? Surely there should be furnaces of this type found in the archeological record … no???
-that said furnace had a thermostat and could be heated “7 times hotter” than normal? Did they have thermometers to measure this increase in heat because thermometers were not created until the mid 1800s?
-that a man had magic hair that made him strong? So. Much. Magic.
-that a stone or iron or bronze axe head actually floated to the top of the water because someone said a magical incantation (also known as “prayer”)?
-that a widow's oil and flour never ran out when they originally had enough for only one meal?
-that a man could be swallowed by a whale (or fish depending on which story you read) and the animal's stomach acid wouldn't kill him after three days … three days without oxygen? Inside the stomach of an animal…
-that a loving god would actually harden the heart of a brutal dictator so HE could receive glory? How narcissistic can you get?
-that God actually had to tell the Israelites in Deut 23:9 "when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. For the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you"? God coulda stepped in it??? Inspired, inerrant, infallible, and authoritative right there …
-that Lot was called righteous and listed as one of the "heroes of the faith" after he offered his two virgin daughters to be gang raped and THEN got them pregnant himself? His. Own. Daughters. And he is celebrated by the author of Hebrews and by default, God himself, as a hero of the faith? Would YOU celebrate such a person? Why or why not?
-that Saul asked for 100 foreskins from David so he could marry his daughter but David returned with 200 foreskins? Think on that request for a moment. Really…??? Substitute foreskins for p**is tips. David had to handle the manhood of 200 other guys. What is it with God and foreskins?

-that God got mad at Moses and decided to kill him but his wife, Zipporah (who’s father was a Midianite priest), read God's mind from afar and knew that a foreskin from her son would appease God? What is it with p**is tips? Sheesh man.
- that God didn’t stop Jephthah from performing HUMAN SACRIFICE of his own daughter
** TO ** God as a way to say “thanks for ‘helping’ me defeat some enemies.” This is sickening. He slit his own daughter’s throat AS WORSHIP TO HIS GOD. The real question is -- knowing all this -- why did God allow Jephthah’s daughter to be the first thing to exit his house? If you were God, how would YOU have handled this? I have a feeling YOU’RE better at this than this monster you call ‘God.’ “Hey Jesus, watch this, Imma make him kill his little girl. The Jews celebrate/remember disgusting travesty today with a four day ritual called Tanat L’vat Yiftach.
-that hundreds of zombies came out of their tombs and walked around Jerusalem but NOT ONE actual (real) historian bothered to record it … and in the Gospels, ONLY Matthew did? Really?
-that not one but TWO earthquakes hit Jerusalem (and the rocks were split) and not one actual (real) historian recorded them?
-that an absolutely BRUTAL Roman governor, Pilate, didn’t get royally ticked off when he received reports about a guy he put to death STILL wandering around the city for up to 40 days? Pilate was removed from his position because his brutality was too much even for Rome! And this is the guy that supposedly released a known rebel against the state in order to crucify Jesus?
-that the sun was darkened for THREE HOURS and not one actual (real) historian recorded it? Not even three other gospel writers?
-that when his rules (some were weird, some were silly, some were understandable) were being broken by humans, this benevolent “god” had his anger appeased by the slaughtering of lambs, goats, cows, certain birds, and eventually his own son? How is YOUR anger appeased?
-that one day, you’ll hear magical trumpets in the sky and a dude will appear all over the globe at once and people will shed their clothes and fly naked but “clothed in righteousness” (HAHA, really?) into the sky to go live in another dimension that exists without time?

You can’t be serious. This sounds more like the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings or Superman or Harry Potter type stuff. I can no longer force myself to believe these fairytales, myths, legends, and fables.

Dude, I've thought this through more thoroughly than you ever will. In order to indoctrinate their followers and secure obedience, religions frequently tear people down, creating an emptiness that must then be filled with Jesus, Allah, Joseph Smith, Vishnu, Odin, Horus, or any other deity. People are told that they are inherently bad or sinful and that the only way to become good is by giving over control of their lives to faith in some unseeable being..

As there is no evidence that any of that is true, religion, in effect, is creating an imaginary problem simply so that it can sell an imaginary solution. The learned helplessness created by religion can open the way for charlatans and con artists to take advantage of gullible, vulnerable people. False ideas about the universe, including promises that good people are rewarded and sinful people punished, can set false expectations among believers and strip them of the tools they need to properly cope with the challenging events of their lives in a healthy way. It’s often better to face reality head-on and attempt to cope with it directly rather than comfort oneself with deception. As Bertrand Russell once said, “No satisfaction based upon self-deception is solid, and, however unpleasant the truth may be, it is better to face it once for all, to get used to it, and to proceed to build your life in accordance with it.”

Much of this impulse in human culture to create a religion is driven by people's own existential angst, their innate and instinctive fear of death, their own death and the death of the people they love. It can seem easier to deal with death by convincing ourselves that it is not real. "My loved one is not dead - they are in heaven and we will see each other again!", we tell ourselves. And ... "Of course I will never 'die!' that's absurd! I'll just go to a 'better' place."

The other impulse in human culture to create a religion is driven by the desire for power and money. An all powerful god wouldn't need your money but his representatives are always crowing about the tithe. Power and wealth. Power over other men. Power over women. Power over culture. Power over society. That's all religion is truly about at its core.

You all need to grow up. And make the most of the time you actually do have. You are mortal. Death is real...get over it. I sincerely and earnestly do not believe that god or gods exist because there hasn't been any compelling evidence presented to me. Feelings don't count.

But there it is, god gets mad at people for no reason, and God sometimes does questionable things, like to job for example. But we cannot know the true nature of God! I cannot put it any simpler. We can only infer yow he is based on what happens to us. Sure, bad things happen, but look at how beautiful the world is, and how incredible it is that we're here, it's hard to say, but it certainly feels like bad things happen for a reason, and so do good things. I believe in free will, but I think it's possible for there to be some kind of universal plan

What I'm saying is, who's to say there's no god, or no grand architect at least? You say, then I woke up, when in actuality you just narrowed your mind further. There is no proof for him, yes, but no proof against him either. Humans cannot know the ways of God he's above us in every way. You can't just say there's no god when you don't have proof he's not real. Sure, there's no proof he is real, but that's what faith is For You say they were made up, but we don't actually know what happened. Miracle or not, the document is the Bible, and that's the one we've got.

There is no proof that fairies, pixies, rainbow colored unicorns, and leprechauns don’t exist either. But like your god/gods, evidence is non existent. It simply isn’t there. And you really need to read up on how your preferred “holy” book came to be. And read all the dozens of books that were excluded, and why Iranaeus dictated that there only be four gospels when there are about 60 others that were excluded by a vote of men at the council of Nicea.

Had Constantine decided that Zoroastrianism or Mithraism were to be the official religion of Rome, you’d be advocating for those and I’d still be an atheist.

Yes. I woke up from a delusion that had been hammered into my head for 52 years much like it’s been hammered into yours.

Try considering that you’ve been wrong and read some books that offer a robust view of the other side of your preferred beliefs.

But … you won’t. You’re a believer. And that says it all. You believe in spite of the evidence or even evidence to the contrary.

A god that meets my moral standards would care more about a person being a good person, than a person being a Christian or an atheist.

That geezers right tho. You should follow the religion that makes you happy or aligns with your morals.

What ever argument you have, I don't understand. Because gods do bad things. "Oh, humans created God, it was them who started it" ok, well who came up with humans? God said he created us in his image, because if you are Christian at least, you believe Jesus is human and God. That's why we are bad and good, and that's why God does bad and good things. Why would he make us if not to worship him in awe of his creation? Idk, man. People just seem so narrowmineded about the universe, thinking they have all the answers. But sometimes miracles happen, actually happen, and I just can't see a way where there would t be a god

i just posted this for points bro i dont know any of this shit

I see

"Why would he make us if not to worship him in awe of his creation?"

I would not worship a God who created me for that purpose.

I cant change your mind if I completely agree