The lack of Student and classroom discipline ...

One of the basic rules

Now it's a violation of human rights or something...

Where did you get that idea. The reason why conservatives are pulling their kids out of public schools is specifically because they are being under-educated and mis-educated. If they want their kids to have a better education then they would never put up with a private or charter school going bad.

Of course, public schools are underfunded. And when those same parents demand government divert what little money should be going to public from schools to those… they’ve solved nothing. I’m not too keen on wasteful spending either but pulling funding from public schools is the opposite of wasteful spending.

"Of course, public schools are underfunded."

That is absolute crap. It was proved that flooding schools with cash does not improve education. Several years ago Kansas City levied a new tax just for schools. They had a no expense spared policy in upgrading their schools with all of the latest and greatest teaching aides.

So what happened? The parent looked at the schools as handling their jobs for them and the teachers didn't include the parents in their own children's education. Consequently, the Kansas City School district lost it's accreditation. Had they focused on the parents (which costs nothing to the taxpayer) they could have actually kept their accreditation and the students would have performed better.

They kept all of the stuff they spent money on but they cut back on their spending and they repealed that special tax. The focused on actual education and rebuilt their accreditation and have a better school district.

More money is NOT the answer. The problem is that more money is the only solution to failed policies that Democrats understand.

What you're complaining about is competition. The government doesn't know how to compete. They based their school funding based on not ever having to compete. So when they stopped actually educating students, parents pulled their kids out and sent them to private schools. Now the public schools are crying that private schools are ripping them off. Screw that. The MOST important thing is a well educated populate. If public schools have failed us then it is time to dump the entire public education systems throughout this country. If public education wants to continue then they had must do 2 things. 1) dump all of that liberal horse crap they indoctrinate kids with. 2) restructure how they operate so that they actually compete for students.

Competition ALWAYS benefits the consumer, or in this case the student.

Evidently not. Education shouldn’t be just for those who can afford it.

Education shouldn’t be innovative. It should be standardized up to a point. If everyone isn’t afforded the opportunity to learn at the same level, then the great disparages between school districts will inevitably remain as they have in decades. When you were in school, when I was in school, when our parents were in school, etc.

One districts corruption shouldn’t punish all districts who are highly underfunded.

Not a single objective person who has actually been in public schools in the last 30 would accuse public schools of being well-funded, and certainly not overfunded.

You must not know any students or teachers who are in public schools.

It’s not greed. It’s quite evidently true.

"Evidently not. Education shouldn’t be just for those who can afford it."

You think most of those parents can afford it? They are doing it because they have no choice. Public education is worthless. That is why some places are giving parents vouchers so they can pay for private schools with the money that would have gone to public schools. That option should be available to ALL parents everywhere.

"Education shouldn’t be innovative."
Then liberals need to stop trying to "innovate" education with CRT, Common Core, the 1619 project and everything else that has killed public education.

"It should be standardized up to a point."
If a private school teaches more and accurate information they should not be forced to lower their standards to public school standards.

"One districts corruption shouldn’t punish all districts who are highly underfunded."
It doesn't. If a district cannot comply with the minimum standards and are churning out uneducated students then they lose their accreditation. It doesn't affect other districts. If affects all of the schools within that district.

"Not a single objective person who has actually been in public schools in the last 30 would accuse public schools of being well-funded, and certainly not overfunded."

Does that matter?

Once again money is not the solution. Stop thinking that if you throw more money at schools they will automatically fix all of the problems they have. The problem is liberal mis-education. It is worthless education. It does not prepare kids for the real world.

You cannot buy higher student success rates. You just need to inspire students and inspiration is free. Parents need to get involved and that is free also.

I think it is obscene to force taxpayers to pay for schools when they have no connection with the school. A lot of it comes from property tax. Property tax is the Marxist idea to infiltrate our society. If you don't pay your property tax the state kicks you off of YOUR land. It is not the states land. Marxism is all about taking away private property rights. Private property rights is the foundation upon which freedom is built on. If you don't own anything then someone else does and they decide how you will live your life.

"You must not know any students or teachers who are in public schools."
What does that have to do with anything? That makes no sense at all.

That is the fundamental problem with the modern Republican Party. They DO support socialism. They want to take funds reserved for public schools and public healthcare, and put it into privatized institutions. Institutions that exist privately primarily because whenever government touches it, it ruins it.

Private militias aren’t begging the government for handouts? Are they?

That’s why we don’t have enough money for education, healthcare, and other social programs because the modern Republican Party doesn’t know the difference between private and public systems.

Meanwhile, the Democrats, who are often rightly accused of being socialists, at least do! That public institutions are meant for the people to fall back on when they can’t afford private institutions.

“Stop thinking that if you throw more money at schools they will automatically fix all of the problems they have.”

Let’s apply that logic to military spending and see what happens.

"Let's apply that logic to military spending and see what happens"
I'm okay with that. However, I believe in a very strong military. The reason for that is because if we look strong then no one will mess with us. If we look week then foreign countries mess with us, or mess with other countries, like Ukraine and Taiwan.

"That is the fundamental problem with the modern Republican Party. They DO support socialism."
You'll get no argument from me. I have a lot of problems with the Republican party leadership and most of the politicians. A whole lot of them ARE socialists.

"They want to take funds reserved for public schools and public healthcare, and put it into privatized institutions. Institutions that exist privately primarily because whenever government touches it, it ruins it."
Here is a real logic problem for you. If everything the government touches is ruined, they why are you complaining that the government needs more money? Clearly they have destroyed public education but you want to throw more money at it.

The government is NOT taking funds reserved for school and giving it to private institutions. There are voucher programs in some states where the government is giving parents the choice of having their tax dollars go with their child to a public or private school. The money collected by the government is not owned by the government. The government did not earn it, they stole it from the taxpayer.

"Private militias aren’t begging the government for handouts? Are they?"
I don't know, you tell me. The only militias I know of who have received taxpayer dollars is Antifa. I don't know of any other militias, so you'll have to tell me, who in government is handing out cash to them.

"That’s why we don’t have enough money for education, healthcare, and other social programs because the modern Republican Party doesn’t know the difference between private and public systems."
I don't think YOU know the difference between public and private. Public is government run. Private is run by a citizen or citizens. It's just that simple. However, in England those labels are reversed.

Healthcare and other social programs are socialist. The more the government takes ownership away from the people the more socialist we become. Socialism is total government owner ship. Socialists even own your life.

"Meanwhile, the Democrats, who are often rightly accused of being socialists, at least do!"
I think everyone knows the difference except for you.

“If everything the government touches is ruined, they why are you complaining that the government needs more money?”

By stoping allocating funds to private and charter schools. Public schools won’t get better or worse.

“Public is government run. Private is run by a citizen or citizens. It's just that simple.”

Exactly, so why are Republicans advocating to allocate money from public to private schools?

You shouldn’t support the government funding private institutions if you don’t support socialism.

"By stoping allocating funds to private and charter schools. Public schools won’t get better or worse"

Okay, so taking away the parents right to educate their children the best way they can is the solution? You're for less freedom, not more. And that less freedom is for what? The betterment of the government??? The same government that ruins everything it touches.

Governments are only good for 3 things, killing, stealing enslaving and you want to give them more power and the people less power.

"Exactly, so why are Republicans advocating to allocate money from public to private schools?"

Because it is NOT the government's money. The government doesn't have own any money because they do not produce anything. They are a parasite. They steal all their money from you and me.

When a parent is given the choice to direct the money stolen from them to a private school rather than a public school it benefits the parents and their children. It does not make the private school become a public school. Private schools are already subject to a basic standard defined by the Department of Education, regardless if they receive stolen dollars from the government or not.

Even parents who home school are subject to those same basic standards.

And why on earth should everyone be forced to pay for an educational system that is more interested in exposing kids to transgendered people than math. They don't even teach about our founding fathers and the constitution anymore. They look at those great men as all just a bunch of rich white racists. That's not education, that indoctrination and it is a lie.

You are correct when you said everything the government touches they ruin. They have ruined public education and throwing more money at it isn't going to fix it. That's our money you want to throw around. Shouldn't we at least get something useful out of that money? Shouldn't there be some sort of return on our forced investment?

“That's our money you want to throw around. Shouldn't we at least get something useful out of that money?”

The funny thing is, this is an old segregationist argument. The fact remains, once government money goes from private education, to public, it ceases being private.

“Private schools are already subject to a basic standard defined by the Department of Education, regardless if they receive stolen dollars from the government or not.”

That is true! But if a private school can’t meet those standards, then they can’t provide a basic education to their students and are therefore a scam.

“When a parent is given the choice to direct the money stolen from them to a private school rather than a public school it benefits the parents and their children. It does not make the private school become a public school.”

But the parents do not have that choice. The government they elect does. Further, once government puts money into anything it becomes a socialist public institution. Period.

And the same problems that persist in public school will filter into private and charter schools.

“Because it is NOT the government's money.”

Correct, it’s ours. But once it falls into their hands, it comes under their scrutiny to bureaucratic restrictions and regulations.

If parents can’t afford the best education, that’s on them. Not taxpayers.

“Okay, so taking away the parents right to educate their children the best way they can is the solution?”

If the best way is to have the government fund it? Yes!

If parents are too poor and/or their children are too stupid, then they deserve public educations.

Keep government funding out of private and charter schools.

No handouts.

That’s how conservatism works.

"The funny thing is, this is an old segregationist argument.
What's even funnier is that is a complete and utter non sequitur. The concept of recompense is found EVERYWHERE. What you said is akin to saying old segregationists breath air so therefore if you breath air then you are treading on thin ice.

The Scottish economist Adam Smith said when the government takes from you then it should compensate you with and equal value in service. Smith predates segregation by about 200 years.

"The fact remains, once government money goes from private education, to public, it ceases being private."
If those schools can operate without government funding then they are not public. Even if they cannot operate without government funds then they are still privately owned and all decisions of how the school operates is determined by the owner(s). It is akin a government contractor at that point. A public enterprise is when everyone involved was employed by the government. There is no president or CEO of the agency. There may be a head of that agency but he is an employee not an owner.

"That is true! But if a private school can’t meet those standards, then they can’t provide a basic education to their students and are therefore a scam."
Yes that is true. So what happens when it is public education and it cannot meet the standards that they were once held to? That is even a bigger scam because everyone is forced to pay into public schools.

"Correct, it’s ours. But once it falls into their hands, it comes under their scrutiny to bureaucratic restrictions and regulations."
That is BS. The government has no motivation to excel. If they blow through their budget then they petition the higher ups for more money. They don't cut expenses to compensate, they just take more and more. AND it is the "bureaucratic restrictions and regulations" that are the current problem. They have lowered their standards and introduced garbage into the schools. They don't care that it is garbage, they just want to churn out students who worship the government.

"If parents can’t afford the best education, that’s on them. Not taxpayers."
It is but in the case of the school vouchers, it is reallocating the money that belongs to the parents but was confiscated by the government. It is not an additional tax. It is diverting the money from the failing schools to schools with a better success rating. The parents are getting a return on their investment.

"Of course, public schools are underfunded."

If you Google; how much money do schools get, and then multiply that number by 13 (K-12), you get around a quarter of a million dollars. Public Schools spend a quarter of a million dollars a student who will most likely end up an illiterate thug. Public Schools are an unmitigated disaster; there's no other way to spin it

Why would you multiply that number by 13? Why not two? That’s double and would still be too much to fund them.

All I’m advocating is to stop allocating funds to private schools. The funding is then adequate.

"Why would you multiply that number by 13? Why not two"

The average cost of public education is $15,621 per student per year. Multiply that by 13 because students attend 13 years of school; K-12 inclusive
It comes out to $203,073 per student.

''All I’m advocating is to stop allocating funds to private schools.''

Why shouldn't parents (who money it is; via taxes) be allowed to take it from a school that will fail their children and spend it instead on schooling that will help.

At some point, all that will be left in public schools will be the dregs; kids and families who don't care and those who are held back by some unspecified barrier. There will be no hope for them

which brings us back to why public schools are failing. The answer of course is that liberal policies have destroyed standards and abandoned completely, any meaningful consequences for failing to meet evened lowered standards coupled with eliminating consequences even for
deliberate misbehavior.

“Why shouldn't parents (who money it is; via taxes) be allowed to take it from a school that will fail their children and spend it instead on schooling that will help.”

Because then it would have the exact same issues as public schools.

“which brings us back to why public schools are failing.”

Then put your kid in private school if you can afford it.

Expecting the government to pay for a private education, only teaches your kid to be a socialist.

Wondering; have you ever taught in public school. If you had, you would know that liberals have destroyed public education in America. There is no more certain a cure than parents paying better attention to what left leaning administrators and school boards have meted out. Ask a teacher.
Let me guess; you get your facts from MSM.

Yes, I have. I’m not just a teacher but one who comes from a family of teachers dating back four generations. At least.

I know teachers who might agree with you to some extent, especially with administrations who try to pass the blame onto the teachers rather than the poorly run individual state public school systems but not a single teacher, liberal or otherwise, would actually advocate more government interference. In that instance all teachers are quite conservative about that.

Remember the phrase; “we’re the government and we’re here to help!” Parents are falling for that very mindset because government insists it must protect parents and students from teachers.

If anything, teachers need to be protected from parents. But not by the government.

Twenty years ago, if a student acted out in class, a parent would be notified and that student would be punished by teacher and parent. Now parents, who let their kids do whatever they want, are insisting teachers do the same.

Nor do many parents who must work more than two jobs HAVE the option to just pay attention to their students. If anything, parents being overworked might just be the disease to the overall symptom!

If parents want to teach their kids, homeschooling is the best option. And I highly recommend that for parents who want that. Or better yet, I recommend more parents become public school teachers or at least get involved in the PTA. Their awareness of what their kids are going through and what kind of people ARE trying to actually help their children.

I won’t say their aren’t any bad teachers but the amount of bad ones are not exclusively liberal nor are they particularly overpaid.

It is liberal policy to not punish deliberate misbehavior. I never suggested that teachers were the problem; liberals in positions of power are the problem. Which does mean liberal teachers are not a problem; there are a lot of them and they are a big part of the problem

Finally, allowing the money to follow the student does not increase government influence. Quite the opposite in fact

So you don’t know the difference between public and private education.

I’m absolutely fine with both. But government sinking money from public schools to private schools is literally self-defeating.

And yes, when government pays for any schooling; they absolutely have influence the more money they pay into it.

"So you don’t know the difference between public and private education"

Actually, I'm guessing that it is you who cannot comprehend, so there's that.

Well prove it and educate me.

What is the difference?

I really don't need to and I'm tired of this thread
have a nice day

Then you’re just trolling and likely a liberal partisan hack if you don’t care about facts!

Have a good Turkey day!

sorry, I don't feed trolls

Neither do I.

I come here for debate and conservation.

You don’t know that public means government funded and private means paid for by citizens.

While citizens inevitably pay for both from taxes and commerce, when the two become indistinguishable, then it becomes socialism.

And while you may be fiercely anti socialist, anti government, as you’ve been so by political propaganda indoctrination; you support government funding private institutions from public money. Which makes you a socialist.

I accuse you of being indoctrinated because you fail to see the fundamental difference and because perhaps some intelligent part of you realizes this; you couldn’t answer the simple question of the difference between private or public much in th same vein that Ketanji Brown Jackson couldn’t answer the simple question of what is the definition of a woman.

It’s an adult female human being. Boom! Easy!

And the difference between public and private? Public is government funded through taxpayer money, while private is directly funded by consumers.

The fact you couldn’t answer that is either because intentionally trolling or you really don’t understand the difference.

And because I think you’re more likely an intelligent human being, it is easier to assume you’re just a troll.

Thanks for playing.

"You don’t know that public means government funded and private means paid for by citizens."

You apparently don't know that public schools are in fact, paid for by taxpayers , and I assume, that Legislation is being passed that will enable parents to take the money that would normally go to the public school to another school of their choice

I foolishly, it turns out, read a little further in your comment and concluded TLTR.

you insult people, from your mother's basement, because it makes you feel good.
IDFT

If you read a little further, you’d know I said,

“Public is government funded through taxpayer money.”

So your reason to conclude that I don’t know public schools are paid for by taxpayers has no merit.

Meanwhile, you’re unwillingness to proceed in good faith by actually reading my comment gives merit to my conclusion you’re just trolling.

Troll harder.