Ancient Rome was also destroyed by unchecked hordes of invaders

So the migrant caravan trying to get to the border from Honduras my home country are families, fathers, mothers, children. Sure there are some uneducated, some criminals just like in this country. Diseased? Anyone sick or weak would not even attempt the 1,000-2,000 mile journey on foot. Do I endorse the invasion of our borders by foreign groups? No, but I think you might have a little more compassion for them if you had to live in their horrible country just like I have. Let's hope this new administration can fix the very, very broken immigration process or at the very least instead of turning a blind eye to the reasons why they're coming here to survive might reach out and assist in the betterment of their country.

Hi Kate, first let me say I think you are a great memer, and I admire you very much. I am sorry you had to endure bad conditions in your homeland. I can only imagine it was terrible, and I'm sure you're right that I would look at this issue differently if I had that experience.But I am glad that you were able to follow your dreams,make it to the USA, and become a top memer! I can also sense you have mixed-feelings about immigrants as well. The thing is we simply can't afford to take in all the world's poor. I'm sure that besides nations south of our border, all those suffering in China, India, and elsewhere wish they could live here too- but that's not possible. In fact, we cannot even support those already here. With the left's constant clamoring for more government handouts, that situation will only get worse. The answer of course, is to strive to build up their lands, try to bring their standards of living UP to ours- not bringing our standards DOWN to theirs, as the Socialists would have us do. By "diseased" I was referring to Covid -(which,if you believe the MSM narritive is the worst thing since the black death). However, now that they got rid of Orangemanbad, we will soon see that narrative reversed, and Covid will soon be relegated to the status of the common cold- mission accomplished. I hope we can have more discussions, as I like your style.

The US didn't overthrow the successful, stable Governments of China or India... But they DID install a NARCO-DICTATORSHIP in Honduras - complete with US-trained DEATHSQUADS. So you're comparing apples and oranges (that have no easy way to walk here)... Remember when Colin Powell and the GOP believed in "the potterybarn rule"?

Immigration reform is a complex issue. It's well above my pay-grade (and I suspect well above China-joe's as well). I only know I am against ILLEGAL immigration, and I think President Trump was on the right track with his merit-based policies. The Socialists will have our borders over-run. Not because they have any particular love for these people, but because they hope to use them to cling to power and further their sick globalist agenda. They are a disgrace.

Just to clear - I'm not a Biden supporter - or even a Democrat.

But these matters DO SEEM to be above your paygrade, or perhaps just beyond your level of educational attainment. There is 0 evidence of undocumented people voting in US elections - which is why KKKris Kobach's Commission to study the matter (under Trump) was quietly laid-down, without fanfare. Non-"US citizens" are barred from voting under both Federal and State laws. They aren't even allowed to register - without committing perjury... And even here in California - where ID isn't mandated in order to vote - they do check and look for birth records and corroboration, to establish eligibility, prior to registering anyone - or counting a 'provisional ballot'. As a state Citizen - native to the California Republic state (an actual ELECTOR - as opposed to a "Qualified Elector") - I even need to jump through extra hoops, and I shouldn't have to.

The history of US Immigration laws - is rooted directly in racism and xenophobia - beginning with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1880. "Legal" and lawful aren't synonymous. States are legal fictions - corporations - endowed legally only with such rights as their creators give them - or that their functionaries create from whole cloth. Much of the jurisprudence in these matters is nonsensical rationalizations for racism and authoritarianism. People are REAL... actual. And they have ACTUAL RIGHTS - which come from their creator (if we're to believe Declaration of Independence, and the Bible), and not from any State or group of States. Amongst those rights are freedom to travel, and migrate, and self-preservation under "the Law of NECCESITY". Their reasons for coming here are AS VALID - or LIKELY MORE VALID - than those which drove your ancestors to arrive on these shores. But like all selfish dicks - the Trumpies and their ilk believe in pulling up the ladder, with them - once they're done using it.

The double standards, hypocrisies, and injustices of our immigration laws and policies, are too numerous to list here... But they are well dramatized by the differences in how we treat Haitians arriving here, and how we treat Anti-Castro Cubans, and others leaving our targeted enemies. Luis Posada Carrilles was a CIA-backed Terrorist - a WANTED, CONVICTED CRIMINAL - who ADMITTED to Illegally crossing the border, under Cheney and W.... Where was the Republican outrage over that?!?!

Uuh, I was making a Led Zeppelin meme... LOL- Good stuff AnotherWorldView...Dude, I will let the thinly-veiled insults slide, as you are obviously an uncommonly knowledgeable individual. Whether you are a lawyer or a scholar, you seem like just the kind of person we need in positions of authority to help solve some of these difficult problems. I hope you are able use your vast intellect to do just that. We all must do whatever we can to move on through these trying times. I appreciate this conversation, and I would like to follow you, and maybe ask you some questions from time to time if that's acceptable to you.

Yeah I'm sorry if some of that was insulting... But I do get pretty frustrated at times with much of the rhetoric that emerges from the far-right... Mostly because I know the history and facts that it either ignores, or tries to erase ... Any way - if any of that came across as being a personal attack, then please accept my apologies. That wasn't my intent. And yes - I'm at your service. I'm not a Bar Attorney - but something of a lawyer, nonetheless... I'm one of those folks who knows not just the current statutes and jurisprudence - but the history and philosophy that led us here ... Which is why I believe that as a state Citizen - I have the right to travel and own property, and exist - without permission from the STATE. Which is part of what irritates me about "Voter ID" laws... You don't own the ID - IT OWNS YOU.

Anyways...well met. And it's nice to have the opportunity, to address some the things I saw in this meme/thread.

Outstanding AWV! When I am baffled by some of life's social or political complications (often), it would be nice to have someone else to bounce it off, a little advice, whatever... This is kinda what it looks like in my neck of the woods tonight. Best Regards.

That looks very beautiful, and peaceful.

And for the record - the Democratic party are NOT Socialists... If they were - we'd be starting the second Term, of Bernie Sanders' Presidency.

He was robbed - twice - and one of those was on Trump's 'watch'... So standing up for Electoral Integrity - after losing in the general election - looks less like principle - and more like self-interest.

Zelaya was a "Socialist" ruling lawfully in Honduras, when the Democrats staged a coup there, in 2009. Prior to 2009 - you didn't hear much about Honduran migrants... There were some - but those were mostly fleeing the DEATHSQUADS installed there under Reagan, in the 1980's. Nobody was fleeing "socialism" under Zelaya. Things were apparently getting better there, under him... Which is why the US felt compelled to intervene. As with Bolivia and Venezuela - compared to say Colombia - we care more about the DROP in poverty statistics, and free access to resources, more than we care about "Human Rights", or Democracy, or living standards.

NeoLiberal Democrats are CORPORATISTs, meaning "Corporate Socialists". That was Mussolini's alternative name for Fascism. So if you want to call Biden, Pelosi and Shumer "fascists" - I won't argue the point. But realize that their take on Fascism is just more subtle and less obvious than that of the Donald, or the NeoCons...

I can't speak for why the Democratic Party supports heavily restricted, but lawful immigration, and upholding of international laws on asylum and refugees... But I do it because of 'the Golden Rule' - "do unto others..."etc.

As for Birthright Citizenship - it was decided and made established Law - before the Civil War...in a case regarding the rights of inheritance, by an Irish girl - born here, while her parents were visiting. If you believe in fairness, and decency - changing the rules now, seems to be contra-indicated.

I'm gonna take that as a yes... Hahaha, one thing I love about imgflip is we are able to meet some very intelligent and interesting people here. We may not always agree, but we can learn a great many things.Alot of the folks on this site are amazing, with special intellectual strengths, abilities, and senses of humor. I would put you at or near the top of that scale... I say that because I had to use "textbook concentration" to read your replies, and still may not get it all- and I read ALOT LOL! Hope we can chat more in the future.

Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you. We should take care of our own homeless vets and those living in poverty and the help the illegals already here complete the process of naturalization rather than take on more. And yes the solution is not a wall nor open borders but assisting other countries in establishing humane democratic governments that can take care of their own people so they have no reason to flee.

Thanks Kate. You Rock! 🙂

Haha, good one. You too 😁

If I had to live in their country, I'd start a revolution. I wouldn't go to another country where I would be a drain on their resources.

The only problem is, there are a bunch of crime, corruption, and gangs there, and I'm pretty sure rebelling will give all those criminals and gangs a helluva time to do whatever they want, and if the people do win, they'll have to deal with all of those gangs and criminals again.

Exactly. It ain't America where you have freedom of speech and can pick up a BLM flag and start rioting and the media will feel bad and meme about you. Can't overrun the capital building and post it to tick tock. We have no idea how good we have it here.

Oh trust me it's not like people are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs doing nothing. They're just trying to survive. Feed your family or get killed by gangs and police who side with the government? Or risk the lives of everyone you love to walk 2k miles to be stopped by yet another equally poor and courrupt country like Guatemala. The president doesn't care he just wants money and power. Nevermind his country is in dire distress and citizens are killing eachother off. If you stay you starve or get killed if you leave you will probably get killed but maybe you'll get arrested on the American side and be safer and have more meals than where you came from. Or maybe you'll be some of the few lucky ones to get citizenship (which requires thousands of dollars and numerous forms and years of time, but it's worth it)

THEY HAD a stable and successful Government under Zelaya - the US overthrew it in a Coup...and installed a "NARCO-DICTATORSHIP", backed by DEATHSQUADS - trained by the US' School of the Assassins (now known as the "Western Hemispheric Institute for Security Cooperation" - WHINSEC) at Ft. Benning Georgia. Soawatch.org

Why don't you do us all a favor - and go try and help "bring democracy" to the Hondurans, the way Bolton Abrams tried so hard to do for Venezuela... I'm sure the Honduran people would be impressed by your bravado... The Honduran DEATHSQUADS... probably not so much.

It should be noted that the Coup there occurred in 2009 - under Obama, Biden and Clinton... But it should also be noted that rather than doing anything to repair the mess created by his predecessors - Trump merely decided to continue Supporting the FASCIST NARCO-DICTATORSHIP, while using the refugees fleeing that country to gin-up the fears, racism, and xenophobia of his ignorant AF base, of neo-nativists and neo-nazis.

And for the record - lawful asylum-seekers, immigrants, and undocumented workers - are a NET BENEFIT to the US Economy - and always have been. Undocumented workers PAY-IN to the IRS, Social Security, and Medicare - and largely leave the benefits they've paid for unclaimed. And under Trump - EVEN MORE RULES against them receiving any kinds of benefits, were erected (by executive orders) - so your point is even more incorrect, than it was previously. People who are LEGAL immigrants, awaiting their citizenship, are now afraid to claim any benefits to which they would otherwise be entitled ... Because of Trump.

You are wrong on so many levels. Illegal immigrants don't pay any taxes except for sales tax on goods they buy. If they are gainfully employed, its under the table. Its not above board and on the tax rolls.
Fake news about legal immigrants. That's squarely on the mainstream news. Trump always said he supports legal immigration and the process.

Your mistake was listening to Trump - and not doing the slightest bit of research, to confirm or deny his dishonest statements.

Additionally - you're wrong about how undocumented workers are paid. Many use the Social Security numbers of dead people... If they're paid under the table - it's usually for casual day labor - the same way that people who are born here are. But for any real or legitimate business, with a consistent job - they could NEVER AFFORD to fail to collect IRS and "Payroll Taxes" from any employee. That's because they couldn't deduct those wages from their profits - and would therefore be carrying an extra burden in double-taxed costs. It just doesn't work that way.

Aside from a few Reichwing- Anti-Immigration think tanks, nobody familiar with this topic argues with the fact that (undocumented)Immigrants are a net plus to the Economy, and the Social Security Trust Fund, etc..

As for Sales Taxes - those are what's known as REGRESSIVE TAXES...which hit poor people harder than the rich. You shouldn't speak dismissively about those. Undocumented workers tend to be amongst the poorest Americans. They pay a DISPROPORTIONATE share of their limited incomes in taxes of that sort. And those taxes are relied upon by State and local Governments. So you're clearly doing your best ignore the positive contributions of the undocumented - and imagining non-existent costs being generated by them. Which fits a pattern on the racist/xenophobic far-right - that Trump capitalized upon, for his now thankfully finished 15 minutes of fame.

Democrats just want them here for votes. Can you imagine the size of the wall we would have long had on the border if illegals were a potent Republican-voting bloc? Probably big enough to make the Berlin Wall look like a picket fence.

WTF is a traditional American family anymore, anyway? The divorce rate in the US is 60%. Families are of mixed ethnicities. When and for how long did this "traditional American family" exist?

Ya I get it, you Leftys must now transition from "Orangemanbad" to "Whitemanbad" - By traditional family I mean one headed by two parents- yes, a Mother and a Father, neither of whom have any doubts about what gender they are. Very sorry if that offends any of you fragile Snowflakes and your woke sensibilities... Older users will fondly remember the Davey & Goliath TV show. It was a 1970s evangelical Sunday morning show that taught kids Christian values like forgiveness and helping others- ideals all but lost to today's liberally-brainwashed & entitled Brats. I admit using that image was a bit over the top, but it served it's purpose. You do make a good point about the high divorce rate. I have always believed that is one of single greatest contributors to the downfall of our Society, and it's ever-growing spread is directly tied to the Cancer of Liberalism.

What is white priveledge....... let’s think....... a black 15 year old boy was accused of stealing and empty backpack and went to rikers for three years. There was absolutely no evidence that he did it but he was sent to one of the worst ADULT prisons in the US. He was 15 not an adult. Now, one of the insurrectionists that stormed the capitol, stole Nancy pelosi’s laptop and was caught trying to sell it to the Russians, no cap lol. She was also 15 and white. The court ruled she was to young to be tried and went home scot free. White priveledge.... hmmmmm

Pretty sure that girl was a Soros-paid BLM Shill.

Wow, anything to put the blame somewhere else