When someone shows me how they plan to disarm the criminals, maybe I'll listen to gun control arguments.

how is it there is no discussion about that?
shouldn't that be the FIRST thing we should be talking about?

seems to me we are skipping a few chapters of reasonable discussion.

I don't think it fits the design of the narrative. If there's a goal, this conversation deflects, and is therefore an obstacle.

If guns are the problem, you'd expect to see more shootings. Guns are a part of the equation, but by themselves are only a necessary but not sufficient factor to achieve the outcome.

No one wants to consider the other factors. The right is fine with it being about individual mental illness, but no one on either side has been willing to talk about (much less act) the underlying issues which are likely a much largely part of the equation. Nobody eants to consider that our society is sick. I believe that one of those is the unrestricted access to violent content by brains that aren't fully developed. No, video games and movies do not cause gun violence, but they are correlated with it. And don't give me that " we watched violent cartoons and we turned out okay" nonsense. Watching the coyote get blown up while trying to attack the roadrunner is not the same scale as first person shooter games with high def brain splatter.

We don't have to ban violent content. I don't want to start policing all content. We don't even need new laws. For a start, how about actually enforcing MPAA guidelines across the board? How about enforcing gun laws already on the books instead of null prossing a charge as part of a plea deal? Maybe eliminate the Wild West nature of the internet (if possible - at least try).

But oh shit, that would require *us* to change! That would mean that we would have to be more responsible in general, not just with our guns. It's easier to blame guns.

I swear,you,pasc and doctorstrangelove are probably my fave conservatives on this site.

what you are suggesting would at least be a start.
it is a tad too "controlly" for my tastes,but at least we can have a conversation,and we both recognize that our society is sick.

and that is the first step.
acknowledging is the first step in the long process of rectifying the disease.
but all we get in all circles of media is either "everything is fine,everything is awesome" or this twisted and grotesque bickering.(see:imgflip comment section).

it is obvious to anyone paying attention.
the opiate crisis,gambling,homelessness,food deserts and malnutrition,suicide rates and self-harming.etc etc
the list is long.

I see where you are going with your suggestions,and I read a book awhile ago by social psychologist Jonathon haidt called "the coddling of the American mind" and it touches on some of what you are talking about,but one of his conclusions is that social media has been,by far,the biggest problem in our social and political life.

check him out:https://www.thecoddling.com/about-jonathan-haidt

respect my friend for recognizing that the problem exists in the first place.
too many buy into the "everything is awesome" rhetoric,and are the same people blindsided by horrific and bloody incidents occur.they are wholly unprepared for such tragedies.

this is akin,my opinion of course,after 9/11 and almost the entire nation was dumbfounded by not only the violence and viciousness,but why anybody would have attacked us in the first place.
remember "why do they hate us mr president"?
bush "they hate is for our freedoms".

and people believed him!
which is just...bonkers...

Thank you, and thanks for the link!

Try having a discussion with KylieClown. Err KylieFan_89. He refuses to listen. He is the typical liberal who believes if guns are banned murderers will stop murdering people.
He wants every gun banned, Period.

They'll give up every right they have to virtue signal on line. Disgusting.

As sensible as it would be to control guns on the basis of “mental health issues” alone — and let the good guys” keep theirs — it’s basically impossible to predict how people are going to use their guns until they do.

If someone is being outwardly deranged, yes. But a whole lot of gun deaths per year are caused by seemingly normal people.

Then there’s the accidents and the suicides which research suggests is a surprisingly impulsive decision that owning a gun makes it easy to act on.

The bottom line is guns facilitate killing — despite the security blanket feeing they offer to some folks, statistically, owning them is a hazard to yourself and others.

Australia was a wide-open, frontier country with a high rate of gun ownership and gun culture. Then the government did their buyback program — now, it has some of the lowest gun death rates in the developed world.

Or we could even do whatever Canada has done: another large, frontier country with a similar history, culture, and racial make-up as ourselves, that has somehow achieved gun death rates than are about 6x lower than us from what I’ve read.

I don’t care how we get there, but we have to do something. The number of Americans who die per year from guns is insane for a country as rich and otherwise well-governed as we are.

Australia didn't have over 350 million guns in their homes and streets.

I hope you never get home invaded but if you do, you'll realize calling and waiting for the police doesn't help you in that moment.

Yeah... no other country on earth has 350 million guns in their homes and streets or even close to that. That’s kind of the problem.

Our neighborhood has police patrolling all the time. If I call the police I am confident they are gonna be here in 2-3 mins or less. We have a dog who barks his head off at the first bump of anything in the night. If I hear someone breaking in, then I’m going up to the roof deck on the 3rd floor and calling. They won’t even hear me make the call, and there is no way on earth they will find me faster than the cops can get here.

Not everyone’s home is as well-protected as that, but home invasions are pretty damn rare and introducing a gun into that kind of a situation doesn’t necessarily make you safer.

On a daily basis, I am afraid of so many more things in life than a home invasion

I really think that's the reason other countries policies wouldn't work. They'll always be a black market and only cops and criminals will be armed. It's a tough debate for both sides.

That was one example. But I suppose in the case of carjacking, some people would rather give up their car than be armed and resist.

It's probably closer to 500 million, and if guns were the problem they would have killed us all by now. If you drop all the murders in Democrat 'gun free' cities there would be no alleged gun problem.

No other country has as many liberals as America. That's the real problem. You libs refuse to listen.
You always blame the gun, Not the shooter. When the shooter is a liberal you libs ignore the shooting.
That's a fact.

How are you going to call the police if your dead?
Snausages takes care of your poodle. Does your poodle sh!t in the house?
Opening the door to let it out can get you killed. True story.

I'll bet you $1000 when your poodle barks you ignore it. If he barks at every bump like you say, The odds are you ignore it, Or yell at it to be quiet. Fact.

Your imaginary fortress of solitude is f^ckin hilarious. I'm shocked you don't have a moat filled with Alligators.
I guess you never leave your fortress of solitude to go shopping,
If you do go shopping do you drive a potato powered Pruis, Or a fossil fuel guzzling Tank that causes climate change.
I'm guessing the Tank, It matches your fortress

On a daily basis you're terrified of global warming err climate change. You could prevent it if you just paid your carbon tax.

You really crack me up KylieClown.

Suicides, which make up 2/3 (roughly) of the gun deaths in the US, are not even a part of the conversation. The big push uses the remaining 1/3 (roughly), which is homicides, to justify taking guns from some people. Mental health reform would do more for the numbers than banning the use of guns by law abiding people, which are not even in this matrix. So, as the meme suggests, someone needs to address how they're going to take guns from killers before they can be taken seriously. I carry a gun, because cops are too heavy, in short supply, and 10 minutes away at any given time. They don't prevent murder; they capture murderers...after the deed is done. I value my freedom to defend myself and my family, and I'm sure the poor in this country, which live in areas where they are more likely than myself to find themselves in a life or death situation, value it even more.

Gun crime in Australia was dropping before the confiscation, and has dropped at a lower rate since. Canada doesn't share a culture with us- more like Britain, which has never had our culture of independence. Also, neither has ever viewed self defense as a reason for weapon ownership.