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Abortion is not murder.

Abortion is not murder. | IMMA HELP YOU GUYS OUT FOR A SECOND; THIS IS A BABY. THIS IS A GROUP OF CELLS CALLED A "FETUS" THAT BEARS PASSING RESEMBLANCE TO A BABY, AND MAY IN FACT ONE DAY BECOME A BABY, BUT IS NOT A BABY YET; SEE THAT CORD? IT'S ATTACHED TO THE MOTHER, 100% DEPENDENT ON HER BODY FOR CONTINUED EXISTENCE, AND WILL BE FOR SEVERAL MORE MONTHS UNTIL IT REACHES A STAGE CALLED "VIABILITY."; AT LEAST UNTIL THE POINT OF VIABILITY... IT'S STILL HER BODY, STILL HER CHOICE. | image tagged in baby smiling,fetus umbilical cord,abortion,abortion is murder,pro-choice,pro-life | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
13,963 views 4 upvotes Made by KylieFan_89 5 years ago in politics
48 Comments
7 ups, 5y,
1 reply
made w/ Imgflip meme maker
1 up, 5y
As with any process that is incremental, it is not that easy to arbitrarily set a cut off point. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/babies-learn-recognize-words-womb
6 ups, 5y,
1 reply
You are not the first to say these things, and you won't be the last. And just like the rest that have said these things, you are arrogant in assuming the rest of the world doesn't know anything unless you enlighten them.
Imma help you out for a second. ABORTION IS MURDER. "FETUS" IS AN EARLY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT FOR A BABY, NOT JUST A CLUMP OF CELLS.
4 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Caps lock = arrogant? OK, someone needs to consult a dictionary. An old one, printed on paper.
The women didn't perform the abortions on themselves, therefore they are not guilty of murder but of hiring someone to do the job.
Many women who had abortions were underage children at the time (forced to have the abortion by the molester-father). Who's culpable in that situation?
3 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Caps lock is also used for emphasis.
"You don't get to take away right and freedoms from all people..." but you're okay with a baby's rights and freedoms being taken away before they leave the womb. I guess the baby isn't a person because it can't defend itself?
2 ups, 5y,
2 replies
"So, the bottom-line reason for why a fetus isn't a person is that... it simply isn't."

I'm just gonna let that stew...
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
That portion of my comment is a bare assertion, yes. But it's at least the equivalent of anything you've presented.

While that's stewing would be a good time for you to collect arguments that amount to more than your own bare assertions of "fetus = baby = person."
1 up, 5y
Just curious--why are you, an admitted southern white boy, so concerned about abortion? Did you knock someone up and are now seeking approval to kill your spawn?
1 up, 5y
I disagree that I'm "so concerned about abortion." I frequently post memes about both sex and politics, and it is therefore natural that I'd do a meme on this topic eventually. It's the first abortion-focused meme I've created out of hundreds. It's not like I'm only posting about this topic all day every day.

Not sure what being "an admitted southern white boy" has to do with anything. All of us live in a society and get to have opinions. There are millions of people like you in America trying to take reproductive freedoms away from women, and I get to have a say about that even if I don't share female genitalia.

My wife's not pregnant, but if she were then we'd have the freedom to decide together whether to become parents.
4 ups, 5y,
1 reply
The unique DNA of the human fetus would disagree. She has many choices. One should not be murder.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
“Unique DNA” of a fetus doesn’t equate to consciousness or an opinion, let alone viability.

She has many choices including a safe abortion in every jurisdiction in which it is legal.
5 ups, 5y,
1 reply
Unique DNA equates to a human being. It's DNA is unique to only the human species. A person in a coma, a mentally ill person, a person unconscious for surgery all would fall into your criteria of lack of Consciousness, opinion and in some cases, viability. She has the choice right now of murdering her offspring. Let's hope that changes as people evolve to be more humane.
6 ups, 5y,
1 reply
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
Are you so certain your own mother didn't have an abortion before having you? My mom only revealed that to me a few years ago when I was in my mid-20s.
4 ups, 5y,
1 reply
It might not be a good idea to air your Mom's dirty laundry on IMGFLIP.
How did your mother feel about the abortion after all these years?
Your Mom's abortion could have been you. Let that sink in.
4 ups, 5y,
2 replies
If there's no shame in it, why did your mother wait until you were in your mid-20s to tell you about it? Didn't she want to "shout" her abortion?
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
More precisely: There should be no shame in it. But because of people like you, there is.
4 ups, 5y
Translation: "There should be no shame in murdering babies in the womb. But, because of people like you reminding others of the shame of this heinous act, there is."
0 ups, 5y
If you want to provide arguments that those other things aren't whatever else they are commonly thought to be and therefore aren't shameful, go ahead. But for my own proposition of "abortion isn't murder and isn't shameful": I've provided plenty.

It's not empty rhetoric anymore, and it's not persuasive to compare it to a bunch of irrelevant propositions that have no support or grounding here.
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
In fact the definition of "person" is not deemed absolute. The Fetus is a human being. A very immature one, but a human being nevertheless. Killing a human being is murder. Some of the criteria for defining a person according to some is not met by those in coma, those unconscious and some of those mentally ill. Relying on others to maintain life, for example. Consciousness and the ability to reason as another. When people have been lied to, and they have an abortion thinking it is just a blob of cells, I do not feel they should be held accountable. They have been told by countless authority that is was not a human being and not valued as worthy of preserving.. And, legally it is not murder at this time. So, only those doing the lying and those medical professionals who know better is guilty of actual murder in my eyes. The laws will change as people grow more aware. We have much better technology now than we used to. We can scan a fetus in 3D and see it's magnificent formation into a very tiny human being in mere weeks complete with a beating heart. Too bad the fetus can not talk. He would say, "A person is a person no matter how small". Abortion is also genocide of the poor and minorities who are more likely to abort. When there are countless methods to prevent unwanted pregnancies and there are countless numbers of loving homes available to adopt, to hold on to "My body, My Choice" appears very selfish!
1 up, 5y
Indeed: the fetus cannot talk, and even if it could, it would have no memories or opinions which it could express. It's just not a person. It's never lived a life.

There's a very easy answer to this. We all agree Mom is a person. Why don't we ask Mom what she thinks instead of speculating about the clump of cells gestating inside of her.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
0 ups, 5y
I believe they're all factors that are helpful to think about in reaching the conclusions that I do.

But you're right, let's stop circling. Bottom-line, for me, personhood is defined by one factor alone: Being born.

Why is being born critical? You get a birth-certificate and an SSN. You automatically become a citizen in jurisdictions like the U.S. with birthright citizenship. You get an officially-recognized name, even if your parents have decided one in advance. And you are finally well and truly free of the umbilical cord and outside your mother's womb.

However, I am sympathetic to the viewpoint that abortion should be banned after fetuses become viable. That is what I would consider to be the true gray area, and while I might not fully agree I do not lobby nearly as hard against laws regulating that subject.
[deleted]
3 ups, 5y,
1 reply
It's too bad you believe that. Biology says different, but you go ahead and continue condoning legalized murder.
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
Even if I believed that abortion were "murder," which I don't: Throwing millions of women who have undergone an abortion procedure in prison for life would prove far too costly and socially disruptive. And believe it or not, that group of women likely includes many of the women in your life whom you love and cherish.
[deleted]
2 ups, 5y
That isn't even an issue. Of you're that hard up to kill your child, close your legs, put your dick back in your pants and don't have unwanted children. 99% of abortions are for birth control reasons, purely emotional, not for rape and health reasons. If you don't believe me, look up the stats from Plan Parenthood.
[deleted]
2 ups, 5y,
1 reply
1 up, 5y,
2 replies
You're chipping away at some of the analogies I drew, which I admitted upfront were imperfect, because nothing else in life is truly analogous to a fetus in the womb.

But: you've still provided no compelling justification to regard a fetus as if it were a person with all the full legal rights that would entail. Which include, as I've said many times, and will say it again: Labeling millions of law-abiding women (many of them mothers themselves) as murderers.

As for word games: you are in fact the one playing them with loaded phrases like "killing the unborn." You can't kill something that hasn't ever lived, and "the unborn" is a sneaky way of defining something as a person which isn't.

Fetuses have no biological functions independent of their attachment to the mother's womb. At least until the point of viability, a fetus is best thought of as an extension of her own body, and if she doesn't want it there, then she can have a safe medical procedure to remove it.

No, I will not be more respected for adopting your ridiculous framing of these issues.
[deleted]
2 ups, 5y,
3 replies
1 up, 5y
Actually cows are the pinnacle. Perhaps the Hindus are on to something after all.

But still, regardless of your heirarchical distraction (which is the very argument pro abortionists use - the "It's lesser than, so snip snip..."), life is life and the purpose of killing it is killing it, so yeah.
0 ups, 5y
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
Again with more bare assertions and doubling-down on that phrase "killing the unborn," when I've provided a laundry list of reasons to doubt that a fetus is a person at all.

Even if I accepted your debatable premise that "Life begins at conception": calling something "a life" does not resolve the question of rights. The mother has important rights in this situation, too. Even if you believe that an egg is meaningfully and independently "alive" from the very moment sperm hits it: the rights of a combination of sperm and egg that is only a week old must yield in relation to a fully-fledged human being who has walked the earth for anywhere from 15 to 50 years.

What you call "ethical gymnastics" is just me using my brain.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
0 ups, 5y,
1 reply
"I'm ok with killing the unborn. I fully recognize that they are people, but I don't believe they have the same rights to exist as fully developed people."

No, it's not a stronger argument at all, and is not an admission that I'm required to make. As I've said, in my view, personhood vests at the moment of birth.

But yes, to go along with your argument for a bit: even if you through sheer logic convinced me that a 5-minute old fertilized egg is an actual person with rights -- I would say that person has fewer rights than a person who has passed the several milestones of gestation, viability, and birth. I wouldn't say it's a "right to exist," per se. I would say it's a "claim to life vis-a-vis the mother's own wishes." I would say that claim gets stronger and stronger the longer the fetus is in the womb, that it possibly overcomes the mother's wishes at the stage of viability and that it certainly does at the moment of birth.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y,
1 reply
0 ups, 5y
I wouldn't that rights are conditional and no one has them. I'd say that everyone has them, but that they're qualified. A few examples:

1. Right to Free Speech = Qualified by limits on aggressive and illegal speech (conspiracy, treason, child pornography, etc.).
2. Right to Bear Arms = Pretty much everyone would agree that you cannot own a tank, or an attack helicopter, or a nuclear submarine as a private citizen. There is vigorous debate on other types of firearms.

And, 3. "Right to Life" in the abortion context (I'll posit it, though it isn't explicit in the U.S. Constitution) = Qualified by the mother's right to decide whether to host you in her womb, while you're still attached to her.
0 ups, 2y
“Labeling millions of law-abiding women (many of them mothers themselves) as murderers.”

In my opinion, they are murderers if they kill their baby.
0 ups, 2y,
1 reply
Abortion is murder, even if murderous, satanic monsters say it's not. This is a baby, and you have to be a monster to kill it.
0 ups, 2y
Aren't eagle eggs protected from being destroyed? How is this any different?
0 ups, 2y
Sure, and i'm a talking train.
Created with the Imgflip Meme Generator
EXTRA IMAGES ADDED: 1
  • Baby smiling
  • Fetus umbilical cord
  • IMAGE DESCRIPTION:
    IMMA HELP YOU GUYS OUT FOR A SECOND; THIS IS A BABY. THIS IS A GROUP OF CELLS CALLED A "FETUS" THAT BEARS PASSING RESEMBLANCE TO A BABY, AND MAY IN FACT ONE DAY BECOME A BABY, BUT IS NOT A BABY YET; SEE THAT CORD? IT'S ATTACHED TO THE MOTHER, 100% DEPENDENT ON HER BODY FOR CONTINUED EXISTENCE, AND WILL BE FOR SEVERAL MORE MONTHS UNTIL IT REACHES A STAGE CALLED "VIABILITY."; AT LEAST UNTIL THE POINT OF VIABILITY... IT'S STILL HER BODY, STILL HER CHOICE.