Bernie working the socialist platform

Everyone is all for taxing the rich, until they find out that Bernie and Liz consider them to be rich.

Its funny how millionaires are pushing for socialism.

The money for their pipe dreams cannot possibly come from just the million and billionaires.

2fr05x.gif (click to show) You have a funny meme

Great job!

3c9tbw.gif (click to show) I appreciates you

It’s not your wallet.

Whatever it is, it’s Bernie’s now

Excellent sarcasm, Dr.!

Its everyone's wallets. I stand corrected.

No need to stand corrected. The difference in terms of the message the meme is conveying, is negligible, if at all. Excellent meme!

Considering they've both admitted they'll have to raise taxes on the middle class to pass the programs they want.. yes, yes it is.

It would Lower costs. At least then you’ll have actual healthcare with an overall lower cost.
Just think:if your employer costs go down from not having to pay all or some of your health benefits they can pass that savings to the employees in the form of pay raises!

I'm wouldn't hold my breath for the easing of corporate tax burdens to raise wages, nor would I hold it for the easing of corporate paid healthcare costs to raise wages.. Seems the most likely outcome is them pocketing that difference.

You mean our wealthy corporate overlords DON’T have our best interests in mind? Paint me shocked.

Why should they be forced to pay for someone’s healthcare though? Seems like an odd connection: employment=healthcare. Take that burden away from them specifically and just tax them as well. Lower their costs overall too. Higher taxes can still mean lower overall costs.

People should just have to pay for it themselves. Or....have real healthcare provided by the government as part of the social contract to provide for a healthy populace. This is what literally every civilized, modern country does and they have better health outcomes than us.

... like Cuba and Venezuela? Really! You do not want government to take care of your healthcare. Take if from me, I am a veteran, I get free medical from the VA, and I do not use it. They have garbage service and garbage doctors all they do is prescribe naproxen. I go to the doctors from my work insurance provided because is 1000% better and I do not even mind paying for it after my nightmares with the VA. You pay for what you get. Stop drinking from that koolaid, you spoiled brat. I said spoiled because you live in a country that gives you all you need you just have to reach out and grab it, but instead you want for it to be handed instead of reaching out to.

No- like every other modern western country like England, Canada, Austrailia, Europe...

I know Europe isn't a country but basically every country in Europe.

Which countries have "better healthcare outcomes" than the US?

If you're going to mention the Nordic model, don't waste our time. if you need to see a specialist in a Scandinavian country, their model guarantees it will happen within 90 days. Do you think that guarantee is always met? I have the hated Kaiser, and when I need to see a specialist, it's sometimes the same day, but certainly no more than a week (five business days.) Overall their healthcare is quite good (for them) but when it comes down to decisions about what type of healthcare is provided, it's not up to the doctor and the patient, but instead the govt. Can you imagine our govt dictating the health care that we receive? Do you really think our govt, any more than "our wealthy corporate overlords" would have our best interests at heart? Be honest now!

You want to talk taxes? With their model, the employer is taxed 60% of the annual salary the employee is paid. The employee is taxed around 50%. So for an employee making $50K (using nice round numbers here), the govt gets $55k in taxes. I actually wouldn't mind paying more in taxes if I had any confidence that our govt would spend the money wisely. In Scandinavia, they have sane people running their govts, unlike here, where politicians just want to get money and throw it at problems. There, they spend their citizens' money wisely.

I'm certainly not saying the Nordic model is bad. It works great for them, but it was instituted back in the 1920's I believe, when their population was a little over 2 million. There are more people in the SF bay area than there are in Norway today. So we're talking about very small countries compared to the US. So, imagine trying to scale that up to a country the size of the US, and I think you'll have problems.

First of all, health care workers would have to become govt employees, with the guaranteed problems that come with that, such as a cap on incomes. If you're a doctor currently making a very comfortable $200K, would you be pleased to be told by the govt that your salary is now $90K? (or less!) I don't think caps on income will go over very well in the US, even if we can convince those in the middle and lower classes that certain professions are overpaid. It's simply unAmerican to inhibit excellence and ambition in that manner.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

https://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

We are #37 according to those lists. Not that you’ll believe it I know. I’m sure science and data and truth can’t be trusted due to liberal bias.

It's not a matter of whether or not I believe it. I'm naturally skeptical, so I don't believe anything someone presents to me as proof, without checking it out. Even before looking at those, I would question the methodology used to determine their results. Does even one of the articles you've referenced talk about the innovation resulting from the US health care system? Probably not.

I certainly hope you don't believe something someone presents to you as proof of a position, just because you tend to agree with the concept of the position, or because you generally agree with the person telling you the information. Please tell me you're smarter than that!!!

Plus, I think you missed a major point I was trying to make, which is it wouldn't be so easy to implement health care for all, or a socialist-style health care system in this country, as other smaller, or less free countries have done. Are you just blindly avoiding the issue of cost? Even Bernie and Liz have admitted their plans would cost trillions upon trillions of $$.

Let's take Obama-care as an example of the type of health care you propose. The last time I checked was right around the time president Obama left office. At that time, my health care costs had gone up 91% since the implementation of Obama-care. But wait, I was told my health care costs would go down, wasn't I? So what happened? I certainly don't mind paying a little more, so those without access to health care, or can't afford it, are able to get it. I'm not your main opposition here, even though I disagree with what I perceive to be your specific plan.

Please consider that if Obama-care couldn't deliver on the promise of lower health care costs, how could it when implemented on a grander scale? Be real, it could bankrupt us, and it definitely would wipe out entire industries (such as our current health care) and likely send our economy into chaos. If I'm not mistaken, that's what people said would happen when Trump was elected, so we shouldn't vote for him, right? So it must be a good reason to not want the type of health care system you're suggesting we adopt.

Why not focus on a solution that helps those without health care? Isn't that number when compared to those with health care, small enough that a sensible solution wouldn't cost anywhere near what socialized medicine for all would cost?

Plus I hate to break it to you (note the sarcasm...) but most people just don't want your style of health care.

It’s the World Health Organization study- all data and methodologies are explained.

Also it would be the same healthcare just different payment.

The cost of nothing would be lowered if it comes from the pockets of others. Anyways, government healthcare lacks market prices, so you'd have to artificially lower the cost by stimulating things like costs of service by forcing doctors to work for less. This will make most of them just stay in the private sector. No actual cost are going down inside a government sector.

The costs of everything has gone up the last 40 years and the pockets of regular folks have stayed as empty (or more so) as they always have been.

No. Just no. The average income of people in the US has been increasing since the 1800s due to free markets bringing the price of things down as it brought the quality up by having people sell their product at lower prices while selling at higher rates. Meanwhile, that helped boost the worth of our dollar, so the money left in our pockets was worth more than before. This is the reason why things like cars, television, internet service, microwaves and other things that were once seen as luxuries for the rich are now commonplace.

No. Just no.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

Maybe we could afford healthcare if we do not spend so many billions in illegal immigrants. I been to Spain and I know for a fact they do not spend the money and care we offer them. You want to see racism? Go to a bar in Spain and listen to the many racist words they call the arabs trying to sell flowers to make a living.

We are not in Spain. And we don’t spend a whole lot on illegals relative to what they bring in.

https://www.apnews.com/1e597a4896884da08bef0a8f8134c6be

In any event- jail the employers of illegals. That would slow or stop them from coming here. It’s the wealthy that want to make more money rather than employ AMERICANS for real wages.

Excuse me. That is an anti trump article not based on facts. Here is a better article from someone who actually sited the resourceshttps://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/ also note the year of this article, 2009. Who was the president then? Certainly was not Trump. Now, it does come to a cost and is about 12 to 20 Billion and is hard to measure since a lot of it is not documented or side effects. But here is the thing, illegals they do not have rights for competitive pay, minimum wage, benefits or representation. Pretty much being pro illegal is the same as pro slavery, making rich those who contract them and hurting the middle class, there is another cost that is just not financial. It aided to the inflation of rent in many places and studies do not show that, but can be felt in states like California. You are brain washed and nothing we tell you here will change your mind. Have a wonderful day.

Whatever the cost is...arrest those hiring them. That will help stop them from coming here.

I'm talking about the worth of the money in the people's pockets. If the purchasing power wasn't budging why are so many things that were once owned only by the rich now common in the lives of poor and middle income people? You also need to take into account how the prices of goods and services are being brought down. With something like that it can't be measured without looking at the cost of goods and services since they were put into the market. Three out of four Americans will join the top 20% at some point in their life for at least a while, so how can wages remain stagnant? npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while

Prices haven’t gone down. Can you afford a rolls Royce now better than 10 or 20 years ago? Wages remain stagnant because people also fall down the ladder and well...wages over all haven’t moved in 40 years. While worker production and corporate profits have gone up up up. Had they (wages) actually kept up with inflation, minimum wage would be around $20/hr.

Any product that has high supply and demand will be sold at lower prices. This has happened with every service or good in the US that's been around for over ten years or so. Any wages in the US have risen either for people rising to new class or having the money in their pocket be made worth more. Minimum wages stay ALMOST the same because low-skilled labor isn't affected by inflation or time.

Gasoline is at its highest supply and demand in decades. And it’s price is higher than ever.

Gasoline is constantly being meddled with by the government, so it's not fair to compare it to private business.

If by "actual healthcare" you mean "crap healthcare" then sure

Yup he just ignored everything I said with my example.