Only on deer.

Deer lives matter :P

THANX YOU RAISED THIS IMPORTANT QUESTIONS! I AM JUST A 100% AGREE!!

Yes it saves lives

That might be true in some cases, but it could also be possible to achieve the same results in different ways that don't involve testing on live subjects. The majority of drugs that have have been used to effectively treat animals have failed on humans.

Exactly.

I think it is for medical research and diagnosis purposes. But I also strongly feel such testing should be done as humanely as possible, and with a limitation of one test (procedure) per animal. For crap like testing to see how an animal reacts when a stick of eyeliner is poked in its eye or gee, let's see what happens if we burn this pig alive, thsee scenarios are just excusions in sadism and don't benefit anyone.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

YES, unfortunately IS TRUE...

I completely agree :)

In many cases, the results can be expected. If a largely positive result is expected and the risk is minimal but reward has great potential, then yeah I think it's ok. But to saturate lab mice with some beauty product every day to see how long it takes to get cancer, not only is it wrong but the research should be in reformulating the product, not seeing how long you can stay in business before the lawsuits start rolling in. This is a broad topic, any particular test you are referring to?

Agreed, when everything goes as expected it's alright, but when the animals get hurt or anything like that during the tests it's just horrible

It is called a rabies test and yes it is

Not really the kind of a testing I was talking about. But thanks for the input :)

Oh ok I would've said the vet if I knew what they do

That is true.

Maybe that can be used as a more productive alternative to the death penalty, for those who are too sick to deserve even a regular execution.

I don't agree with it, like, the animals also have feelings and they don't deserve to be treated like that.

Sometimes.

A hard question.
We slaughter possibly billions of animals a day to feed the planet because we are the dominant species.
But this for the most part (we hope) is done in a humane way.
However the question of the prolonged suffering of any creature by humans becomes a cloudy area when weighing it against the curing and treatment of human suffering.
We humans under normal circumstances would not use other humans to test in the way we utilise animals to do so.
I suppose the point that i’m trying to make is as we are the dominant species we as a collective are acting as such and are making the under species bear the brunt of our humanity toward other humans and leaving those other animals to pick up the tab for our ‘progress’.. but we do need to progress.
As I said at the top.. hard question.

Peace.

“We slaughter possibly billions of animals a day to feed the planet because we are the dominant species.”

And can you please tell me what makes humans the dominant species? Might does not make right.

“But this for the most part (we hope) is done in a humane way.”

Then what do you think is the most humane way to slaughter an animal whom you don’t even need to eat in the first place?
32zd8v.jpg (click to show)

“However the question of the prolonged suffering of any creature by humans becomes a cloudy area when weighing it against the curing and treatment of human suffering.”

There are very few diseases that have actually been cured with the help of animal testing. Plant-based medicine like that famously used by the ancient Chinese healers is the only cure one will ever need to heal anything. Besides, animals who get tested upon suffer far more than any human can possibly suffer from a disease.

Please explain to me why you think humans aren’t the dominant species on the planet ?

I NEVER said it was right, what I pointed out was that this is the way it is.

The most humane way to slaughter animals is as the true hunter would do it with stealth and near instantaneous death so the animals suffering is less.
However this is inefficient in the modern world so yes we have slaughterhouses that are extremely stressful and CAN SOMETIMES cause great harm. (Yes I have seen the documentary ‘Earthlings’ )

I think this beautiful romanticised idea that ‘ancient Chinese plant remedies’ will cure all ills is just that ..romanticised ( I would love it to be true, I really would ).
But we don’t see university medical research departments scrambling en masse to fill the gaps in their knowledge by turning to ancient Chinese medicine.

The last thing here is the real subject matter I believe.
Which is the suffering of animals (and also humans).
Whilst unnecessary suffering is wrong, both pain and suffering are objective and I feel it is wrong to say animals or humans suffer more than the other in the situations mentioned.

Please believe me when I say we have to deal with reality here and for the moment this is the way things are.
BUT WE LOOK FORWARD TO A BETTER DAY where our technological advancements (synthetic meats that are more nutritious and have better or equivalent taste to the real thing and also to all types of animal testing) LEAVE ANIMAL SUBJUGATION A THING OF THE PAST.
However we aren’t at that point yet.
But as we know from history emancipation of peoples and places came slowly and so it will be with animals also.
THEIR DAY WILL COME.

Peace.

“Please explain to me why you think humans aren’t the dominant species on the planet? I NEVER said it was right, what I pointed out was that this is the way it is.”

Fair enough. I thought you meant that humans are morally-dominant.

“The most humane way to slaughter animals is as the true hunter would do it with stealth and near instantaneous death so the animals suffering is less. However this is inefficient in the modern world so yes we have slaughterhouses that are extremely stressful and CAN SOMETIMES cause great harm. (Yes I have seen the documentary ‘Earthlings’)”

Since it’s so hard to fully eliminate suffering when slaughtering animals, and more importantly, since we have no need to kill those animals in the first place (since they wanted to live; I mean, is it okay to kill a sleeping baby?), “humane slaughter” is clearly nothing more than an oxymoron. We have no need to eat their body parts, especially when we already have plant-based versions of everything.

“I think this beautiful romanticised idea that ‘ancient Chinese plant remedies’ will cure all ills is just that ..romanticised ( I would love it to be true, I really would ). But we don’t see university medical research departments scrambling en masse to fill the gaps in their knowledge by turning to ancient Chinese medicine.”

That’s because the government wants to keep us sick, so it can make money and control our minds. The idea that marijuana heals our bodies is already quite similar to the idea of Chinese medicine, so Chinese medicine can likely be true if cannabis has been proven to heal.

“BUT WE LOOK FORWARD TO A BETTER DAY where our technological advancements (synthetic meats that are more nutritious and have better or equivalent taste to the real thing and also to all types of animal testing) LEAVE ANIMAL SUBJUGATION A THING OF THE PAST. However we aren’t at that point yet. But as we know from history emancipation of peoples and places came slowly and so it will be with animals also. THEIR DAY WILL COME.”

Synthetic meats still require animal testing, and the stem cells are still sentient when they’re growing into the flesh. Just like the “humane meat” oxymoron, lab meat is nothing more than a half-assed excuse from going vegan. Beyond Meat, Impossible Foods, and Gardein already exist.

https://www.beyondmeat.com/
https://www.gardein.com/
https://daiyafoods.com/

Subjective not objective ( D’oh 😣)

Peace.

I still think you have to deal with the reality of the situation.
That being that there is not going to be some amazing Thanos snap and the whole planet will turn vegan.. the truth is things like this this take time & small (sometimes forced) steps.
To dismiss someone trying / taking up eating synthetic meats as half-assed is is quite negative as it may have been a big step just to get them to go in the right direction to start with.
Please do put too much faith in cannabis.
Yes it is a great drug (I would know 😉) but it doesn’t heal.
At the most it generates relief, but doesn’t cause remission or cure.
Please don’t use the ‘That’s because the government wants to keep us sick, so it can make money and control our minds’.
It just makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist and cheapens your arguments and good points.
Also the point about killing babies the same way.

Can I just ask a few quick questions ? ( you don’t have to answer if you don’t want )

If you had a child ( maybe you do ) and the child was terminally ill but then a breakthrough drug was found to CURE their condition but it had been tested exclusively on animals would you let your child have it ?

Also there are 3 animals if you kill one of them the other 2 get to live or all 3 die.
What would you do ?

Peace.

I already know that the vegan movement is a slow process, but synthetic meat causes the same amount of suffering while keeping many folks from going vegan (and likely even converting vegans back into carnists). After all, it requires the same amount of land usage, and it doesn’t resolve any of the health issues. Plus, all synthetic meat has to be GMO.

It’s in the government’s interests to get us sick. What can possibly stop the government?

If I had a terminally-I’ll child, I’d have to give him the drug, because after all, he has to be alive to spread veganism.

Yes very good points!😄

I’m glad you chose the child realising the ends sometimes justify the means.

BTW if you raise a child as vegan that’s fine but allow them to make their own decisions on lifestyle once they are old enough, don’t make them indoctrinate or force the issue to others.

Please stop with this THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO GET / KEEP US SICK thing.
People should take responsibility for their own health ( for the most part ).

Peace.

I think it's just a question how much knowledge people have about foods.My experience even if I want to keep the non-GMO vegan or vegetarian food diet, without any poison, you just CAN NOT find!Why? Because they do not make food without poisonous components.

Peace.

Thanx your comment,it is the best idea, but unfortunately in my small place without garden it is not possible.

31nde4.jpg (click to show) Absolutely not. What can humans possibly have that nonhumans don’t that justifies speciesism? Especially when it already is acknowledged that nonhumans are similar enough to be tested on.

Ha! I’m glad you like my GIF! You should submit it on BeyondTheComments! Here’s the YouTube version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJVTJ_ihSyQ

That's where I got it from. You need to enunciate more clearly, mumblemouth ;)

HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE SOON!

they wouldn't test it on animals unless they did lots of research beforehand

No