WE CURED MEASLES! STOP BEING STUPID!

Agreed. If it weren't for vaccines, human society would not exist.

Thousands of years without vaccines: exists.

Yeah and during those thousands of years, billions of people died from infectious disease, cumulatively speaking. Now imagine a population of 7 billion people and counting, living in a world without vaccines. Wouldn't last very long, would it?

Yeah, it would. The world will never be wiped out by disease.

Plague Inc. says you're wrong. That plague simulator uses realistic mechanics to show how easy it would be for a pathogen to eradicate all life on Earth if no one is immune.

Humanity has already nearly died from horrible diseases many times. Do you actually want that to happen again!? LOL

Or computer game. I know there's one of those.

Ok. Nothing else to say, huh? You have nothing to disprove the already-set condition that an immune population nonlinearly decreases an infection's spread rate and that vaccines increase the immune population.

First of all, I'm travelling in Texas. Not much time to meme.

Second, maybe I just don't want the side effects of vaccines. Not sure why you're trying to force me to get them.

Most of the side effects of vaccines are pretty inconsequential. In many cases you simply get pain in the vaccination location that subsides after a few days or so. Unless you're allergic to the vaccines or you're immunocompromised you have no reason not to use them. Side effects of vaccines are almost never severe, and it's certainly not worth exposing yourself to unnecessary long-term danger trying to avoid the side effects of vaccines.

So you say.

Lol wow did you just ignore the link I posted below this comment?

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/safety/side_effects

That was just an example to prove how easy it would be for a pandemic to start without an immune population. The higher the population, the faster that a disease will spread, and this rate increases nonlinearly. The more infected, the higher the potential for more infection. The more people who are immune, the slower an infection will spread.

Plague Inc isn't realistic in the slightest. Do you think viruses use "upgrade points"? And do you honestly think that if one particular strain mutates within one person, that every other existing strain in the world becomes that way?

The only way you can possibly win the game is to infect every single person on the planet and then magically mutate every strain at once into something lethal. This is bullshit and impossible. Humanity will never be wiped out by any single natural disease this way.

Don't nitpick. The point I am trying to make is that if you remove vaccines then you will have pandemics in which hundreds of millions if not billions of people will die all over the planet from various diseases that would be otherwise contained. It has happened before: the Black Death nearly obliterated all of Europe. The Spanish Flu eradicated 5% of the entire human population, which is already a substantial amount given that humans were numbering in the billions that time. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it! When will the lesson be learned!?

lol statement of fact - that a disease will not magically change the exact same way across the entire planet - is not nitpicking.

More like, don't use a stupid game for your retarded arguments.

Besides, you have yet to display YOUR proof that vaccines don't work. What makes you think that the antivax statements have any chance against the decades of overwhelming evidence presented by the scientists of the world? Oh, and for whatever articles you post, have those articles been peer-reviewed by professionals?

Of course not from a single disease, but multiple diseases could spread rapidly across the planet, and without an immune population these diseases will proliferate in an exponential curve that's covered pretty well by Plague Inc's infectivity mechanics (it follows an epidemiological model). Of course, many aspects of that game are unrealistic such as upgrade points, but the exponential infection part of Plague Inc. is very realistic because that is exactly how infections grow, especially without a population of immune people. Infections remain contained if a large amount of the population is immune, but if there is no immune population, then the diseases will nonlinearly spread across the world and kill billions. I'm not sure why you would think that noting the abject fragility inherent with a world without vaccines and using Plague Inc.'s epidemiological model mechanics as an example would be retarded.

Making the best and most informed decision for your own child is every parents obligation and right. If you want to live in a policed nany state then move to china. Freedom is a dangerous thing, but it's still the best thing. To assume the government has your best interest in mind is insanity.

Yes it is a free choice and shouldn't be forced on anyone, but people are choosing to endanger their kids because ok stupid conspiracy theories.

And I'm perfectly healthy. Same go's for my family.

Vaccines are the reason that human society still exists. If you have the resources to obtain vaccinations yet refuse to do so, then you're committing an unforced error that could cost you your life. Without vaccinations, immune systems can only really start fighting against diseases within the body after a few weeks, and there are many, many diseases out there that can kill you within less than a day. So by not vaccinating, you put yourself at unnecessary risk of a horrible death due to vaccine-preventable diseases.

I'm not going to stick myself with a hundred needles every year with the fear of what MIGHT happen.

MIGHT becomes WILL when it comes to disease. Please do not contribute to the free-riding problem, thank you.

So you claim.

Don't be a fool! It is impossible to not be exposed to an illness some time in your life, so the solution is to make yourself immune to them as much as possible, if possible. Also, human history has long been riddled with devastating plagues that could have destroyed humanity but didn't, and now are considered lesser and lesser threats thanks to vaccines. Smallpox, rabies, typhoid, and many other diseases that have haunted humanity are now mainly a figment of the distant past because of vaccines. Smallpox, for example, used to be the leading cause of death in Europe, killing about 400,000 Europeans each year (https://web.archive.org/web/20090601172056/http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=vacc.chapter.3). Now, it is a distant bad memory thanks to the synthesis of the world's first vaccines by Edward Jenner, with the help of a massive global campaign to eradicate the disease (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2491071/pdf/bullwho00076-0026.pdf). To reverse most if not all of humanity's medical progress by contributing to the free-riding effect is tantamount to the extermination of humanity as a species. If smallpox somehow re-emerges from the ashes, the cause will always be traced to the anti-vax beliefs, as they are the major contributors to the resurgence of previously-eradicated diseases, as you can see with measles. Clearly you have not read a single history book concerning the horrific plagues of the past, and those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Yeah, those cases are great. Lots of those diseases were eradicated. But maybe living healthy and building up your immune system is just as helpful as vaccines. You have to look at the living conditions hundreds of years ago. Either way, I'm fine with people getting vaccines. I just don't think I need them, and I sure don't want the government to have the power to force them on people.

Vaccines are part of what building up your immune system is about. You cannot build up immunity to certain diseases without vaccines because immune system responses take weeks to mount up, and there are a great many diseases that can kill you way before that happens. A vaccinated individual, however, will react immediately to the pathogens in question after the immune system has adapted to the vaccinated version. That is why vaccines are so important. They do not restrict your ability to build up your immune system, they enhance it.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

A reply to your latest comment: Again, a false equivalency. Sure, some vaccines have low effectiveness, but many of them have very high success rates. The MMR vaccine, for example, has 97% success rates in giving immunity to measles and rubella, as well as an 88% success rate against mumps. These vaccines are definitely worth it as the risks are nigh-insignificant while the long-term benefits can not only save your life but also the lives of the hundreds of people around your location.

I cannot reply directly to your latest comment due to the comment chain limit thing.

That's your opinion. Leave other peoples kids alone asshole.

It's the parents I'm blaming, the kids don't have a choice

Yet you will not explain how the disease - which was eradicated in America, obviating the need for any vaccination - suddenly re-appeared.

Children who aren't immune can still catch the pathogen. Just because it's irraticated in humans doesn't mean the disease just dies.

I honestly can't tell who is more f**king stupid - you who can't spell 'eradicated', or the f**king moron who upvoted you.

Adaptive immunity is not hereditary. People who have gained adaptive immunity to any pathogen, whatever the means of acquiring that immunity, cannot spread this immunity to their offspring. Therefore, if people stop using vaccines then the susceptible population will grow as the immune population diminishes. And the more susceptible people there are, the greater the chance that a measles-infected person coming into America from the outside will spread the disease across the population and result in the resurgence of measles, like the outbreak happening right now. Had the population continued vaccination, measles coming from the outside would simply remain contained. Moreover, Americans going out of the country and coming back would not bring the measles virus with them had they been vaccinated, as their immunity would destroy the virus as it entered their systems before they could do anything. You wanted an explanation? Here you go.

In other words, illegal aliens carrying diseases are being allowed into a country that had the diseases eradicated.

Argument FOR strong border protection - CHECK !

Another swing and a miss from the king of the stupid people.

You have misinterpreted every aspect of my argument to sustain a fruitless "build a wall" incentive that doesn't even have a shred of relevance to my point. This applies to all people coming out of America and coming back, including Americans themselves.

@John Dynamo Travelers coming out of America and back who have been unvaccinated can also reintroduce the disease. Border walls can't stop THAT, can it? That's why you want to instead robustify the population by vaccinating them. And they did, for a long while... but everything changed when the antivaxxers attacked.

I could have sworn you said : "... the greater the chance that a measles-infected person coming into America from the outside will spread the disease across the population and result in the resurgence of measles, like the outbreak happening right now."

Given the CDC requires ALL LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to be checked BEFORE entering the USA, one can deduce you were speaking of illegal immigrants. Else, the threat would be stopped BEFORE reaching the border, per immigration and health law.

So what did I misrepresent? NOT A GO***MNED THING. I can't help it you are paralyzed from the neck up.

AGAIN - Argument FOR strong border protection - CHECK !

People shouldn't be forced to vaccinate but the problem is that antivaxxers are giving people reasons to NOT vaccinate. Without critical thinking, these people blindly follow the dark path of the antivaxxer and as a result, the population pays the price.

Your new chinese government will have all the vaccinations you require. Good luck on your move.

I would argue the people you claim to be blindly following anti vaxxers have exorcised the critical thinking process and have made their own conclusion. You trying to shame those people for exorcising their freedom to choose not to have government injections is your choice, but if you really have a problem with freedom then MOVE TO CHINA. freedom isn't for the weak or weak minded.

No, but conspiracy theories are for the weak-minded, especially those surrounding vaccines. People have the right to choose, but if you're choosing to not vaccinate over a conspiracy (e.g. the "vAcCiNEs cAuSE aUTiSm" theory), then it is not an informed decision because there is no factual basis for what the antivaxxers say. If it weren't for the antivaxxer conspiracy theories, people would not have any doubts about vaccination unless they were immunocompromised and herd immunity would be maintained.

I mean like, vaccines causing autism? Cancer? And all those other spurious correlations that antivaxxers claim to imply causation? Seriously? How can any informed decision be based off what they say?

To be honest, there is literally no reason why you should not vaccinate unless you have an allergy to the vaccine's contents (the things in the vaccine used to preserve the inactivated pathogen or pieces of the pathogen) or have a severe immunodeficiency. Yes, people should have the choice to vaccinate, but anyone who could think logically would vaccinate, because the benefits significantly outweigh the risks for the healthy. Immunodeficiency or severe allergy would be among the ONLY valid reasons to not vaccinate.

Vaccines are government injections, you are arguing for government mandated injections. If you dont see the potential for harm here then you are completely blind to history. Any benefit these injections appear to have can and most likely will completely be dwarfed by this power being used for the depopulation movement.
Me wanting to keep my right to say no to government injections isn't crazy, its actually the definition of freedom. If you trust governments then move somewhere where a government will keep you safe. In the United states government is supposed to stay the hell out of my business and my body.

Did you just woefully ignore the fact that society is living and breathing because of vaccines? Did you just blatantly disregard the fact that every single person in the world would be dead from horrific diseases without the herd immunity granted by vaccines? Congratulations, you've played yourself because you have proven to have not even rudimentary knowledge of the simplest medical truths. Vaccines inject inactivated or dead versions of pathogens into the human body, allowing the immune system to attack and gain adaptive immunity to the pathogen, so that they can react immediately when the "real" pathogen enters the system. I shouldn't even have to tell you this. You literally just made a spurious correlation that vaccines are automatically bad just because they are government injections even though the entire human race owes their very LIVES to vaccines. You speak of "freedom," yet you put people on a death sentence by encouraging people to not vaccinate themselves or their kids, no matter how horrific the consequences of vaccine hesitancy.

I'm not actually doing anything or getting people to do anything.
I, am, standing, up, for, my, right, to, say, no, to, your, opinions.
I shouldn't have to be forcefully injected by my government because you live in fear.
You are ignoring history by not acknowledging that govenments have killed more of their own people then all the wars combined. And you're advocating for making that process easier, now all your government has to do is inject you when they decide to kill again.

This is my last response to you, you keep deleting your comments and I'm having a hard time finding the new ones here as there is just too many to sift through. I wish you all the best in your health and pursuits of happiness.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171704/]

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/herd-immunity

Besides, please state your sources for your extreme and conspiracy-theorist-like paranoia towards governments and government injections that are meant to stop cataclysmic global pandemics from occurring.

Vaccines have been around for how long? Not even 100 years. Humans have been around for how long? Forever... so you're saying that without vaccines all humans would have died...
All you have is your opinions. Opinions are not facts. Sorry.

This guy wants us to have to accept vaccines from the government. I wonder if he wants them to take all our guns too. Then we would be completely helpless if the government wanted.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171704/

As human civilisation expands, so does its population. And as population increases, the potential for widespread pandemic also increases nonlinearly. This is why people needed vaccines during the mid-18th century and onwards (The first vaccine was in the 1790s, so again you're wrong about vaccines "not being here for 100 years"), because pandemics were nonlinearly increasing in scale. Imagine 7 billion people in a world without vaccines. Wouldn't last very long, would it? Exactly. Moreover, you're simply ignoring the fact that there are many diseases today that would easily exterminate a huge swath of the human population if vaccines never existed. Smallpox, for example. Oh, and before vaccines and medicine there was the Black Death in the 14th Century, which nearly obliterated all of Europe. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. And that's exactly what you're doing; getting people to repeat the horrors of history.

As long as the rest of us have the right to sue your ass when our kid, who because of health reasons cannot be vaccinated and dies because of your shear stupidity and selfishness.

Sounds good to me..
So tell me, are you an advocate for a parent's right to sue a vaccine company or the government if their child is harmed by vaccines? Because the vaccine companies and the government made it illegal to sue them...
So now that you know this do you feel like an asshole?
You having your rights and freedoms and liberties while someone else doesn't is not freedom.
We live in a free country, and all you assholes need to realize that and start fighting for people's individual rights instead of taking them away. If you don't like freedom then move somewhere else, where you can be a fully indoctrinated, vaccinated sheep!

Oh how I love the, "if you don't like it here, move somewhere else" comments!
Listen jack-off, I'm not leaving! That's part of what you call a, FREE COUNTRY!

Secondly, you can most certainly sue vaccine manufacturers.
https://vaxopedia.org/2018/05/28/can-parents-still-sue-vaccine-manufacturers/

Dumb!

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-vaccine-court-is-hazardous-to-your-health/

Read this dummy .
Vaccines companies are not held responsible for their damages. This mickey mouse vaccine court they set up is not justice. Lawsuits are designed to do two things, reward compensation for those wronged, and punish those that did wrong. With these courts there's hardly a reward and no punishment.

Retard!

And yes, if you dont like freedom move the f**k out!!!! F**king communist asshat! Thos country was founded on live and let live. Not live as I see fit.

You're pulling information from, "theamericanconservative" as a valid source for your radical opinion. Too funny. YOU CAN'T FIND CORROBORATION FROM A LEGITIMATE SOURCE.

Again, I'm not moving anywhere.

Hopefully we'll only have to listen to you idiots for two more years, then you all will slowly die out of old age and fall back into the woodwork as the ignorant minority that you are and the rest of us can start rebuilding our country again.

It's your opinion on what a legitimate source is you f**king idiot!!!
If you dont want to be free or others to be free then dont live in a free country you piece of communist trash!!!
Playing the Putin did it collusion card against trump is right out CNN fake news and the idiots on the views playbook. Congratulations on being a braindead repeat anything the media says f**kwad.

You're base is made up of a bunch of jussie smolletts and poor me virtue signaling victims.you lost and are still loosing the fight against freedom.
America is freedom, so you can go f**k a goat you commie bitch!

Too funny. Thank you for the laughs. What an unhinged toad.

Eat my freedom bitch

Aha Gromaly, so you have no more sources and no more points to support your anti-vax argument so you resort to insults and personal attacks.

Eat. It.

Again, touting freedom and how free Merica is and then, "if you don't like it here, move" like some dictatorial idiot. All in the same post. Which are you? A freedom loving patriot or a commie like our Putin puppet?

Cases of reported hospitalization,
disability, deaths or life-threatening illness that, "might" be due to vaccination in 2014 was 1,737. IN NONE OF THESE CASES HAS A DIRECT LINK TO THE VACCINE BEEN PROVEN. In fact, a person could get a vaccine one day and get hit by a bus that afternoon and be put on the list as a possible cause and effect to the vaccination.

In America alone each year before vaccines:
Measles caused about 500 deaths and 48,000 hospitalizations
Polio deaths peaked in 1952 at around 3,200.
8yrs after introducing the vaccine, deaths dropped to nothing
15,000 Americans died from diphtheria in 1921. Between 2001-2014 CDC reports 2 cases
An epidemic of rubella (German measles) in 1964-65 infected 12½ million Americans, killed 2,000 babies, and caused 11,000 miscarriages. Since 2012, 15 cases of rubella were reported to CDC.

Again, what you are touting is dangerous to all of us. You're doing it under the guise of personal freedom while also suggesting an American citizen to leave if they don't like your point of view like a dictator.

Personal freedom where you like it, dictatorial demands where it suits you.

Well said!

Freedom isn't safe, move somewhere safer like china

You're just putting anti-vax sentiments under the guise of "freedom" to guide people towards their doom at the hands of easily-preventable diseases. I see through your little rhetoric. Admit it, I have pulled out the sole Jenga card holding your lies together. And now, ashes, ashes, they all fall down!

Parents denying vaccines from their children is equivalent to "die and let die." I mean seriously, unless the kids in question are immunocompromised or have an allergy to the vaccines, not vaccinating a child is essentially giving that child a DEATH SENTENCE, all things considered, pathogens and such.

Just sayin'.

Viable for what?

But... You don't know when that is. Also, in the future, when technology allows earlier children to survive outside the womb, would that technology determine whether it's a human life or not? Of course not. That's extremely illogical.

You say that but people a long time ago never even considered space travel. You can't guarantee anything where future technological advancements are concerned. So does technology determine human life?

It may keep people alive, but they're still people. The technology doesn't determine their humanity.

I'm going to assume you have no answer to my comment, so if you cannot verify it's morally fine to abort an unborn baby, I would say don't support abortion anymore.

But you don't know when that is, so you're basically saying:
It might be a baby at x point in its development. Meh just kill it.
You should be the one that has to prove at a given point that it is not a baby.

Yet you don't know when fetuses become babies? So, you don't really know when they shouldn't be killed, right?

For what reason do you not?

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