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Democratic Socialist believe certain social goods like health care should be run by the government but otherwise believe in capitalism.

Even if that were true, l would be hesitant to allow a gov't bureaucracy to run a health care system. Socialized systems are great in theory, and treat people like cattle in practicality.

I was stating the difference between socialism and democratic socialism

Not really, This is from the web page of the Democratic Socialists of America.

"The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. We believe that working people should run both the economy and society democratically to meet human needs, not to make profits "

So they are communists? Last I checked one of their big things was "workers must own the means of production!"

I am a bit confused. Communism is when the government owns everything.

"Communism was an economic-political philosophy founded by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in the second half of the 19th century. Marx and Engels met in 1844, and discovered that they had similar principles. In 1848 they wrote and published "The Communist Manifesto." They desired to end capitalism feeling that it was the social class system that led to the exploitation of workers. The workers that were exploited would develop class consciousness. Then there would be a fundamental process of class conflict that would be resolved through revolutionary struggle. In this conflict, the proletariat will rise up against the bourgeoisie and establish a communist society. Marx and Engels thought of the proletariat as the individuals with labor power, and the bourgeoisie as those who own the means of production in a capitalist society. The state would pass through a phase, often thought of as a socialism, and eventually settle finally on a pure communist society. In a communist society, all private ownership would be abolished, and the means of production would belong to the entire community. In the communist movement, a popular slogan stated that everyone gave according to their abilities and received according to their needs. Thus, the needs of a society would be put above and beyond the specific needs of an individual."

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs201/projects/communism-computing-china/index.html

There would still need to be a government to enforce this. The government, or leaders of the entire community would need to be good enough to make decisions in which everybody is equal and needs met. This is why communism is utopian. And what democratic socialists say workers must own the means to production. They say that the government should regulate production, which is still capitalism. Democratic socialists still believe in capitalism, but not as unfettered as the right.

Yeah there would be a government, but the basic idea behind communism is(so far as I can tell)that the workers own the means of production so that the capitalist over-class can't exploit them for their labor any more. Democratic socialism might not have gone all the way, but its ideas are very firmly rooted in Marxism. What we call a democratic socialist in the USA and what a country like say Denmark calls a democratic socialist are NOT the same thing. In fact, the Danes actually came out and rebuked Sanders for claiming they were socialist.

Denmark is not socialist, the economy is based on corporations. Democratic socialism is still closer to capitalism, as that is still the base of a democratic socialism society. I was commenting to capt that socialism and democratic socialism are very different.

You're not wrong there. Just pointing out that it's not as far removed from communism as you may have believed. :P at its root it's the same ideology just not taken to such an extreme. Still has the same problem as any other ideology that promotes workers owning the means of production though.. the workers don't tend to have the capital or the will to invest and grow a corporation, and it is in essence impossible for the workers to truly own the means of production without getting rid of the capitalist class

In general, socialists believe the government should provide a range of basic services to the public, such as health care and education, for free or at a significant discount. That is not even close to workers owning production. That is the government owning some services and regulating others.

I am gonna own up to this being a case of me not understanding you at first - after re-reading some of your posts its pretty clear you did NOT actually say democratic socialists were advocating for control of the means of production. I missed the "and what" in one of your replies to me and I guess just waking up also crossed some wires. My bad, dude.

Its good. Serious respect to you. You seem very informed and a decent person.

Democratic socialist however believe that the government should help provide for people's most basic needs and help all people have an equal chance at achieving success.

https://www.businessinsider.com/difference-between-socialist-and-democratic-socialist-2018-6

That article itself states that they're fundamentally anti-capitalist "As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people."

It sounds to me like they'd prefer for capitalism to end tomorrow than to be forced to just reform it, but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

It's that simplee!!!1111 stupid libtards!! :triumph: :triumph: :triumph:

lel the npcs memee is so epic :joy::joy::joy: i roast libbies with it every day ^_^_^_^_^_^_^