In Seattle, Workers Actually Requested FEWER Hours So That They Could Still Qualify For Welfare!

At best, if the employer doesn't subsidize their medical insurance, right now, they make $13/hour. But in most instances, they make only $11 an hour. Nothing like spreading lies to get a point across.

source: https://www.seattle.gov/Documents/Departments/LaborStandards/OLS-MW-Chart-082016_3_13.pdf Basically, you're saying that Seattle has a $15/hr minimum wage, but it won't reach that level until 2021. So saying they are already making that much is a bold face lie.

First of all, thank you for posting something legible and posting a link to the source.
Second, you take the internet too serious. I was making a joke based on actual events.
I was not saying the low wage workers over there were making $15/hour. I was not "spreading lies" (for anyone who actually informs themselves about such things, but for those who don't that is why they have folks like you) but I was making a point.
The point is that even since the incremental increase in wages, low wage workers (especially welfare recipients) have suffered and complained because they lost hours and benefits.

Kinda looks like you did, saying that they have the $15/hr minimum wage. Fake news which is a lie. Which people are asking for the hourly reduction.People on the verge of losing their food stamps or medicaid? or TANF? So far, the ones I've seen concerned about it are those that will lose their housing allowances. The closest apartment within a full time worker's budget. The closest is in Kirkland, WA, about a half hour drive to Seattle. It's interesting that none of the "welfare recipients" have stepped forward and made that claim on the TV or radio news. The sources for that are "journalists" using second and third hand sources. They gamed the system, not the welfare recipients. Still, I have to wonder how much their rents change. I lived in subsidized housing before, and my rent was calculated annually on my weekly pay. If my rent was based on, say, $600 a month at the beginning of the lease, but it went up $110 a month shortly after, my rent wouldn't go up until I signed the next lease, a year later. (funny, if my rent went down during the year, I could report it and it would drop, such as layoff, but had to turn it in again after called back) For a person, or family, whose income increases $100 a month, the amount their rent would increase would be $25 to $40, depending on what utilities are furnished.

When someone doesn't tell the whole truth, it becomes a lie. So we're discussing people that are now making $1800 a month. Not slackers. But, because of Where they live and work, could not afford to live there, and may not be able to afford transportation between the lower priced suburbs and work. They HAVE to live there to be able to work. They could move anywhere in the country, and pretty much have the same problem. From what I've been able to determine, though, is that it's not the restaurant workers that are calling for the hour cuts. The only, anecdotal report of any such thing is one, non-profit nursing home in 2015, whose director stated that the higher pay had some employees concerned that they may lose their housing subsidies.

I'm a former Christian, but realized that the bible is full of bullshit. Should I make a meme that says all Christians believe the Bible is bullshit?

I don't know what your ranting about but it's true what was stated in the meme. He didn't say "all minimum wage workers are asking for less hours". And subsidized housing is "welfare".
From what I can tell from the microscopic print image, in 2017 employees at large companies get $15/hour when the employer doesn't pay toward medical benefits.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/nonprofit-worker-reduced-hours-requested-stay-subs/43270246

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.be2da087002e

I saw the KIRO report and, like Council Member Nick Licata said, the incidents were anecdotal. You realize that the study ignore 48% of minimum wage employers, right? Walmart, Mcdonald's, etc. Mind you, it has not been peer reviewed, but interestingly enough, a study by the University of California (Berkley) didn't find anything about people asking for reduced hours. http://irle.berkeley.edu/files/2017/Seattles-Minimum-Wage-Experiences-2015-16.pdf.

Still, we have one Nora Gibson stating that she's had 5 employees request a cut in hours because they were afraid of losing their housing allowance. This is where news gets slanted. That housing allowance is progressive. Yes, the more you work, the more you pay, but the way she puts it, her employees were worried that they were going to get booted out of their subsidized apartments. According to the eligibility guidelines,
https://www.seattlehousing.org/housing/sha-housing/eligibility
while people that make 30% of the area median wage(80K/annual) or homeless get priority placement on the wait list, but anyone earning 80% of the AMI can apply and be approved. That's $64K, far from the the $27K the minimum wage earners make.

Can we get a study from a state that is not broke and has 3rd world country roads and has the highest cost of living? You know a place where 5 different people had to share a two bedroom apartment. Because you know, that's how California is...

Also you can give them 30$ or even 200$ an hour, trash will always be trash. Minimum wage jobs are not I tended to support a family. They are for the entree level class, you know high school kids and college students. Problem is that trash is always trash and will never seek to get out of their comfort zone to improve themselves. Oh yes, there is such thing as trash people. Those who are still hugging minimum wage jobs.

Who said they were. I use the single person in all of my examples, not a Single parent or family. Still, if the job is worth doing, then the employee should be paid a liveable wage.

High school students and college students may be what the jobs initially evolved to, but count just how many students are working in those places these days. see my quote from FDR about that. Would YOU gamble your business on an unmotivated person who's big worry is how to make rent?

What planet do you live on, what job do you have, what wage to you make?

"Still, if the job is worth doing, then the employee should be paid a liveable wage. " <--- WRONG, where yo get this from? If the person feels that the employer pays them too low then that person needs to find a better job elsewhere, that simple. It is a basic principle of economics, supply and demand, If you do not have a drive to get a degree, proper education, or skill training to make yourself valuable, guess what, you will get what you deserve. If the employer pays too little then no one should take the job, then the employer is going to be forced to pay more or do the job himself. It is BASICS. The problem is that we want to have politician run our market and the economy and have retards like you with no understanding of basic economics, enabling trash by supporting it with the use of biased studies results from places that have no credit to be telling people how to live their lives, and yes still referencing California as that is one major F UP state, not going to let that one die just yet. You know what is also basic? We live in a planet with limited resources, and survival is for the fittest. Those who fight will survive, those who do not struggle to survive will fall behind, that has been there since the very existence of life on this planet, and no one, not even you is going to change that. If they want to make a livable wage, then they and they alone (we do not need more enablers) are responsible for that, not their employer, not you, not government.

Obviously you have never had a job. If you offered me a job that didn't pay my basic needs, I tell you to go get screwed. If you don't feel the job is important enough to pay a livable wage, it's not important to your business. Anybody can do it on top of their regular work. When my inlaws had their wood shop, they didn't think it worth the cash to have a janitor. Everyone cleaned their area at the end of the day, and My mother-in-law took care of vacuuming the office and cleaning the restrooms. They understood this.

If you want decent employees, you pay them decently. Wonder why I refuse to do business with Papa Johns? Two decades ago their minimum wage, short hours caused me to stop doing business with them. One person on duty near a major employer is bad enough. Their wage and labor policy was, and to my knowledge,still is, poor. Under staffing and poor training causes customers to stop doing business with them. A business owner can blame the cost of labor, but as I've pointed out elsewhere, McDonald's has found that paying a livable wage allows them to retain workers, who actually become skilled at their jobs. McDonald's realizes it, and they aren't exactly going broke. Check out how their their test did when they raised their employee wages to livable. Employee retention lead to lower training costs, experience led to better service which lead to better customer satisfaction which led to higher return rates from customers. The 10% increase in wages led to an increase in profits of just over 5%. Likewise, when I discussed the problem of low wages with the local Burger King franchise, the marketing man didn't think his bosses would go for it. Locally, BK was the first to try it, though, and I have no problems with them. McDonald's? The local franchise owner has your thinking and has seen his business drop.

You are right, trash like yourself will always be trash, mirror mirror and all that.
Betcha spend all day memeing away here while golfing with your fellow CEOs *wink*

By the way racist slurs do not affect Hispanic people. That only works for black people who get angry. We will simply continue laughing at you making less than us and bang your white woman. At least with us they do not have to worry about child support since they know we do take care of the family. Rofl. C'mon keep trying, show me the best of Jack_henoff.

WHAT racist slurs?
Obviously you got offended if you got triggered by one where there was none, ya pube brain dolt.
Plus, homie, you just said you ain't white, so congrats, negrito, your Latino preito complex ain't screaming too loud.

Your hoochies having 4 kids with 12 baby daddies ain't taking care of nothing but the penile urge to jizz up hos, like the one that raised you.

Lol, is that your best? No wonder you are stuck making minimum wage.

Aww, the son of a welfare mom who screwed half an island is still crying?

Yeah, doesn't my mom makes trash like you jealous. A single mom with two kids to support an even to this date she still can't speak English well makes more than minimum wage, owns a house and never complained about her salary. Are you envious? Because she just proved all your trash talk worthless. Trash are always going to come out with excuses, or point fingers. This is what you will never do, sell all your entertainment and bust your a$$. Those burger flipping jobs are getting replaced by machines, running out of places to run to...

My mother was an example. It looks like it was too much salt your little wounds can gandle. So you know she came from Cuban a place where government has control of all. you are welcome to go visit it and see the end results of your own thinking . I'm a citizen, I do not make minimum wage and not complaining about my wages. I served this country in its military and I'm contributing to this very country every day. I got out my comfort zone to get wages I'm happy with. See America,you need to call out trash for what they are. It is okay if you offend them, and let them know they are not wanted else they will turn this country into a social communists trash. The very same trash my mother had to escape. I'm going to leave you this last words: "we are taking your good jobs, and YOU are always going to be making minimum wage" mwahhahaha ROFL who is going to save you?

Really? Thing is, your uneducated illiterate non-Ingles speaking mommy who cleans offices at night was the ONLY example you ccould come up with.

I knew you hadda be a Hispanic, only they seek to make themselves look better accomplishment wise but trying (and failing) to put others down, instead of by citing their own accomplishments, of which your mommy is the only one in your welfare sucking WIC cashing multi baby daddy hoodrat life you can lay claim to. Jealousy burn you too much?

Ahh, tell me, papi, how's it feel when mamasita calls you basura and condenado retardado contra hijo de maldito diablo or some crap like that instead by you own name? Does the failure you are eat at you that badly?

Bendito.

I had many jobs. I'm nowhere close to being a CEO. But I had a good mother who came from a another country with 2 children not knowing English and she showed me and my brother that this is the land of opportunity and if you bust your a$$ you can achieve and get what you want. You trash people that all you do is complain. Why did a woman with two kids, not a citizen (legal alien), not knowing the language did it and not YOU? What is your excuse? I know, you are trash, you are lazy. Get off your comfort zone and improve yourself instead of increasing the inflation in this country. Raising minimum wage = raising inflation, another basic economic principle. Trash trash trash.

My excuse sure ain't, "My mommy is better than you."

Bucker up, Tarzan. Your mommy is NOT American, and neither are you.
On top of that, she had to come HERE for a handout because she was a FAILURE in her own homeland, just as YOU are now. Otherwise you wouldn't need to be riding her tattered dress to PRETEND that you did anything worthwile in MY country. Where's daddy in this pic? Lovely, you just showed yourself to be a typical piece of broken home trash projecting and deflecting to make up for being a loser.

Go back home and do something for YOUR people, parasite.

worthwhile*

Preach son!1 UPS!

I was just trolling and making a mock at people who are not happy with their lots in life. I'm a jerk like that, I admit it.

But it is a serious thing to say, "I'm a former Christian," then to say that God's word is BS.

The biblical term for what you are calling yourself, if you did formerly believe God's revelation about salvation through Christ, is *apostate.*

If you were just a "false convert" and believed yourself to be a Christian but were wrong about what you believed and now it doesn't matter to you, there is definitely still hope for you.

However, if you were a false convert who did believe in salvation through Christ and now repudiate it and revile it, verses 18 and 22 of 1 John 2 call you a liar and antichrist (against Christ,) while Hebrews 6:4-6 says it impossible to renew you again unto repentance. The biblical position is that you were never a Christian only a false convert and if you now deny and revile what you formerly professed to believe, I fear for your soul. I'm not joking about nor trying to be a jerk about that.

C'mon.. Swiggy has you NAILED on the facts re: Min wage/welfare. When it comes to scripture, I am your huckleberry. Cherry picking at it's finest. However, there are so many contradictions in both the OT and NT, you can pick, I suppose. However, it is clear from innumerable passages in the NT that no man is beyond salvation. (No need to cite the verses here, you should know them.) Of course, as Swiggy says, this is 100% BS and bronze age goat herder fiction. Just.. don't.

So you assert that are "so many contradictions in the OT and NT," then affirm that there are "innumerable passages in the NT that no man is beyond salvation," then "of course...this is 100% BS and bronze age goat herder fiction."

You are more like a DINGLEBERRY than a huckleberry.

Until you can sort yourself out from your own inconsistencies and contradictions I won't even ask you to prove such is found in the Scriptures, nor will I ask to defend your assertion that "no man is beyond salvation."

Oh I'm sorry.. you thought I was a believer? No... I am just very acquainted with your book. The entire premise of the gospels is redemption through accepting jesus.. that is just what it is. The contradictions in scripture are abundant and easily found. However, the basic plot line of salvation through accepting jesus is constant. And yes, the book is fiction, think of it as having a conversation about The Lord of the Rings books. Same dynamic at play.

Romans 10:13 KJV - For whosoever shall call upon the name - Bible ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10%3A13&version...
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 ESV / 3 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

There is your mechanism. Stated by Paul and whoever John is.. According to scripture, belief and in some cases stated repentance are the only requirements for salvation. jesus even offered the other criminals being executed with him salvation through belief... I see no mechanism here. I am simply playing along. If the scripture is 100% correct.. then this is the way you are saved. My belief or disbelief has nothing to do with it. Think of it like reading a manual. Argument by assertion is exactly what you are doing. Show me some NT scripture that outlines this mechanism for salvation. I gave you quotes from your book attributed to jesus.. and for the record i am a below average unbeliever..

My soul is fine, thank you for asking. But ask yourself, if you are a Christian, WWJD about trolling. The only time I recall him acting self-righteous was when he went after the money changers. Jesus said "For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always." (Matthew 26:11) Yet here are people that actually are working that you mock based on second and third hand information. Kinda like bearing false witness, is it not? What did Jesus do about the poor. He realized that they were always with us, but he believed in feeding the poor, He upset many when he healed on the sabbath. The people that you mock with this meme are not an order taker at a fast food place. These are care givers at a non-profit nursing home. based on the information that was originally presented, these are care givers taking care of the infirm and elderly: not a career that one goes in to get rich, but one that wants to contribute to society by taking care of the least of the least, the forgotten masses. When you read Matthew 26:11, how do you interpret it? My interpretation is that do not let Jesus leave you when you are with the poor. Too many believe he is talking about his physical form, but he is talking about his spirit. While being a good steward may want you to rebel against the actions of workers fearing that they will lose their affordable housing, it should also include making sure that those you steward are having their needs met. I pointed out already that the concern raised was not TANF, not Food Stamps, but housing. Our society has devolved this much. Do an online search of housing in the Seattle area. the cheapest thing I could find in the city of Seattle was a studio apartment just over $1400 a month. calculate that at the current $11 an hour they make, and you'll understand why I'm upset when some self righteous ass complains about it.

Good on you sir! Upvote!

Lol at having to research and tear apart a joke. Whether or not it's true for anyone is irrelevant, it's still funny.

So my employer would say I make $20.50 an hour, but after my taxes and deductions it is more like $12.25 an hour. So I really don't want to hear how they really aren't making $15 an hour, which is way to much for the majority of the jobs they do.

Your employer would be paying you $20.50 an hour. The law is written so that, as a service to you, and to guarantee the government gets their tax revenue, your employer sends that part of your payment directly to the appropriate government agencies. As for other deductions, you approve your employer to handle that as your agent. But your compensation is based on the $20.50 pay. Around here, if I buy a pair of 29.95 blue jeans, they cost 32.05. For the record, though, the $15 dollars an hour, when they reach that much, will still have taxes and deductions taken out.

Part of my deductions is what I have to pay for medical benefits. So when you state "As for other deductions, you approve your employer to handle that as your agent." the same goes for those who think they need to be making $15/hr as minimum wage. And once again, that is way to high for minimum wage. There are businesses that have had to shut down because of this $15/hr minimum wage because they can't afford to pay their employees that and keep their services at the same cost. I guarantee you will start seeing a Big Mac meal costing $10-12 by doing this. If people want to make more than $7/hr, then they need to get an actual career, and not expect to be handed everything just working the bare minimum.

That's a crock of shit and you know it. McDonald's actually tested that with their wages where they gave their employees raises. http://fortune.com/2016/03/09/mcdonalds-wages/. I looked into this a lot deeper when they first announced it. Besides, if the cost of everything else is going up, why not the cost of labor. It costs time and money to train people for competence.

It isn't a crock of shit, it is fact. A pizza shop in Oregon closed its doors after changing to a $15/hr minimum wage. Could afford to keep the doors open. Now go back and reread your article. They raised it to only $9.90 from $9.01, $6 less than the $15 people want it at. It also only effects 10% of the employees. So the only crock of shit here is you and your article.

It don't take time and money to train competence, it takes someone with an IQ higher than the average 5th grader. The problem is those who think they deserve $15/hr to flip burgers are just lazy and only want to work for 20 hours instead of 40 hours to make the same wage.

How long was that Pizza shop in business? How good of a business manager was the owner? I know of a little Italian place around the corner from here that closed it's doors after Seattle raised it's minimum wage: should I place the blame on that? It wouldn't make much sense as I live in Northern Indiana. If it was a failed business that tanked after having to raise employee wages, then it wasn't run very well. 20% of all new businesses close their doors during the first year. By year 5, 1/2 have closed up. By year ten, only 1/3 of those businesses are still in operation. Usually, by that time, if it closes, it is usually the owner that has retired and couldn't find a buyer, not even in their own family. I can think of at least a Dozen businesses that closed because of that. One in my own family. But for any business to remain successful, it falls on the management.

There's about 80 years of data that says raising the minimum wage doesn't hurt the business community as much as people claim. But poor business management will cause the doors to close. Seattle passed their current minimum wage law on May 1, 2014. How long did business owners have to plan for that? Until April 1, 2015. 11 months. 11 months isn't a long time for major corporations, but for a small business owner, it's a long time.Time to plan, time to look at options. Maybe change a supplier here, can I cut this job there, change the personnel or job descriptions? A lot depends on commitment of the owner. How much time does he spend at the casino on the reservation? (I've seen a few businesses tank because of that)

The minimum wage was originally set to provide the minimum wages a person could live on.

The pizza place was part of a big franchise. This means they already had a set standard for what the cost of food would have to be. So when you double or nearly double employee wages, the money has to come from somewhere. So it is either cut hours or raise cost of products. I know more about business success rates than you, as I use to be a small business owner myself so this is something I have studied. So don't think you can try to school me on that when you can't grasp the simple concept of doubling wages requires the money to come from some place.

In 80 years of research, how many times did the minimum wage almost double in 1 years time? ZERO! Yes increases in wages does improve economy as it causes people to spend more as they make more. But once again, you double their wages and business will have to increase the cost of their products. Denmark pays their Burger King employees $15/hr and their Whopper meals are $11.

You are confused as to what the minimum wage was actually created for. It wasn't for what they could live on but set the standard of living for the employee. This was important in the 1930s with the Great Depression to prevent business owners from paying $0.10/hr (essentially creating slaves) to make more money for themselves. So by minimum wage setting the standard of living for the employee, that means they will still have to budget accordingly. So someone on minimum wage should expect to be able to but a 1,200 sqft home, a new car every 3-5 years, a new iphone every year, premium cable, gigabit internet, a boat, and anything else you can think of. But just for you, I will start working on the cost of living for every state and I will also figure out what the minimum wage for every state should be and break it down to the point that the basics are covered for someone to live on, to prove $15/hr is not required for minimum wage.

FIrst, let's throw out that bullshit about the minimum wage being $15 an hour. Unless Congress, and the president approve an even higher minimum wage between then and now, Portland won't see a $15 minimum wage until 2023. Today the minimum wage in Portland is $11.25. If the pizza place chose to pay their employees $15 an hour, at this time, that was poor business management. But it was their choice.

The minimum wage has never doubled, since it's creation. It's stagnated, but never doubled. This is the propagandist, yellow journalism that permeates our society with the cries of fake news.

I'm curious about which franchise pizza shop went under. Why? You fail to realize part of my wide work experience was in food service, including franchises. Corporate offices don't like it when their franchisee's go under. It makes it difficult to sell new franchises. Before it got raided in the 80's, Ponderosa would look at how their franchises were doing. They sent teams to help the franchisee get back on track, and, if unable to do that, would buy back the franchise from the franchisee. That a pizza franchiser would allow one of their franchisees go under because of having to raise wages shows that entire company may be on the ropes.

Overall, the restaurant business has NOT been hurt in Seattle. If anything, there are more restaurants today than 10 years ago.

Your complaint is minimum wages are too high? Like anything, it's a cost of doing business. Let's look at what the man, FDR, responsible for creating it had to say: “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

He also foreshadowed the Walmarts and Fast Food joints when he said, “Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry.” (1938, Fireside Chat, the night before signing the Fair Labor Standards Act that instituted the federal minimum wage) Mind you, this was decades before Johnson's Great Society that expanded the welfare program.

Seattle's minimum wage 7 years ago was $3 less than what it is today. $1.50 was just last year. Are you telling me that in those 7 years you never saw the cost of products go up? Or that you don't think that the wage increase of employees is a factor in this? Has it changed in 10 years on how to make a big mac? But yet I would bet the price has doubled to buy one in that time period. Why is that? It is all a cause and effect, chicken or the egg.

FYI, the entire rest of your comment can be summed up in 1 sentence I have already made, "This was important in the 1930s with the Great Depression to prevent business owners from paying $0.10/hr (essentially creating slaves) to make more money for themselves." I don't need you to give me a history lesson in what the minimum wage is for, why it was created, or anything else when I have already explained it to you.

I've seen the cost of products go up, but I don't live in Seattle. I live in Indiana. So this is not just a Seattle problem. Keeping minimum wage stagnant, as is constantly being done, does not allow those workers to keep up with the cost of living. Washington State has had their minimum wage tied into the consumer price index since 2001. Seattle may seem more aggressive, but the caveats in there are for the promotion of small businesses, not the Major corporations. Why is that? Local businesses pour money back into the community: in taxes, in employment, in the entire community. Many Urban areas have a higher cost of living than rural areas. One reason that Seattle has seen to give local entrepreneurs a break. Big Mac July 2007 3.41, today it is $4.71. Minimum wage at that time was $5.85 around the country. it has stayed at $7.25 (fed) since 2009. The Big Mac in 2009 was $3.57. If Labor costs were the sole driving force for the price, it would still be $3.57. The previous President of McDonalds threatened years ago that if the cost of labor went up a Big Mac would go up to, IIRC, $10. right after that, he got a multi-million dollar bonus. Interestingly enough, that bonus didn't affect the cost of a Big Mac. But, if you read the Fortune magazine article about them raising the wages across the country, you'll see that it affected their bottom line for the better. They even added five days a year paid vacation that they didn't offer before. Have you any restaurant experience. I have. Ever wonder why so many fast food workers seem like they don't know what they're doing? It's because they don't know what they're doing. Low wages in any industry leads to high turnover rates, so every time you walk into one of their stores, you have employees that lack training and experience. They don't know what they're doing. Something I discovered years ago when working on the corporate restructuring of Ponderosa's business model at their meat packing plant, this was brought to our attention early on. The cost of training a new employ is their wage plus the wage of the trainer. Two people doing one job. This causes orders to be messed up, food being prepared improperly, and one case, where experienced workers pointed out a problem that the company ignored, cost 1/2 million in recalled meat plus overtime to replace that product. When you talk a profit based on the difference of 1/1000 of a cent, that can add up.

as for the comment made back in the 1930's, that holds effective today, as well. Let's pick on John Shnattner who promotes keeping the minimum wage low and hours less than full time. His networth is around $1 billion, lives in a huge mansion where he holds fund raisers for politicos. Remember back in 2012, he was caught telling a room full of franchisees that they needed to hire only part time workers to avoid having to offer them the same benefits as a full time worker. When the ACA went into effect, he even cut their hours, yet raised the cost of pizza 14¢ to cover it. Funny thing was that nobody new was covered. The people that had health insurance, full time workers, were already covered under a group policy.

You have to recall businessman Henry Ford didn't believe in paying workers 10¢ an hour. He started out paying $5/day. His reasoning was what good is making a consumer product that his own employees couldn't afford.

So I thought it was Oregon, but it was Seattle, so I deleted my last comment. It was ZPizza, which the lady that closed down her shop did it not because she had to move today to $15/hr, but because her small little shop is considered part of a bigger franchise, she was only given 2 years to increase to $15, not 7 like other small businesses. http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/04/30/pizza-shop-worker-loves-seattles-new-15-minimum-wage-finds-cost-job/ This tells the story of what took place. If you watch the video you will hear that she said she had to fire 1 person, cut hours, increase product cost, just to support the $11/hr minimum wage. What you constantly ignore and won't get thru your skull is that no matter how long you take to do it, whether it is immediately or 7 years, product costs will increase to cover the new wage.

"The minimum wage has never doubled, since it's creation. It's stagnated, but never doubled. This is the propagandist, yellow journalism that permeates our society with the cries of fake news." The point I am making, that you can't seem to understand, is that in many areas raising the minimum wage to $15/hr will be nearly doubling what it currently is, if not doubling it. The Fight for 15 wants that minimum wage now, even though they have been accepting of areas saying they will do it in 3-5 years. So IF it was done today across the board, it would be doubling it in many areas. That is what I have been saying that you don't want to accept or understand.

"That a pizza franchiser would allow one of their franchisees go under because of having to raise wages shows that entire company may be on the ropes." You don't understand what it means to be part of a franchise. If I had the money, I could buy a Pizza Hut, Jimmy Johns, or any other big franchise restaurants, but essentially I am buying only their name and their system and making sure that this restaurant is successful requires me to do the work. The corporation would not bail me out, because they expect me to pay in a monthly payment to keep the franchise name. So if I can't find ways to keep the restaurant up and going, it is on me not them.

"Your complaint is minimum wages are too high?" Quote me where I said current minimum wage is too high.

A couple things that KIRO didn't bother telling you. It's now Ian's Pizza (https://www.yelp.com/biz/ians-pizza-on-the-hill-seattle) Z's must be a west coast Pizza chain because I never heard of it around here. The problem they had starting up? There was a shortage of Pizza cooks in Seattle at the time.

As for the doubling, this is what's known as kicking the can down the road. Remember a few years ago when congress decided that the minimum wage didn't need to be raised to $9 and hour 4 years ago? So the welder says, "Why should I be a welder if I can make the same thing at McDonalds." He tells that to his boss and either he heads out the door to apply at McD's or his boss raises his wages. My daughter's housemate had a similar problem when she was director of nursing at a local nursing home. CNAs would apply for work, told what their wages would be, and said, Thanks but no thanks.They went to work at Burger King, making more. Why was BK paying more. Low wages lead to low performance. I had a Looong talk with the franchise owners because I was a dissatisfied customer. (I said I had experience with franchises. And not just as a customer) They were always understaffed by low motivated workers and turnover was high. Always has been in low paying jobs, especially restaurants. When McD's did their wage increase experiment, they saved a bundle on training. Instead of always training a new person on this or that, people hung around long enough to become proficient at the job.

You don't have to say it directly: your argument/thesis on minimum wage being too high is clear. You obviously have never looked into purchasing a franchise. Franchises are popular among investors because they are "Turn Key" businesses. When I was with Big Boy back in the 70's, the owner of the local franchise showed me just one of his manuals on running his store. Even down to the number of French Fries to put on a plate. The front office has a tight grasp on their franchisees. You know those "Secret shopper" ads you always see? Back then, Big Boy had their own, and they went all over the country evaluating the various franchisees. That name you think is all you buy isn't limited to just a name, but an operation. That's why the Big Mac in Denver tastes the same as the Big Mac in Florida or Washington. Before you think about investing, learn about what it takes to own a franchise.

Here I will make it simple. I found a nice little website. www.livingwage.mit.edu Here you can choose a state, county, and even city and find out what the cost of living is there. So lets take the cost of living at what is one of the highest ranking states currently, Connecticut. Based off of typical spending, according to the site, a required income for an individual is $26,015, which based on a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks is $12.51/hr. However I can make this lower. It states the current minimum wage is $9.60 an hour, so by simply changing 1 item I can come within $1 of that. The site is using an average for rent on housing, $845.50 a month, however it is possible to find apartments for $500 in Connecticut (using Zillow.com) which brings the salary down to $22,015 or $10.59/hr. Now I am fairly sure I could go through each one of their categories and be able to cut expenses down and come up with similar results. To do this to 1 category, lets look at 2 adults. If both adults were to work, even each taking a minimum wage job, calculating the percentage difference the chart has between 1 and 2 adults, the required minimum salary to support both adults based off of reducing housing comes out to $34,855. With both adults working a minimum wage job at $10.59/hr rate, they would have a combined income of $44,054.40 giving them a surplus of $9,199.40.

I will have some fun here and do #1 Hawaii. The site states $31,143, so $14.97/hr. Zillow tells me I can find an apartment in Hawaii for $800 a month, dropping the housing by $5k. So now $26,143. So now we are at $12.57/hr which is only $2.57 above the current minimum wage of $10/hr and still less than the $15/hr. I am sure I could do a lot more research and cut spending even more and get closer to the $10/hr, but I think my point is made.

Minimum wage should not be determined by the quality of life the individuals want, but should determine the standard by which they should live. People shouldn't demand more if they are not willing to work for more.

So tell me again why minimum wage should be $15/hr or $31,200 annually for flipping burgers and stocking shelves.

actual apartment for rent in Honolulu. BTW, next time you put a link, put the real one. http://livingwage.mit.edu/ there is not www in the address.

I can't figure out why you would use Connecticut in a discussion about Washington State. Or why you used the $15/hour rate. At this time, in Seattle, that is the rate of a semi-skilled employee. The minimum wage is currently $11.00 an hour in Seattle. I use reality to

Anyway, as the discussion is about Seattle, let's take a look at what the cost of living is really like there. I used Zillow and found a 1 BR apartment for $850 a month. Not sure as to square ft, it didn't say, but that comes to $10,200 Housing should cost a single worker (most likely to be paid minimum wage) $11,750, which factoring in utilities and renters insurance, you may fall a little short but within a decent fudge factor. However, the amount for a minimum wage worker in Seattle to need is $26,720. IF their employer gives them a full 40 hour work week, that gives them an annual income of $22,880. Still a shortfall of $4,000+. Next year, large employers will have to pay the $15/hr, but a large percentage of the employers will not have to pay the $15/hr until 2021.

So it is only 320 sqft. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. Like I said before, minimum wage should NEVER be dictated by what you want your living conditions to be. It was created and designed for what your minimum living conditions should be.

"BTW, next time you put a link, put the real one." I just realized that this morning, it was like 1 am when I did it last night and didn't realize the mistake at the time.

"I can't figure out why you would use Connecticut in a discussion about Washington State. Or why you used the $15/hour rate. At this time, in Seattle, that is the rate of a semi-skilled employee. The minimum wage is currently $11.00 an hour in Seattle. I use reality to " Well if you actually read my comment, you would see I used Connecticut because it is one of the highest ranked states in cost of living. This isn't just a discussion about Washington State, it is about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr. THAT IS WHY I KEEP STATING $15/HR!!!!! Are you really that dense you can't understand that?

I found a 1 bed 1 bath 350sqft apartment in Seattle, that when including utility cost, is $800 a month. IF you adjust the living expenses, which you didn't, at $800 per month, that makes it $24,570 for the cost of living. The chart also did averages, which means other items can be less if the person budgets correctly. But at $24,570, that is $11.81 per hour, which means a $1685 difference roughly. Even if the employer doesn't give them 40 hours, they have the option to get a second job to get the full 40 hours.

"Next year, large employers will have to pay the $15/hr, but a large percentage of the employers will not have to pay the $15/hr until 2021." Actually some of those large employers had to already do that, others don't have to do it for another 3 months. For employers with 500 employees or less (that is not part of a big franchise) some have until 2019 while others have until 2021. But you are still talking about $1 per year for 4 years. That will cause the cost of ALL PRODUCTS to significantly go up. I guarantee we will be seeing $11 big mac meals before too long to compensate for the increase in wages.

"Wanna go do karate in my dad's garage"?

LOL. Had to google the reference. I don't watch a lot of movies. Let's hold off on the swordfight, though.

A good point. I compared this with gold several years ago and discovered that a minimum wage worker in 1964 made more in gold than a chemical engineer in 2014. A minimum wage earner working 40 hours a week made the equivilant of 67.7 troy ounces of gold a year. A chemical engineer in 2014 was worth the equivilant of 68.24 troy ounces of gold the same year. In 1964, they were valued at about 173 troy ounces. While the price of Gold has gone up since 1970, you'd think that a highly skilled profession like that would have come a lot closer to the 1964 level. The low minimum wage allows employers to keep all other wages lower. Calculate how much your career earned in "64 and compare it to today's salary.

"I've seen the cost of products go up, but I don't live in Seattle. I live in Indiana." Here is another big problem about you. You say that restaurants are growing around you when we talked about Seattle's minimum wage. WHAT THE F**K makes you think Seattle's minimum wage is ever going to effect something that happens in another f**king state? You sir are f**king retarded.

"Minimum wage at that time was $5.85 around the country. it has stayed at $7.25 (fed) since 2009." Talk about a crock of shit. Seattle minimum wage (since you don't like talking about other areas since you claim this is a discussion only about Seattle) was $8.55 in 2009. So how could it be only $5.85 around the country when there were clearly other areas in which it was higher? Regardless of what the federal minimum wage has been since 2009, that doesn't matter. Each state and area have the ability to make their own minimum wage. The federal minimum wage standard was set so that no state, county, or city could get away with paying a minimum wage less than that of the federal minimum wage. There were always a high and a minimum and the employer was required to pay the highest. So if in 2009 someone happened to have a $5.85 minimum wage in 2009, with the federal being $7.25, the employer was required to pay the federal rate.

"right after that, he got a multi-million dollar bonus. Interestingly enough, that bonus didn't affect the cost of a Big Mac." Do you realize bonuses are figured after profit is figured, not before. It would be hard for him to take a multi-million dollar bonus if only $200,000 profit was made world wide (exaggerating here a bit).

"The cost of training a new employ is their wage plus the wage of the trainer. Two people doing one job. This causes orders to be messed up, food being prepared improperly," Yea it is called overhead. Every business has a set amount in their overhead budget to use for training. But yet I have seen orders get messed up and food not prepared properly when someone isn't being trained. It is called incompetence.

Here is a little lesson in business for you. In order to figure out the cost of the product you have to factor in 1) the cost of the material to make it, 2) the cost of the equipment to make it (including maintenance), 3) the cost of the employee to make it, 4) the cost of the supervisor to be there, 5) the cost of insurance for the business and the employees, 6) the cost of the franchise fee (if applicable) 7) the cost of utilities, 8) profit margin, 9) all other overhead costs (anything that will not be applicable to making the product). You start increasing the cost of any of that, and you will be looking at the cost of the product to go up. So when the cost of the Big Mac was $3.57 in 2009, and in 2015 it was $4.79, I guarantee there was in increase in at least half of those items I listed that accounts for the $1.22 increase in the same meal. Today the Big Mac is $5.30. So we see that an increase of $2.45 an hour from 2009 to 2017 had an impact of a product that raised $1.73 in the same time period. Because people want the minimum wage to go up another $4.00, I can easily predict a $3.00 increase in a Big Mac, making it at least $8.30, and depending on the increase of everything else in that little list of things I made, it could easily go up more.

"Let's pick on John Shnattner..." You are now not even talking about wages, but now comparing the integrity of the business owners. That has nothing to do with this entire discussion. However I will say this. If someone didn't want to work part time there, I am sure that any place that there is a Papa Johns there is at least a Pizza Hut if not a number of other restaurants in the area, and probably about 10 other businesses (minimum) hiring. And just because the full time employees were already covered by a company insurance plan, I will bet that their insurance plan went up for both the employee and the employer because of the ACA, which can factor into the 14¢ increase.

"Z's must be a west coast Pizza chain because I never heard of it around here." Z's is a big franchise in California. Not so many in other states, right now just 1 in Kennewick Washington, as far as being close to Seattle. You do realize Seattle is in a west coast state, so it doesn't make any sense to say that it must be a west coast pizza chain as to why you never heard of it, if you know so much about Seattle.

"As for the doubling, this is what's known as kicking the can down the road. Remember a few years ago when congress decided that the minimum wage didn't need to be raised to $9 and hour 4 years ago?" Once again you are not making any sense because minimum wage was not $4.50 an hour. As far as the rest of that, why would a skilled worker take a job making less than that of an unskilled worker?

"That name you think is all you buy isn't limited to just a name, but an operation." Now you are just deliberately trying to piss me off because you are not f**king reading my whole f**king comment. "If I had the money, I could buy a Pizza Hut, Jimmy Johns, or any other big franchise restaurants, but essentially I am buying only their name AND THEIR SYSTEM and making sure that this restaurant is successful requires me to do the work." Their system is their operation. F**king dumbass. Just because you buy their system (or operation as you have to put it to change my words) it still requires that YOU properly implement it to make it work. YOU also have to pay in a certain amount each month to keep the franchise. They don't care if you made money or lost money, they still require that you pay them. So don't tell me I don't know shit about what it means to buy into a franchise. All you are f**king doing is changing my words to try to make it seem like you know more, when you clearly don't.

"That's why the Big Mac in Denver tastes the same as the Big Mac in Florida or Washington." And yet didn't I make a comment that how the Big Mac was made hasn't changed? Do you not know how to f**king read?

Like I said, I hadn't heard of it. I was not being facetious on that. I had never heard of it because I haven't been to the west coast in over 20 years. Googling it, they didn't incorporate until 1999. Local franchises are nothing new. It's just odd that the California Z Pizza shops haven't had to close down because of higher wages. Oh well, California is an expensive place to live.

Of course I'm trying to piss you off. I do that to idiots that talk out their asses. You obviously don't know shit about the subject, where I not only have "book learning" but actual experience. Uh, since you make so much money, why haven't you bothered. I'm sure if you needed a loan, your bank would be happy to write it up.

I'm curious how long she had her franchise. so I decided to take a look. About 5 years. Why was the higher wage hurting the business. because there wasn't enough business. Blogger Nicole Dieker followed up right after KIRO had done their story. When she went by around dinner time, she noticed it was empty. Neighboring Pizza spot, Hot Mama's was packed. Dieker wasn't impressed with the pizza apparently, as she'd only eaten there one time. If I like a pizza, I'll frequent the place more than once in 5 years. That shows more a management problem, lousy pizza in a highly competitive area. KIRO would have done well to interview other restaurants as well. I know more have opened, and closed, since then.

Thanks, it's been so much fun playing. Suggest you wait until after you finish high school and actually get in the job market, though, before you start discussing wages instead of passing along your parents' thoughts.

All you f**king did is take half my comments and reword them to try to tell me the exact same thing I had just told you. So don't be trying to play it off as if you know shit about anything. I have studied business for years, just not in school, because why would I need to when I have had personal experience in owning my own business?

"Dieker wasn't impressed with the pizza apparently, as she'd only eaten there one time." Who gives a f**k what 1 blogger thinks of the pizza. That 1 person doesn't determine the entire success of the place. IF you actually did any real reading into the story, you would know that the owner closed down not because they were doing poorly business-wise, but because she had to figure out a way to increase wages by 58% in 2 years. She would have been able to do it in 7 years like all other small businesses, but not 2 years. There is a huge difference. Ian's Pizza has less than 500 employees in the entire franchise, so they have 7 years to gradually increase their prices to account for the 58% wage increase. But for a small place to do the same in 2 years is not fair to the customers or the employees. Man you are f**king retarded.

So how about instead of sitting in your grandma's basement trying to be a f**king keyboard warrior and changing what everyone else says when you reply to them to make yourself seem smart, you grow the f**k up and get an actual education.

"A couple things that KIRO didn't bother telling you." FYI, I give you a f**king link to the story of the pizza place I was referring to, which was a story by Q13 News, not KIRO. So just because the story may be different about a different pizza joint, that don't mean f**king shit. You bitch and moan about me using Connecticut as an example for living wage and don't understand why, so I will do the same about your f**king bullshit. Why the f**k would you mention KIRO news referring to a completely different story than the one I mentioned?