College Liberal

Wouldn't mind finding out how they feel.

I believe the free college education deal has to do with community colleges not the ivy league colleges.

No, I meant collage... As in art of pictures

Ha! I read it as college too.

Yeah, I think community colleges should be free. In return we have slightly higher taxes. It will be worth it in the long run, as we give more opportunities for people to get good jobs and get a decent education. It shouldn't apply for colleges like Yale and Harvard, though, because that would be unrealistic. I'm not quite sure why people are so against it. But then again, this is the country voting for Donald Trump to be President.

How about cheap work-your-way-through voc-tech to improve our workforce? In that vague sense he kinda sorta has the right idea.

Do you think before you speak? Free college education is only referring to state runned schools, NOT private universities/colleges. I was able to get the first two years of my education for free because of my state's Education Lottery program. It was great! It allowed me to get two great years of education without putting myself into debt, earn an associates degree, and gave me the ability to easily transfer for a four-year university to finish my bachelor's degree. Not only that, but I was able to work long hours those first two years and save up money before transferring, and I was able to pay for my university in CASH.

I walked out of college without needing one student loan and I graduated debt-free.

Imagine if everyone in the country was offered such a chance? Sure, not everyone will work as hard as I did to pay for my last two years of school, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't want to give others a similar chance. Education is important, because it helps us to think. Denying education to millions is a lose-lose situation in America, and it's something we need to correct immediately. We are one of the DUMBEST first-world countries, and I don't think it takes rocket science to figure out the problem.

It's funny that you try to troll me, when your "point" about how free college isn't referring to private universities/colleges is EXACTLY the point I was making. Pay attention next time before you attack me bud.

Do you even understand the point I was making? Some of your liberal brethren think that the "free college" bernie is offering will enable them to attend major universities for free. Not my problem that you can't comprehend a joke, nor is their ignorance my problem "lorddisco". "Education is important", wow thanks Captain Obvious, I'm not arguing against the importance of education. Bernie Sanders is promising things he can't fulfill and keeps throwing the word "free" around to get votes.

But do you think it's justifiable for a university to charge $10K+ a year for someone to get a higher education? That garbage is insane. The prices of colleges in the US has risen tremendously over the last 20 years, and it is only getting worse. When I graduated 11 years ago, I paid $3000 for the whole year at my university (CCU). Now, it is $11,000 a year for in-state and $26,000 a year for out-of-state. Is that how we want to keep education important? Or is this obviously a means of trying to squeeze every ounce of money from people's pockets, purposely put them in debt, so that the loaners and schools end up making a crap-ton of money?

Look at it this way. If public colleges and two-year schools become free or very cheap, private schools will have to lower their prices to be more attractive to those leaving their school for a cheaper and more-than-likely equal education. Public schools become free or close to, private schools become cheaper, and everyone wins in the end. How is that not good?

One of our neighbors got free college courses from our state and attended a two year community college. Every two years she changed her major so she and her two kids could keep getting state aid. Everything from the free education to food stamps and financial aid for her kids. She kept abusing the system until her kids were eighteen. I don't see how handing something to someone means that they will appreciate it. College education would be more important to a person if they earned it and paid for it themselves. On the other hand lower rates and interest on student loans is something that I would back.

Truly, it should be an affordable amount that we have to pay, while tax money pays for the rest. That way, people can't abuse the system, and people who really want an education can do so without going into debt.

The current system in America is awful, and the amount of money my university is charging now per semester is insane. When I went to college over 10 years ago, it was like $3000 a year at CCU. Now, it's $10,000 a year in state and $24,000 a year out of state. That's insane! You can't tell me they aren't taking advantage of people and the system now.

I definitely don't mind the idea of paying for it, but $10,000 a year? That's just stupid.

It's unconstitutional to tax Americans for a country-wide college fund. Just like how forcing Americans to pay for Obamacare is unconstitutional.

Unconstitutional? Please show me where this is. Also, show me where it justifies spending $600 billion in taxes to pay for the most overpowered military in the world? Where does the constitution justify spending over $2 TRILLION dollars on the Iraq War, a raw unjustified about America's own Just War Doctrine.

But go ahead and tell me how much Obamacare is destroying this country and putting us in debt. (BTW, I hate Obamacare. haha)

Dude I'm completely against the Iraq War and the trillions Bush spent on it. One reason I support Trump is because he was against the Iraq war from the beginning and attacked Jeb and W at the debates:

https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ

Obamacare is a complete disaster. I've been to the dentist and doctor recently, and both told me my medical expenses would be cheaper WITHOUT insurance. I've heard nothing but negative feedback on obamacare and how it's affected people's lives in a bad way. People can't even keep their same doctor like obama promised we could. Why should I get fined for not having insurance when it won't help me because the deductibles have skyrocketed?

Don't get me wrong, Obamacare is a mess, but something had to be done. Obamacare is at least making it very obvious that American medical insurance is BAD. Capitol B - A - D, BAD. Nowhere on the planet charges as much as America for medical and medical insurance, and it is insane how big of a difference it is. American private insurance companies charge an arm-and-a-leg for "good" health insurance that doesn't even guarantee that you'll be covered. That's some Grade-A BS. Obamacare was supposed to eliminate some of those bad qualities about American medical, but sadly (And quite obviously), it has screwed things up all the more. That is that, and it's about time for a single-payer healthcare system in America, as the whole system is awful and needs to get reset. Once again, we are all paying way too much for much of nothing.

As for Trump on the Iraq War, he is on record for saying he supported it before we invaded, but of course, recanted his own words very quickly upon realizing (Like most of the country) that it was a huge mistake. I'm one of these people too, and I'm sure you might have been as well. Stakes were high, and manipulation was expertly done back then to make it sound like we absolutely had to go into Iraq to stop them. But of all the current candidates, Bernie Sanders is the only one that genuinely stood against it from the beginning and even voted against it. Trump, not being a politician, doesn't have any legal records outside of supporting anything that came out of Hillary's mouth back then (Since he supported her from around that point), and Hillary was definitely for the invasion initially as well.

I know Trump has changed his position on certain issues, but I don't know that he really ever supported the Iraq war. I was in favor of the initial attack against Afganistan, but was against the invasion of Iraq. Like you said there was heavy manipulation of truth from the bush administration and it was a very cloudy situation. The establishment and the Bush family clearly hate Trump for a reason though. Trump has even accused the Bush family of having criminal connections to the Bin Ladens.

The fact that Trump has changed his mind on certain issues and admitted to doing so I believe is a good thing. People in search of the truth never close their mind and are always open to new knowledge that may impact their overall thinking on a specific issue. Many politicians are close minded. The great thing about Trump is that he's not a politician by trade. He speaks his mind whether people like it or not and that's very refreshing in this day and age. I won't defend everything he's said, but his point about political correctness needing to end is refreshing. Some liberals are so worried about being "pc", they think standing up to something as evil as sharia law is somehow "intolerant". Trump isn't the nicest guy ever, but I think that his attitude of not taking any shit and speaking his mind is what America needs right now. Getting back to healthcare, I also believe his plan will begin to make things right.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform

I don't think Trump scaring both sides is a problem. Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders do the exact same thing. The problem lies outside America, because remember, the President represents the country to the world, and as of right now, Trump is HATED by most of the world. Europe can't believe he's even an option, Mexico has expressed their disdain numerous times, China, Korea, and Japan can't believe some of the stuff he has said about their countries, and he's done all of this and then some before even becoming president. He's a loose cannon, and in a lot of ways, that truly is scary.

And I don't think he's transparent at all. He's a gaslighter, just like Dick Cheney in a lot of ways. He lies so strongly and so confidently that it makes people second-guess reality, and that's very, very dangerous. Look no further than the Iraq War to see how a over-confident lie turned into something horrific. I'm not saying Trump will do the same thing, but imagine if he starts a Holy War with Islam based on ideas like "35% of Muslims would go to war" with the US. I honestly just don't know what to expect, and that's a bit dangerous. With people like Ron Paul and Sanders, I know exactly what to expect (Although Congress wouldn't let either of them do the things they really want to do).

And lastly, Trump has been funded heavily by outside sources, and one of the lies surrounding his "self-funded" idea is that his company gave a ton of money as a tax write-off to his campaign. Sure, that's kind of "self-funded", but he's expecting to play the system and get a lot (If not all) of that money back.

It's all very sketchy, and honestly, voting for Hillary or Trump is just terrible. They both suck. haha

My problem with Trump, if I haven't mentioned before, is the very same reason I don't like Hillary. Untrustworthy, constantly lies about just about anything, and he has had his hand in politics for a very, very long time. Trump and Bill Clinton are really good friends, even to this day. Neither of them want you to know that now, for whatever corrupt and goofy reason, but Trump is on record calling Bill numerous times and meeting with him before announcing his candidacy just last year. That's very sketchy to me, and it really bothers me that they are both pretending to hate each other now when he whole-heartedly supported Hillary for years, and she obviously accepted every bit of it. And again, Trump is friends with Bill, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Trump's character, like Hillary's, just rubs me the wrong way, and I can't ever find it in my heart to support him as a candidate, just like there is NO WAY I'll ever support Hillary and her garbage campaign.

I kind of liked Kasich and thought he would be a decent candidate for the Republicans, as his moderate position might hit closer to home with the average American, and although I disagree with Sanders on a lot of things, I like his attitude and his genuine desire to help the poor and middle-class. Sadly, neither of those two are getting the candidacy, so it's like a 95% chance it'll be Trump VS Hillary, which just goes right back to my first point; they are connected. Ugh.

I just don't know what to think of this election anymore. It's a mess.

You have to remember that Trump is a businessman first and foremost. He's admitted to using the laws of the land to his advantage, (filing chapter 11s, outsourcing jobs etc.), and I don't think it's too far fetched that Trump used his "friendship" with the Clintons to his advantage.

One of the key things I like about Trump is that he's self-funded. Bernie Sanders seems like a good dude, but you don't know whose agenda he might be working for from people in the shadows funding his campaign. Hillary is a microcasm of everything that's wrong with politicians and the government in general. She lies, cheats, commits acts that would land a normal person in prison. With Trump you get self-transparency at least IMO. If Trump was trying to deceive the public, I don't think he would be pushing such controversial issues at this point. It seems like what you see is what you get with Trump. He can't be controlled by money like all these politicians. I don't think the founding fathers intended for everyone in our government to be "career politicians" per se, I believe they wanted people like Trump who truly speak their mind and aren't working for sketchy lobbyists and people in the shadows paying for their agenda to be implemented. Trump isn't corruptable like all of the career politicians who have brought this country to the brink of collapse. If you look at the fact that democrats, the media, and even most republicans hate Trump, I think that shows how truly anti-establishment he is and that scares both sides.

Free college is stupid because it removes the value of learning. I would rather see colleges that give FREE tuition & board in EXCHANGE for WORK. There is a college that has been doing this with great success, so it obviously works. Plus, with that system, only the people who actually worked hard and deserved their degree would get one.

FYI, I think that college is called college of the Ozark's (Not sure tbh though). The college runs a dairy/ice cream business that the students run in exchange for their tuition. The dairy in turn provides revenue for the college allowing them to pay their bills.

I hear you. I've been to College of the Ozarks and I think the model is a great one that more colleges should adopt... Main downside is the very competitive admission (only a 9% acceptance rate).

It does seem like both plans are kinda shitty...

Amen

The point is both are plans that rely on "someone else" to pay for them.

It always takes someone else to pay for things that make society better....bernie just wants to use tax money to actually go towards things that matter. And not subsidizing millionaires and billionaires and their folly on wall street.

-I do think we should eliminate tax subsidies.
-I think we should let businesses fail (that's what is supposed to happen in a free market when businesses aren't effectively fulfilling a need)
-My problem with "free" college is not in theory, but in practice. There are already government grants, which was supposed to make college affordable for those who couldn't afford it. Instead it caused the actual (not out of pocket) cost to skyrocket, so the government threw more money at it, costs went up more, ect. It became a cycle.
-College education does not do much to increase employability. Most employers are far more concerned with work history (which shows that you can show up on time, obey managers, stay at one job for at least a year, are reliable, ect.)
I only got an A.A. and I'm doing better than most if my -high school friends who got four year degrees because I worked while in community college (at a burger King) and understand that I am working for my employer, not the other way around.

Border wall is estimated to cost $25 billion.
The USA spends well over $500 billion per year on college tuition.

Even if the border wall was only five bucks, Mexico would not pay for it, and the U.S. has no authority to tax it. Even though I think "free" college will lead to soaring actual costs and over the long term will be unsustainable, the U.S. does have the authority to tax our citizens for it.

The money that illegals are sending back to their home countries will be seized, and thus used to pay for the wall. This is how Mexico will be paying for it because most illegals are from there.

The thing is, "someone else" pays regardless. That's just reality. But you actually might have a choice where it is spent, and when. Would you rather keep enabling corporate CEOs to give themselves ri-donkulous raises and bonuses? Or would you prefer helping those around you to get smarter, to be more employable, and thus have more ability to make more money than before? (Which would eventually LOWER the overall Tax Burden! Wow! Imagine that! More workers, more contributors, less per worker...just imagine.)

You might want to actually read the thread, as these issues have already been addressed by me.

Oh, I read it. I just don't subscribe to the typical fear and pessimism of the GOP. I think people are truly THAT pissed, that they'd demand every base would be covered, should Bernie push for free education. But you're right; a college education DOESN'T guarantee a good job. But a Trade School/Vocational School almost always DOES.

I think Bernie Sanders intimidates your Party, to be perfectly honest. He's smarter than you. He's more concerned about the people than you. He's got actual ideas that match our Developed World peers in good governance and common sense policies. And he will mop the floor with any candidate you put him up against. Your Party didn't back your actual contenders. You wound up with Trump. And now the Republicans are so proud and arrogant, they're trying to force a smile on their face and pretend he's their guy.

Only it's NOT pretend. It's the reality that is the TRUE BASE of the modern Republican Party. And if it doesn't shame you or humiliate you that people like these; both the candidates and the crowds that come to see them. You're just more confirmation that the GOP is dying.

Have a great night. :D

EXACTLY. And Bernie Sanders, (I) VT will NOT. And that's "where we're at" in America: 4 Choices; A rich, arrogant, sexist, and racist conman jackass...a self-righteous uptight loser that nobody's liked, in the history of ever in his life...An ambitious, lying bitch who will sell her soul (already has maybe?) to get the power of being Leader of the Free World (which is beginning to be questionable now, with leaders like Merkel doing bigger and better than America) And then you have a cranky, but highly intelligent older man with messed up hair, and great ideas he's already used in Vermont (that's something the GOP has NOT told you) and...holy crap...they actually WORKED.

This is America. Love it or leave it. And if that assclown gasbag Trump somehow does get elected? I'll be an expatriate so fast, you'd second-guess I was born here.