But Thats None Of My Business

But Thats None Of My Business Meme | IT'S EASY BEING PRO ABORTION WHEN YOU'RE SITTING THERE ALIVE AND WELL BUT THAT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS | image tagged in memes,but thats none of my business,kermit the frog | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
42,173 views, 115 upvotes, Made by SpursFanFromAround 29 months ago memesbut thats none of my businesskermit the frog
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15 ups, 2 replies
bless the little unborn babies :(
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0 ups
This meme has started a full scale war between the Imgflipers!
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15 ups, 4 replies
No kidding. I don't understand why some people passionately defend abortion either. There are things people care a lot about that I find silly, but being adamant that women have the right to have permiscous sex and murder their dependant, defenseless baby because they don't want the responsibility?! I wonder sometimes if it would be better for the baby to die than be raised by such a mother, but I find the practice murderous and monstrous.
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7 ups
Yeah. Well said man.
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1 up
Its not as simple as that though isit?
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3 ups, 3 replies
It's "promiscuous," and by even mentioning that you give away your true intent: controlling women's bodies. Are there any of your internal organs that you would cede control of to the government?
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10 ups, 1 reply
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0 ups, 1 reply
Guns are inanimate objects: they have no rights.
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1 up, 1 reply
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0 ups, 1 reply
Born women also have rights.
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1 up
They have ALL the rights. They shouldn't have the right to KILL.
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4 ups, 1 reply
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2 ups, 3 replies
Abortion is not murder. You may not like that, but it is a fact. There you go judging women for having sex. We all know that's what "pro-lifers" really care about, but you should be less obvious about it.
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2 ups
The illegitimate ending of a human life is murder.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Stop using blanket statements. You ALL don't know what ALL of us really care about. Because even among both sides of this debate everyone has different reasons.

And again ill say it because you've ignored it on every other reply.

Just because its law dorsnt make it right. And just because right now it is a legal ending to a life, does not make it less a murder.

DNA, living wills, death penalty, medical suicide through cessation of treatment.... These are all legal and considered morally excepted by the masses.... But it doesn't stop the fact that someone is making the choice to end a life... Their own or otherwise.

The difference is that in those cases, everyone had a say in their own death. Even the inmates knew that if they got caught for their crime they may be executed but still commuted the crime.
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1 up
"Murder" means something; it is a legal term. As long as the law says abortion is not murder, then it is not. If you want to say you believe it's murder, fine. Making declarative statements that are provably false does not forward a debate.
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[deleted]
0 ups, 1 reply
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0 ups
On imgflip, they do. :)
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0 ups, 2 replies
Men can be promiscuous as well. You argue that everyone wants to opreas and control women, but most proliferate I know are women and supportive fathers/husbands.

Debate with facts and opinions, not by attacking and you will get through to more people.
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1 up
Women can be just as judgmental of other women as men can. Being "pro-life" does control women, regardless of one's motivation. "Pro-life" women have abortions too.
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1 up
Omgoodness I hate my phone.

*wants to oppress and...... Most pro-lifers I know
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0 ups, 1 reply
Its joke not meant to be serious it just a meme.....
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5 ups, 1 reply
Actually, it is not a joke.
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1 up, 1 reply
Angelmc and britefish and invicta103 on another meme which was on this subject but not written as good as yours we had a little exchange. I took issue with the memes effilectiveness. They responded to my comment and said i was taking it personal. I was explaining the word usage. They laughed it off saying it was a joke and just a meme; that I missed the point. I was not speaking about your meme in this sense. Literally a day apart this happened.
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1 up
Fair enough.
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12 ups, 2 replies
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6 ups, 1 reply
This would be a great submission.
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4 ups, 1 reply
It would get less likes than it did here ;-p
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5 ups
You never know, man!
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[deleted]
4 ups
i think you should submit this
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11 ups, 2 replies
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19 ups, 4 replies
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9 ups
AWESOME comment!
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3 ups
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1 up, 1 reply
After the abortion...
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2 ups
Haha
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1 up
Ah, emotion. A common propaganda tool.
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15 ups, 1 reply
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1 up
Bahahaha haha nice comment!!
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11 ups, 4 replies
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13 ups, 2 replies
I agree, but it's also easier to be pro death penalty when the individual being put to death is being put to death because they violently **ped or murdered someone.
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8 ups, 1 reply
Oh, don't get me wrong. I definitely support the death penalty. I was just playing devil's advocate ;)
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3 ups, 1 reply
you didn't play it very well ;)
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2 ups, 1 reply
How so? :)
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4 ups, 1 reply
You compared a heartless killer, found guilty by our peers, to an unborn fetus.
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3 ups, 1 reply
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0 ups, 1 reply
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1 up
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6 ups, 1 reply
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2 ups
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2 ups
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2 ups
You can't be serious to even compare the two!
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1 up, 2 replies
I agree. I'm one who believes in redemption / second chances, so I'm not too sure about the death penalty. While I do find it to be understandable in some cases, I believe giving such a penalty should be avoided.
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3 ups, 1 reply
I actually think it can be WORSE punishment for a violent offender to be in SuperMax, than killed. Do you know what their days consist of? 23 hours a day in a cell alone. A shower every 3 days. Very, very basic supplies. No mags, movies, or TV. No good food. No smoke break. They get to walk in a small pen for an hour. That's it. Imagine doing that for the next 50-60 years of whatever's left of your life.

Some of these monsters WANT the death penalty. Easy way out. I think slow torture, being so isolated they start to go crazy, talking to themselves and shit is far worse than relieving their misery. Agree or disagree?

The only thing I can think to do that's worse, is add beatings for little to know reason at all. Tasers. Yeah. That would be worse than just killing them.
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3 ups, 1 reply
While I'll agree with you that a life in prison could be far worse than being put to death, I don't agree that that should be the punishment for violent offenders. It's a great strain on the tax payer's wallets to house inmates and I do not agree with having to pay for these people.

In my opinion, there are three crimes that warrant the death penalty. 1) First degree murder. 2) **pe 3) Sexual and physical abuse toward children, the elderly and the mentally handicapped.
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1 up, 1 reply
To support the death penalty, you must accept that innocent people will be killed. Killing innocent people is... murder. Right?
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1 up, 2 replies
You're right, sometimes innocent people are put to death. Innocent people all throughout history have been killed. I never said the death penalty is a perfect punishment, but it is a punishment nonetheless. You cannot compare the death penalty and abortion. They are not the same thing.
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0 ups, 1 reply
You are saying you are okay with murder in some cases. That means saying "abortion is murder" would not necessarily make you against it.
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2 ups, 1 reply
I didn't say I was okay with murder. I said I was okay with the death penalty as punishment. Then I said I know that the death penalty isn't a perfect system.

And you say killing a conscious person is far worse? Have you ever seen inside the womb while an abortion was being performed? I have. Andbots horrific. The child, whether you think so or not, is conscious through the whole thing.
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0 ups
That is simply not borne out by the scientific and medical knowledge we have.
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0 ups
I think killing a conscious born person is far worse than terminating a pregnancy, over 90% of which occur in the 1st trimester when the fetus has no feeling or self-awareness.
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1 up, 1 reply
Upvote :)
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2 ups, 1 reply
Liam Neeson & Christian Bale in one clip? Nice! The Dark Knight trilogy is one of my favorite movie series :) But yeah, it is something that is challenging to one (I.e. me) that has it. Anyways, an upvote to you as well :D
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2 ups
:D thanks!
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7 ups
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7 ups
Well said.
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[deleted]
7 ups, 1 reply
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2 ups
Actually lol. Upvote
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6 ups
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6 ups, 1 reply
Good meme.
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5 ups
I thought so. :)
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5 ups, 1 reply
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6 ups, 1 reply
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5 ups, 2 replies
Many mothers look like that after giving birth. I guess we should outlaw that too?
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4 ups, 1 reply
The difference is, if a mother doesn't take care of her kid, they can place the child in a New home. U cant place a fetus in a new womb.
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2 ups, 1 reply
The suggestion seems to be that women possibly regretting abortion is an argument for banning it. My point is banning all things people might regret would be ridiculous.
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3 ups, 1 reply
I saw where someone suggested regretting it. And I don't agree with that as a main arguement in this debate. But banning everything WOULD be ridiculous.

However pro-choice when it is unneccessary and could have been prevented ahead of time (Even a dang morning after pill to stop implantation before It starts to grow). I think there should be a.harder process to have abortions approved. Too many women AND men, believe they don't need to worry about birth control because an ajortio. Is cheaper, easier and AVAILABLE. If it wasn't so readily available maybe both sexes would start to act more decent and think of repercussions to their actions.
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0 ups
Just to clarify, "pro-choice" has nothing to do with someone's personal opinion of abortion. It simply means you don't think your personal opinion on abortion should dictate someone else's legal options. You can think abortion is awesome or horrible and still be pro-choice.
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2 ups
Haha :)
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6 ups, 1 reply
I have a couple similar memes that got instantly downvoted or stuck in sumbitted limbo. I'm glad yours got through.
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4 ups, 2 replies
Vegetarians don't eat meat, but they don't force you to live based on their beliefs. Sounds pretty consistent with "pro-choice" to me.
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3 ups, 1 reply
The point of the meme wasnt to force belief, but to question those beliefs.

Why is the animals life more important that a human baby's?

Also saying vegetarians as an entire group don't force beliefs isn't entirely true. No blanket statement, good or bad is true.

I've seen vegetarians who refuse to eat with friends or family who eat meat, throw paint on people, insist everyone make vegetarian only dishes and so forth... So some of them do force their beliefs.

I'm not putting vegetarians down. Just saying u can't use blanket statements in a debate.
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1 up, 2 replies
You specifically said, "you" won't eat meat. Now you are imbuing your example with traits beyond that. Someone simply "not eating meat" demands nothing of others.
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2 ups, 1 reply
I specifically said 'you won't eat meat 'CAUSE IT KILLS ANIMALS'

Sorry for the caps, wanted to make sure u saw that part because u didn't seem to see it before and it was the main reason for my meme.

I never demanded they change.
Why do you keep complaining about demands? We're all stating our opinions and your complaining about all of them because they go against the law as it stands now.

Well anyone that is an activist for change is against the law as it stands.
Your adamant stance of 'its not murder because its legal' is the same stance slave owners used because at the time 'it wasn't wrong because its legal'

I just don't are where your true opinion lies. If the laws were different I can't tell if you'd still be for abortion.
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1 up, 1 reply
I think abortion should be legal in all circumstances. When I say "abortion is legal," I am simply pointing out that claiming "abortion is murder" is factually incorrect.
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3 ups
No, it is murder, just legalized.

If u don't want kids that bad, get sterilized and save ur babies the pain of being cut apart or vacummed out of existence. Save a few eggs of u want kids in the future, adopt... Or use birth control in the first place.

But just because its legal, doesn't mean you aren't stopping a heart & brain from functioning.
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2 ups
I never said they demanded anything of anyone. I was just pointing out something I've observed. Some people are vegetarians for health reasons, food allergies or religious beliefs.

But a percentage of them don't eat meat purely because they don't want to take a life of an animal.

I don't understand how THOSE vegetarians can be pro choice. I can't fathom how an animal life means more on their moral scale then a human baby, who may not breathe air on its own yet, but has a heart beat and brain activity.

I didn't imbue my example with anything else... Just answering comments.

It seems you just want to argue with anyone who doesn't write what you like. That may not be true and I'm not accusing you, just saying that's how it looks to me.

If the laws were different and abortion was only legal if the pregnancy was medically unsafe or the infant was painfully ill or deformed... Would you still fight so adamantly for the 'right' to end a life that did not fit those guidelines? A baby who was just unwanted but perfectly healthy?

I think if abortion was not allowed unless neccessary, more girls and boys would keep their pants on longer.
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2 ups, 3 replies
Comparing a baby to a slice of meat...now that is taking it to the lowest level.
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1 up
It wasn't *my* comparison.
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1 up, 1 reply
The real question is why vegetarians aren't as entitled to demand eating meat be outlawed as "pro-lifers" are to demand abortion be outlawed? Why is the moral conviction of one less important than that of the other?
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3 ups, 1 reply
Well that doesn't even deserve an answer. And If you consider a hog on par to a human offspring, you are too far gone for me to explain anything to you.
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1 up, 1 reply
That reply boils down to saying "because I'm right and you're wrong."
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4 ups, 1 reply
More like, "I am very right and you are very wrong".
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1 up, 1 reply
Exactly. Who decides which moral beliefs are valid?
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3 ups
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1 up, 1 reply
I'm not the one who puts animal rights above human rights.

I understand medical reasons.
I don't agree with birth control use of abortion.
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3 ups, 1 reply
I know. Sorry you thought I was speaking to you.My comment was in response to Aylor Talbott above.
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2 ups
Oh lol, I lost track of the reply comment color on my phone lol
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6 ups
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4 ups, 3 replies
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4 ups, 1 reply
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5 ups, 1 reply
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3 ups, 2 replies
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5 ups
Apparently, not using protection makes you become a parent
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4 ups, 1 reply
Hahahaha. Great! I'd submit that.
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0 ups, 2 replies
I did. Unfortunately my memes often don't get out of submission or DV quickly. Here it is. imgflip.com/i/ybwm
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2 ups, 1 reply
Link didn't work for me :(
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1 up, 1 reply
I don't know how to make the link live. Copy & paste it if you can.
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1 up, 1 reply
I did copy & paste, I Think a letter is missing off the link. I just went to ur name & went from there lol
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1 up, 1 reply
Okay. Thanks for the effort and comments :)
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1 up
Np, enjoy your points!
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1 up
imgflip.com/i/ybwmh

Hopefully that links right.
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4 ups, 1 reply
Or better yet, wait until marriage, then have at it once you're ready for the responsibility of a family.
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4 ups
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4 ups, 4 replies
I am pro life as long as there is no medical reason the pregnancy will go to term without hurting the mother or child.

I am not pro-choice when a women just didn't want to use birth control and is now ending a life because it is inconvenient.

And before you yell at me, here's a few things about me u should know that give me those beliefs.

I was almost aborted.
I am a **pe baby.
I am an only child, and my mom cannot have other children.

If she had aborted me, she would have never had a child.
My children would never have been born.

As for pro-choice/medical.

I recently found out I am pregnant and it is most likely ectopic.
Meaning in my tubes, and will burst my insides if not stopped.

But it has to be legally confirmed in my tubes before they can end the pregnancy. Which means waiting until AFTER my baby has a heartbeat to see if its in the proper place, or tubal. Only once it is proven on the wrong place can they Stop growth and abort my baby.... To save my life.
And I hate it. I will see my baby, with a heartbeat, brain, little feet... And if its where they think, it will lose its life. I know it would not survive, but its still painful.

Now. That being said.

They cannot LEGALLY abort a tubal until after they visually confirm the baby is not in the uterus. Because if it is in the uterus, then it will statistically survive and therefore does have rights. They could stop the pregnancy right now, but can't on the slight chance it is healthy.
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4 ups
Just want to say that because I see people argue all the time who have never been affected by it personally.

But I personally am glad my mom kept me.
And as someone who was lucky my life wasn't chosen to be ended... It is now destroying me that my choice is being taken away again even though this time its medical.
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5 ups, 1 reply
My problem with abortion, other than the fact it's murder on a moral basis,is those who have abortions on the basis they don't want to have to deal with the child. The percentage of abortions in the United States are performed due to just not wanting the child. A very small percentage of abortions are performed because of rap e and incest or medical reasons. Pro abortionists just use that as a weak cop-out argument.

I feel for your situation. My wife and I had a situation where she was pregnant and the doctor told us it was a "false" pregnancy. Basically, she was pregnant, but there was no actual child in the uterus, but her body believed she was pregnant. The doctor told us she needed a DNC done to remove everything. I still have my suspicions the doctor wasn't completely honest with us because from the start she didn't think we should be having another child due to our financial issues at the time. None of her business, but yeah... I still, to this day, believe we terminated a pregnancy and didn't know it.
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4 ups
That is awful. I read up on all the false positives, ectopic, chemical preg's and such while I was waiting for my test results. I read that most times a false pregnancy is actually a very early term miscarriage. My friend had a d&c after she lost on of hers, but she chose to have it. The thought of waiting for her body to expel her dead baby made her to sad.

My issue with abortion as birth control is that it allows girls AND boys to feel its okay to go without protection, because 'hey,I can always get rid of any unwanted results'

It used to be we educated about how sex causes pregnancy and to wait until u were ready to consider a child before having sex.

I'm not talking marriage, but old enough and mentally ready.

It seems now no one cares that 13 year olds have sex. That scares me.
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0 ups, 1 reply
I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through. :( nobody wants to be in that situation. Do you live in the United States? I ask because in the US, I've never heard of an abortion legally hinging on the fetus being proven to be in the Fallopian tube.
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1 up, 1 reply
I am on the states, and its because I'm not going in for an abortion. I'm pregnant, but there's only a slight chance its in the uterus.

Because it could be healthy, the Drs have to confirm where it is so I can make an informed decision if its healthy. Or if its tubal how soon and how they will have to terminate... Surgery or medicine.

Also because if its tubal, a regular scrape the walls to remove the baby wont work.
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0 ups, 1 reply
What do you say to those who would deny abortion for medical reasons?
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1 up
Those who are against medical abortion are normally for religious reasons.
To them I point out that th seperation of state and church means they can refuse an abortion based on religious belief, but they cannot make their religion a law.

There has to be facts and majority moral agreement to persuade change, not just a belief.

Those who are not religious, I ask their reasons why. Most of the time they say that the child may be a miracle and survive. To that I say it is the parents choice. But in the medical world doctors must try to save their patients. If the pregnancy will result in death of one or both involved, the Dr will know better the chances.
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0 ups, 1 reply
I'm glad for you that your mother CHOSE not to abort. By outlawing abortion in the case of **pe, you would take that choice away.
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2 ups
See this is where pro-choicers 'no matter what' arguments tend to lose ground with me.

Anytime people are activists for change, there are different opinions. It gets debated, politically maneuvered and ammended many times before change becomes law.

Rape, by prolifers, is one of those debatably topics. And for some women it is a torturous thought to carry something that formed from the wrong done to them.
And I do sympathize. I believe that abortion should have a harder and thought selection procress.

Medical reasons for mother and child should he considered.
And **pe victims, mentally as well as physical, have medical reasons.

However that would all be debated to death by lawmakers.

I just think men & women need to he more careful with their own lives so they don't create a new one just to destroy it.

Like you don't drive a car and know that it'll kill someone if you aren't careful... We learn that driving is a responsibility... I think we should all realize that intercourse has reprocussions and responsibilities as well.
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5 ups, 2 replies
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5 ups, 2 replies
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6 ups, 2 replies
That is factually inaccurate: abortion is legal; it is not murder.
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4 ups, 1 reply
In town in Georgia it is illegal to walk down the street with an ice cream cone in your back pocket. People make stupid laws. Abortion is one of them and it is going down! It is inhumane!
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2 ups, 2 replies
But the current reality is that is legal.
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3 ups
I don't care what you want to call it. It is barbaric and uncivilized. To kill for such selfish reasons and innocent that cannot defend itself....well, it doesn't get any worse than that.
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[deleted]
0 ups, 1 reply
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0 ups
The problem with that is you aren't say "abortion is wrong." You are saying that it's murder, and thus illegal. That is not true.
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3 ups
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2 ups
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4 ups, 2 replies
Last night on the radio a heard a woman call in to a Christian show and tell her story. She was pregnant and the fetus/baby had complications. Doctors advised her to have an abortion. She didn't. She carried the pregnancy to term and gave birth to the baby. Three months later the baby died. So the baby died either way, but if she had gotten the abortion, she would have ended the baby's suffering sooner (and yes, I admit that I'm assuming the baby suffered, but complications severe enough to result in a very early death make it very likely that the baby suffered)
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3 ups, 1 reply
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4 ups, 1 reply
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1 up
There you go. ;)
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2 ups, 1 reply
Good point. You and I may think abortion was the moral choice in that case. But unlike "pro-lifers," we'd never demand the government force our decision upon this woman. But we have every bit as much of a right to do so.
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6 ups, 1 reply
The problem that "pro-lifers" have with abortion isn't women's rights, but the right to life. The child has every right to life and not be executed by its mother who couldn't wait to have unprotected sex before marriage. And life threatening instances in which you speak of make up only 1% of all abortions.
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3 ups, 4 replies
"Sex before marriage." If you want to claim it's about life and not controlling women, you should leave your moralizing out of the conversation. But you can't b/c controlling women is your true intent.
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5 ups, 2 replies
No, controlling women is not my intent. Don't pretend you know me and what my intent is. It has NOTHING to do with controlling women. That's a billshyt cop out liberals use to get their way with those who don't agree with them. No one has the moral right to terminate an innocent life. And women's rights? Really? You talk about women's rights, but if a woman goes to the street corner to sell her body for sex, see how quickly she's arrested. Women's rights...please.
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2 ups, 1 reply
Actually, prostitution is not illegal everywhere. Some, such as most Muslim Majority countries, Malta, and Most US except for many counties in Nevada. It is legal, however, in Japan, Republic of Korea, Singapore, Mexico, Japan, Taiwan, Israel, UK, Germany, Norway, Latvia, Italy, France, Australia, Argentina, and others.
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5 ups
However, as I have already stated, abortion is NOT about women's rights. If it were about the individual's rights, we would be concerned also for the father's rights. This child is a part of the father as well, not just the mother's.
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1 up
It's just a tip, take it as you will.
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4 ups
You can't say I want to control women. I am a woman! It isn't about control. It is about stopping the millions of senseless, selfish ,convenient abortions. because they are barbaric and inhumane and not conducive to a civilized society.
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1 up, 1 reply
I see youbstill only argued something you could complain about. Why didn't you give attention to the fact that he AGREED that in this instance it was life threatening, but in the big picture that is a small percentage of the abortions performed.

If they wanted to control women, prolifers would be insisting on chastity belts and punishment for even having sex before marriage.

Here's food for thought.

If a person is mentally handicapped after an accident and can no longer speak for themselves. Is it wrong for someone to still see them as a person with rights and speak out for them?

Why is it wrong for us to be the voice of the HEALTHY innocents who don't have a voice yet.

They have every chance to be the person who cures cancer as they do to become a mass murderer.... But shouldn't the healthy innocent babes have the RIGHT to CHOSE that for themselves?
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1 up, 1 reply
Because they cannot make such a decision, because it isn't their decision to make. I simply see a VAST fundamental difference between fetuses and born people that you obviously don't. "Pro-lifers" are most subtle than you give them credit for, but as we've seen here, they cannot help throwing in their medieval judgment of women daring to have sex for enjoyment, sex without fear of pregnancy.
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2 ups, 1 reply
Ummmm I have sex for enjoyment....
And we don't want women or men to be afraid of unwanted pregnancies.

But precaution ahead of time instead of destroying a life before it can defend itself would be Better and more humane

I'm not telling women to stop having fun.. I'm asking that they AND the men they sleep with do it RESPONSIBLY instead of haphazzard.

Why do u think std's and abortions are up in numbers.
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1 up, 1 reply
Partly because "pro-lifers" are more interested in sex shaming than educating and funding contraception. They hate abortion but oppose anything that reduces the number of them.
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1 up
Again, maybe u should stop using blanket statements, because I don't know any prolifer who would not allow a condom instead of an abortion.
I know there are SOME that feel that way but they, even in our own group, are not a majority. I support planned parent hood dealing with contraception, prenatals, and all programs that promote safe sexual choices and healthy living/child care.

I do not however support the businesses that offer same day abortions to anyone who walks in without a mental and physical evaluation, councilling and time to think about it.

I would rather these women take morning after pills if they are worried then stop a heart beat.
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2 ups, 1 reply
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1 up, 1 reply
No. I am not saying that is your argument. Quite the opposite. Your argument is that abortion is murder. I am questioning, not your argument, but your true motivation for making the argument. Of course you aren't arguing to control women, that would give you away entirely.
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2 ups
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7 ups, 5 replies
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6 ups, 1 reply
Abortion is murder. No two ways about it. So in saving a life, you are takings a life. Think about that.
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3 ups, 1 reply
Actually, it's a legal medical procedure.
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4 ups
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6 ups, 1 reply
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2 ups, 1 reply
You obviously don't know what a "straw argument" is. But regardless of that, my meme remains accurate.
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7 ups, 2 replies
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5 ups, 1 reply
Upvote for admitting your error, which many people wouldn't do. However, I question the accuracy of your pie chart.
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1 up, 1 reply
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1 up
Same here.

I'm facing a forced termination of a pregnancy that may be unhealthy for me and the baby would not survive.
I will be in your pie chart, under two of those color blocks, if my baby chose the wrong area to attach to...

But I still don't agree with the 'inconvenient' abortions.

If your birth control failed, I understand the possibility of considering a termination....

But I don't think abortion should be legal for someone who isn't an extreme case.
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2 ups, 1 reply
May I ask how many of the one million orphans created annually by your pious moral dictates you are willing to adopt? Getting every fetus born isn't the end of the story.
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7 ups, 3 replies
For the recored I have 3 adopted children, but me repeat your argument back to you just to make sure I understand it.
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4 ups
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4 ups, 1 reply
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[deleted]
2 ups, 1 reply
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0 ups
I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it reprehensible. But other people do.
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4 ups, 3 replies
Baby? No babies are involved in an abortion. Eradicating abortion would be a public health disaster between the pregnant women who would die, the 1 million children born annually to parents unwilling or unable to care for them, the children born with severe, painful anomalies, and billions in expenses siphoning health care resources from an already stressed system. Your piety is a luxury the real world cannot afford. Reality doesn't operate in sound bites.
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3 ups, 2 replies
I wonder how many pregnancies you've had, and babies you've given birth to. Because as soon as I feel pregnant I protect my belly and life that may be In it until a test tella me for sure i am... And then i treasure the life of my baby. Because its not full grown yet doesnt mean its not a baby.
That's like saying a kid isnt a human because its not fully grown adult yet.

Not a great anology, but its late amd im tired lol
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3 ups
Thank you
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1 up, 1 reply
0 pregnancies/0 births. It is for precisely that reason I have no right to tell anyone else to do when they are pregnant.
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2 ups, 2 replies
Okay, then maybe don't say that no babies are involved in abortions. Because to the majority of mothers, as soon as you see that second line, its your baby.

But also maybe change your atatement about right to tell anyone what to do... cause by your logic I do have the right to tell someone what to do.

Again I ask... if it had always been law, that only extreme circumstances allowed a medical termination of life... Wether prenatal or postnatal. Would you still be prochoice for those who just don't wanna be pregant anymore even though they got pregant knowing they'd have to carry it?
1 up
Yes. Personal bodily autonomy is a basic human right. If it would save a life, can the government mandate you give away your kidney? Of course not, and that's an actual born person. So how on Earth can a woman be mandated to incubate a fetus for 9 months? To me, the idea is completely insane.
1 up
Your comment is at the end of the comment line, buy I have to say that the government cannot make someone give away a kidney to save another life, no.

But a woman who had unprotected sex KNEW there was a possibility she could start a life. Not save one, but start one.

She has a responsibility to take care of that child.

Again, not extreme cases here, I'm only talking about those who just didn't want to use protection before hand.

And the reason a woman is MANDATED to incubate her own fetus..... Is because that's how we're made.
Once they figure out how to change that, yall can have unprotected sex all you want and never worry about killing another healthy child.
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3 ups, 1 reply
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1 up, 1 reply
Legal fact: Abortion is not murder.
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4 ups
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7 ups
That's why there are C-sections. Didn't want the baby in the first place? You should have been more wary of your actions.
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4 ups, 1 reply
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1 up, 2 replies
Keep saying it; won't make it true: abortion is not murder.
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4 ups, 1 reply
Okay. It is a LEGAL MURDER just like death penalty or the option to DNR, living wills, choice to stop treatement are all legal....

However IF the law changed would you still be so adamant about it now being murder.

Slavery used to be legal.
Woman unable to vote used to be legal.
Segregation used to be legal.

Does that mean it was morally correct just because law makers enforced their beliefs.

Ending a life on purpose is murder.
Doesn't matter if its legal or not.
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1 up
Sorry, a typo that made a word makes part of that confusing....

* adamant about it NOT being murder.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Keeping on saying "abortion is not murder" doesn't make that statement true either.

The only way you can back up the statement "abortion is not murder" is by arbitrarily imposing only the legal definition for the word, which is not necessarily the appropriate definition for the context of the conversation.

Abortion is, in reality, murder. The laws that permit abortion are wrong.
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1 up
Words have definitions. That too is a fact you are free to ignore.
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3 ups, 1 reply
Another red herring, elective abortions for the sake of convenience far outnumber the ones that are done to save a mother, which should be a separate discussion.
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0 ups
So stastically murders that save lives are less than murders that don't? So self defense and the right to weapons are okay because I have a right to kill if it saves me? But statistics say that I will use it to murded or be murdered with my own weapon. Which is why other countries have sanctions on public gun rights.

Again changing the argument to one exception to the rule on either side does not make a clear argument. Muddle it does.
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1 up
More a case of being anti-anti-abortion surely?
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1 up
They could just put the baby up for adoption they still have to give birth to the dead baby to get it out
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1 up
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1 up, 1 reply
I hate thinking of a great response after the fact, but you're right, it is none of your business.
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4 ups, 1 reply
Someone needs to speak out against murder. And the innocent cannot speak for themselves.
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0 ups, 3 replies
Calligng it murder across the board is okay. The speak on anothers behalf is not. If a doctor wants to care for a child it needs the parents permission. The fetus or child have no rights under legal law. Gods law allows this because it is man made. Your crusade is not unvalid just misguided in it's approach to persuade knowledgeable peope. Sometimes a fetust can have defects but to carry to term could harm the mother. Just becuase a law is made doesnt mean it will go away. It just won't be under medical care. Indeed technology and times have changed. But deaths from giving birth occur nationally. Even when the fetus is viable. Speaking on behalf of a victim is noble but does not automatically make you god or even legally right. God causes catastraphes all the time yet we fogive him. So why not you? Murder all the murders or throw them in jail is not pro life it is prosecution for religious idealogy like sharia law.
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5 ups, 1 reply
I don't forgive God because God does not need my forgiveness. Godis perfect in all His ways. He is Devine, I am not. I am a creation of God's and therefore am not abliged to give out forgiveness to God. I'm not sure what you even meant by all of that.

Abortion is murder, on a moral code, not according to the law man has elected to enforce. Laws like this are made by man, therefore are fallible. It is wrong to terminate a human life on the basis of inconvenience or just pure hatred for that person.

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with women's rights as many pro abortionists like to argue. Humans have no right morally to end an innocent life. We don't have the right, legally, to sell our own bodies for sex, but I hear no one fighting for that cause.
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0 ups, 1 reply
God in the old testament destroyed any who would not follow. Specifically sodom and glmorrah. This is why he sent his sacrificial lamb to forgive our sins. Now that part only works if the sinner accepts that jc is the son of god and worships his father. It goes back to adam and eve. Again the women tricked by the devil led adam astray to eat the forbidden fruit. Scholars debat whether this was knowledge of free will to sex or sin. Now depending on which christian centric church you follow this varies greatly from baptist to seventh day adventist. Yes I know you all beleive in a god that controls everything but it is again the wording or "gods law" in which you are focused. In mans law which existed in jc time he followed and others because they were not god. God had protected them but they still respected them "forgive them lord they know not what they do". Before on another meme I held back this meme I decided to add the religious aspect a little heavy. The anger or hatred against which is not being humble in going against gods law in the current law of the land (mans) if/when reverts or degrades to religion is the forgiveness I speak about. God said whatever we hold true here on earth god will hold in heaven. This is thought to mean the church and courts case again kings and other stuff like that already existed and went against jc or gods values. This issue I want to stay legal but of coure it degrades to religious idealogical merit. Prostitution is legal in other countries and nevada. But sex workers who make legal pornagraphy is a form of prostitution. Just because you do not hear it does not mean it does not exist. Treatment of sex workers has always been subversive (like abortion) the thinking now is if the controlled it would make it safer for the women. Meaning underage and diseaesed women could be helped and encouraged to leave instead of subjected to mistreatment. Again your religion and god allows you to judge and not be wrong on this issue. And a lot of people feel "not my daughter". But not all practice or care about your god. This is where you are wrong if it was gods then thine will be done. But hey only view your side and not anyone else's. Because that is where you wanna be when jesus comes back picking on little joe dirt.
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4 ups, 1 reply
Wow, that hurt my eyes. I generally don't read anything that long that isn't broken down into paragraphs. I tend to lose sight of what line I'm reading, etc.

Adam and Eve sinned because of their free will. Satan came to Eve in the guise of a serpent. He tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. She then gave it to Adam and he ate.

Now I believe that sinned entered man through Adam, not Eve. Adam was told by God Himself not to eat of the forbidden tree. Adam told Eve later after she was created from him. The Bible says that sin entered through man, not woman.

The Bible also states that God knew each one of us before we were even conceived, therefore I believe that life begins at conception. You and I could debate this all day and night and neither one of us would change our stance on the issue, I guarantee it.
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0 ups
I am a buddhist that has no stance on this issue of the religous argument on the abortion debate. I am only interested in the terms of legality and law in mans terms not gods. Fusing religion with mans law is nothing new. Only that the founders viewed religious oppression as sacrosanct to freedom. Rights are a legal definition. NOT coming from the bible, your using religion as a weapon in a legal debate has merit. Beliefs are sacred to the individual but are not to be enforced against someones will. Which lead back to rights and freedom.

Scholars debate and it varies between christian doctorines on the issue of sin and inoccent. They can but a belief can not be shaken or destroyed. It is not a belief if it can not withstand devout faith. This is why at the end I see it devoles into religius merit instead of rights or legality. This is a for judgement we pass on others these laws in the usa. To obtain that more perfect union. Which is why freedom of religion is paramount. Not just the one true king or queen bs what was going on in europe. If it is gods will then it would have been rectified across the pond. I am merely responding. I have free time. This is why I say forgiveness and judgement. Your religion enforces you to testify and fight to change others but also forgive and love. Most of the rhetoric that is remembered is again god is on our side and they are innocent. In legal terms this is not recognized if not it would be outlawed. Sorry for my not paragraphing but I read a ton and this does not bother me. I do it also to weed out the peope who take the time to reply that they are actually listening/understanding instead of only getting to their own point. I merely seem to be prochoice/abortion I do not care about the actual law. I love the merit and process of government and prose. Because as a human being that is not christian centric my america allows me to do so.
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1 up, 2 replies
Just a quick comment...

You clsaid a Dr has to have a child's parents permission to care for it.

Only when its voluntary. If the child's life is in danger a doctor is allowed to save its life, just as they could yours or mine, without permission.

As for saying a fetus has no rights... That is a fuzzy line.

You murder a pregnant lady, you can be charged with the death of her fetus as well.
A pregnant mom can be charged with endangerment for actions she takes while pregnant.

The unborn do have rights, just not as clearly defined as those who have taken their first breath.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Okay law is complex. First off the freedoms or rights we're debating are for the white man under british rule when the cessation happened in the fight for independence. The muddling of these rights to be only christian are what the pro life and others focus on.

If I damage property the not living thing has no rights. But the owner or state does. Intellectual rights also can be damaged. So the term right to life and pursuit of happiness is not what is agreeable to the individual but to your neighbor or enemy. Nor do they mean a solid unshakeable belief rather they are open for inerpretation.

Saying a fetus has rights because religion says so is a weak argument in the eyes of the law. This is how the justices saw fit to change the ruling. Again a stapler in the court of law can be a witness. Their is a precedence. After the olden times the nation has moved forward and gained technology and other things beyond blind faith.

So to say unborn is too nonspecific if a couple has eggs in vitro fertilization but only two are viable one is used/wanted then they have murdered. Same goes for women you say use it as birth control.

Euthinasia and similar medical law vary state to county. Also the medical care of gay spouses. So to say in one case or situation makes the rule is wrong.

If the fetus had rights or the promiscuous were kiling; the justices had to look at whole society not just one view. This is to say they talk of only on the merit of law and legalese. Seperation of church and state that leads to oppression. Which is why I say civil and womens rights. Not to demean your belief or view.

If a cow is slaughtered for food it right to life is not as much as a pets? So fetus hazy line is because again I focus on terms and definitions not merit or emotion. Same thing goes for temperance or marijuana or other laws/rights.

I am not a lawyer but have read up on case law and arguments. For anti and pro abortion. Political science and other things. I just comment. Watch the movie THANK YOU FOR SMOKING. lobbying is kind of what I do in my free time. Get tired of funny memes.
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0 ups, 1 reply
I am not debating anything from the break from England, I have not used religion and civil rights from the 70's don't stand today unless they are still law.

I get that your lobbying and just debating with facts... But you are replying with things that have very little to do with the points you are replying to.

I have purposely left religion out of my part of this debate but u kept bringing it up in your replies.
It's hard to hold someones replies in seriousness when it feels like they didn't read your own rebutttal, or didn't understand it.

And I think bringing up tv shows to say the masses aren't educated is a poor way to make your self sound smarter.

It may not be what you meant to do, but it is how it came across to me. Im done with this thread because everytime I ask a question no one can answer me with anything but 'men control women' 'religion is not law' and 'its the law so its okay'

The point of being an activist is knowing its the law, and using facts to fight for change. When I brought up slavery and womens sufferage as examples, I was showing that just because its law, doesnt mean its right. And that laws change all the time.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Yay so so you admit you are wrong. That is how I see it.

One of two are your main points. People using abortion as birth control or laws are wrong and unjust. What is your question? Why does god allow it? Or why aee people okay with it?

Same thing with going to war. The reasons behind it and justifications vary. Some get as small as personal to bigger ideals and contructs. Simply stated it isnt all going to be easily dramatized for entertainment sakes or soundbites. Which is why it is better to ignore others. God bless your heart.
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0 ups
No I admitted that I could not persuade anyone here to answer anything I'd asked with facts instead of trying to bring me down.

I said everytime i tried to talk to you, you replied with things that had nothing to do with my post... Example...

I JUST said that *i* purposely left religion out of my debating... And the first thing you asked me in you reply was "what was your question? Why does god allow it or why are people Ok with it?"

I asked many thing and used many examples and except for definition. Of words like baby nd murder, no one answered with facts... Just angry words or down putting comments.

I wasn't ignoring you because its hard to keep up. But I do have a life and my own sh*t to shovel and can't spend my life trying to talk to you just to have long posts stating history of old and religion that have nothing to do with here and now.

And anyone who is entertained by this thread isn't a true activist because the amount of disregard for the lives talked about is anything but entertaining.

I am talking about adjusting the laws over time to a less easy version of abortion and make there be a councilling and mental, physical exams with time to think about all options with a professionals help. POSSIBLY. I'm not saying I have the answers, but I am saying there has to be a better way.

I would gladly hand out contraception and safe sex items to males and females rather then see a life being lost because someone was too shy to buy condoms first.
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0 ups
Oh yeah the doctor parent part was specific to civil rights 1950's-70's. Or were about about if a christian wanted to rely on prayer or the antivaccine argument. Doctor care does not override patient rights like DNR or parents.

Voluntary again depends on spouse and family support. Sadly law and order svu and other tv shows mislead people on the actual complexity rather than explain factual law. Medical or otherwise.
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1 up, 3 replies
You said the fetus/child has no rights by law, and god must follow it because it is man made. Laws can change.
A lady just got taken to court for taking drugs while pregnant and exposing her unborn baby to drugs. Apparently that fetus does have rights.

Most of us understand the extreme circumstances involved with life threatening pregnancies. It's the use of abortion as birth control that's the problem.
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0 ups
Did the child speak on behalf and say it did not want drugs? Alcohol or deformed babies also use to be an issue in 1950's when laws that outlawed abortion and womens rights were not in vogue. Now the fetus may have been injured and was higher crime but the fetus right was not the issue. It was because of the drug use. Federal law and state law varies like marijuana to gambling even prostitution. if I damage a wall the has no rights or say in court but the state or owner can speak on behalf of the inanimate object. The god comment was about free will and mans ability to self sabatage. Judgement for or life decisions is payable on death when we are sent yo heaven hell purgatory etc. I am a buddhist and male. This is to say my pov is askew on the issue. Your focusing on the birth control is like someone saying murder is okay when that person deserved it. By whos law and choice. Polygamy to churches believing in prayer over medical care also go against what is seen as civil. I made the comment because to say god is on your side or they are innocent is again not recognized by law as far the issue if the mother has a choice. Indeed minors as young as 13-14 get pregnant and endanger their life. To compare to a mother whose last egg is used or a "s**t" unmarried does not have a right to kill is not looking at what the ramifications are. That is why ultimately this pro life thing is law and changed to reflect the times. Christianity is losing control of america because of mutiple reasons this why above I compared to sharia law. This does not mean I disagree I just like to comment and philosophize sometimes.
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0 ups, 1 reply
This prolife and prochoice issue we talk about is not who is right or wrong it is a freedom. That we can't force our will on someone because we are just or right. If hate speech rallys occur it is a feedom maybe not agreeable but it is a right. Same thing with slavery to segregation to confederate flag. Saying life is a right is a thing but I am focusing on legal terms and definitions. The push to make ten commandments law or even satanism practice legal are also rights. The usage of right/s is because most think opposite of wrong. Freedom and right to choose is why/how the justices interpreted the law to allow abortion. So yes it can change if the minority and majority saw eye to eye to stop it. Not because of religion but an unknown force. But to stick to your high horse or say my big brother god wills me to do this does not help change the opposition view. On the pro choice side some are antireligous and will never cave but their is some who feel that in somewhat sympathetic to you cause but the the often unwillingness to change your argument on a focal point does not help. Again the more perfect union we endeavor to be will ho on beyond our time. But again being man made it is fallable not like your god. This is just expansion of what i am saying not a degredation of your views or rights. Ultimately the individual matters not the majority controls our laws.
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3 ups, 1 reply
So when slavery was legal, it was wrong for people to try and help slaves reach freedom because we shouldn't force our will on people because its just and right?

I'm just trying to figure out where being an activist for change to save lives, changes to being controlling.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Your error is that searching for a just cause in the government. Is their science in the bible? Some would argue yes or define it as creationism or focus on what is science.

The founding fathers after the fight for independence expanded the rights and liberties (some) to slaves. They were not humans again they were property (before civil war). Like the definition of a fetus or minor not having full rights like an adult or parent.

Like the suffrage or temperance movement some were forced for whatever reason. Temperance ultimately lost alcohol laws vary greatly also.

You claim to be on the moral high ground like antislavery is not comparable to abortion rights at least in the current state of the nation not just in the policy making system.

Yes I know the poor babies. But fetus is seen as part of the womans body. Not the grandparents or the sperm donor who does not go through the pain and danger of child birth.

This is how at least it is defined currently. I am not prochoice nor prolife. I just can interpret a little of how this came about. Like how can you own land or water when it is gods property. Why was it okay to massacre native americans and oppress their religion? But that changed. And went on to chinese and so on and so on.

So opinion and rage against the machine ifyou must. But this is what it feels like to be a minority. Even if you are right it does not matter because the majority control the definition of acceptable.

So trump or the rnc trying to bring back or change america from blackobama damage. Need to accept they lost to progress and not blame the devil or outsiders. This change happened within america for the better and can change back but not in the same old tired arguments of god is only on my side.

Especially after the housing bubble and the mutiple scandals across the nation. It is why the democrats seem to be in power. Mostly because of replubican need to close ranks.

If the reps win this it does not automatically mean it will revert back cause again how the system is balanced/defunct.
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0 ups
I wasn't searching for just cause In the government, i was asking YOU to better explain what you meant when YOU said that we cannot try to impose our opinions just because we have the higher moral ground.

I was saying that this issue, is similar to slavery.

One side saw them as people, one side saw them as property.

They people who thought it was wrong fought for change.

But you said pro-lifers cannot force this change.

I'm sure the antislavery activists heard that too. And look what happened. Change.

And I dont remember bringing up anything about Obama care, and do not understand why you used a racial ajedctive.. or slur.. I'm not sure... (blackobama)

I don't get where you bring your rebuttals out of. No one said anything, that I saw, about wanting rep in office to revert a system... Or dems bringing scandal... I just mentioned lawmakers would debate this over and over before any change could be made and that they, not I would decide wher the line is for medical procedure abortions versus vanity life ending appointments
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1 up, 1 reply
How is it you get to decide when abortion is and is not permissible?
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2 ups, 1 reply
I don't.

Law makers do.

All I can do is show my support for what I believe in by my own morals and those of the laws already in place.

Who is it that someone decided women voting was permissible?

Pro-life is not about taking away choice. To some it may be in a weird way, but no, most of us believe that ALL life is important, the mother, FATHER and child should have a choice.

If there is medical reasons... That is (god or whatever else is believed or just circumstance) taking away that choice, not an oppresive person enforcing their own thoughts.

But who says that a woman who got pregnant, and MONTHS Later just decides no... I don't think so... Who says her baby, who has a heart beat, brain function, hair, fingers, toes, and can react to stimulus.... Who says she gets to terminate that life without a second thought or the dads opinion?

If I can get her permission to share a friends full story ill share the pic...but... she had an emergency delivery VERY early... 27 weeks. Her baby was born small, but breathed on its own. Baby survived being born that early..

At the same time that they will kill the child in utero and scrape it out.

What I can't figure out is how prochoicers see a difference in the baby delivered at 27 weeks different from a baby aborted at 27 weeks.
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0 ups, 1 reply
Above the last line of majority I mean like you said above is lawmakers. Not majority of american constituency. Because of the electoral college and how federal and ammendment rights are made and defined.

As to the 27 question most know the power off the shame and heavy decision thet make. It is not as easy or thoughtless as you think they take it.

But you said the lifers are like thr freeslavers. Well I can tell you this will go underground (abortion) if it goes back to being defined as murder legally. Which why it was illegal and the decision was overturned. This quagmire may never be solved. As the bible says forgive them father they know not what they do seems should be your view.
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1 up, 1 reply
Why do u keep bringing up the bible, I thought you were Buddhist.

Im not complaining this one, I'm curious if you use it in all ur debating or if you just assume that prolifers must be Christian.

When abortion was underground, there were many unsafe ones done... Yes
But people were less likely to just go get one and more likely to think of their actions first.
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0 ups
Okay I see where we both got muddled. I will not reply after this unless you want me to do so. I was stating things about me as a matter of fact not to support my argument. In the way I practice the middle path is to kind of remove judgement. This does not mean the words I say are all peace loving and hippie-ish. The comment about lobbying does not mean I use the same tools as what is used in court. Tv comment or other sensationalism or journalistic approaches try to be unbiased but ultimately fail. So that is why most of my stuff comes off being meta. I thought you were talking specifically about the law. NOT my motivation or views. Funny memes is good but in these flame wars I try to list an objective view. But again this is an ideal not a reality.

Like I said not all supporters of laws are religious or christian. Indeed some are even dare I say heathens. Sometimes people want children but are not religious or blah blah blah. Temperance or slavery was not specific to religion but the activism you spoke about.

The defining of the laws and how they come about is why my posts became expansive. I got tired of repeating so this is why I said the comments about religion. Because the finer points do not dis-include the whole or history to win an argument or make case law or precedence.

Apologies I see you side but do not accept the minute parameters of they are innocent or have no voice. Because again I do not believe that is activism or heroic enough to override.....

Goes on and on. The last word does not mean anyone has won. Neither does admitting defeat. Just because it is a point of view. I gain nothing by destroying your values or rights to believe what you do religous or not.

But to claim a principal is better or more just than others. Is like saying some parts of the ocean are less salty than others it maybe true. But does not make less salty or more watery. So to hide behind or glorify righteousness is not humble and argument and debate are the freedoms that made this country and allowed this killing of babies to happen. And may not change but could change.

Thank you for the effort to reply. So now If you want more I will limit myself to three small paragraphs. But AGAIN they are just words and in my view hold no power unless I take action. I could not tell a mother or couple what they HAVE to do or believe. But like i said my Buddha path is mine and mine alone.
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1 up
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0 ups
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IT'S EASY BEING PRO ABORTION WHEN YOU'RE SITTING THERE ALIVE AND WELL; BUT THAT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS
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