cognitive dissonance much?

Does owning a firearm for self defense and hunting guarantee the death of an innocent human?

Even if "pro-choice" people disagree, pro-lifers like myself believe that the fetus in a womb is a human, and given that premise, nothing can justify it. From that point of view, it is clearly possible to hold the evidence-backed view that firearms are a net good in society despite the few people who have used them in evil ways as well as believing nobody should be able to have an abortion because it is by definition the ending of an innocent human's life. No cognitive dissonance here ;)

"No, and neither does abortion, because a fertilized egg is not an innocent human"

This is irrelevant. I was arguing why given pro-lifers' belief that a fertilized egg is a human, abortion is always wrong and should be actively fought against. I was not arguing that someone with the view you gave should agree because there is no way. We fundamentally disagree here, and the point of my response was not to convince you of my side since that can never happen.

*will probably never happen

"'pro-lifers like myself believe that the fetus in a womb is a human, and given that premise, nothing can justify it'

Not even rape?"

Nope. It wouldn't be okay to kill it after birth, and we believe that to be exactly the same as killing it in the womb.

"I don't like abortion so you can't have one. It doesn't matter what you want."
That is the only false line. Otherwise, yeah. I feel extremely bad for them, but being traumatized still can't justify murder. I'm all for giving the rapist death, castration, or life in prison, though.

Her consent doesn't matter of the child's life is on the line. Again, would it be okay to kill the kid after birth? No.

*if

I can't predict how I will act under every circumstance, especially if i have any personal relationship with the adult. I am obviously an imperfect person, and I can get very emotional at times, which can prevent me from making the most logical decision. Additionally, I am not God and therefore can't properly judge who has more value. I can't say for sure who should or would be saved in that scenario, but I would probably try to save 2 lives over one.

"Sorry, cousin, but there's 2 in vitros in nitro about to expire, and you gotta go instead" said no one ever.

Oh, please.

f you see a fertilized egg as having equal value to an adult, does that mean you would save a container of two fertilized eggs over one adult if you had to choose in a quick moment?

Yes. I would. those fertilized eggs are still Humans, or in your case will become Humans in the near-future. Perhaps I will bear the guilt of killing a man for the rest of my life, but if I watch those "two fertilized eggs" grow up into children, and eventually functioning adults, it will be more then worth it

Once again, I would forever bear that guilt for allowing a person to die, but also bear the pride of being the reason those two people exist today. that one person is a sacrifice i'm willing to make for the lives, or in your case future lives, of two others.

So you're willing to let one adult die to save two fertilized eggs that may not actually develop into human beings?

hold on, you're not guaranteeing they will develop? with that vagueness let's say they're dog eggs, or literal eggs from a duck. if so, let the adult live!

but you and I both knew what you meant. so let's be realistic- I would save two developing babies over one adult. those developing babies will one day be adults themselves- and so their combined value is greater then a single person.

That's exactly what I just said

"And that's not what we're talking about"

It may not be what you are talking about, but it's exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, but your arguments mean nothing to me as long as I believe a fertilized egg is a human. We have fundamentally opposing ideas on life itself, so there is no practical way to reach any type of compromise or middle ground while maintaining proper logic.

Because I would generally try to save 2 people over one

"Also, I'm curious why you think adult women are little children that need to be controlled by people like you and can't make their own decisions about their bodies?

Does an adult woman's uterus belong to you?"

First of all, mega strawman that was most likely not made on accident or in good faith.

When the government makes murder of born children and adults illegal, that is in no way treating people as kids. We believe the child is NOT the woman's body, and it is not controlling her body to say "don't murder your child." We believe a woman that aborts her baby is violating the fetus's rights and that SHE is the one controlling his/her body.

"'nobody should be able to have an abortion because it is by definition the ending of an innocent human's life'

Abortion is not defined as the ending of an innocent human life."

Missing the point again. The point was to explain why people who believe life starts at conception should feel the need to actively fight abortion given that premise and cannot be pro-choice in a logical way.

"'firearms are a net good in society despite the few people who have used them in evil ways:

It's way more than a 'few'"

I concede that i was loose with the word "few," as it can be quite subjective in its scale depending on context. In short, more lives are saved by armed civilians than lost. That is a net positive in my book.

“Abortion is not defined as the ending of an innocent human life. Also, I'm curious why you think adult women are little children that need to be controlled by people like you and can't make their own decisions about their bodies?“

Then tell your people to stop trying to mandate vaccines… “I'm curious why you think adult women are little children that need to be controlled by people like you and can't make their own decisions about their bodies?”

After 6 weeks the fetus' heart starts to beat, at that point it becomes a human. Therefor, if it is aborted after 6 weeks, it is essentially killing a human

Cardiac activity can be detected at 6 weeks.

Couldn't resist, the setup was there,,,

Wasn't sure if I should leave "of" out

"No it doesn't"

Your sources are very convincing... Here's mine

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat

It's literally the first result on google....

Do you even bother looking anything up or are you just so egotistical that you believe everything you think you know is correct simply because it makes you feel better to be "right"

Because ad hominems really help?

Anyways, you defy your own argument with "After 6 weeks the fetus' heart starts to beat, at that point it becomes a human" since that only differs from his position in terms of time and level of physical development.

It's human when it's human which is at the start or it ain't. Tailoring it to suit your own personal standards is irrelevant and nulifies your point.

"No, and neither does abortion, because a fertilized egg is not an innocent human"

While it being "innocent" is a matter of perspective, it is human.

I suppose I should throw in my own opinions on abortion.

In MOST cases, it is a bad thing. there is one exception:
-If either the baby or mother, or both, have a significant chance of dying in birth, abortion is only then justified. One life may be ended, but it is cancelled out with another being saved.

Now, here are common arguments I see:

Argument: What about rape? what if the mother cannot care for the child?
Rebuttal: Foster Care exists for a reason. even if it's not the best system, I would take having a chance of a good life despite that fact over being killed while still in the womb. Babies should instead be put into the foster care system.

Argument: "If you don't want an abortion, don't have one!"
Rebuttal: I view abortion as murder. as such, the question equates to "If you don't want to murder people, just don't! it's okay if others do though."
I don't think I need to explain how problematic the rewritten question is. if we followed the logic of the argument, we shouldn't have any problem with murders or even genocides. and yet we try nearly everything in our power to stop it.

Finally, in reference to the last argument, and the meme in question, I wish to state the following:

Abortion is murder you're ending a Human life, even if that life is still developing in the womb. Guns MAY be a TOOL of murder, but can also prevent murders or allow you to get food. Abortions and Guns are not the same, one is clearly worse then the other.

"You didn't answer the question about rape. If a woman gets pregnant because she was raped and she doesn't want to carry that pregnancy for nine months, why should she have to?"

because abortion is almost always wrong. rape is terrible, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse for abortion. I would recommend allowing the rape victim to decide the punishment of the rapist, but as innocent as the victim may be the resulting baby is also innocent- we shouldn't condemn it to death because of the poor circumstances of others.

"If you view abortion as murder, then of course any argument in favor of legal abortion you'll just compare to murder and say that it's invalid. That doesn't mean it's a valid argument, though.

Imagine if somebody compared burning fossil fuels to raping the environment, and every time you brought up the use of fossil fuels they accused you of supporting rape. Would that be a valid argument?"

abortion directly kills a human being. burning fossil fuels doesn't automatically impregnate every female in an 200-foot radius. poor comparison, no matter how you twist and turn the meaning of the words.

"`Yes, and that's exactly why you rewrote it that way"

congratulations, you just understood and accepted the point.

"This is all just your opinion, not facts"

And that's why abortion is so controversial- because what someone considers a "human life", and because of the morally grey nature of the arguments that essentially turns it into a trolley problem, there are no "facts" to back up a position. all we have are our own personal philosophies, moral compasses, and emotions- excluding the latter, these are all things very hard to change with mere debates, especially when the stakes for both sides are quite literally life-or-death for the people we're trying to defend. I recognize that abortion debates are fairly futile... and yet here we are. oh well, i'll be awaiting your rebuttal.