Dont be like Alec Baldwin

Who one votes for has nothing to do with whether or not they practice gun safety.

Reeves? Looks like yes.

Baldwin? We have proof... no, he did not.

baldwin is not responsible for a gun a propmaster handed him.

You are responsible for any firearm you hold.

not if you're told it had blanks.

Sounds like you need safety courses too. First rule of gun safety, always assume the gun is loaded, check it yourself.

i get the point about not being cavalier, but turning this into a political issue against the actor isn't helping the supposed cause of "gun safety".

I'm not saying it's political. I'm saying it is ultimately his fault

Maybe because he's the executive producer and hired a newbie armorer. Maybe because they were just setting up the camera and he accidentally pulled the trigger. Maybe because there had been other safety problems and the producer didn't have a safety stand-down to straighten out training or procedures. Not because he didn't check the weapon.

That's not the case in the movie industry. If an actor does anything to check the condition of the weapon themselves, it loses its "cold" status and has to go back to an armorer. Weird, but that's the procedure agreed on between the lawyers and the movie insurance people.

And it's deeply flawed.

Ok, I'll give you that. How about "know your target, and what's beyond it"?

Absolutely! A small barrel obstruction can become a projectile. Even if someone tells you it's cold, you don't just go pointing it at people and pulling the trigger!

Exactly. That's what happened to Brandon Lee

That's true. Bringing back to my first point of if handed a firearm, check it. But apparently the actor isn't allowed to.

If the actor needs to watch the armorer, I would be more comfortable with that. I would like to know more about set safety. I expect that different productions would have different rules. The police statement I read about the Rust incident talked about a gray cart of cold guns that sat around while they had lunch, then one was handed to Baldwin and called "cold" because it was on the cart. At an absolute minimum, the cart should have been rechecked by the armorer after being left alone for an hour. (Or really, for any amount of time unsupervised)

According to what I read (I'll send the link when I find it again), any time the production is at stand still or not using guns, the firearms are to be off set, locked away where only the armorer has access to. Definitely not just sitting around.

https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797

It's from 2017 just fyi

I can't find anything that says it. But the actor is required to watch the armorer and check the gun with them to make sure the rounds are blanks and the chamber is clear. Also, there are protocols about distance and placement of crew members when using blanks, including camera angles.
Also his brother Adam was interviewed and he said he didn't know why Alec didn't check the gun and it was pure negligence.

I have to look it up and get back to you.

https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797

It's from 2017 just fyi

one of the first things they teach you in pretty much any gun course is to check the status of a weapon regardless whether the guy that handed it to you said it's safe or not

How do you check for the status of blanks?

the same way you check for live ammo? if there's brass in the chamber you shouldn't go pointing the gun at a person and pulling the trigger regardless of whether it's a blank or not

that's what the armor is for - to take responsibility.

There's comfort in feeling that the person who gave you bad information is responsible for the person killed when you pointed the weapon and pulled the trigger. Gotta admit that this sounds like a whole different topic, though. 5t6den.jpg (click to show)

You are responsible to know the status of ANY weapon in your hands.

not if you were told it was fake.

Guns, when loaded with blanks, are STILL guns.

Tell that to Brandon Lee

Yes they can- in recent years, an actor jokingly put a pistol loaded with blanks to his head and pulled the trigger. The concussion fractured his skull and killed him.

Yeah, I watched that show. The actor didn't realize that the blanks used in his semiautomatic pistol were extra powerful in order to make the gun function properly. When people get the impression that blanks can't hurt you, that's when people do stuff that violate basic safety and end up injured or dead.

Precisely!

then the right should make memes out of kids killed by guns left unlocked by conservative parents in red states. happens many times a year.

that's different from firing outward as normal.

It's still misuse of a firearm, and just flat out careless stupidity.

not a political issue.

You're right, it's not a political issue. It's an issue of negligence with a deadly weapon that ended up killing someone. I'd give a conservative actor the same level of shit. Baldwin killed someone due to negligence. Period.

The meme is about gun safety and the results of carelessness and arrogance- not politics. This is patently obvious.

many gun accidents happen all the time to conservatives and nobody makes a meme out of them. this was only chosen because alec made a fool out of trump.

I'd forgotten SNL. He did a great job, in spite of how much he disliked being stuck in the role!

if a gunsmith handed me my pistol back and told me it was safe and I pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger and it went bang, I would go to jail, not the gunsmith. You are responsible for the weapon and its condition, not the guy that handed it to you. Even if you WATCHED the guy clear the weapon before handing it to you you are still supposed to check it yourself. If actors for some reason aren't allowed to do this then there's SERIOUS safety issues in hollywood. No surprise considering their anti-gun position though.

some of my biggest arguments with other gun owners have been over gun storage in houses with kids. There is room for improvement at home as well as on movie sets.

I read the link to the Australian movie set information and they require the actor to be a part of the process to make sure a gun is cold. I think that's better than trusting somebody else to put a weapon in my hand and tell me I can't hurt somebody with it. Baldwin is proof of the flaw in that method.

i watch that stuff and shoot guns on occasion. not because i'm paranoid, but because it's kinda fun once in a while and diversity is our strength :)

My initial information was very incomplete. Finally, a Hollywood armorer gives more info on safety procedures. All the 'cold' status in the world does not guarantee safety against a malfunction or error, so the actor has the responsibility to never point a weapon at a person, EVER.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie-munitions-experts-gun-safety-1235035713/

then it needs to change. but the right wing is hypocritical about "liberal hollywood" and not themselves.

This may seem like a rare event of castigating someone for negligent handling of a firearm because the algorithm doesn't think you want to see righty/shooty content. I watch plenty of videos about people who do dumb stuff with firearms, because of all the gun related content I watch. There's bias on both sides, but I see less in the shooting community. You can see that in the fact that the person chosen as the example of how to do it right was someone who voted for Biden, as you pointed out repeatedly.

california isn't the state with the most accidental gun deaths

https://www.google.com/search?q=state+with+the+most+accidental+gun+death

Good info. Strangely, none of the studies track the political affiliation of the owners of the guns, but I really like seeing the top factors like age, alcohol, and my personal pet peeve, "I didn't know it was loaded." Eddie Eagle came to my school, so I learned the rules even before I lived in a house with guns. It's a good thing, because some of my friends lived in homes where there were guns. I'll probably do some more digging through the data later. It's been a while since I updated my knowledge in the subject area. Spotted one search result that mentioned the rate of accidents is going down, but I would likely not mention that to anyone I'm coaching on home weapon storage.

then you should direct your outrage to every conservative who lost a child due to improperly storing guns.

My earlier comment was about arguing with gun owners who are parents. I support jailing gun owners who lost children to gun accidents because of negligence. "Oh, they lost a child and you think putting them in jail is going to be a bigger punishment than the pain they are already suffering?" they say. I don't give a spit about that parent. I care about giving other parents an additional reason to be careful in how they protect the little people with underdeveloped brains in their care. I hate making the "it's for the children" argument.

And you keep trying to inject politics into safety, when my experience in California has been with plenty of non-conservatives as examples of 'how-not-to'. Conservatives too, for sure, but it's not as lopsided as you seem to think.

since liberals aren't the big gun owners, one can only deduce most of the gun accidents are happening in conservative households.

That's not a deduction, it's an extrapolation, and it's very likely correct. And the Amish have fewer car crashes.

ok so the issue is with the armor and the studio who hires that armor and explains gun safety TO the actors, not the actors themselves if they don't otherwise know.

this sounds like there needs to be more government regulations to ensure studios hire armors who certify they have explained this to all the actors.

We've got enough laws on the subject already. If an actor is told, "never point a weapon at a person," and then they point the weapon *and* pull the trigger, then some of the blame is on the actor. The courts will have no trouble finding existing laws to cover this negligent discharge and all the people responsible.

You're right about that point. Actually, if an actor does anything to check the weapon themselves, it is no longer considered "cold". The executive producer, however, chooses the propmaster, and this was only her second firearms related job. The propmaster is complaining that not enough time was allowed for training. She also has "no idea" where live rounds came from... like WTF?! A new crew had been hired that day because the previous one quit because of concerns over their safety. They weren't filming yet, so I expect that there was no need to fire the pistol, which would make this a negligent discharge (poor gun handling that could have been prevented with training). This was the second or third firearms problem on the set and I haven't heard anything about a safety stand-down for extra training or review of procedures. Plenty of blame to go around. Most accidents like this are the end result of several problems. Still waiting for the results of the inquiry.

But I'm sure everyone was made to be pass the 'tolerance training'!

Sounds to me like the priorities of those doing the hiring were not qualifications.

Oh well. Silly me. Qualifications and experience don't matter. Diversity is our strength!

therefore it's not political nor baldwins fault.

Not political, but definitely baldwin's fault.

5rykqb.jpg (click to show) imgflip.com/i/5rykqb

Now, now, when you order food at a restaurant, do you sit there and wait for it?
NO! You go to the kitchen and make it together with the cook, just like you deliver your own mail and put out the fire with the house burning down around you after the fire dept arrives.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to the coiffure to coif my own hair while the staff watches.

If that's your opinion on responsibility for your actions, you shouldn't own a gun

Wha?

Amen

All this coming from a bunch of socially inept militias who are gonna resume their civil war to reinstate their send-my-foundation-your-money broke billionaire golf god as soon as mommy brings up their Hot Pockets.

Don't care- the meme is not about who he voted for.

Wrong- it's about proper gun safety and training.

No- it's the primary responsibility of the person holding the gun to be completely safe with it. This includes making sure you know how to operate it safely and knowing at all times if it is loaded or not. This is basic firearm handling ETHICS! You do not get to pass this responsibility onto someone else.

and not political.