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The Bible says that no one can be snatched out of Jesus' hand. But then again, He is not going to drag anyone kicking and screaming into heaven. He is a gentleman, and if you want to leave, He won't force His love on you. Forced love is not love. I believe you can walk away from faith, but He will always be there with open arms if you turn back. There has always been a big dispute among Christians over the once saved, always saved, debate. I personally believe you can never lose your salvation. But I would not want to test God on it...

He doesn't force anyone into hell. He saves us from it. We're already going there on our own because of our violation of God's law. But it's good to see you believe in hell. That's a start! ; )

I still don't see how you feel God forces us to do anything. If anything, He forces us to be born. After that, it's all up to us. If you give someone a choice, of anything, it's up to them to choose. We all know the difference between right and wrong. Sadly. More often, it's in our nature to want to do wrong. God gives us the choice to make it right. For eternity. I know I won't change your mind, Octavia, but what exactly are the benefits of atheism? Are you truly happy?

So you said, "Do what I say or face terrible consequences" is not a fair position to put someone in."  Is that a fair thing for a parent to say to their child?  Even if the consequences are of the child's own doing?

Since you brought up the word "fair". Consider this:  Is it fair if you create something and then decide to take it apart?  Is it fair to the thing you create?  Whether it be technical,  biological, or perhaps supernatural?  Does the creator not have total control over his creation?  If the very concept of fair or unfair, right or wrong, come from our creator, (be it an eternal, intelligent and all-powerful God), then how could we say we know any better?

Maybe look at it this way:  say you wrote a screenplay for a movie.  You picked all the actors, paid for, produced and directed it. You know how the story plays out from beginning to end.  Now say one of your paid actors hadn't read the whole script.  He said that you don't know what you're doing, and he wants you to change your story to how he wants it to go.  He even thinks that your judgement on how you treat the characters in the story is unfair.  How would that sound? 

As for my last question, I didn't ask you if you have things that make you happy.  I asked if you are happy.  With life.  Do you have peace and joy in your soul?

Wow, thanks for the long and thought out answer.  (You know, you don't have to copy and paste every one of my comments. I will get which ones you're responding to, and it will make your overall response a lot shorter).

I know that one of the big problems people have with Christianity is that the punishment of hell never seems to fit the crime.  And for a crime that wasn't our fault to begin with.  But the problem with that thinking is that we are thinking like man thinks.  With a finite human mind on a physical plane.  We can't possibly see it the way God sees it.  His thoughts are higher than ours.  I know we've had this conversation before, and I'm sure I've given you this analogy before, but for the sake of anyone else reading this, I'll tell it again: 
Picture a field of sheep grazing in a green field.  You think, wow, their wool coats look so nice and white next to the grass.  But then snow starts to fall.  And after the snow is done falling their coats look all dingy and dirty next to the dazzling pure white snow.   We are thinking that we are all nice and clean, before the snow of God's purity and righteousness falls upon us.  Our perspective is changed by outside circumstances we didn't see at first.  

The analogy of the screenwriter was just that, an analogy.  And I admit, probably not the best one, for I made it up.  But I like to try to explain these heavy concepts and doctrines as simply as I can. Mainly because it's easier for me to understand them.  But when you brought up the parent who kills their child, that was irrelevant to the point, because it is not the parents who create the child in the first place.  God creates the child in the womb. (Jer.1:5).  Just like he causes our heart to beat and our every breath continue without any will or control of our own.  And since he is the creator of everything, (Col.1:16,17) we can't say whether something is moral or immoral for him to do.  If he wants to take a person from this plane of existence and move him (or her) to another plane, its his sovereign prerogative to do so.  The problem we make as humans saying that God is unjust or immoral, because we don't fully understand his perspective, is literally putting ourselves in the position of God.  WE say what is moral or unjust, because We know better than God.  It all goes back to the first sin in the garden.  Our desire to have the knowledge of God.  And to be our own God. To be in total control of our lives. Of course, life itself teaches

us over and over again how little control we really have.  To surrender yourself to God, who is truly in control of everything, seems to be the only safe and logical conclusion.  We have no idea what awaits us behind the curtain of death.  If there is something more, then trusting in the entity who holds the keys would be the way to go, don't you think?  Surely very little, (physical pleasures, wealth) is given up being a Christian in the light of having a lifetime in eternity.

Lastly, I dont take anything for granted being  a Christian.  I am grateful for every heartbeat and breath I have.  Every day I an thankful to an awesome creator of a beautiful world I see around me.  Sure, I have doubts, and some days are filled with pain and heartache.  But I have something to look forward to.  To strive for, and to help make myself a better person in this one precious life I have to live.  Knowing I have a creator God that loves me and wants me to dwell in the light with him, outshines all the pain of this world and gives me an inner peace and joy that only He can give.  And encourages me to bring others into His saving grace. 

Once again, I'm sorry to hear that you were once a Christian and fell away.  And if any person of faith has caused you to do so, I apologize on their behalf.  For we are all supposed to be unified and of like mind and body.  Unfortunately, that is not the case in this fallen world.  But don't give up asking questions and searching for the truth.  Always a pleasure conversing with you, Octavia!  🙂👍

holy crap so i just read this conversation and you are by far the kindest christian i have ever seen especially in a debate like this. i’m truly impressed and it does make me feel better that there are christians out there like you:)

the only thing i’d like to say is, when you say “ Surely very little, (physical pleasures, wealth) is given up being a Christian in the light of having a lifetime in eternity. ” the only thing i have against this is i don’t know what happens when we die(i know what i think but i don’t know for a fact) but i don’t want to give up some of the best parts of life for the promise that hasn’t been proven that we’ll spend an eternity in heaven(i hope that makes sense)

I see that Memedave has already spoken about the rest, but people who were never exposed to God and Christianity will go to Heaven, according to the Catholic catechism. I don't have one on hand, and can't find the passage, but I clearly recall that in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it has been stated that anybody who has died unexposed to the word of God and has kept moral in their logical actions (don't do anything that would obviously be really not okay) will see Heaven.
Also, on a separate note, refer to Saint Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica. In that, he expresses many ideas about what could prove God's existence- most of them rely on him starting things, such as movement. I'll focus on movement. He states that since everything must be moved by something in the beginning (including ourselves, in a way- we're at perpetual motion, which is why we don't need to be wound up every once in a while. Our cells just start functioning as soon as they come into existence- somewhere, that's bound to have been untrue), and by that logic, there needs to be a great mover- something that started all motion. God. Now, of course, people argue that if such is true, then why is God exempt? It's pretty simple, actually- at some point, even adopting the Big Bang Theory, motion came from a lack of motion. Therefore, something was moved. If God is not exempt, something else initiated motion- but what?

Well, to put it frankly, life isn't fair. This is an analogy for death, right? Plain and simply, you died. There is the void of Purgatory where you make good on penance- I personally believe that is where people who are not anti-christian (anti-christian would be hating on and targeting the church), but who are Christian and not catholic (any other Christian religion or religion respectful of Catholicism), or are anyone who died having confessed to God, will go to do what is necessary to reach salvation. Those who target and undermine the church get a one-way pass to hell. I don't mean that you will go to hell, of course- you have not slandered the church, only asked questions with difficult philosophical answers. I feel that upon your death, you will go to purgatory. In that purgatory, (with your infinite time, may I add), you have an ultimatum. Rather than go to hell at all, you can either go to Paradise, or you can remain in Purgatory as long as you desire as a ghost in the traditional sense. Unfinished business? Real stuff. The Church does not necessarily see it how I do, but to each his own.

It says only 144,000 Sainted Chosen plus a few Gentiles who lead just lives will go, so someone's got their admissson policy to the Pearly Gates a little confused. With Christians being in the latter group, better pack some extra sunscreen and Cool Packs. Just in case.

Leading a just life will not gain anyone entrance to heaven. If we could get in on our own good works, we wouldn't need Jesus. (Eph.2:8,9). Only by the blood of Jesus can you get to heaven.
(Jn.14:6).

The 144 thousand are male virgins of the twelve tribes of Isreal who are marked with the seal of God.(Rev. 7:4, 14:3,4). Anyone who has their name written in the book of life will be allowed in Heaven. (Rev.21:27).

The third judgement - judged on the fruits of their...?

The New Testament was written by Romans for Romans - it is retroffited Paganism.
144,000 IS 144,000 still. That doesn't even cover the annual aborted.

There is no Heaven in the Torah. That's Yahweh's book.

Ask the Vatican. The 2nd Vatican Council Catholic Church disagrees with you. God is no fool- He would not save only 144,000 individuals and expect the rest of His creations to continue following him- it's not self-absorbed, it's human. The long-term desire of just about every human being is to be happy, and to find the best outlet to be so and allow others to be so. Yahweh is not the God I know and worship. Yahweh is the God in the Torah. He is God under a different lens. Yahweh never spoke a word in either testament of the bible. God did. God did not damn me, you, or anyone else because their blood was not desirable. In the original Bible, it has been and always will be interpreted as any truly just human is able to achieve salvation. The blood of Jesus is irrelevant, or you wouldn't see a soul at Church services. You wouldn't see a Pope, a council of Cardinals, dioceses of Bishops and Priests. You wouldn't see nuns. You wouldn't see holy virgins. You would not see laymen. You would see nobody, because there is no point in following a Lord who has already damned you. I would not believe in that Lord, not only because it is not right, but because it is depressing and pointless for everyone. The Bible is nothing if not cryptic- what makes you think those verses are to be taken literally? How do you know that the Seal of God or the Blood of Christ (which you cannot have, because, well, he never had children) are not grace, sinlessness, or literally the transubstatiated wine served at mass? How do you know the twelve tribes means the same thing here as in other parts of the bible? How do you know 144,000 means 144,000? I know there is no Heaven in the Torah. And I don't read the Torah. I don't follow the Torah. I don't believe in the Torah. I am a child of God who is faithful that he will one day allow me into the kingdom of Heaven if I should serve him well and serve him with faith. Every christian religion has followed that belief, that there is a way to get into heaven without the nonexistent blood of Jesus (unless, of course, you mean the Blood at Mass, in which case it very much so does exist). Catholic, Protestant, Puritan, Calvinist, Baptist, Mormon, and every other denomination under the sun understands that salvation is within reach for the normal man.

tl;dr
because paragraphs are a thing,,,

For the love of - wait for it - the GodS, look it up.
Or are you calling Yahweh a liar?

Admittedly, i should've indented. I got a bit heated, so I apologize.
"The numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are variously interpreted in traditional Christianity. Some, taking the numbers in Revelation to be symbolic,[4] believe it represents all of God's people throughout history in the heavenly Church.[5] One suggestion is that the number comes from 12, a symbol for totality, which is squared and multiplied by one thousand for more emphasis. Others insist the numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are literal numbers and representing either descendants of Jacob (also called Israel in the Bible) or others to whom God has given a superior destiny with a distinct role at the time of the end of the world.[6] One understanding is that the 144,000 are recently converted Jewish evangelists sent out to bring sinners to Jesus Christ during the seven year tribulation period.[7] Preterists believe they are Jewish Christians, sealed for deliverance from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Dispensationalist Tim LaHaye, in his commentary Revelation: Illustrated and Made Plain (Zondervan, 1975), considers the 144,000 in Revelation 7 to refer to Jews and those in Revelation 14 to refer to Christians.[8]" (Wikipedia).
None of these interpretations explicitly state that 144,000 individuals will go to Heaven. The following paragraph in the article reads that Jehovah's Witnesses believe so, while everyone who remains is left either to hell or to a restored Paradise on Earth, whichever they deserve.
You were right in that Yahweh is God, I should have looked into that. It means the same thing as Jehovah, and I apologize on that front as well. I never heard a word from Yahweh (who is actually Yhwh) in the Bible, only God. However, what is written in the Torah is written in the Torah, and what is written in the Bible is written in the Bible. You claim that the Torah is Yhwh's book, and if so, that means the Bible is not. Therefore, there is a disconnect in how God is seen. I believe that of all of the Christian religions (Plus Judaism and Islam) have been somewhat confused by the word of God, and taken on their own meaning, besides Catholicism- there is the oldest and most widely accepted interpretation of the word of God. The interpretation has somewhat changed, which means that the Catholic church is receptive to such (I mean, the 2VC happened), and yet there has been no massive change in how we see Heaven. There's a reason for that.

dang indents dont work here ig

oh pfff the second one implies that, im dumb
well, that's not the interpretation I am accustomed to.

Ok i'm confused- as a Catholic, I find that both Catholics who are just and truly just Gentiles will go to Heaven- I don't know what book you're quoting, but it's only extremely scary

Are Atheists the only ones that read the Bible? Other than the occasional Christian with a couple of quotes to justify their position, Octavia seems to be the only one whose ever looked at one here.

who's*

I don't need belief where that is concerned. The Lord I follow is good, and never had said that. If it were so, there would be none of us. If it were so, there would be no point in continuing on. If the number doesn't cover the annual aborted, then all faith would be forfeit. Simply put, God will send his true faithful to heaven. Let me believe what I believe, and I will let you not believe.

Belief is irrelevant, the word of Yahweh as written in the NT is... well... Roman.
Like the rest of that tome, of course he never said any of it.
Being in denial of what the faith itself maintains isn't going to help those in denial if those words were indeed the Lord's and not Roman.

If your only point to follow is a to be rewarded an eternity in a bowl of cotton candy in the sky, then you are missing the point. I'd remind you what Jesus said about being born again but we both know his words matter not to you nor to most of the self-professed believers, hence the low number that book says shall be saved.

Hi _bowtie_bovine

I've realized I've overlooked your meme and happened to write something about Eternal Security that is actually in relations to this.

imgflip.com/i/5kwwdd

My answer to your question is that it is still valid, even if you've left Christianity. If you are saved then when you leave Christianity you will eventually come back to it.

There are three main reasons for leaving:

1. Disillusionment
2. Faith being ruined
3. Sin

People have left the faith for the reasons stated in 1 & 2, but the Bible is mute on those. Instead, it speaks of 3. I think it is because if it is for 1 & 2, the saved person will surely come back. That leaves 3 because people come to Christ for various reasons & not all of them are correct reasons

Some come to Christ for the perks, others just so they'll be safe from damnation.-- neither one truly repented & believe (Mark 1:15 & 1 Corinthians 15:3). And when they're confronted with their sins, when they're no longer benefitting, Christianity becomes unpopular, or when persecution arises, they'll leave & never return (Matthew 13:18-23 & 1 John 2:15-16).

And still others have had a preconceived notion of God, but when they begin to hear from His words that offends them, they'll leave.

If they truly believe, the Holy Spirit will convict them of it, telling them that they must accept God for who He is & not what they want Him to be. However, if they're not saved, they have only their conscience. If their conscience tells them the same thing, they'll ignore it & stubbornly keep the god they want. With these people, they are guilty of idolatry (Exodus 20:3).

SCRIPTURES ONLINE:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+1%3A15%2C+1+Corinthians+15%3A3%2C+Matthew+13%3A18-23%2C+1+John+2%3A15-16%2C+Exodus+20%3A3&version=ESV

Thank you :]

Hi _bowtie_bovine, it is posted.

Thank you.

You're welcome. :)

A bit of clarification, it is valid if you're truly saved.

I will make a meme on that topic and will let you know when it is posted.

Yes, even if you turn your back on God, he will never turn his back on you. Even if you turn out to be worse than Hitler, if you trusted Jesus as your Savior once, you will still be part of God’s family

Thank youm

That's a good question. I'll counter with my own: if someone walks out of the Faith, were they seriously committed in the first place?

Fair enough. But say, as a kid, the person was forced into the religion and therefore knew nothing better and was guided blindly like a child would. And then when the child is older, they stray away from the faith.

That's why a child should be TAUGHT in the way he should go, not forced.

I agree (:

Well my childhood is a lie.

Well, it's not too late to choose G-D of your own free will.

its never too late up until the day you die. and yes i agree as well, that for anything a child should be taught and offered the choice, not forced into anything.

Personally I think that Jesus knows all people have differing ways they look at things so if he was real he’d understand if someone didn’t believe in him and he wouldn’t exclude them for their religious opinions seeing as all of us were built with the ability to have our own idea of what is right and true.

Well I'm definitely not an expert, but I thiiiiink as I understand it getting into *Heaven* (after death, up until Judgement Day) depends on believing in God and accepting Jesus, but like at the End of Time or whatever after God has proven himself to be real, all you have to do is accept forgiveness for your sins, and you will be forgiven, meaning you're cleansed of sin due to what Jesus did, meaning you can live with God in eternity forever in the new Heaven on Earth. I think.

Well I’m not so sure I believe in him but if he’s real I believe I’d be let in heaven

Then again, KKK was christian, So...

Hmm?

Hmm

It's impossible to stray away from Christianity. If you do "stray" away, then it's probably because you were never saved in the first place.

Actually no, you can stray, the Bible says so, but even if you do stray, you can never be plucked from Jesus’ hand

True, but what I think he was asking is whether you would still be in the Book of Life even if you no longer became a Christian (which is impossible to no longer be a Christian if you were truly saved).

Ok, yes, you unbecome a Christian

But it's impossible to unbecome a Christian. If you truly believe, you will be in the Book of Life, and that means that you won't even have a desire to stray away, unless you were never written in the first place and only went through the motions.

I can't, because you just ignore what I say, and ask for proof. Read the Bible, then that's all the proof you need. Meditate on what it says, and if you search hard, you'll find answers.

"So if somebody grows up a Christian, believes it with everything in them, is a Christian for 60 years, and then shortly before they die they walk away from it, you're saying they were never saved in the first place?"

That's exactly what I'm saying.

"It sounds to me like that's an excuse Christians make for why someone can be a Christian and then later walk away from it."

Um... I don't know if anyone told you this, but Christians don't make up stuff as excuses. We believe what the Bible says and what God tells us in the Bible.

It's pretty simple, you can "believe" for most of your life and pretend to be a Christian in the first place, you can fool anyone, but you can never fool God. If you are truly His, then you would never even have the desire to stray away in the first place.

Let me just simplify this for you.

NO Christian can ever stray away from the faith. Yes, we may not be perfect, but Jesus will never forsake us. It's IMPOSSIBLE to stray away, ONLY if you are truly His.

Being a Christian doesn't mean you follow everything the Bible says, and if we disobey, then that means we stray away. It means we believe in God, who created us, but sin came into the world, and corrupted humanity, making everyone a sinner. God says if we sin and disobey Him, we deserve to die. But Jesus payed the penalty, and died in our place. So now anyone who believes in Him will be in the Book of Life. Then we no longer have a desire to stray away, instead we can be called his children. Then we also strive to please Him and obey Him.

Many people think they're Christians because they prayed a prayer and then go on sinning and disobey God. The Bible even says that many will come before Him and say "I did miracles in your name", and God will tell them "Depart from me, I never knew you." Anyone can say they're Christian, but that doesn't mean they really are.

All that to say, you can't be a Christian and then stray away from it, it's impossible.

I've already explained everything on how a Christian can never stray away so I'm not going to explain again.

Everything you're saying at this point has nothing to do with the debate, so I'm not going to debate any longer or this will go forever.

I forgot to tell you how to ask, so I'll explain. You need to understand the Gospel is first.

This is the Gospel that Christians believe and it's based off the Bible.

In the beginning, God created the Earth in 6 days, and on the 7th he rested. Genesis 1:1. He created us to rule the animals. He also, gave us rules to follow. The first 2 humans Adam and Eve lived in a garden called the Eden. One day, Satan came and tempted Eve. God told Adam and Eve not to eat of one tree. Satan tempted them, and she disobeyed what God said. Adam came by and also ate the fruit as well. That moment plunged the world into sin. At that point, sin was in our nature. God told Adam and Eve that because they disobeyed their Creator, they would be punished. On top of that, all of humanity was destined for Hell. But that's not all He said. He said that one day, a Savior would come and give us a second chance. That Savior was God's son, Jesus. He came to Earth, lived a perfect life that no one else could live, and died for our sins. Now we get a second chance. We don't have to go to Hell. All we have to do is this: pray to Him, admit to God that you are a sinner, ask Him to forgive you of your all sins, and ask Him to come into your life. Then, follow Him. We'll never be perfect, we'll still sin, but God will convict us, and we won't have the urge to sin no more.

Anyone who does these things will truly be a Christian, one who will never stray away.

You can choose to think this is all made up, but it's your choice. Jesus wants you to come to Him, you just have to make that choice.

1. I'm curious, why do you listen to Christian music and study it if you think it's all fake?

2. Tell me where you see a contradiction in the Bible.

3. When you ask to forgive God of your sins, you also have to repent, which means to not do them again. And if you do that sin again, ask God to forgive you of it. You can't just ask God to reveal Himself to you, then go on saying the Bible is fake and say you don't believe in Him and that's it. You have to commit. And if you do, God will help guide you. Without Him, I don't think any Christian would keep to the faith.

4. You choose to believe that it's false. Also, what evidence do you have that it's false?

5. He does tell you, just not physically. He tells you in the Bible. If you don't believe in the Bible, then you don't believe the Gospel, which then means Jesus won't come to you. He'll come to those who believe and follow what he says in the Bible.

You will just continue in unbelief until God reveals it to you, no matter what I say.

Because you don't want to believe in Him. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you and truly mean it. He will listen.

I can give all the evidence in the world, and you would still ask for proof. I gave you proof, I told you what a Christian really is, and you seem to just ignore it.

It's simple, no evidence needed. If you you stray away from Christianity, you were never given salvation or never became a Christian in the first place. You either believe it or deny it, but you'll probably just ask for proof anyway.

The reason why John says that Jesus said taught these things openly is because he was only talking to his disciples. He only explained things openly to his disciples because he wanted them to be prepared for when they have to run the new church in Jerusalem in Acts. In Mark, Jesus was saying that everyone else will not understand because they don't have the Holy Spirit in them. If people who don't have the Spirit "figure out the parables", then most likely, they take it out of context. For example, when Jesus says not to judge others, people are thinking, "Oh, you can't judge my sin because Jesus says not to." What he actually meant was hypocritical sin. He was saying that don't judge people of their sins when you are doing the exact same thing. Figure out your sin, then you can help the other one figure out their sins.

I hope these things will explain a lot.

1. Well I pray that one day you will believe it and study it for His glorify Him.

I'm gonna explain each "contradiction"

1 Samuel and 1 Chronicles both say that Saul died by killing himself. 2 Samuel says a guy killed him. What actually happened was that Saul killed himself, and the guy was lying. He figured if he said he killed Saul, David would reward him, which didn't end up being the case.

Matthew actually says there was (past tense) an earthquake, and then the woman came to the tomb when it was already rolled away. So actually, they all say the tomb was already rolled away.

I checked, and I didn't see any contradictions on it. For example, 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles both say that Rehoboam became king when he was 41. No contradiction. I saw a few others, and they were coherent.

Actually, Matthew was quoting a prophecy from Jeremiah and Zachariah. But Matthew just says Jeremiah because he was the most well-known out of the two.

James never said that works saves you. He said that if you don't show that you have faith, but claim to that faith, then that faith is just dead. You can't just say you have faith, but continue to deny Him. The works he means is the fruit of the Spirit.

There's no such thing as being neutral. You're either for Him or against. You either deny Him or believe in Him.

This one's a popular one. Matthew says that he threw the money to ground, that's true. But then it goes on to say that the priests were the one who bought the field. Luke just says that he bought the field because technically he bought the field, but it wasn't physically him who bought it. It was blood money.

Actually, what happened was they left at dark, and got there by dawn. John says that it was dark, but never says that they got there at dark. So they actually say they either left at dark and got there at dawn, or they just simply say they got there at dawn.

There was actually 2 angles at the tomb. What happened was the ones who said 1 angle was only mentioning the one who spoke. Another example was when Matthew says there was 2 blind men who were healed by Jesus, but others say 1. That's because only one of them spoke.

There's not really any contradiction about that. They all don't say the same story exactly. They give it in different perspectives. One would say that they told one group (for example The Twelve), and another one would say that they spoke to others. In reality, they gave the news to both groups of people.

1. If you don't notice a difference, then that means you don't mean it. You want to mean it, but you also want to deny it.

2. Christians can't demonstrate the Holy Spirit or show it to you physically. Jesus gives a good example in John. He says it's like the wind. You can feel it's presence and know it's there, but you can't see it. The fruits of the Spirit is something that Christians do because we want to obey God. Others can do them, but it's because they just wanna look good in front of others.

3. The Bible is a book written by humans who were inspired by God to write them. So it's technically Gid written.

4. If you don't believe what the Bible says and think it's false and full of contradictions, then you're not gonna believe the Gospel, which is written in the Bible. Believing the Gospel, repenting your sins, and asking Jesus into your heart is what saves you.

5. So you do want to believe in Him, but still wanna be an atheist?

I forgot to mention one of the contradictions about baptism. The verses says that those who aren't baptized aren't saved because once you're saved, the next step is baptism. The verses don't say you have to be baptized to be saved, they just say they being baptized is an indication to other believers that you are saved. Just know, if you are baptized, that wasn't what saved you.