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This is what Trump Supporters want.

This is what Trump Supporters want. | image tagged in maga,2020,dumbasses,flat-earther,science denial,smooth brain | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
185 views 23 upvotes Made by Cerebrophage 4 months ago in politicsTOO
33 Comments
4 ups, 4m,
1 reply
... and there were no vaccines, rights for minorities, abortions or members of LGBT.
Again, this is what Trump supporters want.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
The ignorance here is astounding.

- Vaccines weren't suppressed, they simply hadn't yet been invented (though it was known that people who survived an illness generally didn't get it again, so the concept was understood, if simply).

- Can't have 'minority rights' when your population is almost entirely of one ethnic group.

- Abortions, sadly, have been a thing for thousands of years. The most certainly were a thing during the Middle Ages.

- There were absolutely LGBTQ+ folks around. Just because that name doesn't exist doesn't mean the people didn't. Don't go pretending like they weren't around just for the sake of a cheap talking point.
1 up, 4m,
2 replies
Your LGBTQ argument makes sense, I'll agree to that.

The first documented abortion happened in 16th century Egypt, which is normally considered to be in the Age of Exploration, not the dark ages.

You absolutely can have minority rights, when the group in question is literally the minority! You even said it yourself!

Plus, I never said vaccines were suppressed, I said there were none of them.
1 up, 4m
However, even if there were LGBTQ people, they certainly weren't treated as equals.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
https://www.thoughtco.com/when-did-abortion-begin-721090

Incorrect. That was the first documented abortion, yes, but we know for many reasons that it has been around practically since civilization itself sprung up.

What minority? Slaves were more of a caste than a minority, since various powers across the West practiced slavery and enslaved people of all races. It's a technical distinction, but an important one.

Ah, but you also said Trumpists want to return us to a time of no vaccines as there was in the Dark Ages. I'm pointing out that not knowing something exists and willfully suppressing them are two very different things. I'd also point out that the vast majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle get most vaccines, so this really isn't a point you should be trying to argue except as an exercise in futility.

Regarding your note about LGBTQ+ equality below, I'd say that's not accurate either. The Greeks and Romans were wildly into gay sex. It was considered normal. Many monarchs and figures of import were clearly into freaky sexual practices which we'd today consider LGBTQ+ categories, so it was in all likelihood treated differently, at least in part, compared to today.
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
"What minority?" Euskaldunak/Basques, Saami/Lapps, Estonians, Rrom/Gypsies, Turks & probably others.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m
Plenty of others, yes, but my point in asking 'what minorities' was to show that they were enslaved alongside plenty of white Europeans as well. It was less about race and more just that slavery was considered relatively normal back then.
4 ups, 4m,
1 reply
. . . and powerful warlords and their families were at the peak of the social structure.
4 ups, 4m,
1 reply
Sounds like the Trump party alright
5 ups, 4m
And like the Kims . . .
4 ups, 4m,
1 reply
And the rich controlled everything because they were rich.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m
Welcome to feudalism.
2 ups, 4m,
2 replies
Europe isn't the whole world; Abrahamic religion isn't the only religion.
4 ups, 4m
Thank "god" for that!
3 ups, 4m,
1 reply
True, but did anyone else refer to their eras to what's colloquially known as "The Dark Ages"‽
1 up, 4m,
1 reply
The wording of your question is strange so I'm not sure what you're asking. I can say that this is the era where the Mayans invented the concept of zero & a calendar that was more accurate then the Gregorian. My Cherokee ancestors were making monuments like this: as well as Cahokia city. My Tsimshian ancestors were traveling as far as the arctic & the Oregon/California border trading with every tribe along the way. The seafaring Haida people actually made contact with the seafaring Hawai'ians. The Hopewell people invented etching.
0 ups, 4m
Nevermind it's not worth it. What you stated in reply is obvious.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
2 replies
Utter BS. The Church was the only major Western institution that protected and taught any form of higher knowledge during the Dark Ages. This notion that it is 'anti-science' or 'anti-knowledge' does nothing but prove ignorance on the part of the accuser. I say this not to slight you, but in the sincere hope that you try to give Catholicism a fair shake here.
1 up, 4m,
1 reply
Catholicism was the government. They owned state. They made the laws. Ever heard of the inquisition?
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
There's a great book you should read called 'Bearing False Witness'. It was written by an avowedly non-Catholic (atheist, if I recall correctly) historian. Nobody says we as a Church have been perfect, but that book is a great way to quickly clear up a lot of popular misconceptions about the Church throughout history. I 10/10 recommend.
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
I don't even have time for my leisurely books, let alone studious books.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
That's just sad, my friend. It's not too much of a read and is very engaging. I bet you could bust it out within a couple of weeks without too much time expended.
0 ups, 4m
I have an autistic son, and a very high-needs 4 month old. Then, I need time for me to cool off. I come here to stay informed about bull-shit the right wing will try to throw, and hopefully find people that I can change their perspective. Kinda silly that I follow news based off of the logical fallacies presented here.

Seems kinda smart to me though so that if other right-wingers (trumpian ilk) come after me with nonsense, I'm prepared.
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
2 replies
And the Catholic Church later agreed it was mistaken in the Galileo matter.

Additionally, Copernicus (Galileo's inspiration), was Catholic. Gregor Mendel, father of modern genetics? Catholic. I could go on, but I found a great list (on Wikipedia, of all places) of Catholics throughout the ages who have had a significant positive impact on arts and sciences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lay_Catholic_scientists
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
If I remember right, Copernicus realized the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, but he kept quiet about it--he knew perfectly well that honesty would bring down the wrath of his own church.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m
He wasn't in-your-face about it like Galileo was, but he wasn't afraid to defend his theory when people talked to him about it.

Galileo was imprisoned less because of his actual theory and more because he preached it in a manner that essentially said, "I know better than the Church." Right or wrong, that's not the sort of tone you take with your elders, hence his imprisonment. The Pope at the time, whose name I ALWAYS forget, even let him keep his research and writings in progress so long as Galileo in turn didn't claim to know better than the Church.

We Catholics are always maligned and usually so out of ignorance on the part of others (not necessarily you in this conversation, I'm speaking in generalistic terms), so I always try to present history as it happened and showcase the mistakes and successes made by both sides of any given matter.
1 up, 4m,
1 reply
Fair enough, but their apology doesn't change the notion that it was the dark ages.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
Just because the world was somewhat backwards compared to our situation today doesn't mean we should write it off entirely. Had the Church not done what it did during that time, it's entirely likely that we'd know a tiny fraction of what we know today regarding ancient history, culture, and traditions. That's a pretty big win for a dark era.
1 up, 4m,
1 reply
Do you know what happened in the crusades?
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m,
1 reply
A lot of different things, depending on the Crusade in question. 1st? Wild success that opened the Holy Land up to Pilgrims again...every one after that?

...

Not so great. The Fourth especially comes to mind...
1 up, 4m,
1 reply
Honestly, there's only the one that I know about where they headed to the middle east to kill any "infidel" that didn't jive with Christianity.
[deleted]
0 ups, 4m
There were eight major Crusades to the Middle East over the course of roughly two centuries, if I recall correctly. The first was initiated in the *dredges up old historical knowledge* 11th century, IIRC, because pilgrims to the Holy Land were being denied access by its Muslim rulers. The Crusade retook the Holy Land, established a new kingdom there, and reopened it to all pilgrims from all religions. Arguably it was one of the more impressive military campaigns of that century.

Of the following seven, only two others met with any similar degree of success. Most were general failures (for a variety of reasons), and some were downright awful. The Fourth was completely sidetracked and sacked Constantinople, capitol of the Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Catholic, not Muslim, mind you) and is considered one of the worst embarrassments in European military history.

So they really bridged the scale from genuinely noble cause to wretched failure.
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