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Legit reason | DOCTOR, WHY ARE WE BOTHERING WITH THESE MASKS? VIRTUE SIGNALING, OF COURSE. | image tagged in surgeon,masks,virtue signalling | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
569 views 7 upvotes Made by Sleeping_dragon 4 years ago in politics
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17 Comments
[deleted]
4 ups, 4y,
1 reply
Sigh! Surgical masks are designed to stop the transfer of bacteria from surgeon to patient and NOT much smaller viruses. The average mask is utterly porous to a virus.
0 ups, 4y,
3 replies
Double sigh! If we were trying to prevent a fully airborne virus, that would be relevant. However, the majority of COVID transmission is via respiratory droplets.

"If worn properly, a surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others."

Yes smaller droplets will make it through and yes there is leakage along the edges. It isn't perfect, but it isn't useless either.

What's funny to me, is you guys could argue on scientific merit. If you actually dig down, the % decrease in transmission is minor (of course, with exponential growth, every little bit counts).

You could acknowledge the minor gains but still argue against their use based on the false sense of security some people display when wearing them. That coupled with people wearing them wrong and re-using them would have been harder to refute.

But instead you focus on virus size, which skips the middle step of delivery method. Its like saying spraying for mosquitos won't reduce the spread of malaria because malaria is a virus, not an insect.
[deleted]
2 ups, 4y,
1 reply
Pssst . . . nobody is wearing surgical masks; most people are wearing common cloth masks or the rediculous paper and fiber things that are essentially all for show . . . for virtue signalling . . . and for meeting the requirements of 'health and safety' rules rammed into place by politicians afraid of accountability.

Even YOU must have seen the various videos of smoke tests showing exhales billowing out around the edges of the average type of mask that almost everyone wears. They are all pretty much useless. So it really is just pious virtue signalling by the Left and examples of politcians afraid to admit the truth to the voting public.
0 ups, 4y
And if it was transmitted via smoke, that would be an issue. I feel like an artillery guy yelled "incoming!", all the soldiers took cover, and there is a random guy giving a speech about how "artillery can't possibly have the range to make it this far" Keep talking. I'm ducking and covering with the experts.

Its only virtue signaling if I'm doing it to show off and signal my virtue. If I actually believe they work, that isn't virtue signaling. Is using a turn signal virtue signaling? My reaction to seeing someone without a mask isn't a sense of moral superiority, its a desire to avoid.

Even you must have seen the videos where they recorded people breathing and highlighted the distance breath (and droplets) travel with and without a mask? There were ones with thermal imaging and a few that used other methods of identifying the distance breath flowed. They've even done ones with different masks. No doubt, the better the mask, the more effective.
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
Not what I heard. It is an aerosol with long residence time in the nose. The large droplet theory has been refuted I believe.
0 ups, 4y,
2 replies
i believe it was refuted that there was no airborne transmission. There is some airborne transmission of droplets small enough to be free floating, but the viral load is often not large enough in those small droplets to cause infection.

Honestly, it's been a while since i read that so I may have some details wrong. But I'm pretty sure the largest method by far was judged to be large droplets and inhalation.
0 ups, 4y,
1 reply
Fauci and CDC have been misleading from the very beginning,

The agency's website now explains that when a person infected with COVID-19 exhales, a mix of larger droplets and smaller particles that contain the virus are released into the air. Gravity pulls the largest droplets quickly to the ground, but the smaller virus-containing particles can stay suspended in the air “for minutes to hours” and can be breathed in by others — even by those who are more than 6 feet away. Previously, the CDC maintained that COVID-19 was thought to only “sometimes” spread this way.

Source:
https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2021/cdc-rules-on-aerosol-coronavirus.html
0 ups, 4y
And that same AARP link you provided still says to wear masks.
"If an infected person wears a mask, then the “rate of release of these aerosol particles in an indoor environment can be much lower,” Corsi explains, which means there's essentially less virus in the air to be inhaled by others. Masks can also protect the wearer by blocking fine droplets and particles from being inhaled."

Fauci and the CDC have not been misleading. Fauci has been very clear in every interview I've seen from him that he is conveying guidance based on the latest information available to him. Some just aren't used to seeing how the sausage is made. This is how science works. Someone does a study. Someone else does a study. If one contradicts the others, they look at methodology to see if they can figure out why the discrepancy. Someone likely then does another study with methodology adjusted based on those first two. It is an ongoing process. Normally we would be more shielded from this back and forth. For something less deadly the CDC would take a conservative stance and wait until things had settled to issue updated guidance. But COVID is more deadly and they have issued guidance a lot more frequently than they normally would.

**This is how it usually works, we just aren't used to getting updates so frequently.**

It may very well come out that mask don't work. Maybe the percentage decrease in spread is due to the fact that people taking masks seriously are more likely to be taking the rest of it seriously such as social distancing and hand washing. But with where we are at, the conservative stance would be to wear the mask. Yes, there should perhaps be a push for better mask maintenance (washing them, changing them out, using disposables, etc.).

But if you think it will be a gotcha if it comes out that way, it won't be for me. Maybe its being in security. I see that there are conflicting studies, but a cost benefit analysis lands me in 'wear the mask'. Or to simplify:
There is conflicting guidance on whether this works, but the organization who's job is to wade through the conflicts currently says to do it. OK, what does it cost? Very little. Ok, do it.
0 ups, 4y,
2 replies
This is what came up when I asked Siri how it spreads.

• Current evidence suggests that the virus spreads mainly between people who are in close contact with each other, typically within 1 metre (short-range). A person can be infected when aerosols or droplets containing the virus are inhaled or come directly into contact with the eyes, nose, or mouth.Apr 30, 2021.
1 up, 4y
Completely WRONG!
See my other comments on this meme
0 ups, 4y,
1 reply
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html#:~:text=The%20principal%20mode%20by%20which,fluids%20carrying%20infectious%20virus.
0 ups, 4y,
1 reply
That says essentially what I posted. The newest is that fine aerosols are inhaled or fall on mucous membranes. It recommends the same precautions, but it is definitely different than the previous large droplet only theory.
1 up, 4y
100% agree. Large droplet only theory was out months ago. Masks help. They aren't a perfect solution. They are a motorcycle helmet. They are potential harm reduction.
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
From SEPTEMBER 2020
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32717211/

Look at Figure 3. 87% of exhaled virus laden aerosols are less than 1 nanometer. An N95 mask lets FIVE percent of everything greater than 3 nanometers pass through. There is NO measurement of how much it filters smaller than 3 nanometers.
0 ups, 4y
I'm reasonably smart and pretty good at reading and understanding stuff. That said, the CDC's job is to look at all of the studies and synthesize that into the best guidance available. I'll read studies and if something seems to squarely contradict the CDC guidance, that is one thing. But nobody says masks are perfect - but they help.

Yes you need a respirator (N-95 or better) for smoke particles. But looking at the way smoke spreads in air and the way aerosol and liquid droplets spread are not the same. You ignore the thermal videos that demonstrate how far breath travels; I'm going to ignore pics showing how masks don't stop smoke.
2 ups, 4y,
1 reply
What happens when a surgeon sweats? Someone else wipes his sweat off. Normal people touch their face 30 times an hour and 20 of those times are in an area where mucous membranes are present. Covid can live on cloth for 2 days. I know you can't do math so let me dumb this down. Masks don't do crap. Non 95 masks are a joke. Nobody is changing or washing their masks every 4 hours. Cases and deaths exploded after masks were mandated. You are a useless parrot that can't handle thinking for yourself. Don't bother writing some dumb spiel because i can see how useless it would be to read it already.
0 ups, 4y
I agree that better mask maintenance would be more effective. I have several n95's and cycle through them.

Cases blew up after masks were mandated. Or masks were mandated when cases were predicted to spike.

There are graphs I've seen that support both. There are other factors to look at. There have been cases where it looked like people were getting it more with masks. But in sine of those areas it was mandatory mask use except in restaurants and contact tracers determined that was where most infections were occurring.

But since I don't believe in some complex conspiracy where getting us to cover our mouths during a pandemic is just one step...I see no reason why they would lie. No cost, no motive, potential gain.
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DOCTOR, WHY ARE WE BOTHERING WITH THESE MASKS? VIRTUE SIGNALING, OF COURSE.