Hmmm...

Actually it was 10 million more, in 2016 he had 64 million, in 2020 he had 74 million. - 10 million more but lost by 5 million??? When I heard that today that even struck me as weird.

Oh yeah. I forgot the recent count lol

When a president does badly, their vote count doesnt go up, it goes down. Trump’s went up by far and he still lost by a landslide...

I am trying not to get wrapped up in a lot of what ifs.. it looks like Biden is going to be President.. but I swear to God, if Trump pulls off a win with the SCOTUS and throws the left into a wave of despair.. I will be one happy guy. Lol

Yeah the left has a lot of issues right now. Someone needs to put them in their place. And I think if the left gets away with this election, we’ll never have a Republican again.

And just like in China ( their model country) if you speak out against the government you'll be arrested and sent to reeducation camps.

Yeah. People act like communism has nothing to do with the left and right. I read a biography where someone was persecuted because their FATHER was a rightist in the Cultural Revolution. And the tactics used in the CR are far too much like the modern left.

saying communism has nothing to do with the left or right is nonsensical , it absolutely is left. - I can see where it can get muddled , as both right and left in extremes rely on government control to suppress its own citizens.

Yeah. I wish people would be self responsible instead of dependent on the government. You never hear “I got successful because I got a handout from the government.” You do hear “I was poor, but I worked hard, and now I’m not poor.”

that is capitalism, but people don't want to work hard, that is the entire problem with the "entitled generation" we are seeing now.

Yeah you’re right about that.

Under this Prez, anyone in his administration who speaks out against him gets fired. You could completely disagree with Obama and nothing would happen to your job.

W said that three years ago, you're in good company.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a13267793/george-bush-last-republican-president-comment/

But, label or no label, true Republican or not, DJT did some outstanding stuff in his time. Yes, you're right, it might have a detrimental effect on the party overall, but I don't think that it's insurmountable. Think how low Republicans must have felt in 1976 and then four years later we got Reagan!

No itll be a democrat rule forever, they will change the voting demographic by making 20 million illegals citizens.. turned Puerto rico and DC into their own states gaining 4 more senate seats , they will pass legislation that would tax gun owners into oblivion, so only the ultra rich will have guns.. and basically turn American into a 2 world country, the ultra rich and the ultra poor. Just like they want.

Well tbh the ultra rich will just be the government, since they want to eliminate richness from the country. (Which turns countries into third world countries).

exactly - also like Bezos , Zuckerberg , Soros , and the other big time donors to leftist government.

Oh yeah.

We've always had wealthy people. After 50 million, does your life really improve with more money? What is it for? Is it contributing to society in any way?

Bezos could give all workers a $105,000 bonus with the additional wealth he has accumulated since March this year. Instead, he's given 20,000 employees covid.

What makes you think Biden isn't looking out for the little guy and the middle class?

You think Trump is watching out for you?

The beginning of the end for the middle class was the early 70's. The largest transfer of wealth in world history began with trickle down economics, instituted by Reagan in early 80's. The right has consistently stuck with trickle down, insisting that giving to the rich makes all do better even when there are no strings attached. The rich have vastly outstripped the middle class and trickle down has not worked, ever.

I have no problem not taxing even the wealthiest individual if they can show they have created some kind of growth in jobs. Lower taxes on the wealthy must always be tied to increases in jobs and it is not under any Republican Prez.

The Democratic financial system is notorious for shafting the middle class. And the rich get taxed (some can handle it). The problem is that people get successful from hard work, not government handouts. Which means if you want the poor to succeed, don’t do the Democrat system. The Native Americans live off the government, and are not very successful people. If our poor live off the government (which will be the only rich people in the country under this system), none will get successful. All we’re doing is eliminating the rich and jacking over the middle class so now EVERYONE is poor.

“Giving to the rich” No one argues to do that.

Lower taxes on the rich is exactly what Republicans do. Republicans favor businesses, which create more jobs. The reason unemployment went down at the end of Obama’s tenure is that a percentage of people quit looking for jobs, and if you quit searching, they take you out of the unemployment count. So anyone telling you Obama paved the way to Trump’s record low unemployment rates is plain wrong.

You're kinda right in that Republicans favor business but you're completely incorrect in assuming that creates more jobs. Reality is the complete opposite. A primary focus of every business is eliminating as many workers as possible. What is the first thing a bank does when they buy another branch? They lay off unnecessary workers. Big business is notorious for laying off workers.

The rich do not gain their wealth through hard work. They gain additional wealth through capital gains on investments. Capital gains is taxed at a very low rate. The rich have made sure of that because they own our gov officials because we cannot get campaign finance reform. Working stiffs get taxed at a high rate. 200k a year is not wealth. 400k a year isn't wealth. I'm talking about people who have a net worth of 50 million and have no need to work for generations. YOU CAN'T TAX THAT KIND OF MONEY AWAY. I'm not saying they should be taxed at 90% but even if they were, they still would never have to work EVER again.

The Dow averages 8% growth a year. 8% growth on 50mil a year, after 90% taxation would leave you with $400,000 income a year. You would still have the $50,000,000 nest egg.

If you were taxed at 50% you would earn 2mil a year without lifting a finger. That isn't work and taxing at 20% is helping no one. All that does is insure the rich vastly outstrips the working stiffs and gives them more money to figure out ways to automate systems to reduce workers further.

During the greatest growth years for the middle class, 1954-1969, the highly progressive tax rate maxed out at 90% taxation for those earning 200k and above.

High taxation on the rich, is as American as apple pie. What we have today, is not American.

When you raise taxes, not only does the middle class have to pay more, but now EVERYONE has to pay more in stores because they’ll raise prices to make sure everyone’s paid the same. So the middle class just has to pay more everywhere now.

Don’t you hear about how successful people are hard working? Businessmen, entertainers, etc. Capital gains only happen sometimes.

So big government is American? That’s literally what we were founded not to do.

And 90% taxation is insane. That means you have to be a certain level of rich to even live outside of middle class life. I’m talking about people that are trying to build success from poverty. You will always hear former poor people that got rich say, “I worked hard,” or “I toughed through those times, and here I am successful and rich.” You never hear “I got a government handout, used it, and got successful.” That just trains the poor to be lazy. This is coming from a poor person. I want to be successful, and I don’t need the government’s help. Matter of fact, everything being more expensive won’t help.

Biden says only those making above 400k will pay more in taxes.

We have not seen inflation since Obama became President, 12yrs, even as Republicans continue to cry about it. People are stretched too thin for prices to go up.

Capital gains only happen sometimes? You don't know what you're talking about.

Where did I say big government is American? I didn't.

A great example of how Republicans have their heads stuffed up their ass is their refusal to increase the minimum wage. The greatest welfare queens in America are companies like WalMart. Each walmart store on average receives $750,000 a year in subsidies to it's working poor.

Not increasing the minimum wage in fact, increases the size of government through the need to subsidize the workers who don't make enough to eat. This is not the, "free market". This is artificially deflating wages through large government handouts.

If you don't support a drastic increase in the minimum wage you in fact, support big government.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics there has been a decade of somewhat steadily declining unemployment (2009-2019.... 7 years of which were under Obama, 3 under trump.

Are they "plain wrong"?

Yes, those numbers are padded. Look up 'real' unemployment.

Ok.. So looking at 'real' unemployment, it looks like there has been a decade of steadily declining unemployment (2009-2019.... 7 years of which were under Obama, 3 under trump.)

i literally just answered why that chart would look like that.

No.. first off you tried to tell me why the chart looks the way it does.... Now you are skeptical of it's accuracy.
???

And as far as the alleged "spike" when Obama got re-elected, spikes are relative. So the Mt Everest of a spike that I cut off of the chart for this year may have dwarfed the visual representation of whatever relatively minor spike when Obama got re-elected. And speaking of which.... I don't think you could be any more wrong about "more people are employed now than any time Obama was in office."... Unemployment is roughly double what it was before Obama left office.. So it looks like a republican will once again be handing over a turd of an economy for a democrat to fix.

I mentioned why it would look like that before you even gave a chart. And I said you charted the wrong thing.

A democrat will never fix the economy. Economy increases through business, and not through government. Higher taxes means a turd economy.

If you’re talking about unemployment because of the coronavirus, there are other explanations for that. But one thing is that Democrats are pushing lockdown, so unemployment now is more their fault than Trump’s. Anyone that compares the economy right now and says it’s all Trump’s fault is just a liar. Coronavirus has cost the US a lot of money; more than Trump had raised the national debt in his entire term, while Obama didn’t need a coronavirus to double the debt.

From what i heard the spike wasn’t minor. I do remember CNN and all these other liars trying to somehow blame it on Bush, even though it happened right after Obama’s second inauguration.

Also, do you remember the housing bust? Democrats pushed the whole housing thing but when it failed, those same people blamed it on conservatives who didn’t even support it, and began lying about pushing rentals. Like we don’t have a functioning memory.

Let's look at what you said.

"The reason unemployment went down at the end of Obama’s tenure is that a percentage of people quit looking for jobs"

1. Unemployment steadily went down for 7 out of the 8 years of Obama's presidency. So saying it went down "at the end" of his presidency is misleading to say the least.

2. "..a percentage of people quit looking for jobs"..
Ya these are known as "discouraged workers" and if you're going to play that game, ok.... But be consistent. Using that to discredit Obama's numbers but not Trump's when both use the same metric is illogical. The 'real' unemployment chart I posted in response to lokiare includes discouraged workers, and as you can see, it doesn't change much of anything as far as the overall pattern of unemployment steadily declining from 2009-2019.

First off, I’m not even sure that chart is accurate because I remember there was a spike in unemployment when he got re-elected, which is missing from that chart. And statistics can be manipulated.

Trump didn’t discourage workers like Obama did. A lot more people are employed now than any time Obama was in office. Ask any economist. Your chart may carry some truth but it doesn’t tell the whole story. What you would need to chart is employment, not unemployment. Because the rules for what counts as unemployment make it easier for the chart makers to imply dishonest information.

I recommend listening to Thomas Sowell, by the way. He is a brilliant black economist who does lots of studying and knows a lot of information. He makes a lot of sense and explains things far better than I ever will.

What you mentioned in advance regarding how the chart looks seems to have relatively little or no basis in reality... and I charted the wrong thing?? We're talking about unemployment during and following obama's presidency right?

Ya Obama didn't need covid to double the debt, he had a recession/turd economy/skyrocketing unemployment handed to him to do that... a turd which as far as I know had nothing to do with increased taxes.

If you want to talk about blame, Trump blamed Obama for ebola... so it seems to me fair game to blame Trump for covid. Had ebola caused shutdowns I'm sure Obama would've been blamed for that as well. Luckily it did not, so you can just blame him for spending us out of the recession that was handed to him by a Republican.

Well.. whatever spike you're talking about must've been relatively small and incredibly short-lived. If you want to find more information about this spike you heard about I would be open to seeing it.... (doing research about what someone else heard gets old after a while. )

The housing bust.. ya there was a glut of houses being built everywhere with no buyers so banks lowered their lending standards to allow poorer people to suck up excess houses on the market... their $$ got wrapped up in however many million or billion mortgage-backed securities which were being packaged and sold.. and which of course imploded when banks began foreclosing on their overvalued homes.......... Free market capitalism in action, right?
;P

No, not wrong. All economic growth and job growth under Trump can be seen on a graph like this as a straight continuation from Obama. Trump has changed nothing.

The donald may have changed nothing as far as the economic and job growth trajectory but he has definitely changed a few things. The supreme court for one.... yikes.
:o

Yeah, that's for sure. He's also helped cultivate a whole new group of right leaning cult followers immune to reality.

Our government , both sides are the problem.. that is why I was a trump supporter in the very beginning, he was not a politician. Obama, Romney, Bush jr and Sr, Clinton ( HIllary) , are all the same person. They were all supported by the same big businesses.. now look, Biden gets in and what does he do.. he already has a big tech lobbyist in his administration. Biden is a beltway insider that will look out for who ever gives him money, that includes the Chinese over Americans. One of the reasons the middle class is struggling so bad now, is due to NAFTA signed into law in the 90s, a law that Biden fully supported. Why don't I think he will look out for the little guy you ask? Because in 50 years he never has.

And somehow you think Trump is watching out for you?

I've got news for you, Trump cares about Trump and no one else.

But IKR

IKR

ya know, more people voted in the 2020 election than any other u.s. election in history, so he would get more votes too.

You do know that’s not a proven fact, correct?

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a34574744/2020-election-voter-turnout-high/

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2020/11/10/election-maps-2020-america-county-results-more-voters/6226197002/

Yes, but dead voters and aliases helped. I’ve seen people brag about voting 5 times.

does that affect tens of millions more votes by a lot?

Mail in ballots don’t have to have ID, so Supergirl could have voted for Biden, and they could count it. Once you establish this rule, you can have one person vote 100 times. And also, since ballots are not technological and thus there’s no record of them, you can sneakily pitch ones you don’t like without being seen (and they didn’t allow republicans in to see what they were doing, so this is very likely). That would mean there’s no proof of anything wrong. A recount would be meaningless. It would also explain the 138K votes that were all for Biden.

How are you going to vote 100 times when, after your first vote your name is checked off the list?

Yes, Republicans DID see. That case was thrown out because there was no merit to it. Repubs were there. Many facilities even had cameras rolling 24-7.

Boy, you are low information! The woman who input the 138k votes for Biden made a clerical error. She corrected it in something like 2hrs after going home for the night! She's been on multiple news channels to tell her story in her own words. She is a Republican, has always voted republican and made an honest mistake that was corrected.

You are being lied to and being made a fool. You should not trust people who do that to you.

My gosh, you don’t think people can make up names? That’s why we need to require ID for voting like Canada does.

I’ve seen people brag about voting under more than one name. That case was thrown out because the people don’t care. They’d throw out video evidence. This should be taken to the Supreme Court, but I think it’ll all be pointless at this point.

Ok, do you have an explanation for the woman who found 6,000 votes changed to Biden other than throwing it out and saying it doesn’t exist?

Oh I don’t trust a whole lot of people. I don’t really trust many politics, but the left is another level right now. Their political leaders are just corrupt cretins that play with people’s rage just to get support. As soon as you do that I don’t trust a word you say because you’re basically acting like Hitler, because that’s exactly how he got into power. This crap that Trump is like Hitler because people don’t like him is just ridiculous.

Dead voters have been debunked.

No they haven’t, and “debunked” is a useless left word that just means “i say it didn’t happen.”

Tell that to all the living voters who found themselves on Republican lists of "dead voters", who would be disenfranchised for no reason if Republican claims were taken more seriously.

You just assumed they’re all alive?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/technology/dead-voters-false-claims.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/18/dead-voter-conspiracy-theory-debunked

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12885200

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/election-us-2020-54874120

it is.