In the 60's there was fight over having a Marxist revolution or continuing the gradual take over. The Marxists are at it again.

eyyy 60's united states. when the government said "f**k all" to all peoples' 1st amendment rights

It's true, the goverment used attack American Socialists --https://depts.washington.edu/iww/justice_dept.shtml
but they fought on and won the five day work week anyway.
Enjoy your weekend, and remember how you got it!

Henry Ford was NOT a Socialist. He was paying his workers higher wages than his competitors. The work day was set to 8 hours and he gave his workers Saturday and Sunday off. This all happened long before the first Union was ever organized in the United States.

If you want to thank anyone for your weekend then you have to thank the Christians and Jews. The Christian sabbath is Sunday and the Jewish sabbath is Saturday. God commanded that we not work on the sabbath. Long before the Karl Marx was born. Long before the bloody French Socialist Revolution. God gave us the weekend.

That is the myth labor unions like to tell union members. The only thing unions did was get laws passed to force all businesses to comply.

Unions (which were started by Socialists) do not understand the free market. They cherry pick a few bad businesses and paint all businesses with the same brush.

However, about the time the unions came into existence there were still a lot of businesses operating based on the English model which made it harder on employees. That has been changing over the years and it is not because of unions (who at their highest only made up 13% of the work force). It was the free market. Businesses started seeing productivity levels go up when they made the work environment more favorable for employees. Much of that happened in my life time (I'm 62) because I have watched the work environment change dramatically from when I first started working.

Unions had nothing to do with that. It wall about understanding human nature and the free market.

Unions do a great job for union members but they hurt the consumer. A free market is driven by the consumer and not labor. Karl Marx (who pretty much codified modern Socialism) was a proponent of the Labor Theory. He didn't come up with that theory, he just incorporated it. The problem is that the Labor Theory was pretty much proven false before Marx came along. It starts with the idea that labor drives the market, not the consumer. If means that if you open a sandwich shop and sell Italian subs and I open a sandwich shop across the street and I sell caca sandwiches that because it took the same about of labor to build the Italian sub and the caca sandwich that both sandwich shops must be paid the same. The two sandwiches should be sold at the same price.

But where do you think the consumer will go? It won't be to my sandwich shop. It doesn't matter how much labor I put into my sandwich the consumer, unless they are forced, will never by my sandwiches. And that is where Unions and Socialism comes in. They will force you to buy equal numbers of my sandwiches as you buy of the Italian subs. When that happens both sandwich shops will go out of business and the economy will collapse.

It has been proven historically that free market consumer based economies cause all income levels to prosper, while Socialist labor driven markets end up just like Venezuela. The chant should not be "workers of the world unite" it should be "consumers of the world unite".

But labor unions ONLY did that for the businesses they infested. As I said that was only about 13% (at the highest) of all labor in the US.

Did it ever occur to you that most bosses, when they found workers that they liked, did everything in their power to keep them. That meant improving safety conditions.

I used to work at a Chevron refinery. Much of the labor force was unionized. The unions made their demands on Chevron as well as OSHA. In some states unions cannot force themselves on businesses. Businesses can fire the union and go non-union. Chevron could have easily done that in those states but the didn't.

Instead what Chevron did was double down on safety. They went above and beyond what the unions and OSHA mandated. They have invested billions of dollars into safety because, as they tell all employees, union or non-union, they want you to go home in the same condition you came there that day. Chevron didn't have to do that. They were free to choose to do that. That IS what the free market is all about.

Exxon doesn't do that. They just go with the minimum requirements of the union and OSHA. They have the freedom to operate that way also.

I am a software developer and I worked on Chevron's intranet website when I worked there. There are no software developer unions that I know of. Even if there were I would not join because I have no use or need of union representation, especially at the cost of 17% of my wages. I can negotiate my own employment contracts. I don't need someone else to do it for me. If an employer doesn't meet what I want I have the freedom to look for another job rather than force that employer to give me what I want.

hold up, do you mean the american socialist kept fighting or the government kept on fighting

Well, eventually the government got on board too, of course. But the Wobblies and their allies led the way, and, yes Abbey, Henry Ford was not a socialist. However, he didn't do that entirely out of his own beneficence: workers had to stand up for their rights.

You are highly deluded. Hank was a visionary and his methods of manufacturing are the basis of all the continuous improvement theories promoted in business today. Funny I’ve heard Ford called a Nazi and now a socialist bwahahahah. He was not a Socialist nor a Nazi he was an innovative American businessman who paid his workers enough to make them purchasers of his products. He also attracted the best talent to his operation by offering a 40 hour workweek. Stop with the socialist appropriation.

Oh wait, I’ll correct that, his aid* to Nazi Germany. That’s better

Oh so you think he was a socialist too?

And that was the point of the whole conversation above. Nazis were socialists and leftists as are all totalitarian forms of government.

He never worked against his country and he wasn’t a socialist. He held some views many find repugnant in modern society. He was not complicit simply because a bad actor agreed with some things he said. That’s the problem with the critical history revisionists. They try and define a historical figures by modern litmus tests not by contemporary standards of the times they lived and prevelant beliefs,

Yes and how you hate American icons don’t you. Guess what the Romans enslaved entire populations and the Muslims forced people to convert to Islam at the point of a sword. Chairman Mao and Stalin weren’t Humanitarians and Fidel Castro did not lead his nation out of poverty. History is filled with people who did things modern society finds reprehensible your inability to separate modern sensibilities from historic acts belies either a lack of intelligence or disingenuous arguments,

So true, the enemy is within.

Those are the Normandy landings. They're the OG Antifa. You're passing off Nazis as socialists again when, for the hundredth time, they were Nationalists first and Socialists second, and socialists not at all after the Night of the Long Knives.

The OG Antifa were Communists who fought against Fascism. Fascism is Communism that allows business owners to keep running their companies but they no longer own their business. Communists hated that and called that right wing. It is a hair's width to the right of Communism but with all of the variation of Socialism if you deviate by 1% then you must be killed. That is why Italian Socialists murdered Benito Mussolini.

Nazi is an acronym for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. The German translates to English as National Socialist German Workers' Party. Nationalism wasn't Germany's problem. It never was. It was always Socialism. Socialism gave Hitler the power to murder 12 million people. Nationalism just means a government that puts their nation first. It may or may not be a bad thing but it never gave Hitler the power to murder people. It was always Socialism. Nationalism does not take all property rights from the individual, which includes the right to your own life.

Clearly Hitler's nationalism was bad but Mussolini was not a Nationalist like Hitler and he was evil also. Stalin was an Internationalist. He called himself an "International Socialist" and he was clearly evil. In terms of the number of people murdered, Stalin was more evil than Hitler.

I want absolutely NOTHING to do with a political philosophy takes all political power from the individual. Socialism takes possession of the individual's life and determines if it is of any value to society. If not then the individual is expendable. That is what Margaret Sanger (Planned Parenthood founder) was trying to do. Planned Parenthood was formed to breed out the black race altogether through birth control and abortion (it was called "The Negro Project") and she believed poor people were poor because of genetics and she wanted to breed them out also. She was a Socialist.

Biden has asked (former Obama advisor) Zeke Emanuel to be a part of his administration. Zeke Emanuel wrote a book called the Complete Lives system. This is a system where only people between 18 and 40 matter to society. Therefore they are the first to get healthcare. The younger or older you are from that prime age your life is less valuable to society and you may or may not get the healthcare you need.

I don't know about you but I don't want this guy anywhere near our government. I don't want a dime of taxpayer money going to him.

Fascism was literally a backlash against the rise of communism. Stop listening to people who are wrong.

I am not "listening" to anyone. This is just the facts the way they are. Socialists do not tolerate 1% dissent. Fascism is a 1% dissent from Socialism. Communism is what Marx called his version of Socialism and has essentially become the founder of all of these collectivist ideologies.

Your problem is that you believe in those nightmare government systems and cannot stand to hear to the truth about them. Stop promoting slavery.

Yes you are. You're using definitions of words that only come from sources that intentionally seek to associate socialism with far-right ideologies like fascism and Nazism. This is a bullshit revisionist tactic not supported by any academic historian. You are listening to people who are wrong.

Socialism is an open-borders ideology. Remember that? "Globalism is socialism", remember? "Open borders is socialism". It seeks a world where national borders is an obsolete relic of a bygone colonial era.

Fascism and Nazism don't just seek strong national borders - they put the very idea of a national border on steroids.

The fact that these are all subsets of authoritarianism or even totalitarianism is a weak link between them. Authoritarianism has been around for thousands of years and massively predates these post-industrial doctrines.

You're full of nonsense, and you get this nonsense from all the wrong weirdos. And everybody knows it.

Because I can think for myself and I disagree with you you think I am brainwashed by someone else? That's ridiculous.

The system of government is exactly the same regardless if it is nationalistic or international. It is just the matter of scope. Besides Hitler was trying to take over Europe. If he had just stayed inside the German borders the world would have said he is a really bad guy but they wouldn't have gone to war with him. For being a nationalist, Hitler had an international, one world, goal. He was creating a "New World Order".

All you have to is study all four of these political/economic system to realize they are all at the fundamental level identical. That idiotic right vs left line that puts Fascism and Nazism on the extreme right was invented when WWII started by US Progressives who all went underground. They had been openly praising Hitler, Stalin, Lenin and Mussolini. That had massive conventions around the country. The filled Madison Square Gardens with one of their rallies.

Then when the news finally got out that their heroes were all psychopathic murderers they hid who they were. Especially because we were at war with Germany and Italy they pushed Nazism and Fascism to the right. Because we were not at war with the USSR or any strictly Socialist nation the Progressives kept that on the left. Because they had taken over most of the colleges they began to teach that BS in college. I remember being taught in high school back in the mid 1970's.

When you realize just how similar they are then if you put Socialism and Communism on the left and Nazism and Fascism on the right then were do freedom exist? It can't because all 4 of those systems are exactly the same.

They are all left wing ideologies and they are all totalitarian and authoritarian. They belong on the far left with monarchies and Islamofascism. What is on the extreme right is no government at all. Anarchy. Our founding fathers knew about this scale between total government control and anarchy and wanted to place the government they gave us as close to the right as possible without providing some safeguards to prevent foreign governments to seize control.

Now go find a book that explains what Socialism is, one that is not written by a Socialist who is trying to hide the tyranny of that system and read it. It is not hard to figure out that Socialism is a colossal failure every single time it has been tried. It creates poverty, misery and death.

You can be wrong whether you think for yourself or not.

You will also notice I did not invalidate much of AbbeyNormal's counter either. To me, they are not errors. They are sweeping generalized opinions. If I critiqued every generalized opinion on this site, I would need another 84 years.

It is a free country.

Doc. Perhaps some are opinions but they are all opinions based on fact. Find out for yourself. Do your own homework.

I find that interesting as well, he claims to be a conservative yet only attacks conservatives and never the left. Some sort of strange bias there.

Doc. that is 100% correct. Do your own research. Try to go to the source of the information rather than trusting what someone else says about them. For example if you want to know what Thomas Jefferson thought then find a book that is nothing more than comments from Thomas Jefferson which contains the full text of what he said or excerpts that are in context and not altered to make him say something other than what he said.

There are a ton of books written about Jefferson so choose wisely. BTW I am using Thomas Jefferson as an example.

For example if you want to know what motivated Hitler then read his words. Understand that if you read Hitler's words you are going to find yourself more in agreement with him than disagreement because you're a Democrat and Democrats have been preaching out of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto for decades.

Excellent summation. Totally agree they all belong on the left. Total government control is total government control no matter what you call it.

wrong. 80 years ago we went to war to stop the genocide and destruction of our allies. socialism had nothing to do with it

Wrong! Socialism is what gave Hitler the power to commit genocide. It is also what gave Stalin and Mao the power to commit a greater genocide than Hitler.

Did you know that Hitler didn't kill a single Jew until AFTER the United States got involved in the war. He was killing handicapped (mentally and physically) and homosexuals (who were not part of his administration) but the Jews were not being rounded up and gassed until after we went to war.

However, you are correct that we went to war to stop England from being destroyed but England was being destroyed because Hitler's plan was to conquer the world with his New World Order. A global Socialist government. FDR was very partial to Socialism. His wife was a devout Socialist but Roosevelt wasn't. He took his economic advice from John Maynard Keynes who was a blithering idiot who nearly bankrupted the nation. Keynes and FDR prolonged the Great Depression 10 years longer than it would have lasted if they did nothing. Keynes wasn't a Socialist but economic ideas were almost as bad as Karl Marx's ideas.

Socialism takes a political power away from the individual (where it belongs) and gives to a totalitarian government. Socialism is Nazism. Socialism is Communism. Socialism is Fascism. Socialism is the greatest evil ever perpetrated on mankind. It spreads by telling wonderful stories about how everyone will be equal. Yet every single time it is tried that equality means everyone is equally living in poverty. And not the kind of poverty we have in America but the kind of poverty that is happening in Venezuela, North Korea, China and everywhere else it is forced on the people.

You really need to wake up and read about it.