Mask Exemption

Mask Exemption |  I HAVE A RARE CONDITION THAT PREVENTS ME FROM WEARING A MASK; IT'S CALLED I LOOKED AT THE DATA AND I'M NOT AN IDIOT | image tagged in coronavirus,masks | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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1,177 views 65 upvotes Made by shoepimp 1 month ago in politics
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8 ups, 1m
Life Coronavirus Nursing Home Infection Upper Room | If masks worked, locked down nursing homes would never have China Virus | image tagged in life coronavirus nursing home infection upper room | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
But they do have the virus anyway
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[deleted]
3 ups, 1m
If masks made any difference, the homeless would have been wiped out. They weren't.
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2 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Trump SJW No | BUT YOU COULD CATCH A COLD AND FEEL ACHY, THEN GET BETTER A FEW DAYS LATER | image tagged in trump sjw no | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
They're not afraid of getting sick. They're afraid of spreading it to someone vulnerable.
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2 ups, 1m,
4 replies
So do you know what you do...?

If you're vulnerable, wear a mask or stay at home.

See how easy that was...?
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
Doctor | IF YOU'RE SICK YOU STAY HOME JUST LIKE EVERYONE HAS DONE FOR EVER OUTBREAK FOR 1000'S OF YEARS | image tagged in doctor | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
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1 up, 1m
Exactly.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
But then the people who visit them will have covid and give it to them
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
So don't allow people to visit you.

Again: problem still solved.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Yep, it just takes a real toll on your mental health, given that you are shut in your house for months
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
Then accept that life has risk...

...and go outside.

Problem solved.
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
"If you don't agree with me, you're not very bright. Obviously. Because I'm clearly the smartest person here, so if you don't agree with me, it must be because you're dumb."

Someone said something about when one has no more arguments to make...I'll refer you to them.
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0 ups, 1m,
3 replies
Yes. everyone who doesn't have your opinion is stupid because.......why, exactly?
0 ups, 1m
You do not have the right to call me dear. now, back to the debate. Also, when did i say that? You are trying to impose your opinion on everyone by telling them not to wear masks. We are both equally bad. So, how about we just call it a day and go home?
0 ups, 1m
No, dear, that's what YOU said. Scroll up, it's just a couple of posts up.

I'm fine with you having your opinion, and I don't think you're stupid for having it. I disagree, and have reason on my side, but that doesn't make your opinion wrong or bad...just overly cautious.

It's when you try to impose your opinion on others by force that I have a problem.

Pretty simple.
0 ups, 1m
"You do not have the right to call me dear. "

Sure I do. The First Amendment guarantees that right, and imgflip, so far as they honor that, has no problem with it, dear.

One more time: if you're going to reply to yourself, I am not notified that you replied. Some people use that as a dishonest way to "get the last word" in an argument without the other party knowing it.

Hopefully, that's not what you're doing...right?

"You are trying to impose your opinion on everyone by telling them not to wear masks. We are both equally bad. So, how about we just call it a day and go home?"

And that, of course, is absurd nonsense. As if speaking my mind is the exact same thing as forcing others, by government order, to wear masks in public, as if saying and doing are the same thing.

I am not the government, or a member of any governmental organization. No one can impose their OPINION on someone merely by speaking or writing it. Speaking my mind is not imposing anything on anyone.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I'm fine with calling it a day.
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
and wear the facemark to reduce that risk
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
By all means. No one is stopping you.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Reply to the red comment above: If i could reply to your comments directly, i would. Also, I'm not in America or of american nationality. Also, I literally called it a day several comments ago and you only agreed just now. Also, Agree to disagree, deal?
0 ups, 1m
Yes, the last red bar comments are a hindrance to long conversations, but people have learned...as you just did...how to reply further up the chain so that the other person sees the reply.

Good to know you weren't doing it on purpose.

That said, whether you are an American or not doesn't change my right to call you dear.

My advice? Ignore it. Letting people know things bother you only makes it worse.

The last comment of yours I responded to was the last comment of yours I saw. No need, again, to get defensive about it. I have no problem "agreeing to disagree."
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
Heh. "facemark"

How unintentionally ironic.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Yes, Autocorrect is annoying. You can tell people have run out of arguments when they are just nitpicking over the opponent's grammar
0 ups, 1m
Sure. That's what's happened.

I've "run out of arguments."

By the way, no need to be defensive. I wasn't nitpicking your spelling (which I'm doing now)...I was commenting on the unintentional irony of you calling masks a faceMARK.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Well, only relations have the right to call me dear, not some creepy dude i found on the internet. I don't even know you
0 ups, 1m
So many ways to go with this, but I'll be gentle...this time...
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0 ups, 1m,
3 replies
Wearing a mask protects others from you more than it protects you from others.
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2 ups, 1m,
2 replies
Right.

So, if you're vulnerable, wear a mask or stay home.

Same answer.
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0 ups, 1m
For red comment above: ?????????
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
I see why you’re so ignorant about why we should wears face masks. Your have terrible reading comprehension.
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1 up, 1m,
3 replies
My have terrible reading comprehension, huh...? Your have terrible writing skills.

If you want to wear a face mask...wear one. No one is stopping you.

If they work...then it doesn't matter if others don't wear them.

If they don't work...you have no right demanding others wear them.

If they "sorta work", which is the same thing as "not working", but you have no real idea how much they do or do not work....again, you have no right demanding others wear them.

What you're operating on is FAITH...not science. "Masks help prevent the spread of covid!!!" you maskers scream. Ok. How much? "SOME!!" So, you don't really know how much they help, or even if they do, you just "know" that they "do"...?

That's not science.

That's religion.

I'm sure masks do have SOME preventive measure against Covid...but I have no idea how much, and it's entirely dependent on that infinite multitude of factors I mentioned. And I shouldn't be forced to wear something that isn't natural, just so you can feel a placebo effect. You have no right to force others to mitigate YOUR risk, which is what you're calling for everyone to do. It is YOUR responsibility to mitigate your risk...not mine.

And forcing me to mitigate YOUR risk is immoral and against natural rights, especially if we are doing the exact opposite of what we should be, biologically speaking.
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
4g939p.jpg (click to show)
Again, For your reading comprehension disability.
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1 up, 1m,
2 replies
More false equivalences.

Why do you people keep making these bad arguments?

Do you know what that room is...?

It's an operating room.

That means that someone in that room is *cut open* and their insides are *exposed to the world.*

So, unless you're going to be walking around with gaping wounds exposed to the world...and Covid-19 would be the LEAST of your worries...then sure, go ahead and demand everyone else wear masks.

Otherwise...it's a bad argument.
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2 ups, 1m,
3 replies
But according to you, the only reason to wear a mask is to protect yourself from others.

Let’s break it down for you since you’re struggling with the concept.
1. You may be contagious even though you don’t have any symptoms.
2. When you talk, sneeze, cough or just breathe, the virus spreads to others.
3. Wearing a mask reduces the chances of you spreading the virus to others.
4. Others who wear a mask reduce the chances of spreading the virus to you.
5. Wearing a mask to protect yourself from others is like surgeons wearing a mask to protect themself from patients.

Your arguments refuted.
“I should not have to wear a mask if I’m not sick” See #1
“If you’re worried about getting covid, wear a mask but don’t mandate that I do” See #1, 2, 3, 5
“Wearing a mask is unnecessary or ineffective” See #4 plus all the advice pathologists that refute your claim.
0 ups, 1m
"“Wearing a mask is unnecessary or ineffective” See #4 plus all the advice pathologists that refute your claim."

If you cannot have an argument without inventing things and then claiming I "claimed" them, I'm going to call you out for your straw men

I never claimed a mask is "ineffective."

As I have...repeatedly (that means "over and over")...stated throughout this entire discussion, NO ONE KNOWS...not you, not me, not any doctor...just how effective a mask actually IS, because it's not something that CAN be knowable, owing to the infinite multitude of factors I already mentioned.

Wearing a mask IS necessary...if you're in a burning building, or you're a surgeon in the act of performing surgery, or there's a chemical spill, or if the plane you're riding in suddenly experiences a loss of cabin pressure...there are all sorts of situations in which wearing a mask is not only necessary, you or someone else could very easily die if you do not.

Wearing a mask forever and everywhere on the ve

Do you notice something about your nifty "chart"...?

Right: there are no specifics.

What does "high" mean when discussing the probability of transmission?

It doesn't say. ON PURPOSE (because no one KNOWS.)

What does "low" mean...?

What does "lowest" mean...?

It doesn't say. ON PURPOSE.

Do you remember what I've been telling you this entire discussion about risk vs. reward...?

What if...and this is hypothetical, mind you...but what if your odds of getting Covid-19 from a carrier while they are wearing a mask and you're not wearing one ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME as while you ARE wearing one...?

Hmmm...?

Ever consider that? No, of course not.

Do you notice the giant gaping hole in your chart..?

Do you...?

Right: there's no little diagram for a Covid-19 carrier NOT wearing a mask while YOU are wearing one.

Why not...?

Because the person who made that chart is a mini-tyrant, just like you, and IGNORED IT.

Your arguments refuted. I'll make another post showing the HUGE GAPING HOLE in your little chart...
0 ups, 1m
There you go! Now that's a real chart.

Not the dishonest one YOU posted.

Shame on you, mini-tyrant!
0 ups, 1m
"But according to you, the only reason to wear a mask is to protect yourself from others."

Wrong. This is a false claim that's been debunked multiple times.

"Let’s break it down for you since you’re struggling with the concept."

The only one struggling here is you, with the fact that your claim is false and has been debunked. Next...

"1. You may be contagious even though you don’t have any symptoms."

Correct.

"2. When you talk, sneeze, cough or just breathe, the virus spreads to others."

You can't even get to #2 without faltering. Here's where your argument breaks down. Why? Because you're completely ignoring the fact that, while yes, if you HAVE Covid-19 and can then transmit it unknowingly, there have only been 6,958,632 cases in the US since the CDC starting tracking Covid in January.

That means only 1 in 46 people in the United States have gotten it.

Your odds of running into a person infected with Covid-19...ignoring all other factors...are already low to begin with. Remember, we're talking ODDS here, CHANCE.

"3. Wearing a mask reduces the chances of you spreading the virus to others."

By how much?

You don't know. No one does.

Here's one for you: "outlawing cars reduces the chances of people dying in car crashes."

You follow...?

"4. Others who wear a mask reduce the chances of spreading the virus to you."

By how much?

You don't know. No one does.

Here's one for you: "outlawing the consumption of refined sugar reduces the chances of people developing Type 2 diabetes."

You follow...?

"5. Wearing a mask to protect yourself from others is like surgeons wearing a mask to protect themself from patients."

Again with this fallacious, idiotic claim. PEOPLE DO NOT WALK AROUND IN PUBLIC WITH GAPING WOUNDS ON THEIR BODIES.

Please...stop making this stupid argument.

"“I should not have to wear a mask if I’m not sick” See #1"

This doesn't mean anything. This is justification for forcing every single person to wear a mask ON THE CHANCE THAT they MIGHT have a contagious disease.

That is not life. That is madness.

You do know that there are TESTS for Covid-19, right...? And that those tests can now produce results in minutes, right...?

"“If you’re worried about getting covid, wear a mask but don’t mandate that I do” See #1, 2, 3, 5"

If you're worried about getting Covid, stay home, wear a mask, socially distance, and don't walk around with your surgical wounds open to the public.

No need to impose your will on others.

See?
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
Usually only leftists get this triggered. But I guess you’re just like them . . . arguing based on false assumptions.

BTW. You’re the only one paying attention to any of your multi page rants. But if it makes you feel better, have fun.
1 up, 1m
calling timber, imgflip's Karen a leftist? Damn
0 ups, 1m
Uh huh.

If it makes you feel better to write like a Leftist, dismissive and derisive because you're angry and frustrated that your bad arguments and petty tyranny were exposed, you do you, boo. I accept your concession.
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
You say that as if science hasn't proven that masks help prevent the spread of covid
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
Ok.

How much...?
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Well, this should contain the details: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
0 ups, 1m
Should...but doesn't:

"but these masks may provide some protection when N95 masks are not available."

"some" means "we don't know."

"Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus"

"most likely" means " we don't know."

"Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of the virus"

"Can help reduce" doesn't say "how much."

The only real number is the N95...and even THAT is qualified, because it's only "designed" to prevent 95% of "very small particles"...but that doesn't necessarily mean viruses, and it doesn't say "does"...only that it's designed to.

And...since people are stupid, and don't follow instructions...one of the "infinite multitude of factors" I mentioned in other comments...there's all sorts of things they can and will do that completely negates the mask altogether.

So, you want to force your will on others because it MIGHT reduce...but no one knows by how much...risk of transmission...?

Listen, I can reduce all risk to zero for everything: kill everyone. Then no one will ever be at risk of anything ever again.

Barring that, you can just put everyone in a strait jacket in a round, padded, hermetically sealed room. Hey, they won't be at risk of getting hit by a car, of catching a communicable disease, drowning, getting struck by lightning, being bit by a dog, walking in front of a train, and all SORTS of other risks in every day life.

Of course, that vastly increases their risk of critical mental illness, but who gives a shit about that...?

But since that's not a viable option, you and your fellow maskers are going to have to come to grips with the facts: life is risk. You do what you can to mitigate your risk. And then you leave everyone else to decide for themselves.

Enough with your nonsensical, anti-science bullshit already.
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
Lysol has been proven to help prevent the spread of bacteria.

But Lysol on a clean kitchen counter is much, much more effective than Lysol on a pig trough.

Do you understand...?
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
This is a reply to the comment above the comment above this one. Mental illness can lead people to become psychopaths or commit suicide. Also, you are the one who is literally saying masks don't help. If anyone here is an anti science conspiracy theorist, it is you. How many times do masks need to be scientifically proven to help for you to finally grasp this revolutionary idea
0 ups, 1m
"Also, you are the one who is literally saying masks don't help."

Don't lie and make shit up about what I said.

I said no such thing.

I said the truth: no one knows...that's you, me, the Mayo Clinic, Fauci, everyone...HOW effective masks are at reducing the spread of Covid-19 (or any other illness.)

Since no one knows...and there are an infinite multitude of factors which change effectiveness from person to person...then it is NOT REASONABLE to FORCE people to wear masks, just so others can FEEL better.

Life is risk. You BALANCE that risk, you MITIGATE that risk where and how you can. You do not force others to take responsibility for YOUR risk...unless, of course, you're a tyrant.

You: "If anyone here is an anti science conspiracy theorist, it is you."

Yeah, sure. Watch:

"Everyone, you have to wear these masks forever and everywhere!"

"Why?"

"Because it might reduce transmission of Covid-19"

"Ok. Are you sure?"

"No, but it seems like it should."

"Ok. Do you know how effective it is?"

"No. No one does."

"So, you don't know how effective it is, or if it even IS effective, but you want to force everyone to wear something that is unnatural, because...?"

"It might reduce transmission, you idiot! Didn't you hear me??"

"But, if you socially distance, maintain good hygiene, and wear a mask yourself, you will reduce YOUR risk of transmission to virtually none. And that doesn't even mention the idea of herd immunity. Why, then, if you can mitigate your risk, are you forcing other people to mitigate your risk, too?"

"Because it makes me FEEL safer, you MORON!!!"

Who here is "anti-science"...?
0 ups, 1m
One more specific comment:

"How many times do masks need to be scientifically proven to help for you to finally grasp this revolutionary idea"

There's the word: "help."

How much?

You don't know.

1%?

99%?

You don't know.

No one does.

But you're willing to force others to wear something that isn't natural, based on a CONJECTURE. Even if one accepts your premise...that they are PROVEN to help (which isn't true)...you still don't know HOW MUCH.

And human beings cannot mitigate risk based on "I don't know."

Locking people in a round, padded, hermetically sealed room helps them not die in a car crash.

100% true. No one locked in such a room is likely to die in a car crash.

And...? Do you see the problem yet...?
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0 ups, 1m,
5 replies
Wearing a mask (even a DIY one) will seriously decrease your chances of getting covid
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1 up, 1m
Ok.

How much...?

Don't you think, since you're talking about a "mandate" (which is just a fancy word for "force"), you should KNOW what the risk actually is...?

If you don't know...keep your hands to yourself until and unless you do.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Also, masks have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to decrease the chances of getting covid as well as transmitting it. You say i should mitigate the risk wherever i can. Why do you think i wear a mask? All the scientists and doctors who know what they are talking about know that masks decrease your chance of getting it. Are you a doctor or a virologist, or just someone who is ignoring the evidence put in front of them because they can't be bothered to wear a face mask?
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0 ups, 1m
I cannot know you have made additional arguments if you reply to yourself.

If you're doing that on purpose, so that I won't see your response and respond to it myself, you're being dishonest.

You: "Also, masks have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to decrease the chances of getting covid as well as transmitting it."

Not in dispute.

The problem is this: how MUCH does it decrease those chances, and is that ENOUGH to justify forcing people to wear masks?

The answer, of course, is a RESOUNDING no.

Risk/reward.

It is SCIENTIFICALLY (as well as observationally) PROVEN that the chances of dying in a car crash decrease to NOTHING if you never get in a car.

So should we ban all cars?

Risk/reward.

"who is ignoring the evidence put in front of them because they can't be bothered to wear a face mask?"

This is the language of religion and people who are trying to convince you of their religious beliefs. "The proof for the FSM is all around you! You're just ignoring the evidence for him/her/it!"

This is not the language of science. Scientists do not attempt to shame people into accepting their results because...watch me now...science is based on OBSERVATION...not BELIEF.

Do you understand...?
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Yes, they help. they don't prevent. just look at the link that i have been posting to you. It gives you what you have been craving for this whole time: how much they help
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0 ups, 1m
Already checked, and it doesn't. Sorry. This symbol ---> "≥" means something.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Again, are you going to ignore the info of doctors and virologists, most who have a PHD in the field, just for your personal preferences on wearing masks?
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0 ups, 1m
This is the language of the religions, attempting to convince others of their religious beliefs.

This is not the language of science.

Are you going to ignore the info about the FSM?

Oh, and by the way...referring to doctors and virologists having "PHD" (it's PhD, by the way, and most of them are MDs...not PhDs) is a logical fallacy known as "the appeal to authority.

One more time:

Risk

vs.

Reward.

That's what's at stake here. Not whether or not masks help...in many cases, they almost certainly do, while in some cases, they don't help a bit...but HOW MUCH they help, and whether THAT is justification for forcing them on the entire population, forever and everywhere.

Do you understand...?

Risk

vs.

Reward.

Very simple.

Are you going to ignore the info of doctors, insurance companies, and engineers just for your personal preferences on driving a car?
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0 ups, 1m
Again, not reply to the above comment, but the one above that. link that gives you exact details on the filtration rates of the different masks:https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/comparison-mask-standards-rating-effectiveness/
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
That's 8% for the 70-79 crowd, and 14% for the 80+ gang.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Wow, an unlabeled bar graph. Sooooo convincing.
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
Covid death rates for people who have tested positive for it. Are you going to behave like an unhinged Leftist, now? You're usually...usually...a reasonable person.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
You’re behaving like an unhinged idiot, arguing against face masks because you don’t like it.
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1 up, 1m,
2 replies
You're writing like an ignorant moron, wanting to force your will on others to do something that is not natural because it makes you *feel* better.

When newborns come out of the womb...those that manage to survive, that is...wearing masks, then I will agree with you.

Until then...stop trying to force your religious beliefs on everyone else.
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0 ups, 1m,
5 replies
Once again. The operating room analogy is because you seem to think that the purpose of wearing a mask is to protect yourself from others. When you manage to get past that false notion, please come back and continue the debate.
0 ups, 1m
"Once again. The operating room analogy is because you seem to think that the purpose of wearing a mask is to protect yourself from others. When you manage to get past that false notion, please come back and continue the debate."

And that, of course, is a lie. It's a lie you're stuck on, because you cannot debate the actual argument, so you make things up to focus on.

It's just deflection.

"Kerosene is fuel. Red Bull is Fuel. Kerosene is Red Bull."

"Surgeons and staff wear masks to protect others. People wear masks in public to protect others. Operating rooms are the general public."

When your analogy is analyzed, its inherent absurdity is exposed.
0 ups, 1m
Are you drunk...?

This lie of yours has been debunked. If you cannot have a debate without lying about your opponent's positions, you're wasting your time.

See my chart for further information.
0 ups, 1m
(continued from previous comment)

THEREFORE...if wearing masks is unnatural, the human body is already designed to fight pathogens, wearing masks long term is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN (since you like that phrase) to be detrimental, AND people don't like wearing them, it is incumbent upon you and all who agree with you to JUSTIFY...as a matter of public policy...exactly WHY everyone should be forced to wear them, everywhere, all the time (and since you have a problem with distinctions, that means "while in public.")

Simply saying "everyone wearing masks is MOST EFFECTIVE" isn't good enough. You must QUANTIFY what "most effective" MEANS. You must demonstrate that the RISK (the detrimental physical, psychological, and yes, even preferential results of long term mask wearing) not just is outweighed by, but CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY is outweighed by the REWARD (reduced transmission.)

And you and your fellow mask tyrants have completely and utterly failed to do that.

You don't know...because no one does....just HOW effective making everyone wear masks actually is compared to no one wearing them, or some people wearing them.

Is it 2% more effective?

45% more effective?

99% more effective?

No one knows.

And imposing your will on someone against their wishes for what may possibly be very little to NO additional effectiveness...is tyranny.

You want some real stats? Here, I'll give you some real stats:

Ebola has a kill rate of just about 50%. That is, if 100 people contract Ebola, 50 of those people are dead. It may be 49, it may be 51, but they are dead. There is no chance. Within a month of contracting the virus, half of the people will be dead. Period.

The GOOD news...if there can be good news about Ebola...is that its transmission rate is TERRIBLE. And outbreaks CAN be, and HAVE been, contained due to swift and TEMPORARY extreme measures.

Do you know what the kill rate of Covid-19 has been, for the entire population thus far...?

About .6%.

So far.

That's POINT 6%. That's Fauci and the CDC.

That means, if 1000 people catch Covid, 6 people will die from it.

And if you exclude co-morbidities...factors which ALREADY MAKE a person susceptible to disease...that figure drops to .01%. That means, if 10,000 people catch Covid-19, only 1 will die of it.

If 10,000 people caught Ebola, 5,000 would die of it.

If 10,000 people catch Covid-19, 1 dies of it.

About the same rate as the flu.

That is not justification for forcing everyone to wear a mask.

Sorry.
0 ups, 1m
"Yes, I’m really saying that. It’s what I’ve been trying to explain to you all along."

Except no one is disputing that.

Do you understand that?

No, I don't think you do.

"Nobody is saying masks are100% effective at preventing transmission."

Correct.

What I have said is if they are NOT 100% effective at preventing transmission, you better have a damn good reason for why they should be mandatory.

You do not.

"Are you saying since they aren’t 100% effective then there’s no reason for you to wear one?"

Nope. Not even once, in this entire discussion, have I even hinted at that.

"Is that really how you’re trying to justify yourself?"

Sigh.

"Face it, you’re on the losing side of the argument."

Right back atcha.

"If you feel the CDC, WHO, etc are wrong then go ahead and present your case to them."

I don't "feel" they are wrong, nor do I even think they are.

Pay attention: saying nobody knows is not the same thing as saying they're wrong.

Again: saying nobody knows is not the same thing as saying they're wrong.

"Maybe you’ll get them to change their recommendations."

You mean like they have already done, multiple times?

Fauci, in February: "Don't wear a mask. We don't have enough of them."

Fauci had decided that the RISK of not wearing a mask was outweighed by the REWARD of being able to provide PPE to those who really needed them. He said nothing about using DIY masks.

Did that information increase transmission? Almost certainly. Did it cause preventable death? Probably.

But the reward outweighed, at that time, the risk, because of factors that were evolving.

Jerome Adams, the Surgeon General of the US, on March 31 said "Data doesn't back up wearing masks in public."

He has since changed his recommendation, too.

"But until then, I’ll side with their recommendations rather than you"

By all means, no one is stopping you from doing what you feel you need to do...for YOU.

" and your ignorant personal opinion"

This is what people say when they're angry and frustrated and think they're losing the debate.

" that, unless masks are 100% effective there’s no point in wearing them."

You're lying again. I never said anything even remotely like that. You're constructing a straw man, knocking it down, and claiming victory.

Try again.
0 ups, 1m
Me: "“Are you actually trying to argue that masks don't work unless we ALL wear them...? And that they aren't effective when just SOME people wear them...”

You: "Now you’re starting to understand. While wearing a mask gives you some protection, they are most effective when everyone in public places wears one."

And you're still failing to understand. Facepalms everywhere.

Pay attention, now, maybe the 57th time I write this, you'll get it.

You have, once again, moved the goalposts. My questions were rhetorical: it is an obvious absurdity to suggest that masks are...watch me now, the precise words I'm using are very important here, because you're fiddling around...on purpose...with both your and my words, to try and score rhetorical points...it is an obvious absurdity to say that masks are COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE UNLESS EVERYONE WEARS THEM.

You following me? Even your own little dishonest mask graphic demonstrates this.

But you CHANGED the argument by inserting the word "SOME" in your statement.

"While wearing a mask gives you SOME protection, (emphasis added) they are most effective when everyone in public places wears one."

Pay attention: I AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.

Got that...?

You following...?

I AGREE that wearing masks are MOST EFFECTIVE when everyone in public places wears one.

THE DISPUTE...pay attention, now!...is

HOW

EFFECTIVE

IS

"MOST EFFECTIVE"...?

See, THAT is the question that neither you, I, nor anyone else can answer.

Do you understand yet...?

Do you follow me yet...?

To you, a mini-tyrant, the answer is obvious: "well, DUH! If it's most effective if everyone wears masks, everyone must wear them! DUH! How could ANYBODY disagree with that clearly obvious idea? What imbeciles!!!"

That is you.

That is your attitude.

That is what you've been saying this entire discussion.

But that's never been the real issue.

Because you ignore these facts:

1. The human body was not designed to wear a mask.

2. The human body already has several BUILT IN features that help control disease, including a filtration system (that's the nose, sinuses, lungs, etc) AND an immune system to battle anything that gets past.

3. Wearing masks long term has been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN (a phrase you like to use) to be DETRIMENTAL to people.

4. People don't like wearing them.

(to be continued...)
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
And you’re accusing ME of false analogies?

Face it, you have no argument and you’re whining about face mask mandates because you don’t give a rat’s tail about others. You’re being self-centered and childish.
0 ups, 1m
Yes, I'm accusing you of false analogies, because comparing wearing a mask in an operating room, where the patient is cut open and their innards are exposed is not even remotely analogous to people living their normal, day-to-day lives outside, sans gaping, open wounds somewhere on their bodies.

Do you understand?

So you go ahead and impose your will on others because you know, but won't admit, that I'm correct, and you resent the fact that you're forced to wear a mask, so you bought into the propaganda and told yourself "screw it...if I can't beat 'em, I might as well join 'em."

Your self-righteous and indignant posturing only serves to signal your virtue: "How DARE you?? You don't give a rat's tail about others, you...you...BRUTE!!!"...which implies, of course, that you DO, and oh, look how righteous you are, doing your part to "protect" others, and everyone who doesn't agree with you can go straight to hell where they belong.

Spare me.

Life. Is. Risk. The mature, responsible, grown-up thing to do is ASSESS that risk, and balance it against reward. As I have already said, multiple times, if you want to mitigate all risk, lock yourself up in a round, padded, hermetically sealed room...and I guarantee you, you will NEVER be a danger to anyone else at all.

What...?

You refuse to do that...?

Unbelievable. Don't you give a rat's tail about others? How DARE you expose others to risk by living your life??? How DARE you!!?? You're being self-centered and childish!

I express my concern for the welfare of others every day, by not dumping toxic materials into the groundwater, and picking up my dog's poop when he goes on my neighbor's lawns, and obeying traffic laws, and not leaving my trash for others, and paying my taxes, and a whole host of other things. But oh man....I argue that forcing people to wear a mask forever and everywhere is tyrannical, and boy oh boy, I just don't give two shits about anyone, by God!

It's true what they say: crises bring out the mettle of a person. And this crisis has exposed a HELL of a lot of wannabe tinpot dictators in this nation. For all your talk on imgflip, your inner tyrant sure has been exposed in this, hasn't it...?

Yeah, you betcha. Boy howdy.
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0 ups, 1m
for timber1972. hmmmmmmmm
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1 up, 1m,
3 replies
. It's really not that hard to wear one. So why are people against them?
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1 up, 1m,
1 reply
Because they don’t stop airborne diseases. The CDC announced COVID is airborne.
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0 ups, 1m
The CDC also says
“Everyone should wear a mask in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.“
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Wrong. Your mask MAY protect me, to a DEGREE (which neither you nor anyone else actually knows.)

How is it your business to protect others who may or may not want your "protection"?

"Just do what we say. It's not a big deal!" - said every person who doesn't understand the principles of liberty, free will, and "my body, my choice."
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Since you’re in denial about the effectiveness of face masks, check out the video in the article.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800?cookieSet=1
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
Since you're a liar who has to purposely misrepresent his/her opponents arguments because you know yours have failed, no thanks.

No one said masks aren't effective, because that's not the issue.

The issue is HOW effective, and whether that is justification for forcing the entire population to wear masks forever and everywhere.

See my chart for further information.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
So, when you’re argument is debunked, you’re only response if “you’re a liar”?

If you actually read the article and watched the video, your question of “HOW effective” would be answered. But you don’t want and answer, do you. You just want to keep repeating your mantra trying to justify your refusal to comply.

But hey, sticking your head in the sand will at least keep you from spreading any viruses so keep it up. 😆
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
"your"

And you have yet to debunk any argument I've made.

You're a liar because you've purposely accused me of things that aren't true...like me being "in denial about the effectiveness of face masks." We call that "lying."

Do you understand?

Don't try to send me somewhere else...if the argument is good, paraphrase it...or quote it...here.

But you won't, because they're saying the same thing I am: "we don't know HOW effective...we just have what we consider to be good guesses."

Because that's what pathologists, virologists, the CDC, WHO, etc. actually SAY.

Again: if you wear a mask, and I wear a mask, and everyone else wears a mask...then 2 masks ought to be twice as effective, right...?

And 5 masks ought to be 5 times as effective, right....?

And forcing everyone to stay home should be 100% effective...right?

Do you understand...?

No, I don't think you do. I don't think you understand at all. You cannot grasp the concept of risk/reward, and you've clearly been outclassed, so you'll just keep circling back, over and over and over, to "they help prevent the spread, so you have to wear one!!!"

You again: "You just want to keep repeating your mantra trying to justify your refusal to comply."

And there's the heart of it: the inner tyrant that is exposed in times such as this: "Your refusal to comply."

"Shut up and obey."

"Do what you're told, or else."

That's the bottom line. "We don't know how effective masks really are, but we BELIEVE, because we have FAITH (that's religion speaking) that they reduce the spread, and it sure SOUNDS reasonable, so you have to wear a mask because if makes us feel better."

Whose head is in the sand, then...?
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0 ups, 1m,
2 replies
“You're a liar because you've purposely accused me of things that aren't true...like me being "in denial about the effectiveness of face masks."

Oh, so you’ve changed your argument and now believe that masks are effective enough to warrant wearing them? If not then you ARE in denial and I’m not lying.

And when I present evidence showing that they really are effective, you stick your head in the sand and refuse to even look at it. Why are you so afraid of having your question answered? Is it because you don’t want an answer and you’d rather bask in your blissful ignorance? That’s what it sound like.
0 ups, 1m
"Oh, so you’ve changed your argument and now believe that masks are effective enough to warrant wearing them? If not then you ARE in denial and I’m not lying."

You're engaging in sophistry. Characterizing a disagreement with YOUR conclusion as being "in denial" is a lie. I'm not "in denial" about anything...I disagree with you. But, of course, it's much easier to cast aspersions because you're frustrated and angry than debate in good faith.

Pay very close attention to what I am about to say, and I will type this REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY slowly so you can follow along:

No one said, at any time, that all mask wearing in all cases is completely and utterly ineffective (though, in some cases, they most certainly are <---this is called NUANCE. You should look into it.)

The issue at debate...then as now...is HOW effective they are (and the answer to that is still "no really one knows"), and whether they are effective ENOUGH to justify your program of forcing everyone to where a mask everywhere, forever as public policy. In the beginning, before we understood the risks and effects of this disease, a TEMPORARY....TEMPORARY...overabundance of caution is not a bad thing.

But this pandemic has been in existence all over the world for 7-10 MONTHS now. We know pretty much how it is transmitted, how virulent it is, and what can be done to reduce the risk for most people low enough to control it (and I can hear you mumbling: "yeah, make everyone wear a mask!!")

The need for everyone to wear masks forever and everywhere does...not...exist. But, like all Leftists, you have bought into the fear brought to you by people who want to control you, and saw an opportunity to signal your OWN virtue by scolding people who disagree with you.

BUT...

Because I come to a...pay attention now...***different conclusion than you do, being fully aware of the facts of the issue***...does not therefore mean I am "in denial" about it.

It simply means I don't agree with your CONCLUSION.

Therefore...characterizing it as being "in denial" is, in fact, a lie.

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

Oh, and your silly chart, which OMITTED an entire category because it was inconvenient to your argument, is also a lie.
0 ups, 1m
You again: "And when I present evidence showing that they really are effective, you stick your head in the sand and refuse to even look at it. "

You're engaging in sophistry again, and have moved the goalposts. Very subtle, if one isn't paying attention. Here, I'll quote the pertinent bit, with emphasis:

"showing that they REALLY ARE EFFECTIVE"

But no one said they aren't effective. Whether or not they're effective has never been at issue. The issue is HOW effective they are (no one really knows) and whether or not that unknown level of effectiveness justifies using the power of the government to force people to wear them.

You say "yes."

I say "no."

Pretty simple.

You're deflecting, badly. You're engaging in the same irrational debate tactics that all the rest of the Leftists do. "Herp de derp, you won't even LOOK at the info, cuz you know yer WRONG!!!!"

(insert eyeroll here)

Pay very close attention again to what I am about to say:

Don't make me do your research by sending me to a website that contains a large amount of information, as if that "proves your point." If you want me to consider the information, paraphrase or quote it here YOURSELF. One does not go into court, and then tell the judge or a jury "well, this If you cannot or refuse to do that, that must be because you don't want to know the answer, and know I'm right!!"

That is how you LOSE your case.

You again: "Why are you so afraid of having your question answered?"

So go ahead and answer it.

This isn't rocket science.

Don't say "go elsewhere, someone else has answered you!!"

Answer it yourself, here.

If you can.

You again: "Is it because you don’t want an answer and you’d rather bask in your blissful ignorance? That’s what it sound like."

This made me laugh out loud. This is just chest-thumping.

It's very simple: if you want me to consider your information, don't send me to someone else. YOU present it, yourself, here.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
"calling timber, imgflip's Karen a leftist? Damn"

You know you've struck a nerve when they take a swing out of the blue.
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0 ups, 1m,
1 reply
nah I meant that more like as astonishment
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0 ups, 1m
So smug, yet so slow on the uptake...that's not what I was referring to, child.

Try again.
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I HAVE A RARE CONDITION THAT PREVENTS ME FROM WEARING A MASK; IT'S CALLED I LOOKED AT THE DATA AND I'M NOT AN IDIOT
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