Change My Mind

810 views • 42 upvotes • Made by kdawg 5 years ago in politics
45 Comments
RunawayTrain
2 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Here is what the expert Dr. Fauci wrote in a peer reviewed editorial publication.



https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387



“ In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%.”



March 26, 2020
EGOS
1 up, 5y, 2 replies
Could be less than 1%. Absolutely. Hope it is, that would be such a great thing.

The OP claim of 99.9971% survival rate is still hogwash.
RunawayTrain
0 ups, 5y
It probably .5% or less. It’s certainly not the Spanish flu. Open the economy while protecting the elderly and severely at risk. Hydroxychloroquine actually works in conjunction with azithromycin and zinc. The underlying science is irrefutable.
kdawg
0 ups, 5y
Oh yeah - THIS TOO.



https://youtu.be/2GmQVm-kLoM
kdawg
2 ups, 5y, 1 reply
https://www.ibtimes.com/cdc-finds-only-6-coronavirus-deaths-are-solely-covid-19-3037136
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
How about a fact check on that? https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/
kdawg
0 ups, 5y
Factcheck is a liberal think-tank that distorts every issue they come across to fit their agenda.  I look at the hard data.  I don't follow what some 20-something college student's interpretation is.  I am trained in statistics and don't require someone else's analysis.
EGOS
4 ups, 5y, 8 replies
Take the number of deaths in U.S. 182,986 and divide by recovered 3,202,457

You get a death rate of 5.7%

This is preliminary and subject to change but it will not be anywhere near the 0.003% you suppose here.

Do everybody a favor and stop being a dangerous source of misinformation. You can literally get people killed with this kind of lazy baseless "information"
kdawg
5 ups, 5y, 1 reply
PS:  Comorbidities also include things like car accidents and skydiving accidents.  So if you have COVID, are killed skydiving because your parachute didn't open, THE REPORT IT AS A COVID DEATH with 1 comorbidity (skydiving).  They don't blame the skydiving impact.  They blame COVID even if you were asymptomatic to the point that you were well enough to go skydiving.   YES, it's true, look it up.  The CDC finally released the numbers.



Go here:



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly



Scroll, click Comorbidies, and open Table 3.  So you are over stating pure COVID deaths by about 17 fold which is extraordinarily misleading.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Despite your desperate attempts to prop up your numbers. Your claim is 3 orders of magnitude off. Nothing you propose here alludes to that scope of error in what I said. You're grasping at straws. This is an international problem that would require the cooperation of all national governments to screw with the data to make it fit your narrative. Occam's Razor, the virus is deadly and there isn't a worldwide conspiracy to "scare people".
UhnahnuhmissHuhghmin
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Yeah, and your claim is based on the number of confirmed cases, which is magnitudes lower than the real number of cases.  The true mortality rate is not even close to 0.5%.  Even the CDC estimated it at 0.26% in June!  The CDC has exaggerated the COVID-19 numbers since the beginning and they still are.  The true mortality rate is far lower than 0.26%.  Your entire argument is a false equivalency.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y
I'll concede the numbers are probably off. But not by magnitudes. Especially not by 3 magnitudes as OP claims.

A point of confusion with what you said is you appear to be claiming there are far more cases of Covid-19 than reported. Am I reading you right? Often people are saying there are more false-positives due to the tests being imperfect which is the opposite of how I'm understanding your argument.
JeffreyRyan
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
The CDC just reduced the number of those "covid deaths" by over 94%. According to CDC stats the OP is correct. Your BS death rate is for known cases, the actual number of which no one can possibly know. However, population is known. For people living outside of nursing homes, the overall fatality rate is 0.004%. You are endangering humanity by perpetuating covid myths.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
People see something some rando person wrote on the internet and run with it. Here's an article debunking the 6% factoid on Forbes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/08/31/twitter-removes-claim-about-cdc-and-covid-19-coronavirus-deaths-that-trump-retweeted/#7cc18bd03178



You're seeing what you want to see so that you can politicize the issue by correlating unrelated things. Total population has nothing to do with fatality rate after being infected.

It would be like saying you only have 0.004% chance of dying when you are involved in an auto accident. How did you arrive at that figure? Let's divide the number of auto accidents into the entire population of the USA. So don't worry about seatbelts or airbags or even driving safely. Your odds of dying from a crash are so astronomically low let's all crash our cars just for fun!



We really need to double down on logic and critical thinking in schools if this is the product of our best effots.
JeffreyRyan
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
The data is directly from the CDC website. Who cares what Forbes and Twitter does.
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EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
JeffreyRyan
3 ups, 5y, 3 replies
I took this DIRECTLY from the CDC website, right now, you imbecile frog. It's already been posted here but you have your derangement blinders welded on. You just quoted "total deaths" Skippy. Their own site breaks it down in detail. Only in 6% of those was covid the only cause, and that was based on faulty test results and observation of generic flu-like symptoms. Barely anyone is dying from a common cold virus. You are too plain dumb to swim in this end of the gene pool. Go back to the shallows.
UhnahnuhmissHuhghmin
2 ups, 5y, 1 reply
He doesn't care about the truth.  He only cares about what is convenient to his pathetic political party's agenda.  He truly is a frog, but a very, very dumb one at that!
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Slow down and read my posts. I'm not sticking fast to the 5.7% It could be far lower. But it's not 0.003% like the moronic baseless claim of the OP. Understand I'm not the one digging in my heels. Reasonable people know that the actual numbers are unknown. But we can use studies, evidence and reason to determine a ballpark figure. Below RunawayTrain has posted publications indicating mortality of 1.4% or maybe even less than 1%. I can't argue with the evidence presented. But less than 1% doesn't give credence to 0.003% as proffered by the irresponsible and severely biased OP who won't budge.
kdawg
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
OP is referring to the total population of America, NOT the sub-population of those purportedly infected with COVID (which BTW is also an unknown number due to tests producing FALSE POSITIVES across the board).  So take 6% of all deaths reported, and divide that by the POPULATION OF AMERICA and see what number you come up with, and how many Americans will die.



PS:  There are many Americans that are testing positive FOR HAVING HAD COVID. As in, they don't have it now, but they HAD IT BEFORE and didn't even know it.  So the actual number of people that had COVID and recovered(and the symptoms were so mild they didn't even know) is also probably in the millions, just like during the Obama years when H1N1 got to 60M+ cases and we didn't shut down the country.



Ultimately less than 10,000 Americans in a population of 313M have died specifically due to COVID.  Of those 10,000, the average age is over 80.  Of all of the other 150K+ deaths, there are severe diseases like heart disease, cancer, etc, often layered on top of one another of people that were literally on their death beds already.  SCAMDEMIC.



If 10,000 people in a population of 313M die, with an average age of 80+, then yeah, it means if you are an average American you have a 99.9971% of getting through this "pandemic" with your life.



If you are 85 years old, have stage for cancer and emphysema, and heart disease, and are in a hospital in NYC, then yeah, your chances of getting COVID and dying are higher.  The kicker is, EVEN IF YOU GET COVID in this scenario, it doesn't mean it was the COVID that actually killed you.  So the whole thing is BS and people like you help to hide the truth.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y
Really, the entire population?
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EGOS
0 ups, 5y
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EGOS
0 ups, 5y
kdawg
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Wrong.  CDC just announced that only 6% of COVID deaths were ONLY COVID.  94% of all cases had "Comorbidities" with an average of 2.6 OTHER diseases at play, which they still exclusively included the deaths on COVID, which is inaccurate.  So if you had Stage IV Cancer, Heart Disease, Pneumonia, and COVID, they called it a COVID death even if you were about to die anyway.  When you strip all the other diseases away, only 6% of ALL cases ultimately were exclusively a COVID death.  SO SAYS THE CDC.



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0jk_25_NcxyjJcZmkVD1GCB0HCP3DtkxBumli_npYorndth8P2pZ_7dVo#Comorbidities
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
In American a large number of people have pre-existing diseases. If you removed all comorbidity from assessment then how would we track things like death from the flu every year? The answer is we would skew the numbers significantly and without good reason. We wouldn't have the data to analyze the efficacy of vaccines. Do you just want people to die because you don't know how medical science works?

You can die from a piano being dropped on your head and the piano was the cause whether or not your doctor gave you a week to live because of a terminal disease.
kdawg
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
I understand how medical science works - THIS IS POLITICAL.  The government has made a conscious choice in deciding to label EVERYTHING THEY CAN a COVID death to pump the numbers, even when they KNOW the death in question had nothing to do with COVID.  That is intellectually dishonest and medical tyranny defined, in the name of pushing this false narrative.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 2 replies
How many comorbidity deaths were people with hypertension? Are you going to make claim that a significant number of those people would have died of hypertension alone? I'm certain that number would dwarf any skydiving accidents unless we just had a rash of thousands of accidents this year.
kdawg
4 ups, 5y
Don't know but the average number of comorbidity was 2.6.....meaning there were 2 to 3 OTHER diseases at play.....AND the average age of the person was over 80.  So scaring the whole nation into submission about a disease that primarily is a concern for very sick, very old people, is a SCAM.
kdawg
4 ups, 5y
BTW, all of this - not even mentioning all the FALSE POSITIVES which further exacerbate and over state this disease.



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
kdawg
3 ups, 5y
https://www.outkick.com/cdc-just-6-of-covid-deaths-occurred-without-co-morbidities/
kdawg
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
The one spreading the false, scary, government numbers with no explanation - IS YOU.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y
I thought you guys liked government. I mean, you clearly are a blind follower of the system, so.
[deleted]
4 ups, 5y
kdawg
2 ups, 5y
kdawg
2 ups, 5y, 1 reply
So please stop spreading fake information unless you are seeking to have the liar Dr. Fauci hire you.  Then it makes more sense.
[deleted]
1 up, 5y
You have no bass for calling Fauci a liar. What, if trump blocks him on Twitter that means BOOM he’s a liar
[deleted]
3 ups, 5y, 3 replies
The survival rate drops to 85% in places where the lockdown has been poorly managed. Achieving a 98-99% survival rate is what we WANT. That's 13% of America we're trying to save - some 3 million lives.
kdawg
3 ups, 5y, 1 reply
Wrong.  CDC just announced that only 6% of COVID deaths were ONLY COVID.  94% of all cases had "Comorbidities" with an average of 2.6 OTHER diseases at play, which they still exclusively included the deaths on COVID, which is inaccurate.  So if you had Stage IV Cancer, Heart Disease, Pneumonia, and COVID, they called it a COVID death even if you were about to die anyway.  When you strip all the other diseases away, only 6% of ALL cases ultimately were exclusively a COVID death.  SO SAYS THE CDC.



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0jk_25_NcxyjJcZmkVD1GCB0HCP3DtkxBumli_npYorndth8P2pZ_7dVo#Comorbidities
UhnahnuhmissHuhghmin
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
antithesis cares even less for the truth than EGOS.  They are both egomaniacs who, when confronted with facts that prove them utterly wrong, continue to dig the hole they'd already been digging for themselves.  They're morons, but their ignorance is willful.
EGOS
0 ups, 5y
Aww, and you had the veneer of being reasonable in our other interactions.
JeffreyRyan
2 ups, 5y
No proof anywhere that lockdowns did anything positive. It's like the claim red wine is good for the heart. You want it to be true but too many factors in play to be able to say it with any confidence, especially when there are many cases which show otherwise.
kdawg
2 ups, 5y
https://www.outkick.com/cdc-just-6-of-covid-deaths-occurred-without-co-morbidities/
EGOS
0 ups, 5y, 1 reply
kdawg - You have given comorbidity more importance than it deserves here. I mentioned earlier that plenty of Americans have pre-existing conditions but it did gnaw at me that on average 2.6 comorbid conditions seemed rather high for it to be just that. Among the comorbid conditions are adult pneumonia, respiratory distress syndrome, respiratory failure, respiratory arrest, other diseases of the respiratory system, and sepsis.

As it turns out many of the comorbid conditions are brought on by the Covid-19 infection. Just like it's possible to catch flu then die of respiratory complications. But flu was unquestioningly the source of the cause of death.

So please take a moment and use your open mind to consider a possibility every thinker must face to remain honest. You could be interpreting the evidence wrong.
kdawg
0 ups, 5y
"You have given comorbidity more importance than it deserves here"



No, I haven't If someone is very old and on their death bed due to cancer AND heart disease, it's not correct to ASSUME that if they contracted COVID that COVID was 100% the cause of death, yet that's exactly how the hospitals are recording it AND they are being financially incentivized to do so.  That the 94% of the deaths being reported.  VERY VERY RELEVANT.
kdawg
0 ups, 5y
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The country should not remain closed in any way for a disease that has a 99.9971% survival rate