I say no. The Amendments to the US Constitution give me all kinds of rights, but I can't even talk about that!

No non-Imgflip owned stream is required to feature content they don't wish to feature or to follow their own stream rules. I get this complaint a lot about some of the streams run by kids since they will disapprove images because they don't like a certain person or the submission rubs them the wrong way or a number of other unknown reasons. I always tell them to submit to a stream that will allow their submissions and to not even bother with a stream that continuously treats them unfairly. For example when a conservative gets a submission rejected by the Globals in politics, I always invite them to submit it in my conservatives stream. I'm pretty sure AN0NYM0US and whistlelock do the same with those on the Left as well with PoliticsTOO. I also invite people who are disaffected by the modding in MEMES_OVERLOAD to come participate in Everyones_A_Mod which has resulted in more adults and bullied kids participating in EAM. It all comes down to the fact that stream owners and mods as well as Imgflip itself have free speech too and aren't required to give someone a platform if they don't want to.

i foresee great things for you.

Not to be pedantic but this is not the USA. It's a private website and the owner can impose any rules they want. If you yourself are in the US you can call on any part of the US constitution you want and say whatever you feel like saying. But the internet is not US territory. The US government doesn't run this meme site and has absolutely no power to enforce any of their laws here. The only law that has any meaning here are the TOS which you agreed to by using this site.

Good good. You shouldn't be pedantic. You're terrible at it ( :

Imgflip is a limited liability company, subject to the laws of the USA. The fact that it's privately owned and operated does not give the owners or the users the right to ignore US law. The TOS you refer to cannot legally be at odds with US law. If they are judged to be so at any time, they'd need to be adjusted to conform. Welcome to America! Please wipe your feet.

Well, maybe I oversimplified a bit there. But the owner can very well impose rules that censor what can be posted to this site. The TOS can't technically not allow things that are forbidden by US law, but it can forbid things that would be allowed by US law. It could, for example, ban the use of the Swastika even though that contradicts the right to free speech. Words like "p**is" get censored. Is that violating my freedom of speech? Kinda. But there are kids using this site who apparently shouldn't have to read this word according to the TOS and we all accept that.

i agree with all of that, however my meme that was declined (imgflip.com/i/48tyhv) and therefore sponsored this meme did not violate terms of service in any way, did not violate the rules of the stream i submitted it to (The_Think_Tank), and LOL had no swastikas or p**ises. it was a perfectly legitimate post that was declined because, says they, it dealt with coronavirus and as such was of a disagreeably political nature for The_Think_Tank. the meme actually dealt with the problem of how science has been disregarded in favor of politics, a problem that's plainly quite urgent. i think kids on the site would be basically ok with it.

I think I remember seeing a meme that they made a seperate stream for things like that and I guess they just want to keep things seperate. 🤔 Maybe try it in that stream and if it still doesn't get approved I am completely on your side. 😉

i already posted it elsewhere, but thanks!

I saw. 😉 And maybe his mistake was not being in a story where scientists are kept in high regards... 🤔 sad commentary on our world as a whole...

The Bill of Rights give citizens rights to the people and restrictions on government, not restrictions on free enterprise. This site is a business that can run how it wants and you accept their terms and conditions in exchange for use. So the rights you exercise against the government do not apply here. The government should only step in with regulation on free enterprise when there is a safety issue for workers or a gross exploitation of work force at large.

the Bill of Rights is part of the law of the land. businesses must abide by the law of the land. they are not little empires unto themselves, at least in legal matters. any rules or regulations created by a business must be consistent with all applicable laws. why would you think otherwise?

Then explain Farcebook and their Fact-checking. Things against their agenda and beliefs get check. And those things aren't wrong, they're just against their agenda. They'll but you in Farcebook Jail if you post want ya want more than they want you to.

well you may be right on that. i'm not staying up to date on their fact-checking activity tbh. if it's against Trump, of course, they probly just want to curb hate speech that violates the rights of other users. you have noticed, i guess, that some of the Trumpies try to use the Constitution as a shield to justify their misbehavior. so anyway i think that facebook thinks that hate speech is illegal, which it is. anyone who wants to take it to court and let a judge rule on it is welcome to.

Prove it.
And when all else fails, resort to insults. ✔

prove it if i care? i don't care ( :

that was not an insult, Slim. just a Carsonism. i got nothing against you at all. think youre a fine citizen.

You care enough to respond, and move into name calling instead of civil discussion. And when civil discussion is put forward that you don't care.
So, do you care or don't you?
You posted the question soliciting answers.
Then when you get one you don't agree with you don't care, seems counter intuitive.

"Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This only talks about restricting the government.
Not companies, people, or free enterprise.

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcript#toc-the-u-s-bill-of-rights-2

Here is my proof.
And you "not caring" just verifies you only feel that way and have no proof. So you get angry and move to name calling.
But yet civil discussion still follows.

Slim if you're trying to make me feel guilty about my meme, it's not gonna happen. the 'insult' was intended as teasing only. i wasn't angry then or at any point after, and i wasn't meaning to disrespect you.

as for not caring, you may have me there. the initial meme was created in a moment of righteous indignation when i was caring a little more. by the time i was replying to your comment, i was caring a lot less.

now, am i willing to go so far as to agree with you on the point in question? i see what you're saying about the intent of the wording of the First Amendment. but does that mean that companies, people, or free enterprise can impose whatever rules or regulations they like that do infringe on free speech? as long as the rules and regulations don't conflict with law, i suppose it does. i hate to lose an argument, but i concede on this one.

It's not removing freedom of speech as long as the user has a free platform to express their views, even if it's not on one particular stream. Some streams have rules, and the site has the terms of service. Jeffery's freedom of speech while protected is not without repercussions if he wants to post panty pics on a site with lots of kids checking out otherwise innocent memes. Has your freedom of speech been taken away?

Not taken away. Infringed. Jeff is a bag of cats. Don't confuse the point with side issues.

No attack meant here. Yeah Jeffery is an extreme example, but it was to make a point. I'm just saying, to veto means to shut down and that's not what this stream is about, I'm just trying to understand. I've read your other comments with Kate, etc, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture here. The redirected post is pretty political as it has to do with Fauci and his credibility, politics aren't allowed by stream rules, and it's a clear example of why covid memes are now discouraged from this particular stream. There are other streams that this subject would flourish in, but the OG think tank is really not intended for politics. Sorry if you're feeling stepped on, but I dont see wrongdoing outright. I also dont claim to have all the facts, so if theres a problem let me know and we can talk about it.

It seems I'm now being blocked from posting in any stream. Do you know why?

No stream at all? Try sending some test images to Think Tank, Everyones_A_Mod, and POLITICS_OVERLOAD so I can see if they will come in my Approval Queue.

thanks, but the block has been lifted.

Let me know if that happens again. Sounds like there could possibly be a glitch in the site.

sure.

No idea, that's an Andrew or Olympian question.

Sure. I see it as pretty simple as I'm a simple-thinking guy. The meme is not political at all. There's a big difference between politics, which I personally hate, and analysis of things that people make political. If we can't see that difference, we will never make progress on the wearing of masks, which I'm focused on as a matter of importance to daily function and survival. Its a problem that needs to be resolved. And doesn't the idea that there are some things we shouldn't analyze just seem anti-intellectual anyway? Like it or not, that is one of the big problems facing the world. It's only as political as we choose to make it. My meme is about solving the political aspect, not contributing to it.

I hear you. I agree, C19 is not political itself. However, people do unfortunately make it political as it is not only a national problem but international which means lots of government intervention, which means government criticism, which turns conversations political. I wish more people could actually look at things the way you are in a simple way, but they do not. Just look at any of the major news outlets, they all have front page stories about what Trump/Fauci did or didnt do and why they think it's wrong or right. Again, I hear you and actually agree with you, but I dont think the mob can completely disassociate the issue from politics. That makes this topic difficult to moderate in the think tank, which is why the topic is deflected to other streams now. Maybe as things calm down that can change...its (just as with this conversation) an ongoing subject of discussion.

thanks Thparky.

:)

It depends whether or not it violates stream rules or TOS

I don't think that mods should have that power. In the political section, it has one of the most pro-Trump anti-Biden memes on the internet, and I think that it's great to finally have a website who's algorithm doesn't censor pro-Trump content like Reddit, Twitter, or Youtube. Freedom of speech is very important, and where I live (Canada), you can be fined or Jailed for offensive speech. A comedian in the Just For Laughs festival (Montreal) was fines 82,000$ and sent to a human rights tribunal for telling a joke about a make a wish kid. This website isn't very big, so Imgflip doesn't have enough power to censor what content is on here, and that is refreshing.

A few things need to be taken in order bruddah.... The constitution of any nation ONLY grant freedom of speech (if they grant it at all) to make the government unable to sue you for your opinion, no matter how much it may undermine their rule. There are limitations, as opinions may not be racist for example. It does not grant the right to directly insult people, or to spread lies (as some people believe that is).

However, IMGFLIP is NOT run by the U.S. government, nor by a government of ANY nation at all. The staff members are not employees of the U.S. authorities, and if they are they are not working for IMGFLIP in that role. That being said any amendments or articles in any constitution, regardless of the nation we are speaking about, protecting your freedom of speech, do not bind the moderators to any obligations. In other words, bringing up the U.S. constitution is an act of total stupidity beyond limits. Period! End of story, goodbye, the end! Trying to sue IMGFLIP for infringing your freedom of speech is therefore based on the constitution a lost case by default.

The constitution is even against you in this matter, as the constitution also allows allows people to set up their own code of conduct and behavior on their domains. IMGFLIP is private property, and thus its staff is by liberties granted by the constitution allowed to set up their rules, and to decide what may be discussed here and what not. This is how a (competent) judge would evaluate this.

I hate to burst your bubble when it comes to the constitution, but you gotta face the facts on that one.

On private property forums, the will of the administration of that specific site is basically law. They do set limits in order to prevent flame wars and stuff. Also, most people I've heard defending their "freedom of speech" are technically clueless about what it means, so you should be careful when bringing that up.

Bottom line is though.... The constitution won't help you here... In fact, the constitution is on the side of the moderators... Sorry....

You should read the other comments before posting energetic attacks. I already conceded on this, except for the part where you called me stupid beyond limit. That's a violation of the TOS.

You should interpret a comment properly before considering things an attack. And no I didn't violate the TOS, I just called bringing that up stupidity. That is because I'm pretty much fed up with people hiding behind a (misinterpreted) constitution, and especially when it doesn't apply to the situation at hand, and I needed to make clear in the most powerful words possible that it was not a clever move, and I was speaking in a general sense, so not only behind behind a misinterpreted constitution but also behind a misinterpreted TOS.... I've been a moderator on stricter sites than IMGFLIP where I had to judge these kinds of comments every day, so don't dictate such rules to me... I think I know them better than you do.... Given my state of service on the internet... I have to....

Also your post on me is the pot calling the kettle black... You speak of vetoing freedom of speech and what are you now trying to do with me? Don't try to deny it, you did, every letter in your comment makes that clear, so if you try to deny that it would be either not clever or a deliberate attempt to get your right only confirming my point.

You brought up the constitution yourself, so prepare to get criticized by it, and if you came to terms with that already that it was a stupid thing to do, perhaps deleting your meme could have been a good idea. I don't need to take responsibility for what other commenters state or what you reply to them.

But fact remains that you first try to deny your bad by the constitution and now by the TOS, while neither of them applies at all...

What also goes, and I know that in my experience moderating and administrating many sites (predating imgflip even) that every time accusations towards the moderators is brought up like that, that in less than 2% of the cases the moderator was actually wrong. So that basically means that in 98% of the cases, the user making such claims towards moderators (and if my statement is against the TOS, so would your claim or implication about moderators be, so cool it) the user was in fact violating the TOS of that site... (btw... Don't forget I'm a moderator in this stream too, so your implication also attacks me... Not that I took it personally, but still).

Accept that I've set things right on you. Your reply clearly makes it look like I'm the bad guy now. I've only stated things the way they are. That you take them as an attack really shows your conscience is troubled over this matter. Oh well...

Good job taking responsibility for your mistake, mister mod.

I'd be impressed if I didn't know you were being cynical and sarcastic unwilling to acknowledge your error and are now trying to accuse me of your own faults. And trust me I was being lenient. I've seen sites that would ban you already for speaking like that to a staff member. I only hate that childish kind of moderation.

I've just stated things out... You took them as an insult in stead. You can't blame me for your own wish to take things up like that. That was your decision not mine. You sound like a teen being (rightfully) scolded by a teacher now daring to accuse the teacher of many things (mostly behind their backs.... Nice place, eh... the internet).

Perhaps I should copy your behavior... My sincerest apologies for doing my job the way I should have done it.

See how that sounds? Did I sound ridiculous? Well, remember, I only copied your attitude.

It's so easy to hide behind the freedom of speech... Only a few know what it means. Now also seeing that this was a response to our decision about your COVID-19 meme, I realize once more all I said was completely warranted... You refuse to see it that way, but frankly... I only care about my own faults... They are many, and I would admit them all, but none of them made in this case, so no point in bringing them up here, so I said it before, and I'll say it again... cool it!

I guess the COVID19 thing get everybody on edge eh?

i've submitted feedback on this exchange, JB, saying that i think you need some guidance. if they ban me from the site, then they do.

Oh, you are now trying to tell a trained reviewer about "feedback" and "guidance"?
You were giving neighter, you were merely blowing off steam because you didn't like what I told you.

Who's vetoing your freedom of speech? Certain streams have certain rules but I think there's a place for everyone to speak their mind in different areas of the site.

well you did, K_the_G. i submitted an inoffensive meme that did not break any rules of the site or the stream. my meme was also not only not interfering with anyone or anything, but it was on a topic that had proved very popular over the preceding few days (plenty of upvotes and many comments on my submissions). when a mod gets into the business of what topics or opinions are worthy, then they are interfering with free speech.

The covid meme was removed?

We have been discussing things backstage on this matter. Apparently Heaven has taken this the wrong turn (but then again, by judging what he just accuses me of, hmmmm, I guess he easily does that). TTT was (as far as I know) not set up to discuss politics, however one cannot deny that the entire worldwide response to COVID19 has become rather political. Polls already indicate a change based on this in the presidential elections to name something, but actually, due to the many impacts this has on society and economy, people world wide are either supporting or criticizing their local authorities, so it has nowadays gotten a very clear political nature. That's why the moderators agreed on it to get COVID19 out of TTT now to post it in streams more fit for political discussions. (Especially due to the political nature it begins to have the discussions can easily heath up). So no real veto of opinion, but rather just bringing a discussion to the place it belongs. If it was a real veto, the meme would be removed completely.

Of course, I said it before in my stand-alone comment. Freedom of opinion, as stated by the constitution, have no value at all on a site that is private property, and how opinions are therefore moderated lies solely in the discretion of the site owner, and not in the constitution. That would be different if IMGFLIP was property of the nation itself (but even then). What topics are worthy is one of the things moderation is about in general. Would a meme about knitting be fit in a stream about coffee? Just to name an extreme example, but you get the picture.

TTT is a stream moderated with care... With the tiniest doubt things are already discussed backstage...

I didn't think it should have been featured in the first place, as much as I hate it to say. I'm all for free speech but being civil and not involving politics are things that make it a pleasant stream. Not sure why Heaven's reacting in this manner. He posts in Politicstoo where I've never had a meme featured lol

You mean this complaint or the original meme? (I just want to make sure we understand one another). Of course, since I am a moderator in this stream, I must be careful in what I say about PoliticsTOO or any other stream.

Fun thing is that OlympianProduct and I had a political chat on IMGFLIP's slack channel, and let's say that OP is in most things the opposite of me when it comes to our political views, and even though we disagreed on about well, almost everything, we never went mad and kept on talking in a civil way, also in respect for each other opinion. So basically it is possible for a guy like me, oriented on a more progressive social-democrat view, and a conservative to have a good discussion even without agreeing, but still understanding each other's views (I must say, OP did give me some points to think about, and I guess I did the same to him). But overall political discission easily go out of hand... And COVID19 has become more and more a political issue rather than a medical issue. And trust me, I have a lot of bones to pick when it comes to how COVID19 is being dealt with, myself, however I don't think TTT is the channel for that.

Of course about the question if something should be featured or not, I hope you understand that I will always have to side with my fellow moderators when in public. And when it comes to if I can tolerate Heaven's attitude I must also take a neutral stand. One thing I can say in his defense though.... We are all tired of this entire COVID19 thing, and when we are tired of something, we can get a littlebit edgy. That will not change how I respond to Heaven, though.

I'm a moderator too, but just because I mention that about that stream, I don't let that affect how I mod here.

I meant the original one. It's too closely tied with a political issue.

That's what's good about the stream. You and I also differ on many political stances but why let that interfere with a good discussion? There's too much division out there already, and I say that as a political junkie.

I'm not fully sure about your political views... I mean, I see so many different political views passing by that I cannot remember of all users if they left, right, progressive, conservative, green, whatever, but I'll take your word for it you are in the "enemy" camp from my point of view ("enemy" in this case not meant in a bad way. so stay cool 😁). And indeed, the original meme was too closely tied to a political issue, and the meme was even directed to the political side of the COVID19 issue. And yeah, I too follow politics well... Of course, I follow the Dutch politics more than the U.S politics (given the country where I live that was obvious), but since the Dutch situation is very much influenced by the U.S. politics, I do follow the U.S. politics too...

Now OP also told me that politics is also a matter of how your parents raised you, and I must say, I mostly vote for the same parties my parents vote for or have voted for in the past in the Dutch elections and I doubt that's a coincidence, and so politics, especially since politics basically dictates your life, like it or not, does form a part of your identity and when your identity is hurt because of a different opinion... well, boom, some people can easily overreact. I gotta say, OP made a lot of sense to me there. Count to that that the COVID19 issue has taken its toll on all of us, making us edgy, plus the political consequences of that thing, and kaboom... It does explain a bit why political discussions go out of hand so easily... Unfortunately it does not tell how we can get people to be cool about that. :-(

I was there when the original meme was discussed backstage, although I was not the one who did cast the "final vote" what to do there (and I won't say in public who did). I do agree though that the meme was political, and that it should therefore be in a different stream. And that there was no kind of "veto" involved, and I also stand by that it was very unclever to bring up the constitution about freedom of speech. I've seen that one being brought up many times on forums whenever a moderator did delete something, and regardless if the moderator was right or wrong, the constitution basically never applies on an internet forum.

No meme of Heaven's was removed. MODS thought it best to keep covid related posts in TTT2 since it can turn political and is a contentious topic right now. Here's the post that was redirected. imgflip.com/i/48tyhv

That's funny, K_the_G. You spend several inches of commentary telling me not to take it personally, then in very un-mod-like fashion, you say I'm whining about your decision. Have some self-respect, kid. If you can't defend your decisions without attacking someone's character, you probably need to rethink your own.

apology accepted!

Lol. You can't help yourself. If your apology was sincere, you wouldn't be sorry for something I did. Your be sorry for something you did.

I'd also point out that a good apology shouldn't contain any lies. You did mean to attack my character. You said I was whining.

Lets just steer clear of one another for a while. The last thing we need is another source of stress.